Air India Express B738 crash
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Hope these have not been posted earlier
The Right Aft section of the fuselage being removed from the site. Just behind you can see the nose section with the Nose wheel Well, Forward E&E bay and a more or less intact Radome. Sad to think that two colleagues died there in the line of duty.
Various equipment from the E&E bay. Almost every equipment is untouched by the fire. Just behind the guy one can see the Throttle Quadrant. I just hope they decode the DFDR fast.
The Right Aft section of the fuselage being removed from the site. Just behind you can see the nose section with the Nose wheel Well, Forward E&E bay and a more or less intact Radome. Sad to think that two colleagues died there in the line of duty.
Various equipment from the E&E bay. Almost every equipment is untouched by the fire. Just behind the guy one can see the Throttle Quadrant. I just hope they decode the DFDR fast.
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Hey iflytb20,
Great pics man.Where on earth did u manage to get them from.I heard from some of my sources that maybe the FO was flying the leg.Isnt this a captains only field?ANd by the way,are you by any chance associated wit AIE.Since you know so much about their ops....thanks
Great pics man.Where on earth did u manage to get them from.I heard from some of my sources that maybe the FO was flying the leg.Isnt this a captains only field?ANd by the way,are you by any chance associated wit AIE.Since you know so much about their ops....thanks
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Also....is there any way at all of ascertaining whether is was a Lhs or Rhs landing...?? I mean by the dfdr's etc and the cvr channels maybe...??
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de facto -
So please this above statement is purely nonsense.
Know your regs,aircraft and company ops and you will with time realize it.
So please this above statement is purely nonsense.
Know your regs,aircraft and company ops and you will with time realize it.
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Originally Posted by Flaperon777
Great pics man.Where on earth did u manage to get them from.
I heard from some of my sources that maybe the FO was flying the leg.Isnt this a captains only field?
ANd by the way,are you by any chance associated wit AIE.Since you know so much about their ops....thanks
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until recently, it was not uncommon in the US to have copilots that were as experienced (in terms of flying time) as the captain. Indeed, Sully's copilot (on the miracle landing in the hudson) had MORE flying time (total time) than Sully did (...now what was his name...oh yeah, stiles).
But in other parts of the world, passengers are not that lucky. copilots are copilots in virtual name only.
ouch
But in other parts of the world, passengers are not that lucky. copilots are copilots in virtual name only.
ouch
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@cross check
very sobre and informed comment i must say
most threads are jus totally mis informed or blanket condemnation of certain individuals, race or organizations yet we are the proffessionals who are most informed n widely travelled hence should have a broader scope of lookin at issues not tunnell visioned and myopic as most people on this thread are
very sobre and informed comment i must saymost threads are jus totally mis informed or blanket condemnation of certain individuals, race or organizations yet we are the proffessionals who are most informed n widely travelled hence should have a broader scope of lookin at issues not tunnell visioned and myopic as most people on this thread are
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I flew for AIE 2005-6 and can confirm that it was a dangerous outfit and a crash waiting to happen.They didnt understand flying and the guy in charge was a 777 pilot who knew nothing and cared even less of the 73 operation.They used the QAR unethically,busted FTL's and indulged in nepotism/favoritism even when it came to passing checks etc.
Like someone said already,as with all ASIAN carriers it was strictly rote flying;AP ON at 500 on TO,SOP call-outs verbatim(the be-all and end-all of their entire operation),AP OFF and AT disarm @ 500 on landing.No visual approaches(or maybe the type with AP and LNAV engaged!),magenta line monkey-see monkey-do flying.I remember they called a chap in after downloading the QAR for hand-flying without FD and warned him.I heard after I left that they started to tire of EURO-Yank expats and so brought in a whole bunch of Yugoslavs who were "easier" to mould to their way of thinking.GA's were ASR-mandatory.So is it any wonder that it all ended in a smoking wreck at the end of Mangalore runway?The real dilemna here is that there must be a a hundred AIE's operating around the world and the only thing that saves them from a smoking hole in the ground each and every week is the robustness and reliability of Boeing/Airbus products.Plus the fact that they practically fly by themselves and dont really need pilots up front but just 2 pavlov dogs..or better still,2 monkeys.Passing x feet,press that button there,passing y feet operate this switch here...
Like someone said already,as with all ASIAN carriers it was strictly rote flying;AP ON at 500 on TO,SOP call-outs verbatim(the be-all and end-all of their entire operation),AP OFF and AT disarm @ 500 on landing.No visual approaches(or maybe the type with AP and LNAV engaged!),magenta line monkey-see monkey-do flying.I remember they called a chap in after downloading the QAR for hand-flying without FD and warned him.I heard after I left that they started to tire of EURO-Yank expats and so brought in a whole bunch of Yugoslavs who were "easier" to mould to their way of thinking.GA's were ASR-mandatory.So is it any wonder that it all ended in a smoking wreck at the end of Mangalore runway?The real dilemna here is that there must be a a hundred AIE's operating around the world and the only thing that saves them from a smoking hole in the ground each and every week is the robustness and reliability of Boeing/Airbus products.Plus the fact that they practically fly by themselves and dont really need pilots up front but just 2 pavlov dogs..or better still,2 monkeys.Passing x feet,press that button there,passing y feet operate this switch here...
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And given the discouragement doled out by some managements to their crews over visual approaches, raw data flying, indeed anything other than A/P & AFDS opertions here in Europe, how long do you think before this standard of opertioning is the norm here? The current crop of newbies will be captains after 3000hrs in one blinkered outfit. They know nothing else and believe verbatum what they've had rammed onto their empty data bases. They then pass this on to the next generation of newbies. Their basic knowledge and handling skills will be rock bottom and spiraling ver downwards. There have been loads of commenst here about this trand. I don't wish to rehash that, but you commented that this was the world in AIE. Europe is not very far from it in the near future. There is a belief that costs will be reduced and safety improved if George does more. The more reliable it seems to be the more passive the pilot becomes. Perhaps piloting will improve if there are more failures and less back-ups. Keep you more awake that's for sure.
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If you are referring to a certain lo-co with 200+ of the same type as this accident I hate to say it but I agree with you.
An S.O.P. for every eventuality will cure all, if not ? well write another FCI and all will be fine.
A number of their incidents in the last 6 years,with a little bit of inquisitive thinking added for good measure, can show pretty clearly where it is going.
An S.O.P. for every eventuality will cure all, if not ? well write another FCI and all will be fine.
A number of their incidents in the last 6 years,with a little bit of inquisitive thinking added for good measure, can show pretty clearly where it is going.
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Accident site
Flew over the site yesterday, as Rwy 6 was in use.
The vast damage to the surrounding terrain & forest and the huge scar down the side of the hill to main wreckage would seem to indicate very high energy.
This could have been the result of a rejected landing, that never got airborne, OR a very high speed runway over-run.
Even at an est. ldg wt of 65tons, there seems to be enough airfield & natural obstacles to arrest the aircraft from the extent of its actual excursion, if the speed was 'say' 60 kts.
Just my observation...
Tragic,
RIP.
The vast damage to the surrounding terrain & forest and the huge scar down the side of the hill to main wreckage would seem to indicate very high energy.
This could have been the result of a rejected landing, that never got airborne, OR a very high speed runway over-run.
Even at an est. ldg wt of 65tons, there seems to be enough airfield & natural obstacles to arrest the aircraft from the extent of its actual excursion, if the speed was 'say' 60 kts.
Just my observation...
Tragic,
RIP.
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Mangalore crash: Captain ignored co-pilot's plea to abort landing
Saurabh Sinha, TNN, May 31, 2010, 01.15am IST
NEW DELHI: The horrific Air India Express crash in Mangalore on May 22 that killed 158 people could have possibly been averted had the expat commander heeded his Indian co-pilot's advice. Records of the conversation between the pilots and ATC has shown that co-pilot H S Ahluwalia more than once urged Captain Zlatko Glusica not to land and instead go around.
Importantly, Ahluwalia's warning had come well before the aircraft had descended below decision height - the critical level at or before which a final decision on whether to land or go around is to be taken - said highly placed sources. Ahluwalia, who was based in Mangalore and had landed there 66 times, voiced his concern when the aircraft was about 800 feet high, they added.
"Ahluwalia warned at least twice against landing and urged his commander to go around. He had probably realized the aircraft was either too fast or too high on approach - indicating unstable approach - and would not be able to stop safely on the table-top Mangalore runway. In such situations, going around is a standard operating procedure which enables the aircraft to land safely in second attempt," said a source at ATC. The aircraft (IX 812) was coming from Dubai.
But the warning went in vain and the aircraft did not go around. It landed, only to crash and fall off the cliff from this table-top runway. The latest revelation only confirms Ahluwalia's excellent knowledge of the local runway condition. The co-pilot lived in the city. He was due for commandership later in May.
The International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) has guidelines for cockpit resource management (CRM) that makes it mandatory for commanders to listen to their comparatively less experienced co-pilots as they may also have something valid to say. According to industry sources, CRM training is very strong in Jet Airways, where Ahluwalia had served earlier. "This is the backbone of Jet and this training would have made Ahluwalia call out very strongly," said sources.
Authorities are now pinning their hopes on details from the cockpit voice recorder (CVR) and flight data recorder (black box) to know what exactly transpired inside the cockpit in the final moments. More importantly, they now want to know what made Ahluwalia give the warning for a go-around and why the commander did still went ahead to land. But the CVR and black box have got substantially damaged and may have to be sent to the manufacturer (Boeing) in US for decoding...
Saurabh Sinha, TNN, May 31, 2010, 01.15am IST
NEW DELHI: The horrific Air India Express crash in Mangalore on May 22 that killed 158 people could have possibly been averted had the expat commander heeded his Indian co-pilot's advice. Records of the conversation between the pilots and ATC has shown that co-pilot H S Ahluwalia more than once urged Captain Zlatko Glusica not to land and instead go around.
Importantly, Ahluwalia's warning had come well before the aircraft had descended below decision height - the critical level at or before which a final decision on whether to land or go around is to be taken - said highly placed sources. Ahluwalia, who was based in Mangalore and had landed there 66 times, voiced his concern when the aircraft was about 800 feet high, they added.
"Ahluwalia warned at least twice against landing and urged his commander to go around. He had probably realized the aircraft was either too fast or too high on approach - indicating unstable approach - and would not be able to stop safely on the table-top Mangalore runway. In such situations, going around is a standard operating procedure which enables the aircraft to land safely in second attempt," said a source at ATC. The aircraft (IX 812) was coming from Dubai.
But the warning went in vain and the aircraft did not go around. It landed, only to crash and fall off the cliff from this table-top runway. The latest revelation only confirms Ahluwalia's excellent knowledge of the local runway condition. The co-pilot lived in the city. He was due for commandership later in May.
The International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) has guidelines for cockpit resource management (CRM) that makes it mandatory for commanders to listen to their comparatively less experienced co-pilots as they may also have something valid to say. According to industry sources, CRM training is very strong in Jet Airways, where Ahluwalia had served earlier. "This is the backbone of Jet and this training would have made Ahluwalia call out very strongly," said sources.
Authorities are now pinning their hopes on details from the cockpit voice recorder (CVR) and flight data recorder (black box) to know what exactly transpired inside the cockpit in the final moments. More importantly, they now want to know what made Ahluwalia give the warning for a go-around and why the commander did still went ahead to land. But the CVR and black box have got substantially damaged and may have to be sent to the manufacturer (Boeing) in US for decoding...
From ATC records?