Not defending the DGCA, WPC, or the system(s) in India. Yes, this country is eons behind, and has potential that will NEVER be realized. However there are opportunities in aviation, if one is willing to work towards, even in India.
It’s not always easy for a CPL holder to get that proverbial “break”. Try helping yourselves and each other by doing the following:
1. DO NOT pay an employer for your job.
2. DO NOT pay for Type Ratings.
3. Qualify yourself (i.e. convert your Foreign License to a DGCA license) and stay current. You do not need to go to “coaching centers”. Ask around for help. Folks will be willing to lend you their notes/study material for FREE!
4. Avoid getting into pissing contests with the DGCA, WPC, the Indian Government, etc…they always win.
5. Times are tough, if circumstances permit look for flying jobs around the world. It doesn’t matter how menial they sound (bush flying, flight instruction, pipeline patrol, aerial tours, etc). It will make you a better pilot, and maybe even a better person. They can and never will be a substitute for “experience”.
This post is not a flame bait. If I have offended anyone’s sensibilities, I apologize.
I, like most you reading/posting on this forum am Indian who experienced much the same stuff. However there is always light at the end of the tunnel. Try not to get financially exploited.
"You do not need to go to “coaching centers”. Ask around for help. Folks will be willing to lend you their notes/study material for FREE!"
The information provided by you is helpful but I would like to give some light to the fact that you shared with us which has been quoted above.
Sharing my own experience I have noticed, for a conversion exam which I attended you cannot entirely depend on the notes because there comes a point when you need a teacher who can give you some explanations .I do know that there are plenty of notes being circulated in the market but for passing these DGCA exams you have to have some backing, where the teacher's role comes into play. Besides the notes are not given by the DGCA, so it is not official like fhe FAA question bank many students waste a year trying to pass the exams in 2 -3 sessions. Have you checked out the fail rate of the DGCA CPL exam? A lot pilots have walked that road and ended up going to coaching classe after a few attempts. Choosing a good instructor is important, word of mouth from people you know count.
Well here my point lies in a simple fact: Provided with as many fat books as you may you might not understand a bit if not given some help from outside(in this case tutors, teachers) for these DGCA exams.
Your points are very much valid on paper ... but not in practice. My heart agrees with you .. but not my mind. Here's why :
Quote:
1. DO NOT pay an employer for your job.
Lets say you spend something like Rs20 Lakh (~$50,000) on your training, and you finally do manage to convert your licence by going through the red tape that this wonderful Govt. of India and it's departments make you and everyone else go through.
You're sitting jobless at home for weeks together and then the weeks become months. Suddenly one day, you stumble upon some agent who promises you a job if you are willing to pay an amount upfront. (after you are given the Letter of Appointment and after you sign the company contract.), will you not grab it with both hands ? If your answer is negative, then all I can say is your loss is someone else's gain.
Quote:
2. DO NOT pay for Type Ratings.
This is similar to the above point. If you are not willing to pay for your type rating, then the company will choose someone else who will be gladly willing to do so. This is the worst and saddest outcome of OVER POPULATION in India. When there is a mad rat race, merit automatically takes a backseat and it's all about who has more money or "connections" ,,, or the Indian local term .. "JUGAAD".
Quote:
3. Qualify yourself (i.e. convert your Foreign License to a DGCA license) and stay current. You do not need to go to “coaching centers”. Ask around for help. Folks will be willing to lend you their notes/study material for FREE!
I would agree to an extent on this one. Although going to a coaching centre has the biggest benefit of a student being "in touch" with his colleagues and any new rule/news that might come up concerning the DGCA or WPC etc. Also rumour has it that some very popular instructors of these coaching centers have "connections" with the DGCA and get either the entire question paper or part of it "leaked" a day or two before the exams. "Astonishingly" the questions of Surinder's practice test (given to students a day prior to the actual DGCA tests) are remarkably similar !!
Quote:
4. Avoid getting into pissing contests with the DGCA, WPC, the Indian Government, etc…they always win.
They win if you dont bribe. You win and get your job done if you pay them cold hard cash. This is the harsh and bitter truth. Trust me, I know ATLEAST 30 people (not kidding) who have paid a MINIMUM of Rs 2 Lakhs as Bribe to DGCA guys to get their jobs done. There's a phenomenal amount of BLACK MONEY floating in India !!
Quote:
5. Times are tough, if circumstances permit look for flying jobs around the world. It doesn’t matter how menial they sound (bush flying, flight instruction, pipeline patrol, aerial tours, etc). It will make you a better pilot, and maybe even a better person. They can and never will be a substitute for “experience
Totally totally agree with you on this one pal !
BOTTOMLINE :
Thanks to our parents, grandparents and the earlier generation .... we have this huge PHENOMENAL BURGEONING POPULATION and competition is mad and crazy. As a result of this ... people will take all the possibe short cuts and other crooked means to get their things done to get ahead of others.
As I had mentioned earlier ... All this feeling of patriotism and national pride in India is ONLY RESTRICTED to India-Pak cricket matches and during Independence day while watching some TV programs playing young children singing the national anthem and other songs.
In normal day to day life, each and every one is just waiting for some opportunity to stab each other's back, just to get one step ahead of the other.
Can somebody please tell me on what date the April conversion tests will be conducted?
The dates for April exams will be released only when the january test's result are out. The way i think this time April exams will be in the 3rd or last week of april, but i suggest to constantly checkout for the dates in <<http://dgca.nic.in>>.
When do they close application for this batch? How many centres are there and are they all full?
The closing date will alo be given in the results for January test. I could'nt understand the last part of your question but will try to answer, the way i take it--there are four Examination centres in India i.e. Delhi, Mumbai, Kalcutta,Chenai.you can choose the nearest one to you for appearing for the exams. You can apply for it only when you have computer no. and the required amout of flying experience. for more PM/IM me. the submission of appliction for exams starts on the day of release of results of january exams. and goes for approx 2 weeks till closing date.
Can the coaching for conversion be done in 30 days.
I think, YES, you can do it in 1 month only if, and i repeat, only if you are commited towards it, Otherwise even if you put one year into it and are not committed enough you are very likely to be failing every time. Just go to the right tutor or coaching centre and devote 5-6 hours into it for individual study. I am sure you would pass.
the list for the tutors and coaching centtre is given in <<http://www.ippilots.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=116>>
If anyone knows any instructors who are teaching classes in Chennai, could you please give me their names and contact? Thanks...
Hey why dont you try this link <<http://www.ippilots.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=116>>
I know that there are not any chenai based instructors in the list but I sent it just to suggest you that please if you want to really pass the exams, go to New delhi or Mumbai. Actually New Delhi is the best. One of my good friends was also in chenai but preferred to come to New Delhi for his conversion exam. For any furthur details on the instructors based in New Delhi PM/IM me.
Lets say you spend something like Rs20 Lakh (~$50,000) on your training, and you finally do manage to convert your licence by going through the red tape that this wonderful Govt. of India and it's departments make you and everyone else go through.
You're sitting jobless at home for weeks together and then the weeks become months. Suddenly one day, you stumble upon some agent who promises you a job if you are willing to pay an amount upfront. (after you are given the Letter of Appointment and after you sign the company contract.), will you not grab it with both hands ? If your answer is negative, then all I can say is your loss is someone else's gain.
How many agents have you seen offering you a job with some sort of reward.....The only way getting into a major airlines in india is thru induction or good contacts with right people.....If you know any agent offering job PM me his details....I will pay double what he is asking....
Quote:
This is similar to the above point. If you are not willing to pay for your type rating, then the company will choose someone else who will be gladly willing to do so. This is the worst and saddest outcome of OVER POPULATION in India. When there is a mad rat race, merit automatically takes a backseat and it's all about who has more money or "connections" ,,, or the Indian local term .. "JUGAAD".
Getting your Type rating is not a "JUGAAD"......It's merit...The person with type rating is more qualified than the person who doesn't has any.....In this over population how many pilots are there....I think india has less pilots than US.....
If you do A320 rating and then suddenly you find that there are openings in Jet airways for 737...Then what...You wasted your money thinking what the F*@K
Quote:
Also rumour has it that some very popular instructors of these coaching centers have "connections" with the DGCA and get either the entire question paper or part of it "leaked" a day or two before the exams. "Astonishingly" the questions of Surinder's practice test (given to students a day prior to the actual DGCA tests) are remarkably similar !!
Last to last time in Oct,08 attempt......Nothing came from his questionaire....Only 3 questions worth 9 marks...Thats it....You pass only if you study...Thats it...Money cannot make you pass....It's an old tale....Now no paper leak and all that stuff....
Quote:
They win if you dont bribe. You win and get your job done if you pay them cold hard cash. This is the harsh and bitter truth. Trust me, I know ATLEAST 30 people (not kidding) who have paid a MINIMUM of Rs 2 Lakhs as Bribe to DGCA guys to get their jobs done. There's a phenomenal amount of BLACK MONEY floating in India !!
India is a bureaucratic country....But it doesn't means that you need to bribe anyone....Do everything according to the book...It's hard...But no one told life is easy mate.....
Quote:
As I had mentioned earlier ... All this feeling of patriotism and national pride in India is ONLY RESTRICTED to India-Pak cricket matches and during Independence day while watching some TV programs playing young children singing the national anthem and other songs.
In normal day to day life, each and every one is just waiting for some opportunity to stab each other's back, just to get one step ahead of the other.
Mate i think you never stepped out of your place.....Just try and socialize and you will have your answer on that....Stabbing others back is not about patriotism but about being self-righteous....
Cricket matches are not about patriotism but sportsmanship and spirit of the game....
You need to change your attitude if you want to work as a pilot ever....I have seen pilots been kicked out due to there attitude....
Regards
Schumi
Last edited by Schumi - Red Baron : 11th March 2009 at 09:12.
If cricket matches are about sportsmanship and NOT got anything to do with national feeling, would you care to explain the sheer passion, frustration, anger and fury of the crowds when India loses a Match ONLY to pakistan as opposed to say a loss against Australia or any other country ????
Mate ! If you think leaking of DGCA exam papers and this "pay to pass exams" thing does not happen anymore, Im quite certain you are living under a rock ! ... or somewhere in Kanyakumari or Andaman/Nicobar islands... cut off from rest of the country. You'll be shocked to know just how much every guy/gal is willing to shell out to pass these papers and get their licences converted ASAP !!!
About the "pay for job" thing. It is very much there in India.
It is something like the "NRI or management quota" system in Colleges and Universites in India .. where people who are unable to make it based on merit .. they end up paying a phenomenal amount and get a seat in a college of their choice and stream.
I had written about this in an earlier post. The ones who give a job upon payment of some money are not your usual agents, but rather HR managers/others in the Airline itself. Since there is no proper auditing system, such things go unnoticed.
Again ... you will be shocked how much money these people ask for the job and the number of guys/gals gladly willing to pay !
It's like when there are 20 vacancies, 8 to 10 of them are PFJ (Pay for job).
If cricket matches are about sportsmanship and NOT got anything to do with national feeling, would you care to explain the sheer passion, frustration, anger and fury of the crowds when India loses a Match ONLY to pakistan as opposed to say a loss against Australia or any other country ????
Patriotism is love of and devotion for your country. Not hatred for others. A cricket follower/fan is equally dissapointed when his/her team looses to any other team. And India pakistan is bit more like Australia and kiwis.....But in asia we just take it out of proportion....
Quote:
Mate ! If you think leaking of DGCA exam papers and this "pay to pass exams" thing does not happen anymore, Im quite certain you are living under a rock ! ... or somewhere in Kanyakumari or Andaman/Nicobar islands... cut off from rest of the country. You'll be shocked to know just how much every guy/gal is willing to shell out to pass these papers and get their licences converted ASAP !!!
Are you confident on that??? I will pay you INR 30 lacs or more if you get me the dgca paper....
I agree there might be shop stewards, lazy, incompetent, whingers who can't study and are willing to shell out thier parents money...But how many actually got it done....There are many who want the paper to be leaked but can you get it done...nope....
Quote:
About the "pay for job" thing. It is very much there in India.
Quote:
It is something like the "NRI or management quota" system in Colleges and Universites in India .. where people who are unable to make it based on merit .. they end up paying a phenomenal amount and get a seat in a college of their choice and stream.
I had written about this in an earlier post. The ones who give a job upon payment of some money are not your usual agents, but rather HR managers/others in the Airline itself. Since there is no proper auditing system, such things go unnoticed.
Again ... you will be shocked how much money these people ask for the job and the number of guys/gals gladly willing to pay !It's like when there are 20 vacancies, 8 to 10 of them are PFJ (Pay for job).
Out of 4000 pilots i think such pilots will be like 100...Thats it...But what you said is true upto a point....And now there won't be any induction so i cannot imagine such procedures being followed anymore without any job in any airline....
It's sad but true how the aviation industry works....I think the whole aviation industry needs to be bit more transparent and a major change is required in industry.....
Regards
Schumi
Last edited by Schumi - Red Baron : 11th March 2009 at 09:15.
Trying to prepare for my DGCA conversion. Which books do you all use to study. Most of training was done using Jeppessen. Where do I get the book that will help me with DGCA regulations. Any help will be highly appreciated.
However, your best bet would be to get hold of some xeroxed notes/question banks of Seth, Surinder etc from other students who are planning to take this exam.
I have a FAA cpl and have attempeted the DCCA exms twice and did not pass. Do you know anyone who can help me If you know what I mean!!!
I would be grateful if you can kindly help me out.
Trying to prepare for my DGCA conversion. Which books do you all use to study. Most of training was done using Jeppessen. Where do I get the book that will help me with DGCA regulations. Any help will be highly appreciated.
Hi there NextGen73
Well since you are going to give the conversion exam I suggest to go for Ground Studies for Pilots series for Navigation, Radio Aids, Instrument Aids and yes of course, do study that Jeppessen books for Practical Met. This may be contrary to others who might say that Jeppessen is no good for Met. questions which come in DGCA composite test, but believe me this time in the January,2009 Paper there were more than 25 questions of Met. There were alot of practical met Ques. and if you knew your Jeppessen very well then it would be piece of cake for you.
But i suggest you to go to a good instructors for studying for the conversion exam, Because you have to agree that a teacher does make alot of things much simplified for you, given that you have to study for these tough papers of such vast syllabus in just 2 months time.You can get the list of instructors from <<http://www.ippilots.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=116>>
I think it might have helped.
Hey, anybody help me with the following questions issues I have with the conversion process:
1) How do I get a Verification Letter of my FAA License? I contacted them, and they told me:
" The FAA will respond directly to CAAs request for verification of US Airman Certificate . The FAA cannot verify a US airman certificate to a CAA a the request of the airman. "
2) I have a A-320 and a CL-604 Type rating on my FAA. Will they issue these on my Indian License upon applying for my indian license, or do I need to do something else?
3) I have a canadian CPL/Canadian RT, will they issue me a FRTOL on this basis?
4) Somebody explain me the flight test deal. I have 1000 Hours, and 500 Hours of Jet. I have 500 hours of Jet on a VT registered aircraft flying under FATA, do I really have to do PIC on a Multi and all the day and night stuff when I've done it in a Jet as SIC?
5) Anybody know who I can talk to in the DGCA about this, I keep calling them, but nobody ever answers!
6) I just finished my DGCA Class II, but they said it will take 2-3 months to get the results. I heard I can get an NOC based on my Class 1 FAA medical, and then apply for my Class 1 DGCA. Who do I get this NOC from, the Medical DGCA Head? Who is it? Is there one in bombay?
Thanks for answering my questions, I'm gonna show up to the DGCA, but I want to know something before they bite my head off!
create an account, then log in and request verification of certificate privileges. The FAA guys will email it to you in a pdf file immediately, and you can give that to the DGCA when converting your license.
re: Canadian RT
you need to do part I rt exams check the wpc website. Alternatively you can convert your FAA license to a Canadian one, only then can your canadian RT be directly converted without having to take the part I exams.
re: Medical
Talk to the present DGMS at the medical cell and ask him for the noc, dunno if you can do that from mumbai though.
re: jet rating plus day and night checks issue....beats me...dunno that one---ask the guys in the atpl threads, they should know.
check the dgca website www.dgca.nic.in for the phone nos. they have an operator that actually answers, just keep trying all the numbers. I did find the guys who answered pretty helpful, ask for the licensing department.
The profiles of commercial pilots are changing, and so is the business of aviation and the technology of aircraft: we are trying to update study material accordingly. But this won't happen overnight. About the DGCA exams being the toughest to clear, well, that's because we maintain quality
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