South Asia and Far East WannabesA forum for those applying to Cathay Pacific, Dragonair or any other Hong Kong-based airline or operator. Use this area for both Direct Entry Pilot and Cadet-scheme queries.
Not aspiring. Nor am I a cadet SO but from the transition course. Not that it makes any diff to those who don't want the job anyways. Plus,I actually liked sesame street. I have done my time in the military. So there aren't aspirations or shiny jet 'syndrome' after actually knowing what Mach tuck is first hand. Surprised you are still here CB still contract flying in China?
Hey everyone! Been reading these forums for a week or so now trying to gather all the details and such. I had applied for the CX SO job a couple months back but completely forgot about it till I got a call and email from them last week telling me that I had been invited for the first interview and they sent me a booklet to study. My interview is next month.
Any useful for helpful tips are welcome! I don't have any prior flying experience or knowledge. I am only 23 years old but would love to fly and have already been saving up to get a PPL.
Also please don't start about how this offer sucks etc etc and that what they are offering is not enough to survive in HK because it sure damn well is and I have been living here for 13 years now to know that much. For $8000 you can get a 3 bedroom 700sqft apartment with security and in a proper building.
It looks like at least ainma got a reply. I've submitted my application in 2009, has submitted an update of my resume sometime in 2011, and not even a rejection email. Do you guys know why or what should I do?
Last edited by cloudclimber; 13th Jan 2013 at 15:26.
I have as much right to comment on a public forum offering an opposing or different point of view as those supporting or defending C-Scale.
I find it hard to believe that a then 39 or 40, now 41 year old with the military/flying experience Boxer seems to have shoves him into a polarised position where CX C-Scale is the best option. If that is your true experience then it's a true sad state of affairs that you did not explore the many, many, many other better options that would put you into the RHS of a jet far closer to the UK offering a better salary, better experience, better career progression and hours that actually count toward your (global) future.
How's the contract gig going - GREAT? Still flying a beautiful aircraft all around the globe, getting a tax free salary well and truly in line with the task I perform, great time off and great capacity to retire financially secure. (Keep guessing where though..... The username refers to the CX situation. Nice try but no cigar, not close).
Boxer, those before the iCadetship and C-Scale could also boast of first hand experience of Vmca, Vmcg, torque roll, aft vs forward CoG performance, deep stall, night affect, scalloping, stick fixed or stick free longitudinal stability....even Mach Tuck, and so on, and so on, and so on.... That was no claim to fame back then and shouldn't now. Sad that you're now by far and wide the great exception in your experience and knowledge as opposed to your fellow C-Scalers. During your 3 months in Adelaide (as opposed to the former 4 weeks for DESO's) the lessons on the 1:60 rule must of been enthralling! I can imagine the iCadets ooo'ing and ahhh'ing as they sit around your feet with their warm milk at bed time as you read aloud the pages of your log book.
This thread still has the same theme: those who know about CX and the international airline scene argue against it, those who haven't a clue or seek C-Scale as a good thing & argue to defend their ignorance, those so immature and ignorant ask the same questions (When will CX reply to my application? Does anyone have any tips for my study? What was A or B Scale? How much does it cost to rent in HK? What's an aeroplane? I'm just so passionate but forgot I even applied!!...) But now there's a new stream coming through of those who are living the C-Scale iCadet issue and speaking out after experiencing the truths that have been forewarned by so many for so long.
But then the old theme comes back - shut up if you don't blindly & ignorantly agree with C-Scale and speak out against the lowering of of the profession by way of standards, training and remuneration.
Last edited by ChinaBeached; 14th Jan 2013 at 01:11.
Transition courses are back to 4 weeks. No need to take HK ATPL and back to cadets. iCadets are pretty much closed if u have zero hours due to immigration issues. Hiring pretty much a standstill for 2013 for advanced and transition guys as training slots in 777 and Airbus is set aside for 744 guys coming across.
This thread still has the same theme: those who know about CX and the international airline scene argue against it, those who haven't a clue or seek C-Scale as a good thing & argue to defend their ignorance, those so immature and ignorant ask the same questions
Not exactly true is it China? When you posted something on the main fragrant harbour page plenty of pilots wrote about their understanding of the cadet program as a good opportunity for young people who have an interest in aviation to follow their dreams, to be honest it's only Cpt Underpants and Dan Buster that post in here, not really a broad opinion is it? Boxerpilot has made his choice and seems to be enjoying it, PPRuNe has a reputation of being a place to vent your frustration about Cathay which is why most of the pilots here (cadets included) are not very pro-cathay. Talk to some cadets and pilots in real life and you'll find out that yes, there are some that are not happy with the company because they have done something to them in the past but the vast majority of them are quite happy with the company and their jobs. Sure there are people on here that really do not deserve to even apply because they are so uninterested/lazy but there are also those who deserve to get into a program that is one of the best in the world for realising a dream and getting a pilots job, there are so many pilots that even after their training do not have jobs and when your training is paid for and you get a guaranteed job at the end, who is going to say no?
There are 248 pages of this thread and there are far more people criticising the iCadetship and C-Scale scheme than the 2 (or 3 if you count me). So if you and Gen Y bothered to read the 248 pages (very few pictures, I know) then you'll find far more than 3. Again, it'll take reading, comprehension and perhaps even an open mind to accept another's point of view that is based on experience, knowledge, and credentials.
The entire CX cadetship was set up to promote aviation and a career opportunity in HK for the local HK nationals and residents. Not my words but from the father of the present day scam himself. Go back and read his updates and reports but for perhaps 2 years ago. Since then it has been unashamedly raped into the present day status - but for the Immigration Dept of HK stepping in. Now the new low is accepted by the new low.
My points about the pros and cons of a (for example) 19 year old joining the iCadetship as opposed to going his/her own path and building his/her own loggable hours and therefore in charge of his/her own destiny has been mentioned many times. In fact I received a PM (the last of 3 such people) who thanked me for the time to correspond via PM's with him, which along with others cemented his decision to turn down the CX scam and as a result he is building hours in the RHS of a FAR 25 turboprop. He'll be in the LHS quicker than a kid with a CPL only to his/her name but for sandwich hours in a CX aircraft, and then a better salary, better career and better long term prospect. Not just my words but actual proof.
Others have also taken the time to PM to disagree with my point of view and swap decent conversions. I've been proven wrong on a few occasions regarding the some facts as I saw them at the time and each time accepted the correction. (I think that was somewhere back around page 170 ish of this thread.... But of course, you took the time to read all of them before lampooning an argument as if you had?)
Each person has their own decision to make - I never denied that. What I find laughable is the quick fire response against anyone disagreeing with the C-Scale, mostly from those who are seeking it and little from those doing it. (Once more, read the entire 248 pages, not just the last few.....) Also comical is those who ask for information yet act like a brat who's xBox has failed when the answer is not what he/she wishes to hear.
I can see how the iCadetship can appeal to a wannabe. I do not agree with it for the long term affect it has on one's own career, the pressures it puts on their colleagues' contracts at CX, for the lowest of low standards CX has succumb to due those with experience largely turning down and running away from the insulting offer, and of course the contribution to the lowering of the profession overall. But again, others defend this C-Scale as a good thing and an "opportunity" while those responsible for it are laughing all the way to the bank with their bonuses at your expense.
Without discussion of the iCadetship (much) you still believe that there only 2 or 3 people not happy at CX? Go and have a beer with any group of CX pilots who've been at the airline for longer than 6 years.
There's also a book that went on the best sellers list by a fella called John Warham that also outlines the warm and fuzzy feeling all get who work for CX.... Again, lots of pages, lots of words but a few pictures also! But again, he has "experience, "credentials", and "knowledge" so you are warned - he will have an opinion perhaps not in line with the average head-in-the-sand Cathay-is-so-gosh-darn-it-super-cool C-Scale defender.
So JA, "it's not exactly true, is it?"
PS: Can anyone tell what to study for an interview? I applied to CX last week and they haven't even offered me a Command on a Space Shuttle yet!!
PPS: How many Space Shuttles does CX have, how many engines does it have and what sort are they?
Last edited by ChinaBeached; 14th Jan 2013 at 08:57.
China beached, I think I honestly speak for the majority of people who read this thread - please stop the rhetoric. You may have been on a CX short list once upon a time, but you have never worked here, and thus have only a limited idea to what the job entails.
Please take your anger elsewhere, because this just isn't healthy.
And that's just it.... Anyone not agreeing to the consensus that C-Scale is a good thing, let alone an "opportunity" are told to shut up & go away. My point was challenged & I replied. You seem to think that you're owed an apology from me for that?
I'm 100% sure I speak for the majority of pilots who despise seeing the disgraceful lowering of standards, terms, conditions & remuneration for pilots. The irony is that those who support C-Scale will be the same crying bloody murder very soon down the track in their career & not if but when they think their colleagues should stand up against the downward spiral of their (once) hard fought climb & career.
Many others had been far more confrontational, aggressive & condescending in their defence of C-Scale & the iCadetship yet you don't go after them? It's many months between posts, & you'd refer it were more I'm sure. Then again you still are hoping that the world is flat if it satisfied the agenda so many force to shove that round peg into the square hole to justify their decision.
(For the record, not "short listed" but "offered / asked").
I never claim to know anywhere as much about the job at CX as do those actually working there for several years. I damn-well know immensely more still than the ignorance & immaturity via questions asked on this thread ("What number should I call to reach CX?") But ironically the pilots at CX with the years of CX experience are shouting louder than most against C-Scale & the iCadetship!! But again you all force ill-gotten reasoning in an ignorant attempt to justify what you're contributing to.
I do know what it took once to be offered a job at CX & I know what a pilot's value is worth. Many don't & ignorantly don't care hence they defend the downward spiral of a once proud profession.
Last edited by ChinaBeached; 15th Jan 2013 at 18:32.
CB - Again, you are trying to paint a picture that simply does not exist in the manner in which you are presenting it. Second Officers on local terms ( There is no such thing as C-Scale, it is B scale without an expat housing allowance, it's been around since 1988 - hardly a new pay scale ) are pilots first and foremost and who on earth are you to question their professionalism, by depicting them as starry eyed children looking to fly a space shuttle.
How is an SO joining CX via this route today any different to the entire British Airways 'cadetship' back in the Hamble and Oxford days. Many of those pilots are here at CX today - fantastic trainers, great pilots - and they took an equivalent route into the industry.
You may not agree with a lack of housing - agreed it is harder out in HK without one due to the insane rent prices. BUT this is not the lowering if standards and professionalism.
Even without a housing allowance, a first year SO is paid more by CX then a first year FO at BA, and this trend continues throughout your career at those respective airlines. Yes, the US/Europe/Aus have a cheaper cost of living, so there is more wiggle room, but I just want to put some perspective into this view you have that all new SOs are badly trained pilots, with 'shiny jet syndrome,' as you put it. From my experience they are, in fact, a credit to the industry and the airline.
You delight in telling us that you turned your back on Cathay and have moved on, yet you seem unable to do the same with a CX forum regarding the job. Please, a simple 'no thanks, it wasn't for me' would suffice, rather than giving your distorted, misinformed and downright incorrect and insulting views of Cathay, Hong Kong and low hours pilots who have also worked incredibly hard to get here. Again take your anger elsewhere, as we're all tired of it. Good day.