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Old 14th Mar 2014, 12:45   #3221 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2010
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If the routing IGARI-VAMPI-GIVAL-IGREX is indeed correct, we're looking at a routing that is NOT following any high altitude airways. At 450kts GSP, this routing would have taken 1.5h, this another 2.5h short of when the pings ended. And at FL295? This is looking more and more like a deliberate action to me.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 12:46   #3222 (permalink)
 
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Oyviv:
Quote
I just don't see that many suspicious sleepers in the passenger list.
Unquote

I thought there was a confirmed Chinese Uigher on board, from the same minority group that includes some terrorist activists who (apparently) murdered 29 at a train station in China a fortnight ago?
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 12:48   #3223 (permalink)
 
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Seriously I have been reading this thread over the last few days and really with those that are so hung up on the whole flight sim issue I must say I'm quite disappointed.
I know a lot of professional pilots who use or have built flight sims at home, some due to passion of flying and some just to practice emergency procedures and approaches on the types they fly if they are feeling a little rusty.

The fact he has a home built sim really has nothing to do with the issue.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 12:50   #3224 (permalink)
 
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Pings

From WSJ, not clear if pings did actually transmit data or were just pinging. Data would have included altitude, heading, speed etc if actually received.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 12:52   #3225 (permalink)
 
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Not sure if this post will stay but I have a question I'd like to ask: How are the professional pilots taking this ongoing story? Is it all that's talked about? Does the not-knowing make you nervous when you turn up for work? As a non-pilot I can hardly begin to image how un-nerving this occurrence must be and I am curious as to how you deal with this on a daily basis
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 12:56   #3226 (permalink)
 
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Xyze
Quote:
Mention has been made that although the flight was not full (with 50 or more unoccupied seats) there were passengers who flew standby. The reason given for this in this thread was that cargo uplift may have limited passenger capacity.

Question - how often does routine cargo on a passenger flight displace this much passenger uplift capacity?

If it was revealed that the cargo included a heavy valuable substance weighing as much as 50 passengers and their baggage, how many reading this thread would change their mind as to likely cause?
50 pax at 75kgs (just an approximation of average weight) each plus 20kgs baggage would be a possible 4750kgs of freight. 1kg gold is currently about 27,000 GBP. Of course we have no idea what the freight was or whether it had any bearing on this ongoing mystery
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 12:56   #3227 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
From WSJ, not clear if pings did actually transmit data or were just pinging. Data would have included altitude, heading, speed etc if actually received.
There remains the possibility that data was triangulated using Spook sats. If so, they aren't going to divulge anything further. We will know whether there is anything to it within the next 24 hours if they locate the site. Or not.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 13:00   #3228 (permalink)
 
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oyviv

As a retired senior detective and AVSEC specialist, I laugh when somebody says they can't spot too many, sleepers in the PAX manifest.

If it were as easy to catch hijackers by reading down the PAX manifest, we'd catch them all easily.

Hijackers don't necessarily have the same profile as your average terrorist. Why? Because not all hijackers are terrorists.

As for the crew, the captain and first officer have nothing, it seems, in common. There is a large age gap. There is a large disparity in experience. One appears to be a man dedicated to his job, the other a bit of a playboy (if earlier reports are at all accurate).

And no one planning this type of op would have drawn attention to himself by publicizing that he had a fairly good mock simulator in his house.

If the aircraft has been nicked, its more likely to be via hijacking.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 13:05   #3229 (permalink)
 
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Then why FL295? Because they were possibly transiting an area where the Quadrangal rule is in effect and they wanted to be sure that they didn't hit anything coming the other way, because this is in effect up to FL290 (see the Malaysian AIP). So why not fly at FL355? Possible because other planes flying at FL340 - 360 could see them pass relatively close under them and advise ATC of a "near miss"?
What is the source of FL295 as the altitude? If it is from primary radar, keep in mind that the altitude will be quite approximate, and that it will be in geometric altitude (like you would measure with a tape measure). Aircraft cruise altitudes are barometric altitudes, based on measuring air pressure and converting to altitude, assuming that the air pressure vs altitude is the same as the Standard Atmosphere. But, in the real world, with variations of air temperature and local atmospheric pressure, the relationship between barometric altitude and geometric altitude can easily vary by 1000 or 2000 ft at high altitude.

So, a report of FL295 from primary radar could easily be an aircraft cruising at FL280, FL290, FL300 or FL310 based on its barometric altimeter.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 13:11   #3230 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Does the not-knowing make you nervous when you turn up for work?
Personally no. I don't want to sound as if I'm callous or unsympathetic for the plight of the relatives, that's not the case and I'd like to know what happened but no two flights/accidents are the same and my job is to prevent another one from happening, not worrying about one I have no influence over.

Quote:
I am curious as to how you deal with this on a daily basis
TBH it's report for work as normal, get airborne, probably spend some of the time in the cruise talking about the accident and having a special chuckle about some of the theories in this place.....pretty much a routine day at the office.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 13:11   #3231 (permalink)
 
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FL295 was confirmed by the RMAF Chief.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 13:13   #3232 (permalink)
 
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So the captain builds and flies an advanced sim on his off days instead of going to the mosque 5 times a day - and HE is the suspect one!!?? Get real!

It's been 2000 posts since I last contributed, and whereas I truely appreciate the input from fellow professionals, from the aviation industry and others, I can't help but being angered by those writing here with the only purpose of satisfying their own curiosity and/or writing mindless nonsense. GO AWAY! Find another forum. Or stay. Read.. And learn.

Last edited by ekpilot; 14th Mar 2014 at 13:14. Reason: typo
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 13:17   #3233 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
As a retired senior detective and AVSEC specialist, I laugh when somebody says they can't spot too many, sleepers in the PAX manifest.

If it were as easy to catch hijackers by reading down the PAX manifest, we'd catch them all easily.

Hijackers don't necessarily have the same profile as your average terrorist. Why? Because not all hijackers are terrorists.

As for the crew, the captain and first officer have nothing, it seems, in common. There is a large age gap. There is a large disparity in experience. One appears to be a man dedicated to his job, the other a bit of a playboy (if earlier reports are at all accurate).

And no one planning this type of op would have drawn attention to himself by publicizing that he had a fairly good mock simulator in his house.

If the aircraft has been nicked, its more likely to be via hijacking.
As a retired senior detective are you satisfied that there is no reason the search the Pilot's homes?

Or would you prefer to help eliminate them from the enquiry by checking for any evidence?
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 13:18   #3234 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
but no two flights/accidents are the same and my job is to prevent another one from happening, not worrying about one I have no influence over.
+1


Also. I am taking Cockpit Entry Procedures a bit more seriously at the moment!
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 13:19   #3235 (permalink)
 
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This seems a very clever job. Disappear at handover, change route a couple of times. Disable all communications.

The Malaysians and the US for sure know more than willing to tell the public. Too many smokescreens and confirm/unconfirms of leads. I am pretty sure those satellite images released by error by a Chinese state agency was another smoke screen to win time.

911 has proven the capabilities of Taliban. They know about aircraft. They never claimed the attacks.

What about hijacking the plane to a Taliban controlled area in Pakistan?
Or more likely just ditch the aircraft in a part of the Indian Ocean being certain it will be hard if not impossible to find?
Or was it heading for Karachi or a city in India and shot down?

Most passengers were Chinese. Uighur/Taliban terrorist attack?

Last edited by 1stspotter; 14th Mar 2014 at 13:37.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 13:19   #3236 (permalink)
 
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so annoying to see these posts about the Capt and his flight sim hobby. What the heck! We fly airplane, love airplane (for most) and many of us have flight sim as a hobby. All these non-aviation people fishing for stuff on here need to use their brain a tiny bit: he's already a T7 captain, he doesn't need a home flight sim to learn how to hijack his own flight.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 13:20   #3237 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
According to Shah's friends, he knew the ins and the outs of the Boeing 777 extremely well as he was always practising with a flight simulator of the plane he had set up at his home, Reuters reported.
The fact of a commercial pilot with 18000 hrs having a flight simulator set up at home is VERY VERY suspicious indeed. Sure, some of us airline pilots fly small planes on days off, but flying a 777 computer flight simulator in your spare time is unheard of in my experience and highly unusual. Apart from flying line trips, there are also the twice annual obligatory commercial simulator rides, very few pilots - if any - would have the desire to then also fly from home in some sort of low-fidelity set up, unless you were testing out certain dodgy scenario's.....

Quote:
We fly airplane, love airplane (for most)
unusual for pilot with 18000 hrs, for many above 10000 hrs or so the fun fades and it really becomes more of a job. Ever heard of any pilots asking crewing for more flying rather than less? Didn't think so.

Last edited by Comanche; 14th Mar 2014 at 13:23. Reason: reply posted while writing
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 13:21   #3238 (permalink)
 
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Evey_Hammond

Quote:
How are the professional pilots taking this ongoing story? Is it all that's talked about? Does the not-knowing make you nervous when you turn up for work? As a non-pilot I can hardly begin to image how un-nerving this occurrence must be and I am curious as to how you deal with this on a daily basis
Your answer lies in the word I have highlighted.

I'd say that although it will be a topic for discussion and much speculation, it will be business as usual.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 13:21   #3239 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
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Its not a crime to have a flight sim

For the love of god, pilots have flight sims,

i am a simply student pilot and i use my flight sim day in a day out practicing and refreshing on procedures and at $700 a nav flight its smarter to practice my navigation on a flight sim with my ipad

how do you think a Airline pilot practices? i wonder what the going rate for a 777 per hour is

i practice aproaches and even emergency situations so that i am ready for when the worst happens "excluding the wings falling off of couse"

it is very common place for any pilot to have a flight sim

drop the nonsence
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 13:22   #3240 (permalink)

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@Brika

The way I understand it, the way the logic works is like this:

If (engines running) then {
Every half hour {
Get (time, direction, speed, altitude);
If (engine event) then Get (engine status);
Get (other information);
Ping (time, direction, speed, altitude, engine status, other information) to recipients;
}
}

But, because the engine status and other information reports have been switched off, what was actually happening was:

If (engines running) then {
Every half hour {
Get (time, direction, speed, altitude);
Ping (time, direction, speed, altitude) to recipients;
}
}

On reception by Rolls Royce, this ping is automatically detected as null information and is therefore filtered out, probably with no record.

The ping with time, direction, speed, altitude comes from a source other than Rolls Royce.

What we know as a consequence of the US analysis is the location at the last ping, its then current time, direction, speed, altitude and when the engines were switched off.

There appears to be a gap in time between the last way-station and the reported engine off time. This is because the way-station is in the middle of the ocean. Hence, this does not tell us much.

Question: if the routing had been maintained after the last way-station passed, what would be the identity of the next way-station and when would it have been passed?
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