Cant decide. Property or CTC? - Pilots please help
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Cant decide. Property or CTC? - Pilots please help
Hi,
I am new here, I am from the UK and I will keep this simple.
I have been accepted onto the CTC Integrated whitetail course. Finance is not a problem for me and I do not need a loan , my parents can just about cover the course fees and probably a type rating only just.
I have 2 options at the moment I either accept the CTC course and become a pilot or my second option is that I go into property and I buy 2 small flats to rent them out and focus on a different career for myself whilst I rent out property.
The reason I am confused is because obviously I have done my research into the airline industry and I have found some things that the flight schools do not tell you. I am fully aware they are a business and they want to sell it to you.
1. I have only recently learned about type rating bonds.
2. There is a lot of growth in aviation especially in the middle east and China. My question here is Qatar and fly Dubai for example still fly into Erbil in Iraq, which is very worrying for staff from Europe and the US, how does this work, do western staff have the right not to fly to a dangerous place? the foreign travel advice UK advises against all travel to Iraq.
3. My main preference is to work in the UK , but I have no idea what job I will get at the end, as I will end up in the placement pool with CTC. I know that half of their partner airlines is UK based , some middle eastern and some Chinese. I can not get on the BA scheme because I don't meet the academic requirements and its the same for virgin.
I just hope some of you can help me on this, and if possible tell me more about the industry that I may have missed. Thank you.
I am new here, I am from the UK and I will keep this simple.
I have been accepted onto the CTC Integrated whitetail course. Finance is not a problem for me and I do not need a loan , my parents can just about cover the course fees and probably a type rating only just.
I have 2 options at the moment I either accept the CTC course and become a pilot or my second option is that I go into property and I buy 2 small flats to rent them out and focus on a different career for myself whilst I rent out property.
The reason I am confused is because obviously I have done my research into the airline industry and I have found some things that the flight schools do not tell you. I am fully aware they are a business and they want to sell it to you.
1. I have only recently learned about type rating bonds.
2. There is a lot of growth in aviation especially in the middle east and China. My question here is Qatar and fly Dubai for example still fly into Erbil in Iraq, which is very worrying for staff from Europe and the US, how does this work, do western staff have the right not to fly to a dangerous place? the foreign travel advice UK advises against all travel to Iraq.
3. My main preference is to work in the UK , but I have no idea what job I will get at the end, as I will end up in the placement pool with CTC. I know that half of their partner airlines is UK based , some middle eastern and some Chinese. I can not get on the BA scheme because I don't meet the academic requirements and its the same for virgin.
I just hope some of you can help me on this, and if possible tell me more about the industry that I may have missed. Thank you.
Last edited by John778; 3rd Aug 2015 at 18:36.
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Cant decide. Property or CTC? - Pilots please help
If you're looking at getting in to the industry based purely on the wage you'll earn then I wouldn't bother wasting your time or your parents money on training.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Do you want to become a pilot or are you after a salary?
What's your age?
CTC "white tail" is risky in that there's no real assurance of a job at the end. You might be lucky or you may not be. Who knows? Are you comfortable servicing that debt load to your parents? Are they comfortable potentially waiting 15+ years for their money back?
Before diving into the buy to let market, have a look at some of the new proposals that are being kicked around by the Chancellor.
As for the do we have the right to refuse to operate there. Sort of. You can refuse but you'd better have a very good reason - especially if the operator has put in alternate measures for security. Keep refusing? You'll probably need to find another job.
What's your age?
CTC "white tail" is risky in that there's no real assurance of a job at the end. You might be lucky or you may not be. Who knows? Are you comfortable servicing that debt load to your parents? Are they comfortable potentially waiting 15+ years for their money back?
Before diving into the buy to let market, have a look at some of the new proposals that are being kicked around by the Chancellor.
As for the do we have the right to refuse to operate there. Sort of. You can refuse but you'd better have a very good reason - especially if the operator has put in alternate measures for security. Keep refusing? You'll probably need to find another job.
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Troll?
If not, then property every time. Your parents will thank you for it later and you'll manage to avoid any beastly destinations for which the Foreign Office issues travel advisories.
If not, then property every time. Your parents will thank you for it later and you'll manage to avoid any beastly destinations for which the Foreign Office issues travel advisories.
Educated Hillbilly
If you are asking the question before you have started training then the truth is this isn't for you.
The choice of a flying career has to be based on a passion to fly.
When you get to experience the joys of the split shift and earlies that can soon disappear.
So for you buy the flats.
The choice of a flying career has to be based on a passion to fly.
When you get to experience the joys of the split shift and earlies that can soon disappear.
So for you buy the flats.
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Quite agree - unless you have the passion to fly above all else, do the property thing. You'll likely get so rich you can have your own aircraft!
Mind you, renting isn't what it's cracked up to be - I would probably flip houses (buy and sell after a bit of doing up).
Phil
Mind you, renting isn't what it's cracked up to be - I would probably flip houses (buy and sell after a bit of doing up).
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I think the fact that you've even had to ask the question tells you what you should do.
If you have the grit and the determination to be a pilot, you'll do anything to get there, and not even the prospect of sitting waiting in a pool would be enough to deter that.
Play it safe, go buy some flats.
If you do enjoy flying, maybe work towards a PPL.
Doc
If you have the grit and the determination to be a pilot, you'll do anything to get there, and not even the prospect of sitting waiting in a pool would be enough to deter that.
Play it safe, go buy some flats.
If you do enjoy flying, maybe work towards a PPL.
Doc
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Thank you for the replies.
Just to answer some of your questions.
First one is no I am not a troll, I am being dead serious here.
Secondly I am 29 years old , I am not far from 30.
I have been on a trail flight and yes I throughly enjoyed it.
The reason I am asking is because as you know , this is a massive decision financially. At the moment I am stuck in a dead end job as well with little prospects. I am fully aware that flying is very hard work, and it's very competitive along with the fact you spend your time away from friends and family for long periods. A part of me does want to have a career , and I did like my trail lesson.
Just to answer some of your questions.
First one is no I am not a troll, I am being dead serious here.
Secondly I am 29 years old , I am not far from 30.
I have been on a trail flight and yes I throughly enjoyed it.
The reason I am asking is because as you know , this is a massive decision financially. At the moment I am stuck in a dead end job as well with little prospects. I am fully aware that flying is very hard work, and it's very competitive along with the fact you spend your time away from friends and family for long periods. A part of me does want to have a career , and I did like my trail lesson.
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Flats vs flying
Becoming a commercial pilot is all about the passion and achieving a dream.
It takes a lot of determination and self discipline to make it through the training, especially in an integrated course. Being accepted doesn't mean you will make it through.
Like many other people who replied to your thread, I would say that brining up such a kind of question when you know that you got the money to complete a
prestigious integrated course all the way to type rating, while other people can't even afford to finish their training even on the modular route, for me
you are not that passionate to follow a career as a commercial pilot, and most importantly I don't think you will be able to compete with people who have been dreaming about flying for a long time now, clearly.
Stick to your 2 flat plan, you can't go wrong with that
It takes a lot of determination and self discipline to make it through the training, especially in an integrated course. Being accepted doesn't mean you will make it through.
Like many other people who replied to your thread, I would say that brining up such a kind of question when you know that you got the money to complete a
prestigious integrated course all the way to type rating, while other people can't even afford to finish their training even on the modular route, for me
you are not that passionate to follow a career as a commercial pilot, and most importantly I don't think you will be able to compete with people who have been dreaming about flying for a long time now, clearly.
Stick to your 2 flat plan, you can't go wrong with that
Last edited by gpiper; 4th Aug 2015 at 09:41.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Ok at 30 you have a little bit of time before the dreaded "experience commensurate with age" drag curve really starts to bite.
There is another option apart from a full time flying course or a block of flats.
You could use the money to retrain in another career. ie go to uni etc.
Would buying some houses/flats ease your dead end job?
I think that's the real issue, you're in a dead end job that you don't like and you're looking for an escape. Figure out what you genuinely want to do and do that.
There is another option apart from a full time flying course or a block of flats.
You could use the money to retrain in another career. ie go to uni etc.
Would buying some houses/flats ease your dead end job?
I think that's the real issue, you're in a dead end job that you don't like and you're looking for an escape. Figure out what you genuinely want to do and do that.
There is still good money (relatively speaking) to be made in some airlines but now you will be working like a third world quarry donkey for it, and some of the "expat" airlines think that if they pay you they own you too.
Most people nowadays will view you as a "glorified bus driver" and these days in some elements it's true. Professional piloting is a risky investment career wise. A lot of getting the so-called "good" jobs is a matter of right place right time, yes it might be you, but it might not be you. This is true of a lot of vocations of course, but don't forget you've made a £150k investment at the start of it all. The thought of having spent all that cash in return for a job flying turboprops in a regional airline would make me physically ill I'm sure. I was fortunate enough to get into bizjet flying, but again it's very variable job wise in terms of T's & C's.
My advice: Buy the flats (there's some financial security in doing that) and think about something else you'd like to do, if you still fancy flying do a PPL and take it from there. Always remember though, there's a lot more in life than flying aeroplanes. Good luck
Most people nowadays will view you as a "glorified bus driver" and these days in some elements it's true. Professional piloting is a risky investment career wise. A lot of getting the so-called "good" jobs is a matter of right place right time, yes it might be you, but it might not be you. This is true of a lot of vocations of course, but don't forget you've made a £150k investment at the start of it all. The thought of having spent all that cash in return for a job flying turboprops in a regional airline would make me physically ill I'm sure. I was fortunate enough to get into bizjet flying, but again it's very variable job wise in terms of T's & C's.
My advice: Buy the flats (there's some financial security in doing that) and think about something else you'd like to do, if you still fancy flying do a PPL and take it from there. Always remember though, there's a lot more in life than flying aeroplanes. Good luck
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"Becoming a commercial pilot is all about the passion and achieving a dream."
No it's not...that's what passionate dreamers believe! There are endless numbers of students progressing through integrated CPL courses who sound just like the OP: wanted to do something different because they were in a dead-end job, sold on the perceived glamour of an airline job by the glossy ATO advertising, know very little about what the job actually entails or what to anticipate during either training or employment and have little or no interest in flying or aviation and yet, often they find employment and then start complaining about how much better their life was before, how much they miss weekends and bank holidays off, seeing friends and family, money etc. A friend of mine owned several rental properties some years ago prior to embarking on a successful flying career in his thirties, and now, approaching retirement, has regrets about letting the properties go and not pressing on with a career as a landlord.
Equally, there are many who do not pursue a flying job on completion of training because they discover during training that they don't really like flying. A bit like an expensive trial lesson I suppose!
I have always considered myself an enthusiastic, motivating soul who enjoys the flying environment and, on the whole, the people who are attracted to it. I entered a career imagining I would meet likeminded types, however my experience over 25 years of professional aviation is that the 'enthusiasts' are in the minority and most take the view that it is not so much a flying career but rather a career in which you fly. Frankly, if I'd been motivated by money and lifestyle, I'd have chosen something else...like property development.
Good Luck.
No it's not...that's what passionate dreamers believe! There are endless numbers of students progressing through integrated CPL courses who sound just like the OP: wanted to do something different because they were in a dead-end job, sold on the perceived glamour of an airline job by the glossy ATO advertising, know very little about what the job actually entails or what to anticipate during either training or employment and have little or no interest in flying or aviation and yet, often they find employment and then start complaining about how much better their life was before, how much they miss weekends and bank holidays off, seeing friends and family, money etc. A friend of mine owned several rental properties some years ago prior to embarking on a successful flying career in his thirties, and now, approaching retirement, has regrets about letting the properties go and not pressing on with a career as a landlord.
Equally, there are many who do not pursue a flying job on completion of training because they discover during training that they don't really like flying. A bit like an expensive trial lesson I suppose!
I have always considered myself an enthusiastic, motivating soul who enjoys the flying environment and, on the whole, the people who are attracted to it. I entered a career imagining I would meet likeminded types, however my experience over 25 years of professional aviation is that the 'enthusiasts' are in the minority and most take the view that it is not so much a flying career but rather a career in which you fly. Frankly, if I'd been motivated by money and lifestyle, I'd have chosen something else...like property development.
Good Luck.
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"The thought of having spent all that cash in return for a job flying turboprops in a regional airline would make me physically ill I'm sure."
Private jet - you ought to try it someday. Reminds me of some students I met at one of the big UK FTO's a few years ago who informed me that they hadn't spent all that money to fly something with propellers!
I knew people who would have given their right arm to fly turboprops anywhere for the sake of a job not that long ago. That said, the advice you offer is sensible and I agree - there's a lot more to life than flying aeroplanes.
Pity EK don't operate Q400's though
Private jet - you ought to try it someday. Reminds me of some students I met at one of the big UK FTO's a few years ago who informed me that they hadn't spent all that money to fly something with propellers!
I knew people who would have given their right arm to fly turboprops anywhere for the sake of a job not that long ago. That said, the advice you offer is sensible and I agree - there's a lot more to life than flying aeroplanes.
Pity EK don't operate Q400's though
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Wo Wo Wo!
Don`t want to see any misconceptions creeping in about turbofan's being any more superior than turboprops because it`s BS! I`ve flown both types for a number of carriers (regional, cargo, charter, major, LCC etc) and to be honest, taking into account a large number of variables, some of the best jobs/careers around are flying the ATR/Dash8 (latest glass cockpit models) in regional operations. Business operations can be hit and miss really. It`s not so much whether it`s a "turbofan" or "turboprop" as there can be a lot of overlap, e.g within the business scene the Piaggio Avanti II really outperforms similar sized "jets" in many ways. (FL410 TAS 400Kt, 40% less fuel burn).
For me, the aviation has really become more of a sideline as there is much more to life than flying 900 hours a year in a LCC for example. Personally, the thought of paying 150K to CTC and ending up in Easyjet makes me feel physically sick. I went down the property route which is my primary business now. Property is more of a longer term investment, renting out is best solution now as flipping is difficult due to mortgage restrictions and income tax issues. I wouldn`t look at it as an income stream in itself, just something in the background for the future.
What you need to do is BOTH. Putting Buy to let mortgages on both properties will raise funds for another career, whether it`s flying or something else. However I`d avoid CTC as the return on investment is crap, there are better options.
Don`t want to see any misconceptions creeping in about turbofan's being any more superior than turboprops because it`s BS! I`ve flown both types for a number of carriers (regional, cargo, charter, major, LCC etc) and to be honest, taking into account a large number of variables, some of the best jobs/careers around are flying the ATR/Dash8 (latest glass cockpit models) in regional operations. Business operations can be hit and miss really. It`s not so much whether it`s a "turbofan" or "turboprop" as there can be a lot of overlap, e.g within the business scene the Piaggio Avanti II really outperforms similar sized "jets" in many ways. (FL410 TAS 400Kt, 40% less fuel burn).
For me, the aviation has really become more of a sideline as there is much more to life than flying 900 hours a year in a LCC for example. Personally, the thought of paying 150K to CTC and ending up in Easyjet makes me feel physically sick. I went down the property route which is my primary business now. Property is more of a longer term investment, renting out is best solution now as flipping is difficult due to mortgage restrictions and income tax issues. I wouldn`t look at it as an income stream in itself, just something in the background for the future.
What you need to do is BOTH. Putting Buy to let mortgages on both properties will raise funds for another career, whether it`s flying or something else. However I`d avoid CTC as the return on investment is crap, there are better options.
