BE-76 aka duchess not recognised by Indian DGCA anymore

[issues]

karan, even I am in the same dilemma. As far as the model number says PA-34-220T its good to go. Seneca 3/4/5 are all 220Ts. Chimes aviation in India operates a Seneca 4 PA34-220T.

[karanmalhotra786]

I think I have found the rule. Please refer to Schedule II, Section A,
8 (d) of the Aircraft Rules 1937 which states that-

(f) An aircraft type to be included in the Aircraft Rating of a Pilot’s licence shall be the aircraft type on the Indian Register of Civil Aircraft and in respect of which a valid Certificate of Airworthiness is in force.

Hope this helps. I was told by one of the DGCA official to write the DGCA regulation exam again to find the answer to this question. Good that I managed to get it without writing those exams again.

[flylikeaBE76]

That helps! What I don't understand is why and how have so many people have got it endorsed on their license? Some more than 3years after the expiry of the airworthiness certificate!

[harsh786techy]

@ Karan... Good work..

The rule says everything. But why were hundreds of people given BE 76 and PA34 200 endorsements when there C of A were invalid.

I think this is the next question to be asked.

[karanmalhotra786]

@Harsh786techy

Thats exactly something that I cant understand as well. I dont think they have any answer to this question.

@issues

Piper Senenca 1 and 2 are PA-34-200T and are the most widely used Seneca's throughtout the world for pilot trainings. Most of the flight schools operate these aircrafts. I am not sure if they will endorse Piper Seneca 1 and 2 in India.

The only Piper Seneca 2 in India was with Birmi Flying Academy which had some issues about 5 months back and is currently out of service.

[harsh786techy]

If they go by this rule then there is NO MULTI TRAINER AVAILABLE IN INDIA.
People have to fly King air for their multi ratings now.

[gagandeep]

@harsh786techy -Thanks for your reply.

Originally Posted by harsh786techy

Just check CARs for syllabus for multi rating. You can fly any multi for 10 hours and 10-15 Sim and do skill test on the a/c you wish to get your rating on.

So this means I have to do 20-25 hours for my addon again not only 10 hours.
Is Skill test is same as Checkride?

One of my friend went there this monday and asked them the same thing and Vashishta told him to fly 10 hours in multi engine whose C of A is valid and you have to give Technical exam in that particular a/c..

[karanmalhotra786]

I request someone to clarify this with the DGCA as and when they plan to visit there office. The type tech exam for the Piper Seneca is a general PA-34 exam. I see no reason why they should ask us to train on a specific type of Seneca when there is hardly any difference in all the five versions.

I have burned my fingers in getting this information out. I am hoping that the DGCA will generalise the Piper Seneca as an approved trainer irrespective of the type in case we ask them to study the rule practically.

The other trainers available as of now are Partenavia P-68 and Baron B58 that are widely available in India.

[Pulkdahulk]

i heard that if you have a higher type rating let say an airbus or boeing then one cannot do their recency on lets say a cessna if you were endorsed on it. is that true with dgca IR recency and I am not flying the B or A for more than a year as an example

[jackcarls0n]

is a duchess rating important? doesnt the DGCA issue a license stating CPL with AMEL? Thought the type ratings were only for aircrafts above 5700 kgs.

[harsh786techy]

@Jackcarlson

Sir,In India they give you endorsements on a specified aircraft and not a general class and type of aircraft, eg AMEL as it is in FAA.

I do not understand the concept and neither do many other fellow pilots.
It is just an old system going on from many decades...

[jackcarls0n]

sounds like my kinda thing..same out here in ktm. no general endorsement. type endorsement.

but new pilots dont need to get a license issued. the airlines hires u based on ur foreign license and then takes care of license conversion.

just gotta pass the test.

anyway, what bout some of the aircrafts which are being operated but not in the list.

the caravan 208 flies on a regular basis in india and also the cessna 310 that is in lucknow is used.

dont see them in the list..strange rules ...for sure..

[aditya104]

Gagan has made a valid point.
Everybody check out this in case you missed it.

Please open this link.

AIRCRAFT

Go to APPROVED FIRMS on the left hand side and open Eastern region.pdf in Region wise approval section and find Beech duchess 76.

It shows under Serial no. 16 - Govt. of Bihar and validity of approval is 02-08-2011.

What's this mean?

[Rob Sponge]

CAR M Sub Part F Maintenance OrganisationCAR M Sub Part GContinuing Airworthiness Management Organisation


Thanks for the link, Aditya. But I'm not sure whether this solves the problem. Has this got to do anything about the validity of the CoA and registration of VT-EJR? Somebody throw light on this.

[aditya104]

Anyone know how much it costs to renew an aircraft C of A?

[P51mustang]

Im still researching ,with respect to the other aircrafts apart from the BE -76 but there is a chance that the list that was put up is with respect to the new list of aircraft that is being accepted by the dgca,in addition to the old one , maybe thats why the cessna 152 cessna 310, b737-800 ,a320 have been left out ,even though they are still flying , (my guess ,why would they take the trouble of looking into and including the old list of aircraft that are there) . Correct me if im wrong ,it will be great if we can work together on it , rather than pulling me down by this statement

[flylikeaBE76]

Good news for all those who've flown the Seneca 1/2

This aircraft was registered in India just 2 days back and should have an airworthiness certificate pretty soon. I'm posting the details from the DGCA website about this PA-34 200. Hope this helps:

DETAILS OF AIRCRAFT WITH REGISTRATION NUMBER** VT-PTL

Certificate of Regn No.* : 4208 Hq. File No.****** *: 4-36/2011 AI(I)
Date of Regn**************** : 25/05/2011 Date of De-Regn :
Date of Issue of Regn.** : 25/05/2011 Status***************** : Registered
Owner's Name*********** * : FALCON AVIATION ACADEMY
Owners Address*********** : B-4/172, SAFDARJUNG ENCLAVE
********************************** ** : NEW DELHI-110029
************************************* : NEW DELHI
Owner's Nationality***** * : INDIAN
Operator's Name********** FALCON AVIATION ACADEMY
*********************************** * :
Operator's Address******* : B-4/172, SAFDARJUNG ENCLAVE
************************************* :NEW DELHI-110029 *
*********************************** * : NEW DELHI
C of A No.******************** : Date of Issue of C of A*** :
C of A Valid From********* : C of A valid UpTo********** :
Hours since last C of A** : Hours since Manufacture* :
Date of Last weighment* : All Up weight UpTo******** :1910
Category*********** : Normal Date of Category*** :01/01/1900
Sub-Category-1 : Sub-Category-2**** :
Sub-Category-3 : Sub-Category-4**** :
Sub-Category-5 : *
Aircraft Name** : PIPER SENECA Aircraft Serial No.* : 34-7450034
Aircraft Type**** : PIPER SENECA Aircraft Model******* : PA 34-200
Passenger Capacity : 5 Crew********************* : 1
Cabin Crew** : Observer Seats****** :
Engine Name : LYCOMING Engine Model*** : IO-360-C1E6
Engine Type * : Piston No. of Engines** : 2
Propeller**** : HARTZELL Propeller Model : HC-C2YK-2CEUF/FC7666A
Modes******* : RVSM************** :
Date of manufacture /* /1973 Date of Arrival** /* /2011
Region********** : MUMBAI Sub-Region******* : MUMBAI
Usual Station : KHUJHRAHO Old Regn. No.*** : C-FVRD
*

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[gagandeep]

@flylikeaBE76

Thanks for the update..

And the Seneca I registered 2 days back.
Its old CALL SIGN is C-FVQO on Canadian website >tc.gc.ca<

[gagandeep]

Please look at this..

2 Piper Seneca I is Exported to INDIA in month of April 2011 from CANADA.

Common Name Model Serial Number Canadian Marks Exported to
Piper PA-34-200 34-7450053 C-FTMN INDIA
Piper PA-34-200 34-7450034 C-FVQO INDIA


Canadian Civil Aircraft Register - Monthly Summaries - Aircraft Imported and Exported

After open this link, please select year of 2011 and submit.
It will show you Import and Export. Go to EXPORT in the month of APRIL

But the date of export is not there.
So, Hope for the best..

[flylikeaBE76]

If only someone could get the Bihar govt to renew the CoA,all issues could be resolved.I can prove from their very website that numerous licenses have been issued with the BE76 as a multi endorsement as late as a few months ago, which is almost 3yrs since the CoA of the only duchess in India had expired. They cannot randomly decide to stop issuing this multi endorsement as it is just unfair and unjust to all those who've trained on this aircraft.
If need be, write to the DGCA or even involve the media as the combined total training cost of all those who've trained on the duchess from india alone could amount to millions of dollars.
Here are the details obtained from the DGCA's website of the only registered duchess in India:

DETAILS OF AIRCRAFT WITH REGISTRATION NUMBER** VT-EJR

Certificate of Regn No.* : 2274 Hq. File No.****** *: 4/20/85-AI(1)
Date of Regn**************** : 13/11/1985 Date of De-Regn :
Date of Issue of Regn.** : 13/11/1985 Status***************** : Registered
Owner's Name*********** * : GOVT. OF BIHAR
Owners Address*********** : FINANCE DEPARTMENT
********************************** ** :
************************************* : PATNA
Owner's Nationality***** * :
Operator's Name********** GOVT. OF BIHAR
*********************************** * :
Operator's Address******* : GB
*************************************
*********************************** * : GB
C of A No.******************** : 1788 Date of Issue of C of A*** :23/02/2007
C of A Valid From********* : 19/02/2007 C of A valid UpTo********** :18/02/2008
Hours since last C of A** : 34 Hours since Manufacture* :5277
Date of Last weighment* : 31/01/1986 All Up weight UpTo******** :1769
Category*********** : Normal Date of Category*** :13/11/1985
Sub-Category-1 : Passenger Sub-Category-2**** :
Sub-Category-3 : Sub-Category-4**** :
Sub-Category-5 : *
Aircraft Name** : BEECH DUCHESS 76 Aircraft Serial No.* : ME-435
Aircraft Type**** : BEECH DUCHESS 76 Aircraft Model******* : 76
Passenger Capacity : 3 Crew********************* : 1
Cabin Crew** : Observer Seats****** :
Engine Name : LYCOMING Engine Model*** : LYCO. O-360 AIG-6D
Engine Type * : Piston No. of Engines** : 2
Propeller**** : HARTZELL Propeller Model : PHC-C3YF-2F
Modes******* : RVSM************** :
Date of manufacture 1 /*1 /1984 Date of Arrival** 13 /*11 /1985
Region********** : KOLKATTA Sub-Region******* : PATNA
Usual Station : PATNA Old Regn. No.*** :
*

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