Quote: Is this the disease of the day? To demand a fast track to everything, without putting forth even 20% of the time and effort that the previous generation had to struggle through, whilst simultaneously demanding the same pay + adjustments?
Is this the disease of the day? To demand a fast track to everything, without putting forth even 20% of the time and effort that the previous generation had to struggle through, whilst simultaneously demanding the same pay + adjustments?
A question then. What age were the captains who retired in order to make way for the hiring and upgrade of the "previous generation" who feel so entitled to 5 years of this generations advancement and employment opportunity?
The original retirement age for airline pilots in both the USA and the UK was 65 until sometime in the late seventies or early eighties when it was arbitrarily changed to 60 without any consultation with the workforce. In the USA it was said that the then CEO of AA wanted rid of the older guys on high salary and pensions etc. and a friend in the FAA obliged, don't know how true that is.
In the UK it was just a statement issued overnight, done deal. I was obliged to retire from a very good airline job at the age of 60 and I resent it very much. Probably wouldn't have gone to sixty five but a couple or three more years would have been good. I think 70 is pushing it a bit too far, but 65 is just getting back to the original 'normal' retiring age.
How good are the quacks after all at finding the hidden weakness that is ready to incapacitate without warning? Seems to me that if you survive past 60 you probably have been taking good care of yourself, diet, exercise, no beer belly, etc etc.
Anyway, my AME agrees that women last longer than men by aprox 10 years, so women should be allowed 10 extra years on the flight deck........
But all the major airlines already had company-imposed age limits of 60. The FAA just codified them into regulation.
I certainly understand your resentment. But understand that EVERY step in your career - the day you were hired, the day you upgraded, the day you went to the widebodies - happened five years earlier for you because of the old law.
Would you honestly choose to have your entire career timeline slid five years to the right?
So how old were you when you made left seat, then? I'll be fifty....
I was fifty before I got the left seat in a major. I was 27 when I got the call From American. The interview was canceled due to the Oil Embargo. I was assured that I would be called when the hiring started again. I wasn't. Did you know that the majors wouldn't hire anyone over 31? It was a very long time to the DL left seat, and I got there purely due to luck. Right place-right time. In 1977 I was too old to get hired. In 2006 I was too old to fly. Just think Huck; if it goes to age 70, you have 20 years in the left seat.
The group that is PIC now is the exceptionally lucky group that will get 5 more years of PIC time. No one got it before them, no one (including me) will get it after them.
But all the major airlines already had company-imposed age limits of 60. The FAA just codified them into regulation.
I certainly understand your resentment. But understand that EVERY step in your career - the day you were hired, the day you upgraded, the day you went to the widebodies - happened five years earlier for you because of the old law.
Three ALPA represented airlines imposed the age 60 retirement. Prior to that there was no retirement age mandated. ALPA took the issue to arbitration, and Won! C.R. Smith, CEO of American took his problem to Gen. Pete Quesada ret., the first Administator to the new FAA. General Quesada fixed his problem. Gen. Quesada was rewarded with a position of the Board of American after he left the FAA.
Where did you come up with that rubbish. I was and still have an ATP and I'm north of of age 60. I have also added two type ratings in the last three years.
Sorry, I live in Canada, and I just assumed it was licensing. Can you please explain why the FAA won't allow anyone over 65 (was 60) to fly large airliners.
Here is the present FAA limitation from 14 CFR 61.3(j):
Quote:
(j) Age limitation for certain operations
(1) Age limitation. No person who holds a pilot certificate issued under this part may serve as a pilot on a civil airplane of U.S. registry in the following operations if the person has reached his or her 65th birthday:
(i) Scheduled international air services carrying passengers in turbojet-powered airplanes;
(ii) Scheduled international air services carrying passengers in airplanes having a passenger-seat configuration of more than nine passenger seats, excluding each crewmember seat;
(iii) Nonscheduled international air transportation for compensation or hire in airplanes having a passenger-seat configuration of more than 30 passenger seats, excluding each crewmember seat; or
(iv) Scheduled international air services, or nonscheduled international air transportation for compensation or hire, in airplanes having a payload capacity of more than 7,500 pounds.
This is a specific Part 121 / 135 rule. There is nothing to keep you from flying a B747 at age 65+ if you are a Part 91 or Part 125 operator. The French might give you some grief on the 125, but the fact is you can continue flying until your 100+ if your not doing it under 121/135 Ops.
I for one would love to continue to fly until I am unable to do so. If you are in a situation where you need a Captain to retire to see an upgrade then I would suggest looking for another career.
I spent years as an FO and never compalined about the crappy pay. I went and got another job and ran that small business to support my family and to continued to fly until I was able to hold a leftseat.
I bet you whiny one's are a real pleasure to fly with....and hope I never need to do so!
On a side note: If the old fart does die...you strap him in and continue to fly single pilot.....but maybe that is the real fear! Not having the experience to do it on your own in the right seat. Trust me, what I see from the leftseat, I understand why the passengers might not agree to be left alone with today's average first officer.
70, are you guys kidding? Who would ride in a plane flown geriatrics?
I would. If he meets all the other requirements to keep his license, including the draconian first-class medical (which is already excessively stringent), I have no problem at all with him flying at age 70 (or even 80). Age isn't important. Health, experience, and attitude (not necessarily in that order) are all very important.
It saddens me that there are pilots so unhappy with their jobs that they cannot wait to retire. And it saddens me even more to think that arbitrary age limits destroy the careers of pilots who happen to love flying. Age is not a barrier to being a competent pilot, so why should someone who lives to fly be forced to abandon it all and sit watching television for the rest of his life just because he's past a certain age?
