Enstrom Corner
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They are but most private owners don't fly that much anyway and in the UK they normally don't last much longer than 10-12 years before the trailing edge shows some signs of delamination.
Join Date: Nov 2001
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Well, I seem to recall saying on here years ago the 28A would be a great trainer with less weight, more power and a governor.
Looks like thats what the TH180 is.
I have no doubt it with that weight loss, extra power and governor it will be a very capable and safe trainer. The heavy blades make entry into autorotation easy and safe and in my opinion that is not the place to save weight. The unseemly scramble to get the lever down in an R22 is not an example Enstrom should follow with a trainer.
The 28A had the makings of a great trainer but had too many 'gotchas' to compete with the R22.
Enstrom is Chinese owned. I wonder if the choice of the Lyco is aimed at the Chinese market. Its cheaper and easier to buy and maintain a piston.
I also wonder if the 390 is mogas certified. That would make a lot of sense. Except in the UK where mogas cost is all bloody tax.
There is a mogas burning 210bhp lyco 390 used in the fixed wing world.
Looks like thats what the TH180 is.
I have no doubt it with that weight loss, extra power and governor it will be a very capable and safe trainer. The heavy blades make entry into autorotation easy and safe and in my opinion that is not the place to save weight. The unseemly scramble to get the lever down in an R22 is not an example Enstrom should follow with a trainer.
The 28A had the makings of a great trainer but had too many 'gotchas' to compete with the R22.
Enstrom is Chinese owned. I wonder if the choice of the Lyco is aimed at the Chinese market. Its cheaper and easier to buy and maintain a piston.
I also wonder if the 390 is mogas certified. That would make a lot of sense. Except in the UK where mogas cost is all bloody tax.
There is a mogas burning 210bhp lyco 390 used in the fixed wing world.
Join Date: Jul 2013
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Hey guys, while my shark is still in the deep freeze I was wondering something. Can the engine be started with the rotors secured from turning like if I wanted to warm the engine up in the hangar?
Join Date: Nov 2002
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Cold Start
YES ... but you don't want the drive belt adjustment to be over tight. If the blades start turning on a normal start-up, you might find yourself marking and damaging the belt with engine running and blades tied. Enstrom in Menominee will have the formal answer. Dennis K
Missed the unveiling by a minute or so 
as was at the other end but took these
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as was at the other end but took theseCheers
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That was my concern Dennis. As it is now if I idle for long enough the rotor speed will marry with the engine speed after a while. I don't know if that is because of over tight adjustment or just the nature of rubbing on the belt. The belt is plenty loose, but with any touching on the drive pulley I assume there will be movement. Is there a certain amount of resistance that I should feel if I hold back the rotors by hand? Of course they turn freely with engine off, but I"m sure that's because of the sprag.
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Enstrom belt drive
Correctly adjusted, the blades should remain stationary with the engine running at the normal idle of 1400 to 1500. I own 1104 280C which runs as above. If your blades progressively run up to eventually match the engine speed at idle, (needles married) the belt drive system is NOT in correct adjustment.
I'm sure you understand the lower pulley rotates freely inside the belt loop with the manual clutch dis-engaged as does the jockey pulley. Some 'stickiness' in the belt can be improved with the infamous 'French Chalk!' Hope this helps, but Menominee is always the final source for type information.
Take care. DRK.
I'm sure you understand the lower pulley rotates freely inside the belt loop with the manual clutch dis-engaged as does the jockey pulley. Some 'stickiness' in the belt can be improved with the infamous 'French Chalk!' Hope this helps, but Menominee is always the final source for type information.
Take care. DRK.
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Help with 280 Spec NOT 280C
Hi Pruners, I am trying to get some technical info on the 280, mtow, empty weight, fuel burn/capacity, rate of climb etc etc. Can anyone direct me or help as all I seem to find is info on the 280c. Also if I was going to fly this at around 1500-2000 ft above sealevel in the uk would it make any difference whether or not it was a 280 or a 280c as is the turbo not there to kick in at high altitudes when its very warm? Any other feedback on the 280 would be most welcome. thanks in anticipation 
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The 280 is the same as a 28a with a pointy front. The turbo on a C will not make any real difference at 1500-2000 feet. 28As are fine up to 7500 in the uk. Beyond that weight, temperature, bravery all start to factor. I think I have been up to 9000 ish but its not something I would do regularly. Where the turbo does help is at high altitude (why go there?) or getting out of a tight LZ on a hot day with 3 on board with full tanks. You need all 205 hp then and you dont get it in a non turbo.
Off the top of my head stats for an A are as follows. The 280 will be very similar.
AUW 2150lbs, empty, most are below 1650. Some are not, so 2 adults are fine. 2 lightweights and a child if youre going 3 up. Be prepared not to fill the tanks full.
Burn is 12-14 us gph depending on how fast you want to go. At sensible weights you can get 1000fpm, 700 ish if you are at mauw. Depends on the temperature of course.
A 28a/280 is a great ship and safe if flown conservatively and well under maximum weight. My experience is low hour pilots are attracted because they are cheap. They then push the envelope to the limit and it all goes wrong. I then buy the wreckage cheap for my parts collection.
The turbo is more forgiving and I would recommend it to low hour pilots despite its similarity on paper.
Edit 30usg standard, 40 usg as an option.
Off the top of my head stats for an A are as follows. The 280 will be very similar.
AUW 2150lbs, empty, most are below 1650. Some are not, so 2 adults are fine. 2 lightweights and a child if youre going 3 up. Be prepared not to fill the tanks full.
Burn is 12-14 us gph depending on how fast you want to go. At sensible weights you can get 1000fpm, 700 ish if you are at mauw. Depends on the temperature of course.
A 28a/280 is a great ship and safe if flown conservatively and well under maximum weight. My experience is low hour pilots are attracted because they are cheap. They then push the envelope to the limit and it all goes wrong. I then buy the wreckage cheap for my parts collection
.The turbo is more forgiving and I would recommend it to low hour pilots despite its similarity on paper.
Edit 30usg standard, 40 usg as an option.
Last edited by Gaseous; 14th Mar 2014 at 21:15. Reason: To add specs
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I own a 280C. Book numbers on mine with a few add ons are
Gross weight 2350lbs.
Empty weight 1604lbs
Useful load 746lbs
I do not have a lot of time in it, but it does have plenty of power compared to R22.
You can easily overboost with the turbo so you have to stay on top of it. Especially on a hot start.
Summer with full fuel and 2 adults you have to use good technique and keep the RPM at the top for best performance. I haven't had 3 in it yet.
Gross weight 2350lbs.
Empty weight 1604lbs
Useful load 746lbs
I do not have a lot of time in it, but it does have plenty of power compared to R22.
You can easily overboost with the turbo so you have to stay on top of it. Especially on a hot start.
Summer with full fuel and 2 adults you have to use good technique and keep the RPM at the top for best performance. I haven't had 3 in it yet.
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Struts and shakes question
OK I finally got a chance to service my struts according to Bayard's instructions, see my previous posts about ground rock. I discovered another thing the former A&P, Jerry L, did not do. Certainly doesn't deserve his helicopter guru reputation. Each one had very little fluid and the fluid that was there was foam. Each one had very little if any nitrogen, or I would'nt doubt air, in them. This guy charged $5000 for an annual. I would think the struts would have been serviced for that. Found one somewhat stuck it was so dry. So now the question. Bayard's instructions said older machines with the extensions should use around 300lbs in front and 350lbs in rear. I did not like the way it stood so I put in 450 rear and 400 front. I have a dip stick that has the strut measurement on the back, but it is for the 280FX. Can anyone tell me how I can use that stick to see if I am standing right now? It is written on the stick "centerline fairing bump" on one end. What does that mean?
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Dennis,
I was finally able to dig out from our deep freeze and fire it up. I was mistaken on the rotor RPM at idle. It actually only reached 25 RPM at idle. Is that a little tight on the belt? Also can you reply to my question about the struts?
Dirk
I was finally able to dig out from our deep freeze and fire it up. I was mistaken on the rotor RPM at idle. It actually only reached 25 RPM at idle. Is that a little tight on the belt? Also can you reply to my question about the struts?
Dirk
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Lubrication help
I just purchased maintenance manuals for my 77 shark. Chip advised that I get the 280F manual as well so I did. I'm a little confused on the lubrication requirements. My log book shows that Mobil 28 grease was used in the main rotor components, but the 280F manual says not to use Mobil 28 grease. As a pilot for periodic lubrication needs what grease should I have in my arsenal? Is the required grease compatible with Mobil 28?
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LV,
Go on the Enstrom website and check the Service Letters. The number you want is SIL168. Enstrom changed the lubrication requirements of some of the rotor hub bearings a few years ago. Mobil 28 is the wrong grease for some of the parts. If you have it, the bearings will have to be purged.
When are you located?
Go on the Enstrom website and check the Service Letters. The number you want is SIL168. Enstrom changed the lubrication requirements of some of the rotor hub bearings a few years ago. Mobil 28 is the wrong grease for some of the parts. If you have it, the bearings will have to be purged.
When are you located?
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For IVFlyer
Sorry for the delay ... been out in the breeze earning a crust or two.
Not sure where you get your 25 rpm from. (rotor rpm?) Your flight manual will advise the E1AD engine as fitted to the standard C model should idle at 1400 t0 1500 rpm. At that speed in reasonably still air, the blades should not turn unless the belt is incorrectly adjusted, but please refer the problem to the factory maintenance manual or a qualified with type experience.
We type experienced pilots will always be happy to help but the proper source for information is the factory publications.
Best wishes. Dennis Kenyon.
Not sure where you get your 25 rpm from. (rotor rpm?) Your flight manual will advise the E1AD engine as fitted to the standard C model should idle at 1400 t0 1500 rpm. At that speed in reasonably still air, the blades should not turn unless the belt is incorrectly adjusted, but please refer the problem to the factory maintenance manual or a qualified with type experience.
We type experienced pilots will always be happy to help but the proper source for information is the factory publications.
Best wishes. Dennis Kenyon.