Professional Pilot Training (includes ground studies)A forum for those on the steep path to that coveted professional licence. Whether studying for the written exams, training for the flight tests or building experience here's where you can hang out.
The Senator asks about reports that a new company has been established at the same address as PTC. I understand that a company, Clearsky Pilot Training College Limited, has been registered at that address. The IAA has not received any application for approval from the company involved. However, following these reports, last Thursday, 4 October, the IAA inspected the premises of the company in question and found that the company is providing refresher training for an international non-EU client. That training does not meet the standard required for an Irish or EU pilot's licence. Should this new entity wish to provide training meeting stringent EU standards, like any other company it will have to apply to the IAA for approval.
While the Companies Acts do not come within my remit, I am advised that a registered company is a legal entity separate from its owners, shareholders and directors. The owners of a limited liability company are liable only for the amount of money that they have invested in the company and are not liable for the entire debts of the company. PTC was such a limited liability company. Distressing as it may be for all creditors of PTC, whether students or firms, under the Companies Act, if a person is the owner or director of a company that is put into liquidation, the directors and owners are legally entitled to establish or continue to be involved with another company and the debts of the first company do not transfer with the owners or directors to the new company. Creditors of the failed private entity should pursue the recovery of their debts with the liquidator if possible. As I have said already, neither the Government nor the IAA accept any liability for a private company's debts. Nevertheless, I acknowledge the Senator's comments that the students and their families have been wronged. They have been wronged by the company involved and not the Irish taxpayer.
Just for your information for Atlantic Flight Tarining is now run by....wait for it...Dana Davis. The old hairdresser sales guy that ran the PTC scam. He is stocking it with former PTC instructor wannabees and old mates. The good guys have left in disgust. KEEP AWAY, he is running it into the ground for his own personal financial gain. As for this Jordan operation with Edgeworthless, it is under investigation and we will let you know what we find and if Edgeworthless is involved every effort will be made to finish it. It helps to have lots of former colleagues in the Middle East Aviation Business to whom reputation is everything. If they think Edgeworthless has lied or is stealing from them, which is likely and he will ruin their reputation he will be on the next plane out (minus his right hand)
1. Vastly overpaid for what he does - £75k salary, car expenses and 0.5% upfront commission fees per new student recruited via national recruitment events.
2. Claiming at student pilot recruitment and assessment events run in hotels around the country that he is (or used to be) an airline pilot, but is currently not flying due to a medical problem.
3. At the same events, he regularly wears a pilot uniform, complete with epaulettes and gold bars on his sleeves. Quite apart from the stupid ‘look at me’ haircut, he can be instantly recognised by his patent black leather winkle-picker shoes and a name badge which clearly states his position as ‘Commander DAVIES’ (also worn when working at AFT). The guy’s flying experience amounts to approximately 17 hrs in a C152 for ***** sake!
4. He has been heard first-hand telling would-be students who attend these events that they are ‘guaranteed a job with an airline’ if they sign on the dotted line. I have heard this myself at PTC recruitment days.
I hear Edgeworth has been renewing his Ratings with a well known examiner from up-north. The very same one who has just started work for Atlantic.
The Edgeworth links are are slipping in guys....
As for the Jordan story, there appears to be a link between the chairman of AFT and the 'investors' for PTC
I am the Chairman of AFT, and although I am not sure what your point is, I am happy to correct your information and answer any relevant question you may have. Needless to say, I will not endulge in gossip, hearsay or slander.
Yes, Dana is the COO of AFT and doing a great job. He has more gutts and dignity than many people I have worked with, and he has my full support. I don't know if he was a hairdresser or not, but being a hairdresser is not shameful, not is any job that brings food to your table in an honest manner.
Yes, Dana receives a salary, which I will not share with you for obvious reasons, but he does not get any comission.
I have never heard Dana claim to be a pilot, nor have I ever seen him in a pilot uniform. As a matter fo fact, he has a collection of black suites that I am trying to get him to trade-in. Nonethless, it is not the clothes that make the man.
Dana, and our entire team, are always careful to point out that "nobody" can guarantee anyone a job. In fact, I invite you to attend the next information session to hear his entire presentation first hand. I will even invite you to dinner as my guest.
There is no link between Mr. Edgeworth and AFT. AFT is owned entirely by my family, as is Ayla Aviation Academy in Jordan.
Yes, we took on some former PTC staff, including our Head of Training. We also have former Cabair personnel, as well as staff with experience in other FTO's. This is the nature of any business, and we are very proud of our staff.
Then you are deluded my friend. Good luck with it all but as far as many, many people are concerned the PTC sales team are responsible for the fraud as equally as Edgeworthless. I have personally witnessed the claims that I and many other true professionals have stated many times. So If you wish to be less than honest then it is your affair. What goes on when you are not around is for you to work out. As I said i have seen it many times personally. If you wish to support these people it speaks volumes about you and your integrity. You have come into the industry with I hope good intentions and have taken on the dregs of the industry and for you I am sad. There are many many very talented and honest people available in our industry yet you sink to the depths. Well good luck A little education would go a long way......
As for rumours...... that is what this site is all about. Get used to it.
Haven't completely read the thread but I went to see the PTC 2 years back and was about to apply for the assessment but due to family life I never got the chance.
Relieved that I didn't after hearing this
Pay by flight is my only way now.....These colleges look great on paper but personally I think a rating by rating in your own time is far better.
Im sure there are some great colleges out there but in todays climate handing over that amount of cash is not safe
How does a company who failed to meet its financial obligations to creditors, to customers and to all the students and families have the ability to reopen under a new name with the same players on board??????
Why is this allowed? How???
Just take money, take money and take money....get liquidated and reopen again under a new business?
What happened to honor in aviation? What happened to a handshake is all you need for a honest business transaction to be fulfilled?
What happened to personal responsibility when operating an aviation business?
What happened to caring about your clients and students?
How does one sleep at night knowing families have lost thousands and dreams dashed away because of pure greed?
Is "Captain" Mark Robertson a member of your staff?
If so do you find it acceptable that someone with no airline experience, no instructing experience and without having ever even attained a basic frozen ATPL is calling themselves a captain and being presented to potential students as such?
2. It doesn't matter now (to AFT) because he has been dismissed. I don't have definite knowledge, but I believe it was simply because he was not bringing home the bacon.
This is honourable I think, because whatever the truth behind everything about his past, student recruiting was his single and clear task with AFT. Ironic perhaps, given his skills in selling himself to AFT?
Mark Robertson claimed to be an ex Monarch pilot, who had a medical problem which is why he wasn't there anymore. Is this info correct?
Dana Davies did indeed claim to be an ex Captain of an airliner and he also said he had a medical problem. To what depths did these people go to just to get people to sign on the dotted line???
Mark Roberston is a farmer by trade, he signed up to do PTC's airline program (zero to hero) a few years back, however as previous posts have stated he was unable to complete his CPL/ME and did not even get onto the IR course. As pilotbear states it was 'managed' to get him a CPL/SE!
Last time I looked, Monarch do not operate any single engine jet transport aircraft , so I think that may answer your question about his claim to be a pilot/captain with that or any other airline.
He has no airline experience (apart from as a passenger), nor does he have or ever passed a Multi engine rating nor an instrument rating!
The answer to your question is CORRUPTION The smell of Edgeworth’s greed was foul enough when PTC (version 1) was hammered shut before it was scoured of all spare change.
Edgeworth’s continued impunity to stroll around with €5.5 Million in stolen cash has the unmistakable stench of political and ‘departmental’ collusion which is made even more unbearable as we now witness the thief plan his next crime in plain sight.
The IAA can’t keep jotting out ‘position statements’ claiming total innocence and ignorance of all wrongdoing. Why did it give tacit approval for a ‘Pilot College’ to a geezer with a barely dry PPL and NO history whatsoever in the sphere of ‘big iron’ transport aviation?
Why hasn't anyone cornered Bertie Ahern and asked him how much palm grease it took to smash a bottle of champers on the hull of PTC when it was launched - and what implications would arise from that party political 'alliance'?
The questions keep coming, and it’s interesting to see that the pressure exerted by ‘pilotbear’ and others in keeping this thread to the fore is beginning to draw some results.
If we keep our collective eyes on the critters scattering from under the stones we might catch sight of a ‘fat one’ as it makes a break for cover. Meanwhile we should keep repeating ‘pilotbears’ previous question...
WHERE’S THE MONEY? - WHERE’S THE MONEY? - WHERE’S THE MONEY?
Unbelievable, how did these people lie to people for so long. He definitely told me he worked for Monarch etc and I had no reason to believe otherwise after he told us stories of the B757 and how easy the B737 was to fly, however I 100 percent believe what you're saying. There was something very dodgy about this lot from my dealings with them. They certainly did a good job flogging this con...
After attending a presentation by this character Davies and Robinson some Months ago, it was obvious to most of the attendees there after the event, that they were a couple of ''sharks and Conmen'' trying to use their salesman tactics and woffle to decieve young people who are trying to achieve their dream in an honest profession.
It is Interesting reading the comments by both ''Pilot Bear'' and many others and the reply from MMAtalla. There is a saying ''If you lay down with dogs you may get up with fleas''.
It would be very wise for Mr.MMAtalla to take notice of potential customers,they are your bread and butter, and word speads very quickly these days.
I had good reports from previous students friends, of AFT and the instructors,courses and management two years ago, but would now stay well clear with these well known individuals now involved.
Every company needs to market their product, but please find someone who is honest and factual about the industry, there are some genuine people out there with a solid background in Aviation. We are not all gullible.
I seen sonething similar to this on the notice board in my club today. It won't be there tomorrow! It was for everyone and not just those with military affiliation. I assumed it was Atlantic at Coventry. However the link below does not show the prices which are £129 instead of the usual £149.
By the way and I will have to hint at this 'allegation or rumour as the original post was deleted, and it is rumoured that I can prove this as i have may or may not have evidence that the hairdresser quoted himself on dating sites as an Airline Captain. That is how honest your employee is Mr AFT.
And the only thing your 'team' are careful to point out is where to sign your name on the contract after you have signed your cheque
I confirm the remarks in regard to Mark Robertson. Whether he was lead astray by the guile of Dana Davies or not is an argument for another day.
As for Mr Davies he has no commercial licences or experience of operating aircraft. His previous exploits include salesman for Merlyn bathrooms, so he is well used to operating in the sewer and peddling sh*te.
As for Mr Edgeworth I am told that he has made three attempts to get airborne from Waterford in order to renew his ratings. The first time he got all the way to the hold point and was refused clearance for departure and sent back to the ramp. Unpaid bills in ramps charges and hangarage etc. He argued that the aircraft belonged to Shemburn had nothing to do with PTC and so were being operated privately.
I have also since learned that he bumped into a former employee of PTC at Waterford airport, his comments to the employee being, that the examinership was to save his company and the jobs of the employees. Now that PTC was over he was heard to say that it was good to be back in the aviation industry and would not be making the same mistakes he did the last time.
Last edited by a higher plane; 24th Oct 2012 at 21:55.
What happened to the post that called out a person's name and not their user name? Did someone get a little too close to the truth? Can't take the heat cause you know these "rumours" might be a bit more than "rumour" so you felt the need to get ratty? How grown up of you.
Might this person, A.W., be the previous CFI from PTC Ireland? Is he, A.W., also an IAA examiner? Little cosy relationship? Hmmmm? All rumours of course?
Anyone who is in the know and important knows who Pilotbear is! He is anything but a coward. He has continued to ring truth about PTC and Edgeworthless for years and unfortunately the warnings were not heeded
Shame on moderators who censored his posts previously. Shame on people who EVER DOUBTED Pilotbear and believed Edgeworthless and his lack luster team. You know who you are, Pilotbear was right the entire time.
Heard Pilotbear may be accepting apologies from you at his convenience.
a Higher Plane; We tried to post that link before, hope fully the Mod will just remove the link (just doing his job I guess) not the valuable information in the post But thanks for joining in the more people that know the truth the better for us all. I hope mr. AFT realises that we are not attacking him but the sharks that willingly and ruthlessly stole money from young students and their families
Ollie 1997: I saw that too, thanks mate
AW: Hey up, Nice try lad> If you want to be associated with Edgeworthless then that is poor judgement on the part of a usually highly intelligent and formerly well respected guy. Odd really considering your opinion of the guy in private. But is your decision, must be money in it eh?
AND, Ladies and Gentlemen can I just remind Everyone that SHEMBURN is the EDGEWORTHLESS family as previously discussed
(minus his right hand
)
