Enstrom Corner
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The collective should not pop up when the friction is released. It should be set up so that the spring capsule is 'over centre'. The manual tells you where to measure and how much. At rest, the lever should stay where you put it for approx the first inch or so of travel and then spring up with force. At normal RPM it should stay where you put it with no friction. If not it's adjusted wrong. If it wanders up there is too much spring pressure and the capsule should be unscewed. Make sure you are turning it the right way. From your descripion I think you might have increased the pressure if no threads are showing. Make sure it doesnt come apart. That would be really bad.
Ive just got bdkd back in the air and had a similar problem on the first flight. The anwser is you need 'more over centre' ie. the collective moves more before the spring kicks in. This makes a heck of a difference and the balance between over centre adjustment and spring strength is a fine balance.
Agreed. It's horrible with too much up pressure.
Ive just got bdkd back in the air and had a similar problem on the first flight. The anwser is you need 'more over centre' ie. the collective moves more before the spring kicks in. This makes a heck of a difference and the balance between over centre adjustment and spring strength is a fine balance.
Agreed. It's horrible with too much up pressure.
Last edited by Gaseous; 19th May 2014 at 09:19. Reason: Updated info
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I learned in G-SHRK owned by Vanguard helicopters with their CFI who nearly killed me due to running out of fuel... The collective on this machine used to raise itself while in flight and the pressure needed to hold it down was quite significant. I had to jump ship to another type and another Flying School because of the lies and problems I had with Vangaurd. All in all, this particular machine was underpowered as it was a non turbo downgraded aircraft, the owner of the company refused to finish off my training after I had reached 35 of my 45 hrs needed.
Also to ad insult to injury the company lied on the MOR supplied to the CAA for the running out of fuel saying that it was a fuel starvation problem due to a malfunctioned part....
Also to ad insult to injury the company lied on the MOR supplied to the CAA for the running out of fuel saying that it was a fuel starvation problem due to a malfunctioned part....
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with their CFI who nearly killed me due to running out of fuel
If ever I could choose which type to run out of fuel in, it would be an Enstrom.
http://www.pprune.org/4828942-post253.html
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Chopjock.
Running out of fuel is a big deal, even in an Enstrom. G-BAAU for instance. Ask the owner!
Have a look at the other Enstrom thread G-OJMF. I'm not saying it ran out of fuel although its a possibility. It almost certainly autorotated into the forest. Would you want to land there because of a basic stupid error?
see Bild 15073 « Tödlicher Hubschrauberabsturz in Kirchham
Dont run out of fuel!
Running out of fuel is a big deal, even in an Enstrom. G-BAAU for instance. Ask the owner!
Have a look at the other Enstrom thread G-OJMF. I'm not saying it ran out of fuel although its a possibility. It almost certainly autorotated into the forest. Would you want to land there because of a basic stupid error?
see Bild 15073 « Tödlicher Hubschrauberabsturz in Kirchham
Dont run out of fuel!
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Well I had fuel starvation on my first flight as owner, but fortunately it was only 3 feet off the ground and pretty much a non-event regards to the autorotation, but I wouldn't want to have to choose a landing spot because I have to. My faith would be at its greatest strength about then. I have to say I really appreciate Bayard Dupont at Enstrom. He has been an excellent resource for all my issues. Regarding the collective trim he has confirmed that the adjustment was way off, thanks JL the A&P, again. He apparently didn't have a clue.
Here is what Bayard told me:
The collectively will pop up when the blades are not up to RPM as the spring is to off set the downwards forces of the blades during flight. When the blades aren't turning, the forces aren't there so the collective jumps up.
That said, the proper way to adjust it is to turn the link rod until the bell crank just goes over center. The collective should just stay down (doesn't work if you have a throttle correlator).
Then hover the helicopter and adjust the spring capsule so the force to pull the collective up is the same as to push it down
I recommend you start by adjusting the tie rod so there are about 1/2 of threads showing and the capsule so the threads are about even at the top and bottom. Then adjust the tie rod until the collective will stay down on its own by a little bit.
Then fly it. Hover and pull straight up about 15.feet, pause and push down.
Adjust the capsule so that the up and down forces you have to exert are the same.
Let me know how you make out.
Best regards,
Pierre duPont by Windows Phone
(M) 9203710982
bdupont,@enstromhelicopter.com
Here is what Bayard told me:
The collectively will pop up when the blades are not up to RPM as the spring is to off set the downwards forces of the blades during flight. When the blades aren't turning, the forces aren't there so the collective jumps up.
That said, the proper way to adjust it is to turn the link rod until the bell crank just goes over center. The collective should just stay down (doesn't work if you have a throttle correlator).
Then hover the helicopter and adjust the spring capsule so the force to pull the collective up is the same as to push it down
I recommend you start by adjusting the tie rod so there are about 1/2 of threads showing and the capsule so the threads are about even at the top and bottom. Then adjust the tie rod until the collective will stay down on its own by a little bit.
Then fly it. Hover and pull straight up about 15.feet, pause and push down.
Adjust the capsule so that the up and down forces you have to exert are the same.
Let me know how you make out.
Best regards,
Pierre duPont by Windows Phone
(M) 9203710982
bdupont,@enstromhelicopter.com
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I don't have a dog in the fight of talking about A&P issues with the Enstrom, only had one issue with an F28F. Did all of my training in one. The thing I do agree with is the previous ops comment about Bayard Dupont. I have spent time with him twice now and he is clearly the most knowledgeable person in the world about their airframes and probably every single problem that anyone has ever has with one of their airframes.
Makes me wonder, with the departure this year of Jerry, how far behind Bayard is from retirement. That will leave a massive knowledge base hole at Enstrom, although from what I see of Bayard, I bet he is sharing as much of his knowledge as possible within the company with hopes that someone can step into his very large shoes to fill.
Makes me wonder, with the departure this year of Jerry, how far behind Bayard is from retirement. That will leave a massive knowledge base hole at Enstrom, although from what I see of Bayard, I bet he is sharing as much of his knowledge as possible within the company with hopes that someone can step into his very large shoes to fill.
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He seems to be quite busy traveling all over the world. If he does go I hope he stays reachable. Our community is really small and unique. My experience tells me no just any A&P will suffice. I'm learning as much as I can to double check my A&P. I would think it should be the other way around.
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He may still have many good years in him, purely speculating on any retirement. I do have some good A&P connections in Indiana for Enstrom's though if you ever get stuck on something. All who have benefitted from years of Bayards great tutelidge.
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Another question for you fine experienced Enstrom folk. 1977 280C. I am finding as the temperatures increase around here if I fly slow for surveillance or other need to slow down I find my oil temperature increasing. It isn't going beyond max, but my JPI screams at me, starts flashing, starting at about 230. Once I speed up it starts decreasing, but I'm concerned with thermal runaway or something. Is it because I may be leaning too agressively, 1530-1570 TIT, or just because I'm not getting enough fresh air through the intake? What is your experience and do you have any recommendations? I see in the logs they removed a secondary oil cooler. I wonder if that is a solution to reinstall it. If not I guess I have to limit my low and slow or slow orbits.
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LV,
First check the ducting to the oil cooler. If you hover over freshly cut grass, I have found that they tend to collect a bit of it. As for the aux oil cooler, as far as i am concerned, it should be a mandatory item for the turboed models as the oil temps will run higher in the turbocharged engines. for those who also operate in areas where temperatures can be on the cool side during the winter, you can put a small damper over a small portion of the oil cooler to help warm up the oil.
First check the ducting to the oil cooler. If you hover over freshly cut grass, I have found that they tend to collect a bit of it. As for the aux oil cooler, as far as i am concerned, it should be a mandatory item for the turboed models as the oil temps will run higher in the turbocharged engines. for those who also operate in areas where temperatures can be on the cool side during the winter, you can put a small damper over a small portion of the oil cooler to help warm up the oil.
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Thanks for the reply. Can't see any blockages looking into the cooler. Is there somewhere else I should be looking. I can't understand why they would remove the auxiliary cooler. Just dumb.
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I don't think the 280C came fitted with two coolers. We have retrofitted one to a 280C in the past. It is a lack of cooling power and slow speed that is causing your problem.
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Is there a preferred method to clean the oil cooler to make it efficient as possible? There is a round access hole in the ducting that I removed and there wasn't anything piled in there, but when I put light behind it I can't see the light completely through the fins. I assume if there is an accumulation of dirt on the fins it wouldn't be efficient.
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You can get oil coolers overhauled or just get a replacement. From memory they are on condition and not changed when the engine is overhauled. Like everything they age.
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Lvlflyer,
Try some compressed air to blast out any crud stuck in the cooler fins. That has always helped drop the temps for me. You should also enrich the mixture when you need a higher power setting for longer periods of time (extended hovering, climbing, or slow orbit). In cooler temps, you will be primarily limited by EGT. At higher temps / DA, CHT and oil will be your limiting factors. On 100° days in Colorado pushing 10,000' DA, I'll be as rich as 1400-1450 TIT. That's below the optimum power range for the engine, and you're further limited by reduced aerodynamic performance from higher DA, but necessary to be kind to the engine. Performance drops off sharply with rising density altitude...
-JMc
Try some compressed air to blast out any crud stuck in the cooler fins. That has always helped drop the temps for me. You should also enrich the mixture when you need a higher power setting for longer periods of time (extended hovering, climbing, or slow orbit). In cooler temps, you will be primarily limited by EGT. At higher temps / DA, CHT and oil will be your limiting factors. On 100° days in Colorado pushing 10,000' DA, I'll be as rich as 1400-1450 TIT. That's below the optimum power range for the engine, and you're further limited by reduced aerodynamic performance from higher DA, but necessary to be kind to the engine. Performance drops off sharply with rising density altitude...
-JMc
Last edited by CO280fx; 4th Jun 2014 at 20:03. Reason: cell phone typos
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Thanks that is kind of what I figured. More fuel is cooling just like my Mooney on steep climbs in hot temps. I did blow it out and not too much crud in there. So must have been just a little too lean. I've never leaned beyond 1570 in any configuration. Do you lean more than that?
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Lean temp
RFM says 1650* max but I wouldn't deliberately run it up that high unless you REALLY needed to squeeze out a long flight. Cold winter mornings I'll run 1590, maybe just a psychological block but I can't bear to see it crack into the 1600s. As weather gets warmer, I move to CHT as a limiting factor, use the GEM to view the hottest cylinder and lean till it stabilizes at 400* (should always be #3, usually by 30-80*, sits next to the turbo and furthest from the cooling fan). Again, RFM limits you to 450* (C models) or 500* (F and FX) but that seems blazing hot to me. 1600 EGT or 400 CHT, whichever comes first. Has always worked for me, your mileage may vary.
Flew 7.5 hours today on two tanks of gas. 1978 280C leaned to ~1570, avg fuel flow of 9.8 GPH, avg airspeed of 85 MPH. Love the old C models, very economical and you hardly miss the extra 20HP.
Flew 7.5 hours today on two tanks of gas. 1978 280C leaned to ~1570, avg fuel flow of 9.8 GPH, avg airspeed of 85 MPH. Love the old C models, very economical and you hardly miss the extra 20HP.
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I think we are on the same page on the leaning. How did you get the fuel flow so low. According to my instruments I can get down to 11 or so, but not 9. In my Mooney I can cruise at 9 with same engine, but not in the Enstrom. I'll be at max weight tomorrow so I'll get a good idea on best lean. I'll keep your suggestions in mind. Thx
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numbers
Those figures are probably as good as it gets. Once in cruise - bottom of green RPM (maybe even underrevved a bit), 23-24" MP, leaned out as described, sea level, light ship, very strong newer jugs in the engine.
Be careful when maxing out economy like this. Make sure to think ahead of power demands and enrich the mixture shortly before adding power. Simply going from Bottom of green RPM to Top of green RPM from this configuration without enriching can quickly bust your CHT/TIT limits.
Be careful when maxing out economy like this. Make sure to think ahead of power demands and enrich the mixture shortly before adding power. Simply going from Bottom of green RPM to Top of green RPM from this configuration without enriching can quickly bust your CHT/TIT limits.
Last edited by CO280fx; 10th Jun 2014 at 00:33.
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I did as you suggested on cross country trip about an hour each way. I went to low green on RPM and 1560 to 1570 TIT. Got around 12 GPH best I could do. This was with 30 gallons and 2 people about 400lbs in people. I experienced the pilot door blowing open. Really a heart stopper. Had 12 to 15 winds and the passenger door off. Any time I had a right quartering wind the pilot door would blow open. Good thing previous owners had support oleo installed. I hate to think what the door would have looked like without it. Also had a high oil temperature on GEM in cruise flight. I assume because the winds from the right were not allowing air flow from the engine fan through the oil cooler. I richened the mixture and turned away from the crosswind and temps dropped. One other peculiar thing I could use some feedback on. When I first started in the AM I did my runup without the boost pump on as directed and everything went fine. At refueling when it was hot I went to do a runup without the boost pump and the engine stuttered. Do I need to do further troubleshooting on the engine driven pump or is that to be expected at times since it is required to have the electric boost pump on at all times during flight? Is the engine driven pump sufficient for all flight and the electric boost is a precaution or is the boost necessary no matter what?