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Light Aircraft Crash in Oxfordshire

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Light Aircraft Crash in Oxfordshire

Old 21st Jan 2017, 16:23
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I believe under SERA "booking out" is no longer mandatory - in my opinion this is stupid but there was thread running on this a while ago with some people banging on about rights!
Booking out has never been mandatory on a legislative basis.
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Old 21st Jan 2017, 17:50
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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Booking out has never been mandatory on a legislative basis.
Yes, it was!


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Old 21st Jan 2017, 19:16
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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Was this Dave Norris, one time of Bournemouth Flying Club.
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Old 21st Jan 2017, 20:43
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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flybymike

You need to look up what happened after the "Bentine" accident many years ago. There was a famous comedian - Michael Bentine - whose son went missing in a Piper Cub out of Blackbushe. The wreck wasn't found for a considerable time and the rules for booking out were tightened thereafter...
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Old 22nd Jan 2017, 09:00
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Club rules maybe but not legislation.
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Old 22nd Jan 2017, 09:29
  #86 (permalink)  

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A question for those who think that booking out has always been legally mandatory: How would a helicopter pilot departing from a farmer's field comply with such a requirement?
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Old 22nd Jan 2017, 09:33
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Hazy memory but wasn't the requirement for an airfield to maintain a movements book, rather than for a pilot to use it?
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Old 22nd Jan 2017, 09:36
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If you're going to "land away" you naturally tell someone at your Club what your intentions are - if only to ensure they don't declare you "missing" when you don't return after a reasonable time. In this situation, you're probably not asked whether you agree with "the plan" so you maintain a respectful (especially in this case) silence and hope for the best.
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Old 22nd Jan 2017, 09:40
  #89 (permalink)  
 
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Many years ago before I had my own strip I kept my plane at a local airfield, returning from a flight I was contfronted by a FI from the school next door who gave me a bollocking for not signing out. I asked him why he thought I was obligated to do so. He responded that if authorities ever showed up to investigate illegalities like drug smuggling he was obligated to turn over all movement records. I got the impression it was more to do with this particular guy wanting to boss people around than a legal obligation he or I had to log all my movements. I politley explaned that if I was indeed planning on doing a bit smuggling he'd be the last person I'd share my plans with. Never heard any more from him.
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Old 22nd Jan 2017, 09:44
  #90 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by Arfur Dent
If you're going to "land away" you naturally tell someone at your Club what your intentions are - if only to ensure they don't declare you "missing" when you don't return after a reasonable time. In this situation, you're probably not asked whether you agree with "the plan" so you maintain a respectful (especially in this case) silence and hope for the best.
Arfur, Obviously it makes total sense for SAR purposes but that's not the same as a legal requirement.
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Old 22nd Jan 2017, 11:13
  #91 (permalink)  
 
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Chalgrove as a destination

Being at the bottom of the Chinnor Ridge, Chalgrove airfield used to be handy if your glider was too low to make it back to Booker. During the week we used to warn beginners to look out for Martin Baker's testing of ejector seats.
If you landed there on the weekend, there was no way out because nobody was looking after it! and surrounded with very high strong wire fence and locked gates. Our only way out was to phone for an airtow which meant nobody left on the ground to run with the wingtip, but we managed. Didn't have to worry about other traffic. Martin Baker didn't seem bothered.

Apparently they are planning to sell off some of the land for housing.
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Old 22nd Jan 2017, 11:23
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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A question for those who think that booking out has always been legally mandatory: How would a helicopter pilot departing from a farmer's field comply with such a requirement?
Or a fixed wing aircraft from a private strip.

Who are you going to tell? Where are you intending to go? Have you even made up your mind where you are going when you took off? Who cares anyway?
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Old 22nd Jan 2017, 11:28
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flybymike

You need to look up what happened after the "Bentine" accident many years ago. There was a famous comedian - Michael Bentine - whose son went missing in a Piper Cub out of Blackbushe. The wreck wasn't found for a considerable time and the rules for booking out were tightened thereafter...
The whole world is familiar with the Bentine incident, but there has still never been a legislative requirement to book out.
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Old 22nd Jan 2017, 14:37
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The whole world is familiar with the Bentine incident, but there has still never been a legislative requirement to book out.
You can hardly expect younger people to know about Bentine. What is it about the ANO and RoA (as were) as quoted by LookingForAJob that you interpret as "never been a legislative requirement"?!


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Old 22nd Jan 2017, 15:23
  #95 (permalink)  
 
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Booking out by phone prior to flight is often a requirement at larger ATC-equipped airfields. At smaller GA fields the booking out provision - that several people here have identified in what used to be Rule 17(2) of the Rules of the Air - is normally done over the radio. I'm not overly familiar with AFISO procedures but certainly at Air-to-Ground airfields there's no requirement for the Radio Operator to log any of the information passed by pilots. So in the context of this accident I don't think there's any relevance to what the pilot may or may not have told Turweston before departing.
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Old 22nd Jan 2017, 15:49
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2sheds.
The section highlighted in bold by LFAJ may be achieved over the radio before take off or arrival, without any formal "booking out" procedure. Many pilots bimble aimlessly with no specific destination or time en route in mind.

Thousands of flights take place to and from private strips or airfields where there may not even be a radio operator never mind any formal logging procedure.
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Old 22nd Jan 2017, 16:51
  #97 (permalink)  
 
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The requirement only means that the airfield operator (if there is one) ha a log of arrivals and departures. The origin of the arrival, and destination of departure information is customary, but not a legal requirement under Rule 17 (2).
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Old 22nd Jan 2017, 17:41
  #98 (permalink)  
 
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Show us the legislation please.
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Old 22nd Jan 2017, 18:57
  #99 (permalink)  

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LFAJ,

It's impossible to "book in", or out if there is no book and no-one to keep one.

However, as far as helicopter landings go, the UK CAA do require an operator to keep a record of helicopter landings carried out under a written permission to be exempted from the 1,000 foot rule given by (sorry, purchased from) them with regard to a particular landing site in a congested area.
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Old 22nd Jan 2017, 23:27
  #100 (permalink)  
 
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From CAP 694 "The UK Flight Planning Guide":-

Booking Out
Rule 17 of the Rules of the Air Regulations 2007 requires a pilot intending to make a flight to inform the Air Traffic Service Unit (ATSU) at the aerodrome of departure, an action known as "Booking Out". Filing an FPL constitutes compliance with this Rule. The action of "Booking Out", however, does not involve flight details being transmitted to any other ATSU.
Chapter 1 Page 4 para 5

Ok this Rule no longer applies but this seems to confirm there was a requirement to book out.
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