Norwegian B737 Pilot selection (Updated)
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Having reviewed my "posting history" on NAS threads. . . .
Before I joined NAS (as a Contractor ) I asked why your Union were allowing "divide & conquer". . at this stage it was the ARPI HEL contract under discussion. When the 3 year (Ha Ha
) deal came up, I asked again, what was your Union doing. When I chose to apply, I asked, why shouldn't I accept what was (at THAT time) a good contract position if your Union were allowing it to happen, I have to eat too, & if it wasn't me it would be Capt A.N.Other.
Back in Spring this year NPF had Bjorn Kjos by the cojones. There were 6 ? 10 ? aircraft on wet-lease, no-one was working days off, it was approaching Spring. . .the best time to win a dispute (not like December) but, inexplicably, rather than squeezing a little harder, NPF let go.
Contractors spent Summer flying core production. . . . in return ? 40 core vacancies created and an agreement that 2 years after a new base was established pilots would be offered a "permanent position". I guess the Union imagined this would increase the number of pilots in your group.
Surprise surprise, the "permanent position" is a 2 year contract through 3 of the 4 already incumbent agencies, the only difference being that the contractors must pay tax & social charges at "home base" to make NAS look like Snow White in the eyes of the puritanical Norwegian public.
So yes, I do ask "where are the Union" ? even if I am not a member, as it was they (not me) who negotiated this 2yr /permanent employment deal. I was neither asked/consulted if this was what I wanted, so, I ask them. . .what happened to YOUR deal.
As I have often said, with no Union representation/protection what exactly did you permanent guys expect of us contractors ? any action by us = contract terminated with 1 mth notice.
I have the distinct impression (reinforced by Swedish colleagues who were "taken over" by NAS whilst working for a previous company) that NPF is somewhat fixated on protecting K agreement pilots, without perhaps paying too much attention to the bigger picture. Apart from 1 meeting in HEL back in Summer, & a half-hearted offer to meet with anybody interested to put their heads above the parapet & become a psuedo Union rep ( scheduled I believe for around now,) there has been little real interest shown in trying to get us in "the fold". 11 mths have passed since the current Contractor recruitment.
We have been fed tales (taken with a bit of a pinch of salt) by NAS that having to be present on passive flts etc etc has been at the behest of the Union. Most of us can see "the game" well enough to treat these claims with suspicion, but, nonetheless the Union has not been very pro-active in trying to get us on board. The attitude appears to have been "bid for K agreement positions, until then Good Luck " .
It is indeed very dissapointing to find the "nicey-nicey/touchy-feely" attitude shown in the beginning was just a cloak concealing a North European Ryanair wannabee. Perhaps with so many ex Ryanair pilot managers I should be less than surprised by this, a shame really. . I expected better.
I don't feel I owe anyone an apology, I have always stated my position very clearly & truly wondered WTF your Union have been doing throughout all of this. This has not been my fight to fight, nor have I contributed to your Unions failure to fight hard enough, when there were plenty up for the fight.
If I was paying Union dues I may be asking for an explanation (in lieu of an apology) of exactly why things have "progressed" (sorry that should be "regressed" ) as they have since the appalling ARPI contract started in March 2011. . . . . that was probably the beginning of the ongoing end.
You possibly don't see me as on "the same side" any clearer than I see any interest in our "situation" by NPF. . . we should both remember, we are actually in the same team & be mindful of who the opponents are. . . not you, nor me.
NAS long-haul (in which NPF have no say) has already reared its head in HEL,
how long before HEL/AGP/LPA/LGW/ALC/ ??? are taken out of the equation.
This is happening like a car-crash in slow motion, if I was paying Union dues I would be asking some fairly leading Questions to ascertain what was being done to stop the runaway train. 70 (?) more core vacancies in April to add to the 40 in June are all well & good, but how many contractors have been taken in the last 20 mths . . . . . must be close to 200 ?
Having reviewed my "posting history" on NAS threads. . . .
Before I joined NAS (as a Contractor ) I asked why your Union were allowing "divide & conquer". . at this stage it was the ARPI HEL contract under discussion. When the 3 year (Ha Ha
) deal came up, I asked again, what was your Union doing. When I chose to apply, I asked, why shouldn't I accept what was (at THAT time) a good contract position if your Union were allowing it to happen, I have to eat too, & if it wasn't me it would be Capt A.N.Other.Back in Spring this year NPF had Bjorn Kjos by the cojones. There were 6 ? 10 ? aircraft on wet-lease, no-one was working days off, it was approaching Spring. . .the best time to win a dispute (not like December) but, inexplicably, rather than squeezing a little harder, NPF let go.
Contractors spent Summer flying core production. . . . in return ? 40 core vacancies created and an agreement that 2 years after a new base was established pilots would be offered a "permanent position". I guess the Union imagined this would increase the number of pilots in your group.
Surprise surprise, the "permanent position" is a 2 year contract through 3 of the 4 already incumbent agencies, the only difference being that the contractors must pay tax & social charges at "home base" to make NAS look like Snow White in the eyes of the puritanical Norwegian public.
So yes, I do ask "where are the Union" ? even if I am not a member, as it was they (not me) who negotiated this 2yr /permanent employment deal. I was neither asked/consulted if this was what I wanted, so, I ask them. . .what happened to YOUR deal.
As I have often said, with no Union representation/protection what exactly did you permanent guys expect of us contractors ? any action by us = contract terminated with 1 mth notice.
I have the distinct impression (reinforced by Swedish colleagues who were "taken over" by NAS whilst working for a previous company) that NPF is somewhat fixated on protecting K agreement pilots, without perhaps paying too much attention to the bigger picture. Apart from 1 meeting in HEL back in Summer, & a half-hearted offer to meet with anybody interested to put their heads above the parapet & become a psuedo Union rep ( scheduled I believe for around now,) there has been little real interest shown in trying to get us in "the fold". 11 mths have passed since the current Contractor recruitment.
We have been fed tales (taken with a bit of a pinch of salt) by NAS that having to be present on passive flts etc etc has been at the behest of the Union. Most of us can see "the game" well enough to treat these claims with suspicion, but, nonetheless the Union has not been very pro-active in trying to get us on board. The attitude appears to have been "bid for K agreement positions, until then Good Luck " .
It is indeed very dissapointing to find the "nicey-nicey/touchy-feely" attitude shown in the beginning was just a cloak concealing a North European Ryanair wannabee. Perhaps with so many ex Ryanair pilot managers I should be less than surprised by this, a shame really. . I expected better.
I don't feel I owe anyone an apology, I have always stated my position very clearly & truly wondered WTF your Union have been doing throughout all of this. This has not been my fight to fight, nor have I contributed to your Unions failure to fight hard enough, when there were plenty up for the fight.
If I was paying Union dues I may be asking for an explanation (in lieu of an apology) of exactly why things have "progressed" (sorry that should be "regressed" ) as they have since the appalling ARPI contract started in March 2011. . . . . that was probably the beginning of the ongoing end.
You possibly don't see me as on "the same side" any clearer than I see any interest in our "situation" by NPF. . . we should both remember, we are actually in the same team & be mindful of who the opponents are. . . not you, nor me.
NAS long-haul (in which NPF have no say) has already reared its head in HEL,
how long before HEL/AGP/LPA/LGW/ALC/ ??? are taken out of the equation.
This is happening like a car-crash in slow motion, if I was paying Union dues I would be asking some fairly leading Questions to ascertain what was being done to stop the runaway train. 70 (?) more core vacancies in April to add to the 40 in June are all well & good, but how many contractors have been taken in the last 20 mths . . . . . must be close to 200 ?
I'm not a DY pilot. Went for it, offered a job, turned it down. Was promised things like 5/4 but then the contract said a minimum of 8 days off per month. That's not 5/4! It's now a random roster....
I was promised a full time permanent job after the fixed term was up and DY were still recruiting. That is the case today but the base is still a fixed term one.
Other promises were made that if you like I will go into later or as a pm.
My point is this. As a fellow former certain LCC pilot I could spot the bull**** coming from the management. The promises, etc. I chose to walk away.
My post above is meant from the point of view of with your experience of Ryanair, you should have known better. And if you then chose to go with it, to then change your tune when your own T&C's changed is a bit spoilt.
And all while not paying your subs?
I was promised a full time permanent job after the fixed term was up and DY were still recruiting. That is the case today but the base is still a fixed term one.
Other promises were made that if you like I will go into later or as a pm.
My point is this. As a fellow former certain LCC pilot I could spot the bull**** coming from the management. The promises, etc. I chose to walk away.
My post above is meant from the point of view of with your experience of Ryanair, you should have known better. And if you then chose to go with it, to then change your tune when your own T&C's changed is a bit spoilt.
And all while not paying your subs?
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Yep, certainly partly guilty as charged with reference to rose (red nosed) tinted specs. I think I foolishly half believed these guys "might" have been a slightly better class of LoCo . . . . looking increasingly like the rot is setting in quicker than anyone could have anticipated.
Most of us enquired about Union membership, and were told as we were not governed by the K agreement , we couldn't be bona fida members & could only sign up for associate membership, the sole benefit of which was a magazine /newsletter in Norwegian
Subsequent (possible) implication of NPF in Crewings inability to show their previous flexibility vis a vis positioning etc, has left most of my fellow contractors somewhat ambivalent/suspicious of exactly where we sit in the NPF's grand scheme of things, but. . .as I said, they negotiated this 2yrs then permanent deal (no doubt with one eye on securing/increasing their own influence on future events) with (perhaps) something for us as a handy byproduct, so I was merely questioning whether NAS were interpreting it the way NPF wanted (to which I guess the short answer is no)
I am most certainly not anti-Union (experience of Ryanair has shown me the result of the alternative) but neither am I blind to how they have in the past handled mergers /redundancies etc. . both in NAS & Europe wide in other cases. As a Contractor it appeared there was very little they could offer me, so why am I going to spend the money until that situation is resolved ? Incidentally, all the guys who took the crummy ARPI contract in HEL (I guess the one you didn't take) managed to get core positions back in June (including a couple of line trainers who swapped seats for the core contract) so, it would have worked out for you in the end, but no-one could have foretold/promised that with any conviction 18-21 mths ago.
Most of us enquired about Union membership, and were told as we were not governed by the K agreement , we couldn't be bona fida members & could only sign up for associate membership, the sole benefit of which was a magazine /newsletter in Norwegian
Subsequent (possible) implication of NPF in Crewings inability to show their previous flexibility vis a vis positioning etc, has left most of my fellow contractors somewhat ambivalent/suspicious of exactly where we sit in the NPF's grand scheme of things, but. . .as I said, they negotiated this 2yrs then permanent deal (no doubt with one eye on securing/increasing their own influence on future events) with (perhaps) something for us as a handy byproduct, so I was merely questioning whether NAS were interpreting it the way NPF wanted (to which I guess the short answer is no)
I am most certainly not anti-Union (experience of Ryanair has shown me the result of the alternative) but neither am I blind to how they have in the past handled mergers /redundancies etc. . both in NAS & Europe wide in other cases. As a Contractor it appeared there was very little they could offer me, so why am I going to spend the money until that situation is resolved ? Incidentally, all the guys who took the crummy ARPI contract in HEL (I guess the one you didn't take) managed to get core positions back in June (including a couple of line trainers who swapped seats for the core contract) so, it would have worked out for you in the end, but no-one could have foretold/promised that with any conviction 18-21 mths ago.
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Sorry Playstation but I started this thread to know something about the recruitment in Norwegian, if they are still calling, if they stopped, if they hire only good looking captains and ugly first officers ecc. because there are many pilots without job and others (like me) going to loose it in short time.
What you are talking about is interesting, but not what many of us are looking for in this thread. You can certainly discuss Union affairs in other threads.
So, what's the recruitment situation in Norwegian?
What you are talking about is interesting, but not what many of us are looking for in this thread. You can certainly discuss Union affairs in other threads.
So, what's the recruitment situation in Norwegian?
Last edited by Breakthesilence; 13th Dec 2012 at 10:42.
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As far as I know still ongoing.
B787, still seem to be struggling a bit to attract"suitable" candidates.
AFAIK 737 selection on-going, know of a few FO's starting soon, believe screening full for the moment, but I would assume ongoing as there is a rumour that 8 of next years planned new airframes will be delivered by APR
(I see a few new ones registered already) so, it seems they want to take perhaps more than the original 11/12 ? planned for 2013.
Cadets/SSTR don't really know, best check the website.
B787, still seem to be struggling a bit to attract"suitable" candidates.
AFAIK 737 selection on-going, know of a few FO's starting soon, believe screening full for the moment, but I would assume ongoing as there is a rumour that 8 of next years planned new airframes will be delivered by APR
(I see a few new ones registered already) so, it seems they want to take perhaps more than the original 11/12 ? planned for 2013.
Cadets/SSTR don't really know, best check the website.
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Kudos to Playstation 
A man is allowed to change his mind as opinion, and this sometimes happens due to experience. Being man enough to tell the tales is refreshing to hear!
A man is allowed to change his mind as opinion, and this sometimes happens due to experience. Being man enough to tell the tales is refreshing to hear!
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Simple answer.. Yes they are still interviewing LHS positions, three of my friends have interviews this week. All are currently flying 738 and have 1000 hrs PIC on type or more. From what I have been told, NAS has many applicants and at the moment are interviewing currently flying guys. PS none of these guys want LGW base..
Last edited by Kirks gusset; 3rd Jan 2013 at 14:19.
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NAS recruitment
I'm a recent joiner with only Classic experience.
My observations so far are:
1. Recruitment was somewhat chaotic. Like many I had no acknowledgement to my application and it took a 'recommend' from a former colleague to set the process in motion.
2. Selection for interview is done by one person who is over whelmed with applications. My former colleague took a risk and phoned the recruiter directly. Faint hearts etc etc
3. The Company has grown significantly over the last couple of years but the admin dept hasn't. Thus admin isn't an instantaneous process - it takes time.
4. Selection for DEC is by interview and sim check. Interview makes sure you're going to fit in with their CRM model and have the experience to deal with some fairly testing routes and airfields. Sim check is fairly standard raw data ILS, EFATO, SE ILS, SE G/A, SE landing.
5. Lots of new aircraft arriving - 13 B738's this year, a few B733's going back the other way.
6. The people are nice to work for, nothing seems to be too much trouble and so far I've got what I wanted in terms of vacation. Trainers are professional but relaxed.
7. The original contract gave me approx the same salary as I was receiving in my previous company. We then received an unexpected uplift to the contract of 17 Euros per block hour. No pension, no loss of licence, no BUPA, etc etc
8. LGW opens this Spring so it appears I can stay in the UK.
9. Whilst its not perfect I am quite happy with my lot. Ask me again in a year when I know a bit more.
10. First airline I've worked for that's made a big profit and is expanding.
My observations so far are:
1. Recruitment was somewhat chaotic. Like many I had no acknowledgement to my application and it took a 'recommend' from a former colleague to set the process in motion.
2. Selection for interview is done by one person who is over whelmed with applications. My former colleague took a risk and phoned the recruiter directly. Faint hearts etc etc
3. The Company has grown significantly over the last couple of years but the admin dept hasn't. Thus admin isn't an instantaneous process - it takes time.
4. Selection for DEC is by interview and sim check. Interview makes sure you're going to fit in with their CRM model and have the experience to deal with some fairly testing routes and airfields. Sim check is fairly standard raw data ILS, EFATO, SE ILS, SE G/A, SE landing.
5. Lots of new aircraft arriving - 13 B738's this year, a few B733's going back the other way.
6. The people are nice to work for, nothing seems to be too much trouble and so far I've got what I wanted in terms of vacation. Trainers are professional but relaxed.
7. The original contract gave me approx the same salary as I was receiving in my previous company. We then received an unexpected uplift to the contract of 17 Euros per block hour. No pension, no loss of licence, no BUPA, etc etc
8. LGW opens this Spring so it appears I can stay in the UK.
9. Whilst its not perfect I am quite happy with my lot. Ask me again in a year when I know a bit more.
10. First airline I've worked for that's made a big profit and is expanding.
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In general I would 100% endorse lookers comments.
Norwegian's in flight mag quotes the CE0 as 14 new 738 plus 3 787 for delivery in 2013 with at least half the 738 being delivered before the end of March, current fleet is 69 737 including around 10 733's which maybe staying a little longer.
The people are great and very helpful but your not wet nursed, they treat you like adults and ask only that you act so.
If your rated (CL or NG) then expect around 12 days ground school plus another 3 if doing the extended Winter ops course, 1 day SOP procedure's in mock up followed 3 days of sim plus a further day for PC check and another two days sim if doing the winter ops course.
After that its 4 sectors (min) jump seat followed by 40 sectors (min) line training plus additional jump seat and training for winter ops pilots
All HOTAC including breakfast and weekends is paid for by Norwegian during ground school plus a diem payment, after ground school complete your on basic salary when line training starts your additional allowance and block hour payments kick in.
They have taken around 25 ex bmi pilots and the rest seem mainly northern european pilots with a few Spanish thrown in.
So excellent training, nice people, good package, very interesting flying!! and new 738's and they've gone for the Ghia version, full EFB, Wifi, sky interior,pax drop down IFE and short field performance kit.
Form a queue at Fornabu
Norwegian's in flight mag quotes the CE0 as 14 new 738 plus 3 787 for delivery in 2013 with at least half the 738 being delivered before the end of March, current fleet is 69 737 including around 10 733's which maybe staying a little longer.
The people are great and very helpful but your not wet nursed, they treat you like adults and ask only that you act so.
If your rated (CL or NG) then expect around 12 days ground school plus another 3 if doing the extended Winter ops course, 1 day SOP procedure's in mock up followed 3 days of sim plus a further day for PC check and another two days sim if doing the winter ops course.
After that its 4 sectors (min) jump seat followed by 40 sectors (min) line training plus additional jump seat and training for winter ops pilots
All HOTAC including breakfast and weekends is paid for by Norwegian during ground school plus a diem payment, after ground school complete your on basic salary when line training starts your additional allowance and block hour payments kick in.
They have taken around 25 ex bmi pilots and the rest seem mainly northern european pilots with a few Spanish thrown in.
So excellent training, nice people, good package, very interesting flying!! and new 738's and they've gone for the Ghia version, full EFB, Wifi, sky interior,pax drop down IFE and short field performance kit.
Form a queue at Fornabu
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The man is trying to warn you but you would rather stick your head in the sand, is that what you're saying?
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The man is trying to warn you but you would rather stick your head in the sand, is that what you're saying?
What does it mean? Do I have to stop the discussion about the recruitment because there are negative points about NAS? Captplaystation has been very kind to not complain and gives an answer to the question.