Hijacked MAS flight MH 653 on 4th December 1977
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Well Sunnyboy,
I was only 8 years old at that time; the tragedy occurred quite close to my home then in Skudai. My family members are airline enthusiasts and I do research quite a bit into the incident when I decided pursue a career in flying. Without trying to sound audacious, I fully subscribe to Taufupok's policy of no firearms on any public commercial aircraft which will imply that Capt. Ganjoor did make the mistake of not standing firm in disallowing the carriage of guns by the minister's bodyguards.
Having said that, I can sadly relate to the fact that the fateful incident happened on Capt Ganjoor's wedding anniversary leading him to make an exception knowing that the minister would really have raised such a stink resulting in prolonged delay. We all can make such mistake or keel under pressure from high power individuals like that cabinet minister; unfortunately this ended with tragic consequences.
I was only 8 years old at that time; the tragedy occurred quite close to my home then in Skudai. My family members are airline enthusiasts and I do research quite a bit into the incident when I decided pursue a career in flying. Without trying to sound audacious, I fully subscribe to Taufupok's policy of no firearms on any public commercial aircraft which will imply that Capt. Ganjoor did make the mistake of not standing firm in disallowing the carriage of guns by the minister's bodyguards.
Having said that, I can sadly relate to the fact that the fateful incident happened on Capt Ganjoor's wedding anniversary leading him to make an exception knowing that the minister would really have raised such a stink resulting in prolonged delay. We all can make such mistake or keel under pressure from high power individuals like that cabinet minister; unfortunately this ended with tragic consequences.
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It's indeed disingenuous for Sunnyboy to imply that just because baba was a young lad he knows nothing.
Take heart baba, you sound like a knowleageable young chap with a bright future in Malaysian aviation. Don't let the little put down get to you.
There are a number of nearly old farts who are very full of themselves, just don't be like them when your turn comes.
Take heart baba, you sound like a knowleageable young chap with a bright future in Malaysian aviation. Don't let the little put down get to you.
There are a number of nearly old farts who are very full of themselves, just don't be like them when your turn comes.
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Oops, me thinks u are a bit late. Sunnybody has edited his post, now u look like a fool. Can't shake the feeling that he was indeed the Batam Sani as alluded by someone earlier; however that post had been deleted.
Coming back to Ganjoor; it was his wedding anniversary, not birthday! He was indeed a faithful romantic, rushing home for the anniversary dinner which he eventually never had. Now if I got it right, a future Mapa leader then went widow humping under false pretenses wrt his insurance payout....wow, mind bongling low low life, despicable behaviour. Gee, and Mapa took out adverts with my subscription money to laud this pariah when he was thrown a ****ty latukship....outrageous and brain numbing! Can Mapa fellas ever hold their heads high ever again, sheeesh
Coming back to Ganjoor; it was his wedding anniversary, not birthday! He was indeed a faithful romantic, rushing home for the anniversary dinner which he eventually never had. Now if I got it right, a future Mapa leader then went widow humping under false pretenses wrt his insurance payout....wow, mind bongling low low life, despicable behaviour. Gee, and Mapa took out adverts with my subscription money to laud this pariah when he was thrown a ****ty latukship....outrageous and brain numbing! Can Mapa fellas ever hold their heads high ever again, sheeesh
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O.k. Babasinkeh what would you do as a professional, like Ganjoor was?
Let's assume for a moment the most logical course of events: after the quarrel between the Minister and Ganjoor at Penang Airport, the Minister writes a letter of complaint to the Company and the Company tells Ganjoor, even better, writes him a letter with the instruction to accept in future the weapons of the minister's body-guards in the cabin during flight. It might have been Ganjoor's wedding anniversary, but...... By the way, you are not alone in your love for airlines. Keep up the good work and I will not be surprised that one day you will find out there was a letter like that. This is pure speculation of course.
Let's assume for a moment the most logical course of events: after the quarrel between the Minister and Ganjoor at Penang Airport, the Minister writes a letter of complaint to the Company and the Company tells Ganjoor, even better, writes him a letter with the instruction to accept in future the weapons of the minister's body-guards in the cabin during flight. It might have been Ganjoor's wedding anniversary, but...... By the way, you are not alone in your love for airlines. Keep up the good work and I will not be surprised that one day you will find out there was a letter like that. This is pure speculation of course.
Last edited by SunnyBoy; 7th Feb 2009 at 13:50.
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Babasinkeh, I hope you will not cave to pressure as sunnyboy would have you do. For instance, if your DFO or chief pilot pressure you to take the absolute minimum fuel inspite of the possibility in the wx forecast of some destination and alternate CBs ..........just don't do it, otherwise you will be screaming your ass off begging for vectors to Batam, besides screwing up other pilots fuel status with your begging for priority handling, etc.
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MasMamak, it is obvious you are the best boy of the classroom. In real live though it is sometimes a balancing act between the safety of the ''aircraft'' and the continuation of your employment with the Company. I don't know what Captain Ganjoor's considerations were and I don't think anybody knows. I am still waiting for Babasinkeh's answer.
Last edited by SunnyBoy; 11th Feb 2009 at 14:54.
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280807
JAR in Malaysia, Capt.Wooblah, 280807: Remember this was the 70's and a hijack of a domestic Malaysian flight was unheard of.
Outstanding decision Baba. However IT IS NOT THAT SHORT. Don't forget you were 8 years old when all this happened. It gets me to see that you have no scruples to criticize an established professional of 1977 with the arguments of to-days safety standards. Standards that are reached due the experiences of earlier crews and of which you now benefit. Why don't you listen to the people who were in aviation at the time, before you believe you know it all. To say that Ganjoor was an above standard professional and at the same time say he let the weapons onboard because of his ''wedding anniversary???'' That would not be very professional on the part of Babu, would it? I am pretty sure, there must have been a more likely reason. Like the letter. And tell me, how do you know his wedding anniversary was the deciding factor? Did Ganjoor tell you?
Outstanding decision Baba. However IT IS NOT THAT SHORT. Don't forget you were 8 years old when all this happened. It gets me to see that you have no scruples to criticize an established professional of 1977 with the arguments of to-days safety standards. Standards that are reached due the experiences of earlier crews and of which you now benefit. Why don't you listen to the people who were in aviation at the time, before you believe you know it all. To say that Ganjoor was an above standard professional and at the same time say he let the weapons onboard because of his ''wedding anniversary???'' That would not be very professional on the part of Babu, would it? I am pretty sure, there must have been a more likely reason. Like the letter. And tell me, how do you know his wedding anniversary was the deciding factor? Did Ganjoor tell you?
Last edited by SunnyBoy; 17th Feb 2009 at 13:07.
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It seems to me very unlikely, that someone would kill himself for being offered betel nuts leaves and lime or being talked to too much (with all respect, Hassan Bok, 270807). Shooting both pilots in flight is suicidal at all times, unless you have a plan B to bring the aircraft safely on the ground. This was clearly not the case. Looks like PREMEDITATED, and strokes with the situation described by SIREH, 270807: ''So the corrupt bloke got desperate''…. Facing court cases and even imprisonment. Why hijacking an aircraft? Because, amongst other reasons, that way no-body would know about his decision to leave this world before judgment. This is my view and the best I can do towards my promise to a Malaysian who told me 30 years ago that the truth would never be known in Malaysia.
Last edited by SunnyBoy; 26th Feb 2009 at 08:25.
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Sunnyboy , you know I have been reading this thread for ages and the more I read it the more I feel saddened for I feel that justice would never be given to the souls of Capt. Ganjoor , his crew and the passengers.When it happened I was too young to even put two words together but maybe now you can answer some of the questions that are at the back of my mind.....Was Capt.Ganjoor from Indian Airlines ?How old was he when this took place ?How long was he with MAS at that point in time ?What happened to his family...his wife and daughter ?How old was his child when it happened ?The SNAKE that you talk about , was it Capt.Gurucharan Singh...the bloke who was with Jet and where is he these days ?Why was the Malaysian govt. so quick to attribute this accident to the so called Jap Red Army ? So many years hence haven't anyone among the M'sian citizens questioned the reason behind the crash ?Did the M'sian govt. ever acknowledge the fact that there was a skirmish between the minister's guards and Capt.Ganjoor about the carriage of weapons on board ?Did they ever say that the minister in question was desperate ?When you heard the CVR transcripts , who was in the cockpit at that point in time ?...You know it's never too late to bring out these questions in public....I mean to the masses in Malaysia.Maybe then justice would be done to Capt.Ganjoor and all the life lost on that day rather than have memorial ceremonies which I don't think mean much to those who gather there anyway...except the usual lip service and croc tears....
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Sky Dancer, sorry, I cannot give you an answer on any of your questions. Except that I believe the transcript of the CVR was in the news paper. I am not sure that this was the correct and complete representation of the original.
Last edited by SunnyBoy; 19th Feb 2009 at 20:59.
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Sky Dancer, you are ABSOLUTELY right about the SNAKE, it's that individual!
As for Babu's widow and child, I will refrain from any more comment as Capt Wooblah rightly pointed out some time ago that it is best we leave them alone to move forward.
The M'sian govt ( or the then defacto supremo, the then DPM ) made use of the fact that the Cuban embassador to Japan was onboard to pin it on the Japanese Red army to avoid any more probes into the involvement of a member of the M'sian cabinet in the tragedy. At that time, the powers that be behind the M'sian govt were already putting in plans to put the then PM Hussein Onn to pasture. It was a murky picture, but the ACA ( or BPR ) then was trying to do what the PM wanted, but the DPM put the brakes on the probe.
As for Babu's widow and child, I will refrain from any more comment as Capt Wooblah rightly pointed out some time ago that it is best we leave them alone to move forward.
The M'sian govt ( or the then defacto supremo, the then DPM ) made use of the fact that the Cuban embassador to Japan was onboard to pin it on the Japanese Red army to avoid any more probes into the involvement of a member of the M'sian cabinet in the tragedy. At that time, the powers that be behind the M'sian govt were already putting in plans to put the then PM Hussein Onn to pasture. It was a murky picture, but the ACA ( or BPR ) then was trying to do what the PM wanted, but the DPM put the brakes on the probe.
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Sireh,thanks for that.That was useful.I'm trying to piece together a couple of things as to why maybe Babu did not vehemently object to the carriage of weapons.For instance he may have been a relatively new expat in MAS at that time and did not want to make much of a scene.And if he was from Indian Airlines , crew there are used to so called powerful people travelling as pax and pulling their weight around...and I would be still be interested to know as to what happened to his family...and where is the SNAKE these days ?In KAL ?And did anyone in MAS hear the full CVR ?
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i can confirm that Capt Ganjoor was ex Indian Airlines.
He had been with MAS for a while,and by all accounts was well liked and respected there.
And if this thread is any indication,its nice to see that he is still fondly remembered.
Till the arrival of skymarshalls,the practice in Indian Airlines,was for the weapon of the VIP's bodygaurd to be unloaded and handed over to the Capt and carried in the cockpit.(and returned after landing at destination)
No matter how high and mighty,there were no exceptions.
And in those monopoly days,IA Capts had the absolute last word in such matters.
A letter from MAS management to the contrary ,as some suggest,would have been an unpleasant dilemma
Capt Ganjoor left behind a family in India too(his son is 45,and daughter a few years younger)
They have moved on,and are doing well.
He had been with MAS for a while,and by all accounts was well liked and respected there.
And if this thread is any indication,its nice to see that he is still fondly remembered.
Till the arrival of skymarshalls,the practice in Indian Airlines,was for the weapon of the VIP's bodygaurd to be unloaded and handed over to the Capt and carried in the cockpit.(and returned after landing at destination)
No matter how high and mighty,there were no exceptions.
And in those monopoly days,IA Capts had the absolute last word in such matters.
A letter from MAS management to the contrary ,as some suggest,would have been an unpleasant dilemma
Capt Ganjoor left behind a family in India too(his son is 45,and daughter a few years younger)
They have moved on,and are doing well.
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Hi Leftseatview,
Many thanks for the info. Very glad indeed that Babu's family in incredible India is doing well.
As for the snake guru, I am sure some guys up in SEL can give a lowdown on his nefarious activities. In some previous threads it was mentioned that he tried conning some folks into joining fast track into Jet Airways for some good sum of money besides undermining Richard's position as B777 supremo in Jet as well. Some alleged that he gave the well respected Leong MY a hard and stressful time in SEL and also trying to fix up others as well. It' s time people come out bravely to expose this pariah for who he is. I read somewhere that a certain Barney Rock has posted in this forum and might have worked in KAL...........well Barney, if you do read this, please check your pm. I have some questions and requests.
Many thanks for the info. Very glad indeed that Babu's family in incredible India is doing well.
As for the snake guru, I am sure some guys up in SEL can give a lowdown on his nefarious activities. In some previous threads it was mentioned that he tried conning some folks into joining fast track into Jet Airways for some good sum of money besides undermining Richard's position as B777 supremo in Jet as well. Some alleged that he gave the well respected Leong MY a hard and stressful time in SEL and also trying to fix up others as well. It' s time people come out bravely to expose this pariah for who he is. I read somewhere that a certain Barney Rock has posted in this forum and might have worked in KAL...........well Barney, if you do read this, please check your pm. I have some questions and requests.