Cattle Mustering incl Training, Job Prospects (!) etc etc

[nardoo]

I started out as a mustering pilot and yes I was a stockman in a previous life (before aviation) so I got "in" very quickly compared to some other guys I have known. Most of the operators prefer to employ experienced mustering pilots (of course) but when the supply is short they will take on a guy with the right background and attitude. The attitude is thats its easier to make a cowboy a pilot than it is to make a pilot a cowboy. I dont mean cowboy in the rogue pilot sence of the word, but in the cattleman context.
However, I know of several guys who were not of the typical mould but still given a start with mustering companies in OZ. In those cases it was a matter of right time, right place and right attitude. Dont let anyone tell you it cant be done, if it was easy everyone would be doing it right? So if you want it, find out what you need to do and go get it!
Good luck, enjoy the ride. Its a good one.

[Autorotate]

Hone22

I was talking to an old friend today, ex mustering pilot who used to fly at VRD in the Territory. He was telling me about a great day that had some explaining at the end. He had to go back and tell the boss he had written off the machine because he had a birdstrike. The boss spent ages wracking his brain trying to figure out why he had written off the machine, until he explained that the bird was still in the tree, and thats why the machine was written off.

Autorotate.

[ias]

mustering oz

I've just completed my CPL(H) and now of course on on the hunt for hours, as you do.

I'm wanting to try my hand at mustering in oz, can anyone inform me of whats involved in a rating and if there are anyjobs or good www links to find one?

[automan]

mustering in Aus

Ive done a lot of research about job hunting,there is jobs in the N.T in aussie but the feedback im getting is get a immigration visa and basically turn up at the start of the season with your swag and if ya face fits your in.

automan.

[Steve76]

Fat chance lads,

Unless you have cattle country in the UK you will NEVER get work mustering in OZ. Regardless of immigration status, rocking up at the beginning of the season will have you pushing a broom for free for one year.
No brahmin time, no fly. No workshop slaving, no flying either. It takes a long time to get cattle and trust up with the NT operators.

[Autorotate]

Steve76

Actually I have to correct you regarding having cattle experience. I have just spent the last week with HeliMuster at VRD in NT and they WILL take trainee pilots (Slaves they are called) that havent worked with cattle before. In fact one of the new owners of the company didnt come from a rural background.

It is preferred but not a must have. The attitude is the big thing and safety orientated is the other, as well as the low level endorsement and also an R-22 safety course attendance. Since the new owners took over, John and Mark, they have emphasised the safety aspect and have some fantastic plans for the future. They are now flying 14 R-22s and a sole Bell 47.

I went out with them both in the 47 and the 22 and its amazing what these guys can do with an aircraft. Email me and will give you a run down if you like on the modern day Heli Muster.

For those wanting to get into the mustering game, my suggestion is go with one of the bigger companies such as Heli Muster, but they wont let you go flying solo with the cattle until you have had 500 hrs dual from one of the training pilots.

Its a great industry and yes they do operate in the dead mans curve most of the time but John and team really emphasise emergency procedures training and they do a lot of it, again and again and again. Thats why John has over 19500 hrs mustering and the majority of his pilots, except the young ones, have over 8000 hrs.

Hope that helps.

Autorotate.

[Steve76]

Autorotate,

I will have to disagree completely with you. No offence intended.

After 2yrs flying for NAH (aka: the dreaded opposition...) I know exactly what I am talking about. In fact this time last year I hitched a lift into KG in Marks truck...

What is mustering all about?

A) Firstly mustering is great fun but it has a "used by" date. Its a go nowhere career. Ask Mark.
B) Mustering is about being able to read cattle and get on with the property owners. HM might say that they take guys with no cattle experience but behind your back they will say the exact opposite. Look at the stats for the pilots and the evidence is there before you.
C) It is about flying all day, logging half the time, not logging ferries and BS the maintenance release. Mustering pilots pull the arse out of the robbie while ignoring all the limitations imposed by Frank and Lycoming. That fancy flying is just that: Fancy. However, take a moment to consider the G loading, the stress and the overspeeds and it won't seem so grand.

Please don't give the impression to these foreign pilots that they can get into this industry easily. It takes a lot of ringing time and plenty of slave labour (literally) and there are NO promises.

Despite the rosy picture painted at HM, they are just the same as the rest. I can give you e-mail addresses of past and present employees too.

Onya,
Steve76

[Autorotate]

Steve76

Fair enough, no offence taken. I can only go by what I am told from the people I speak to. Two of the three trainee pilots that were there the other day didnt come from rural backgrounds and yet they were given jobs.

Because CASA is breathing down the industry's throat now they have to be a lot squeakier than before which is why I would say that HM is trying to change the way they do business, especially now that they have new owners. Again I can only go by what I have seen and heard. Yes there are a lot of idiots in the mustering industry that deserve to be shut down but there are also a few that are trying to get back on the straight and narrow.

NAH is one that I know have had problems and their Chief Engineer quit the other day. Read between the lines on that one. HM and many others also have to start looking at other places to get pilots as many of the older guys are looking at hanging up their hats, and the bush has changed with not a lot of guys wanting to fork out the money to get a licence.

I am not trying to paint a rosy picture for the overseas guys, just trying to say that it is not a totally closed shop from those that I have spoken to. I would certainly say dont just turn up and hope to get a job, thats too much of a risk to take. I have also spoken to many present and past employees on the mustering, as as you say, some speak good and some speak bad of it.

Just my two cents worth.

Autorotate.

[Steve76]

Good onya Auto
Well rebutted,
Safe and fun flying.

[Vfrpilotpb]

Whilst in that beautiful city of Paris last week, waiting for my commanding officeress to select which dress made her look slimmer, bored out of my skull I flicked through a few of the many TV channels that were on offer, I came upon a short film about Mustering in the outback, now being slightly interested I turned up the sound and low, that distinctive noise of R22 metal being thrashed hooked me, these guys who fly these things seem like they have more fun than I did whilst in Paris, if you know what I mean!!!

[NigD2]

VFR

I think I saw the same Oz mustering programme on Sky a while back.

I smiled a little at the huge aborigine pilot who had to auto from 50ft because his left handed marksman knocked the fuel shut off lever with his elbow.

Quality bit of fun flying!!

NigD

[SFHeliguy]

Cattle Mustering

All,

BACKGROUND

I'm just another corporate dingaling thinking about quitting his day job and flying for a living. I've got about 200 hours single engine fixed and just got my heli add on in R22's and have about 70 hours in R22s. I'm planning on purchasing and commuting in an R22 this year so by this time next year, I'll have around 200 hours R22 and 400 hours TT. I also plan to get my commercial license this year.

PROPOSED PATH

Next year, I'm going to be looking for the best way (or if there are any ways) to get a bunch of commercial time and build hours. I'm not as interested in the CFI route but will do that if it's the only way. I'm hoping instead that with the hours above, I can give a try at cattle mustering or some other time building activity. I'm thinking cattle mustering because (from what little I know) it sounds like:

- It's all done in R22's
- It's nasty conditions (so all of you that have the hours won't bother)
- It pays kinda lousey

QUESTIONS

1. Is 400 Total Time with 200 in R22's + FAA commercial enough to get me into a cattle mustering job?

2. Is there another choice that I'm missing?

3. I've heard there's a requirement for a " Mustering & Low Level
Endorsement"? What is it and how do I get it?

4. What kind of conditions should I expect?

5. What kind of pay should I expect?

6. Any other thoughts?

thanks in advance.



matthew

[MightyGem]

Not sure what it's like in the States, but in Australia they generally like you have done the cowboy bit on the ground, so that you know how cows think.

[WLM]

SFheliguy

Where are you looking at doing your mustering? If it is in Australia, your chance of getting into the industry are NIL. Station owners will not employ a person without station experience. The norm is for an experienced station hand to be sponsored for his pilot's licence in the best scenario, or pay for his/her licence in the worst case. Do not think for one minute that cattle mustering is easy, as you will be flying in the Dead man curve at all time. Cattle is very tricky to work and have induced many incidents/accidents for low time pilots. Australia leads the way in stock mustering. I have great respect for these pilots for their flying ability, and speak from first hand experience, having had the privilege to be shown what to and not to do in extreme situations. Having said all that, my main flying is in Tourism, a much safer and 9-5 environment. Good luck.

[bigruss]

SFHeliguy re Mustering

you would be advised to try another road to experience. i suggest tourism. as already mentioned usually only people with an extensive stock background on large north australian cattle properties are employed. of course not always the rule, there is sometimes the right place and the right time scenario but i dont like your chances.
save yourself some trouble and look elsewhere

all the same best of luck and maybe we'll see you out here swallowing dust with the rest of us
cheers

[BlenderPilot]

SFHeli . . .

I really don't think chasing cows in a piston ship at sea level with not too much weight onboard could be really difficult, sure for a cowboy turned pilot it could probably be dangerous, but for a pro pilot it think it could only be fun, at least for the first 20 hours or so.

Anyway it seems to me that they want to reserve those jobs for cowboys turned pilots, so for starters why not go the Tuna Spotting road for a while? You will get to travel and maybe you can find one of those cool jobs in Panama or something, also the pay is not bad I have friends who make about 4,000 dollars a month doing it, they are working in the Spanish ships that dock here in Mexico, and after 500 hours or so they might even put you in a 206 (the military version).

Just a suggestion.

[bigruss]

SF Heliguy re mustering

Matthew i am sorry if my previous reply seemed a bit abrupt on reflection.

Most of the Mustering in Australia is done using R22's, there are also a few H269C/CB's around.

The nasty conditions depend on your outlook. An airconditioned room or a swag under the stars now and then is really not too bad. You never have to cook for yourself or mow a lawn and i haven't seen too many places where there is no cold beer.

The pay usually is pretty lousy in most jobs when you start at the bottom but i think if you got a start full time flying and were able to do 6 or 7 hundred hours in your first year you would probably be able to earn about $28,000 aussie dollars. after that it goes commensurate with what you are able to offer ie. experience, clients who follow you, loyalty and other plus factors. The top earners usually do about 1300 hours per year and make around $100,000 aussie dollars

On to your questions

1/ 400 hours total time with 200 on Robbies might get you a start with a large mustering company as you should be able to conduct basic manouvering safely.

2/ as for another choice see blender

3/ The low level endorsement you can get at most flying schools over here, its 18 years since i did mine but i think its only about 5 hours. For the mustering endorsement some schools can do them and it is 10 hours, but most operators of any size have a pilot on staff who is an approved pilot to give mustering training. What would happen usually is that you would spend 300 to 400 hours with this pilot before he would consider you competent enough to release. When you were fully endorsed you would usually still have to stay under close supervision and work for you would be carefully selected. It takes most people about 1000 hours before they are competent enough to get by on their own( by that i mean not bending the machine and themselves or stuffing up the job and loosing a client)

4/ The conditions i have spoken on a bit already but this is 2003 and most people like to be comfortable. There are always a few A####holes wherever you go but most people will give you as good as they've got.

5/ pay see above

6/ My thoughts Matthew are that you should really try another line.
I have been mustering for 18 years and have flown 14,000 hours. I have trained for mustering 12 pilots at considerable effort and time and it is always a source of great disapointment for me to learn that i have spent around 2 years training and watching and monitoring and checking and living with these guys turning them into a competent and capable musterer to see some of them move on after they have got 2 or 3 thousand hours. I suppose thats the way of the world but one way to get more years for your efforts of training is to target for training people who are more likely to stay the distance, ie stockmen who have an interest in the industry and who are used to the lifestyle and already know half the job.

Having said all that most people will respect effort and if you were truly committed to our industry i feel sure you would get a start somewhere.

Best of luck

[pohm1]

1300 Hrs Per Annum

Top earners doing 1300 hours per year better hang on to some of that $100,000 to pay the fine for busting their 1200 hrs per year flight limit! Then again this is mustering that we're talking about

[bigruss]

To pohm 1
for your information old mate i am holding in my hot little hand CASA instrument 521/02 and you might be interested in
paragraph 5.1 (a)(iii) if the pilot has had a period of 42 consecutive days free of piloting or other aviation related duty during that period ---- 1400 hours in any consecutive 365 days

[pohm1]

?????

How does that work! You take 6 weeks off leaving you 46 working weeks, and then you're allowed to cram an extra 200hrs in?

Also, does Ppruning count as aviation related duties?