Terms and EndearmentThe forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.
AdM, we met at OAA the other day and you either felt sorry for me or didn't want confrontation but you did not say any of that to my face.
In my defence - I failed the BA selection, not enough hours for EK, I've been on flexicrew for over 2 years, my first year I flew 900 hours, this year I have flown 700, which is a DECREASE in pay. Merlin hasn't produced anything at all. My circumstances mean I want to stay in the UK for the forseeable future.
For me going to Monarch is not a backwards step. I have 1800 hours, at eJ I am still an FO (not really an issue) getting paid by the hour. At Monarch I am now an SFO, on £48000 basic plus flight pay. During my groundschool with Monarch I got paid allowances - not at eJ. My uniform has just turned up - paid for by Monarch. It may be a longer time to command than eJ but their expansion plans are looking at an extra 8, possibly 18 aircraft over the next 3 or 4 years. Rumours are another 100 FO's over the next year. There is the oppurtunity of long haul (at the moment anyway), which appeals and with those expansion plans the time to command won't be that long. Even if it's 7 or 8 years it's still less than BA. Do you think that easyJet are going to keep expanding? I don't think there will be much more - everything will slow down then, and guess what - flexicrew commands, think it won't happen? Rose tinted specs.
20 year captain is on £117k plus flight pay - almost as much as you! TC's earn another £25k on top of that. Base trainers another £10k. What is so good at eJ that would keep me there?
As someone who has worked for both having done 3 years at easy before moving to Monarch at the beginning of last year, I can honestly say (in my opinion) Monarch is by far the better airline to work for. Comparable pay, better rostering, better pension, human management, guaranteed summer leave, better scheduling agreement, V.Strong BALPA representation to name but a few reasons.
I flew with some excellent guys at easy, but found the morale to be generally quite poor and fatigue was definately an issue. At Monarch we are working hard at the moment, but much of this is voluntary and is well rewarded. Even with this I am nothing near as tired after a working week as I was at easy.
I also have it on decent authority from people a lot more in the know than myself or some of the other speculators on here that Monarch's future is quite rosy, all the cost saving targets have been met and Airframes increasing by 20% next year (rumour has it they're even brand new A/C). 3 new bases and a number of new routes.
Please will Monarch take some of our cadets and flexicrew as I am tired of listening to some of them them whine on about ( in no particular order )
1.How life is so unfair as they deserve a permanent contract.
2. How they cannot afford to live on the money
3. How they are not getting enough flying
4. How they cannot maintain proficiency with the amount of flying they do.
That is despite some signing on to the very terms and conditions that enable easyJet to use and abuse them. Some not bothering to get their heads in the books to read their way around the aircraft. Some having a lack of awareness and no will to get the job done ( much preferring to pose in cheap sunglasses and pontificate with their other newbies or infront of the cabin crew)
rant over
P.S Not all are like this but the vast majority are arrogant self centred mummies boys and girls.
Please tell me that this is a chance for all of us who are rotting away in turboprops in the places where Monarch have bases, and equally the bmiBaby guys and girls and not a total and utter jump across from Orange land...
The Orange Army have helped contribute to a large T&C drop across the whole industry - sadly unchallenged. They are not the only cause, but they are in there. It would be nice to think that those of us who have been stuck on turboprops for as long as can be remembered, will finally get some recognition.
Here's to hoping, however, my cynical side says "The Orange Army paid once, they've already shown that they are the cheaper option".
Good luck to the turboprop and Baby guys. I hope you all get it...
1. Compete against easyjet at LGW, MAN and LTN - our 3 biggest UK bases, where they have lesser economies of scale, higher crew costs, less diversification (business/leisure route mix), older, more fuel hungry, more maintainance hungry aircraft and a lesser known brand.
2. Take up routes/ slots that previously failed for an airline that had the backing of one of the biggest most successful airlines in the world and couldn't be given away.
3. Monarch as a brand could never enter the lucrative business market so they are expanding on high risk leisure routes which have a more target rich focus.
So all the altruism, great blokes, lack of complaints, lack of tiredness and wonderful union representation in the world isn't going to prevent the inevitable. I've said it before and I'll say it again, raise your chin and look ahead.
Last edited by BlackandBrown; 9th Jun 2012 at 09:46.
Was it? Do you have a reference? Or was it someone on PPRuNe? Many on PPRuNe are very wrong! And if you agreed with it, look how wrong you were too. Easyjet has an unbiased, multinational, simple brand. Monarch is a chintzy jack of all trades stuck in the 70s.
Here's a question, what happens when the old guy dies?
The "old guy's" son has already taken over and they don't have to go cap in hand to the bank for a loan or worry about public perception affecting share prices, they have the funds to fuel their train set and seem happy to do so. Huge investment in the future to drag the operation out the 70's as you say. Not a short term act.
I think the word 'clueless' springs to mind when I read your last few posts. Whilst it may be the oldest surviving original named charter airline, and may still be somewhat of a gentlemans club when it comes to flying, underestimate this Company at your peril. You have no idea who's behind it and what incentives there are to ensure it remains in business.
When the old man dies, a new godfather takes over and the firm keeps going. Simple!
Stuck in the 70's? Yes part of it is, you're actually correct here. They've been around a long time doing what they do best. No rapid expansion or taking risky gambles. It seems to have worked for nearly 45 years.
Now...lets look at a few of the massive low cost airlines in the world with huge fleets operating for very small margins and how the effect of a rise in oil price could have on their sustainability?
Funny how that 'unbiased, multinational, simple' brand is completely different from the Easyjet of a decade ago! Don't believe us? Why not try watching some daytime TV reruns of 'Airline' to see what the orange cult used to be. Leopards do change their spots.
B&B, thank god you're stuck at EZY because it means I'll never have to waste my life meeting you.
To anyone thinking of applying to Monarch, please do so. A fantastic airline to work for and I'd recommend it any day. The facts stated on this thread about life at Mon are entirely correct and you'll never look back!
What's more you won't have to fork out for a rating!
Good luck.
Last edited by Devils Martini; 9th Jun 2012 at 21:38.
Rather a lot of experienced Monarch FOs' came over to the orange side to get commands.
I would suggest most aiming to leave the orange bunch for Monarch are low hour dreamers hoping for a miracle. Monarch will provide a temporary home for a few mercenary types until they have the hours for the middle east carriers. No loyalty or integrity amongst some of the flexicrew and cadet ranks.
Monarch cannot compete with the Locos' on price , convenience , cost base , market exposure and finally economy of scale.
They are a good little " momma and pappa " type of niche business which will bumble along nicely as long as they do not try to take on the multi nationals. I fear they might gain market share in the short run but it will be at the expense of earnings per seat and will not be cost effective in the medium term.
Last edited by Robert G Mugabe; 10th Jun 2012 at 00:41.
