Coronavirus- Rostering and Seating Issues
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Esher, Surrey U.K.
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Coronavirus- Rostering and Seating Issues
Coronavirus has created a new problem for airlines to manage:
It seems to me that there could now be at least 6 groups of passengers and crew sharing the air in the confined space of an aircraft.
It is important to distinguish these Groups when seating passengers and rostering crew.
Group A
Persons who have had Coronavirus and who are no longer infectious.
Group B
Persons who have had Coronavirus asymptomatically without realising they had it and who are no longer infectious.
Group C
Persons who currently have Coronavirus asymptomatically and genuinely do not know it but who could infect the people around them.
Group D
Persons who have not yet had Coronavirus and who could become infected with potentially fatal consequences.
Group E
Persons who think they have had Coronavirus because they suffered from Influenza or a similar condition during the Coronavirus pandemic but do not have Coronavirus. They too could become infected
Group F
Persons who are currently suffering from Coronavirus and suspect they are suffering from it but, for different reasons, do not care about infecting others.
This raises some interesting questions:
For example: Should you roster a Group E captain with a Group C first officer?
One problem is that Group E and F persons will probably declare themselves to be in Group A. Another problem is that Group B persons will think are Group C persons.
How do you seat these different groups of passengers?
Do you allow 2 meter spacing ?
Does it matter if you do not know for certain who is in which group?
No doubt the airlines will have robust and carefully designed plans to manage these issues before they resume their flying programmes.
Discuss.
It seems to me that there could now be at least 6 groups of passengers and crew sharing the air in the confined space of an aircraft.
It is important to distinguish these Groups when seating passengers and rostering crew.
Group A
Persons who have had Coronavirus and who are no longer infectious.
Group B
Persons who have had Coronavirus asymptomatically without realising they had it and who are no longer infectious.
Group C
Persons who currently have Coronavirus asymptomatically and genuinely do not know it but who could infect the people around them.
Group D
Persons who have not yet had Coronavirus and who could become infected with potentially fatal consequences.
Group E
Persons who think they have had Coronavirus because they suffered from Influenza or a similar condition during the Coronavirus pandemic but do not have Coronavirus. They too could become infected
Group F
Persons who are currently suffering from Coronavirus and suspect they are suffering from it but, for different reasons, do not care about infecting others.
This raises some interesting questions:
For example: Should you roster a Group E captain with a Group C first officer?
One problem is that Group E and F persons will probably declare themselves to be in Group A. Another problem is that Group B persons will think are Group C persons.
How do you seat these different groups of passengers?
Do you allow 2 meter spacing ?
Does it matter if you do not know for certain who is in which group?
No doubt the airlines will have robust and carefully designed plans to manage these issues before they resume their flying programmes.
Discuss.
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
[QUOTE
No doubt the airlines will have robust and carefully designed plans to manage these issues before they resume their flying programmes.][/QUOTE]
Always nice to see a bit of humour on this site.
No doubt the airlines will have robust and carefully designed plans to manage these issues before they resume their flying programmes.][/QUOTE]
Always nice to see a bit of humour on this site.
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 42
Posts: 473
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It’s simple, like swine flue etc the majority of the population will get it at some point. You can’t hide from it forever and for the vast majority it is mild. The measures put in place are to increase the time frame over which the population becomes infected. This allows healthcare systems to put measures in place to cope without being overwhelmed. The airflow through my aircraft type ensures the cabin air is completely replaced every three minutes. There is not much we can do other than be strict with hygiene and aircraft cleaning. Is there a case for restricting load factor? Possibly.
I speak as someone who has a family member who has in all probability had Covid 19. It is not a wild guess either as it was my father who until retirement was a doctor his whole working life. I won’t pretend it is nothing and his symptoms would probably be on the mild to moderate side. Swine flu put him in bed for two days. Covid put him in bed for five days and he continued to feel pretty rough for a good 10-12 days. He had muscle pain, fatigue, a dry cough, loss of smell, loss of taste and a temperature of 37.9 for close on a week. The temperature seemed worse later in the day.
Anyway I forget my point but essentially sensible precautions without throwing ourselves into a health disaster or a global depression.
I speak as someone who has a family member who has in all probability had Covid 19. It is not a wild guess either as it was my father who until retirement was a doctor his whole working life. I won’t pretend it is nothing and his symptoms would probably be on the mild to moderate side. Swine flu put him in bed for two days. Covid put him in bed for five days and he continued to feel pretty rough for a good 10-12 days. He had muscle pain, fatigue, a dry cough, loss of smell, loss of taste and a temperature of 37.9 for close on a week. The temperature seemed worse later in the day.
Anyway I forget my point but essentially sensible precautions without throwing ourselves into a health disaster or a global depression.
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Doctor's waiting room
Posts: 769
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ah but you forgot about Group G:
The myriad of individuals that could unknowingly carry the virus that you encounter during a duty such as security staff, dispatchers, engineers and catering staff and frankly, anyone at all that will be within very close proximity to you or has touched something that you later touch yourself. How do we isolate ourselves from those unsuspecting biological villains?
Do you think those filthy trays at security that you put your iPad and liquids in have ever been cleaned, never mind disinfected?
The myriad of individuals that could unknowingly carry the virus that you encounter during a duty such as security staff, dispatchers, engineers and catering staff and frankly, anyone at all that will be within very close proximity to you or has touched something that you later touch yourself. How do we isolate ourselves from those unsuspecting biological villains?
Do you think those filthy trays at security that you put your iPad and liquids in have ever been cleaned, never mind disinfected?
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Everyone that doesn’t want to risk, what is for 96%, a mild/moderate dose of flu with a 2-3 week recovery time, stay at home and risk redundancy.
Exceptions for those living with vulnerable people, pilots with vulnerable conditions themselves and pilots of latter generations, aged, doddery, whichever politically incorrect label you choose.
The rest of us, like the rest of the healthy, young population need to crack on and prevent economic collapse of our countries. All this flattening the curve nonsense is doing is creating a situation whereby natural immunity is weakened by the length of time this is being drawn out thereby risking re-infection. I don’t see any vaccination this side of September at the earliest, which will be rightly reserved for Frontline key workers and the vulnerable.
this, despite media protestations, is not Ebola nor the Black Death. Neither are irresponsible medical predictions of 500,000 deaths which seem to have been forgotten coming true. I don’t see a single excel centre bed being used, I think in the wash up, a few doomsaying data modellers are going to have a lot of explaining to do. Some involved are wanting to be scalped by the farming community for having over three times the number of cattle slaughtered than later was determined required to contain foot and mouth.
2.4 Billion a day cost in the U.K.to economic production. That doesn’t include the money the government have increased expenditure by to cover social protection.
Exceptions for those living with vulnerable people, pilots with vulnerable conditions themselves and pilots of latter generations, aged, doddery, whichever politically incorrect label you choose.
The rest of us, like the rest of the healthy, young population need to crack on and prevent economic collapse of our countries. All this flattening the curve nonsense is doing is creating a situation whereby natural immunity is weakened by the length of time this is being drawn out thereby risking re-infection. I don’t see any vaccination this side of September at the earliest, which will be rightly reserved for Frontline key workers and the vulnerable.
this, despite media protestations, is not Ebola nor the Black Death. Neither are irresponsible medical predictions of 500,000 deaths which seem to have been forgotten coming true. I don’t see a single excel centre bed being used, I think in the wash up, a few doomsaying data modellers are going to have a lot of explaining to do. Some involved are wanting to be scalped by the farming community for having over three times the number of cattle slaughtered than later was determined required to contain foot and mouth.
2.4 Billion a day cost in the U.K.to economic production. That doesn’t include the money the government have increased expenditure by to cover social protection.
Last edited by VinRouge; 13th Apr 2020 at 18:48.
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: This side of the river Tweed
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Also I think the exit from the lock down will be done in phases with some airports open while others remain closed. The government is talking about having corona virus passports for those who can prove they are immune and can return to work. It's going to be a big problem getting staff who are healthy and qualified/current to return to their work.
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Having a margarita on the beach
Posts: 2,400
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for the advice and the highly detailed scientific explanation. You must be a Nobel prized highly qualified immunologist to be able to make these kind of statements with what is happening in the world right now.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
of whom, 50% didn’t even know they had it.
check out the Iceland survey results.
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Having a margarita on the beach
Posts: 2,400
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I assume You, your relatives and your colleagues got tested for antibodies to ensure you actually got the covid and not the seasonal flu ?
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
if you get it, you know as the symptoms are distinct enough from flu. Would describe the severity though as mild/moderate flu. It’s not what it is being made out to be for the vast majority of healthy working people will have no issue with this. A damn sight less than the number transplant patients, cancer patients and other people with life threatening disorders will be killed if this nonsense lockdown continues, for healthy working age people.
Last edited by VinRouge; 14th Apr 2020 at 11:01.
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Chicken Town
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Suggest you watch ITV (UK) report, “ Into the red zone”. Trip into Lombardy and in particular Bergamo hospital.
State of the art hospital, completely overwhelmed. Dedicated highly skilled care workers close to exhaustion, not to mention the time bomb of PTSD. But that’s ok, you’ve had it, so it’s not so bad. What is it fake news? Jesus it’s nutters like you that have contributed to the misery that thousands are experiencing because you know better. I’ve always known that the intelligence spread within the pilot community is spread, I just didn’t know it was so thin, or more correctly so dim.....
State of the art hospital, completely overwhelmed. Dedicated highly skilled care workers close to exhaustion, not to mention the time bomb of PTSD. But that’s ok, you’ve had it, so it’s not so bad. What is it fake news? Jesus it’s nutters like you that have contributed to the misery that thousands are experiencing because you know better. I’ve always known that the intelligence spread within the pilot community is spread, I just didn’t know it was so thin, or more correctly so dim.....
I really don't buy into the "it's just a bit of flu" argument but VR has a bit of a point....People very definitely are having treatments for some chronic conditions delayed/postponed because resources are committed to countering CV-19, possibly with life changing results.
BTW Interesting news coming out of France this lunchtime that about 30% of the crew of the Charles de Gaulle have tested positive for CV-19, as I understand it about 20 are in some form of intensive care....The effect of CV-19 on that young healthy population of just under 2000 will no doubt be of interest to the statisticians/epidemiologists..
BTW Interesting news coming out of France this lunchtime that about 30% of the crew of the Charles de Gaulle have tested positive for CV-19, as I understand it about 20 are in some form of intensive care....The effect of CV-19 on that young healthy population of just under 2000 will no doubt be of interest to the statisticians/epidemiologists..
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Suggest you watch ITV (UK) report, “ Into the red zone”. Trip into Lombardy and in particular Bergamo hospital.
State of the art hospital, completely overwhelmed. Dedicated highly skilled care workers close to exhaustion, not to mention the time bomb of PTSD. But that’s ok, you’ve had it, so it’s not so bad. What is it fake news? Jesus it’s nutters like you that have contributed to the misery that thousands are experiencing because you know better. I’ve always known that the intelligence spread within the pilot community is spread, I just didn’t know it was so thin, or more correctly so dim.....
State of the art hospital, completely overwhelmed. Dedicated highly skilled care workers close to exhaustion, not to mention the time bomb of PTSD. But that’s ok, you’ve had it, so it’s not so bad. What is it fake news? Jesus it’s nutters like you that have contributed to the misery that thousands are experiencing because you know better. I’ve always known that the intelligence spread within the pilot community is spread, I just didn’t know it was so thin, or more correctly so dim.....
Yet instead of dealing with this rationally, we have decided to put the UK into the worst recession in over 300 years. So please, less reading of irrational media reporting, which seems to have gotten you a little bit excited and a little less lecturing about relative intelligence. You may want to have a look at the impact of a 1% GDP fall on poverty and subsequent life expectancy.
And I didn't mention fake news. My perspective is people need to come to terms that around 0.5% of the global population are going to succumb to this, many of whom would have been on the way out anyway in the next 2-3 years, with the chronic medical conditions that have left them vulnerable to NCov. We shouldnt be succumbing to media driven public hysteria and should be looking instead of the relative impact of our decisions. Sweden for example look as if they are past peak infection and instead of hiding behind the sofa at the 5 O'clock news for the next 6 months, will be through this much quicker than most western countries. With probably a similar total mortality count, compressed into a few months.
We also shouldn't be writing off thousands of Cancer patients and transplant list patients because the sexy disorder of the moment is NCov and Government are so scared of their shadow and criticism, they refuse to take difficult decisions. That in itself is a disgrace. Many of these people are of a working age with much life ahead of them, yet they are being written off to save people in the sunset years.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: In the weather
Age: 44
Posts: 136
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Most people dying of it (over 98%) are over 70. Many would have bought the farm in winter if we hadn't had an exceptionally effective flu jab this winter season, meaning lots of vulnerable people were left in the population. The figures for the UK over winter were around 8K down on the normal weekly death stats. The CURRENT Uk weekly death stats currently match the worst flu outbreak in the last 10 years and are nowhere near where we were during the 1957 flu pandemic.
Yet instead of dealing with this rationally, we have decided to put the UK into the worst recession in over 300 years. So please, less reading of irrational media reporting, which seems to have gotten you a little bit excited and a little less lecturing about relative intelligence. You may want to have a look at the impact of a 1% GDP fall on poverty and subsequent life expectancy.
And I didn't mention fake news. My perspective is people need to come to terms that around 0.5% of the global population are going to succumb to this, many of whom would have been on the way out anyway in the next 2-3 years, with the chronic medical conditions that have left them vulnerable to NCov. We shouldnt be succumbing to media driven public hysteria and should be looking instead of the relative impact of our decisions. Sweden for example look as if they are past peak infection and instead of hiding behind the sofa at the 5 O'clock news for the next 6 months, will be through this much quicker than most western countries. With probably a similar total mortality count, compressed into a few months.
We also shouldn't be writing off thousands of Cancer patients and transplant list patients because the sexy disorder of the moment is NCov and Government are so scared of their shadow and criticism, they refuse to take difficult decisions. That in itself is a disgrace. Many of these people are of a working age with much life ahead of them, yet they are being written off to save people in the sunset years.
Yet instead of dealing with this rationally, we have decided to put the UK into the worst recession in over 300 years. So please, less reading of irrational media reporting, which seems to have gotten you a little bit excited and a little less lecturing about relative intelligence. You may want to have a look at the impact of a 1% GDP fall on poverty and subsequent life expectancy.
And I didn't mention fake news. My perspective is people need to come to terms that around 0.5% of the global population are going to succumb to this, many of whom would have been on the way out anyway in the next 2-3 years, with the chronic medical conditions that have left them vulnerable to NCov. We shouldnt be succumbing to media driven public hysteria and should be looking instead of the relative impact of our decisions. Sweden for example look as if they are past peak infection and instead of hiding behind the sofa at the 5 O'clock news for the next 6 months, will be through this much quicker than most western countries. With probably a similar total mortality count, compressed into a few months.
We also shouldn't be writing off thousands of Cancer patients and transplant list patients because the sexy disorder of the moment is NCov and Government are so scared of their shadow and criticism, they refuse to take difficult decisions. That in itself is a disgrace. Many of these people are of a working age with much life ahead of them, yet they are being written off to save people in the sunset years.
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: The White House
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Emirates Airlines Tests Passengers For COVID-19 Pre-Flight
https://www.forbes.com/sites/lauriew...19-pre-flight/
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Chicken Town
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What you are describing is a state based on the ethics of barbarism, the ultimate end point of capitalism, market value above life, as doomed to failure as any other extreme system. Again look at Bergamo hospital, a more modern facility you won’t find anywhere in the world outside of purely privately funding establishments. Overwhelmed. Do you think they were able to carry out anything other than caring for dying patients. Triage was being practiced, much as you prescribe, didn’t much matter. Coffins being taken out by the military. But hey they’re in their “ sunshine” years. Herd immunity rules....
So, with your new found God authority, what age do you cut of, what criteria do you use, any thing that’s deemed by you as “sexy”? Or maybe now of no further use to society, even after contributing to building the society you now benefit from.
As an example of extremes, there’s you Vin Rouge, and there’s Cpt Tom Moore. 99 years old, raised 14million, but obviously condemned to DNR and useless in the Vin Rouge society of capitalistic judgement. God help us all.,,
So, with your new found God authority, what age do you cut of, what criteria do you use, any thing that’s deemed by you as “sexy”? Or maybe now of no further use to society, even after contributing to building the society you now benefit from.
As an example of extremes, there’s you Vin Rouge, and there’s Cpt Tom Moore. 99 years old, raised 14million, but obviously condemned to DNR and useless in the Vin Rouge society of capitalistic judgement. God help us all.,,