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Professional Pilot Training (includes ground studies) A forum for those on the steep path to that coveted professional licence. Whether studying for the written exams, training for the flight tests or building experience here's where you can hang out.


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Old 25th Jan 2010, 23:02   #1 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: The better half of England!
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Modular V Integrated (Merged) - LOOK HERE BEFORE STARTING A NEW THREAD

Hi checkxp,
I did my training all modular and came out with the same pieces of paper in the end as any intergrated fATPL holder, for less than 1/2 the price (if it costs 100,000!! above)

2 years! - PPL for 6200, 45hrs
6months - ATPL groundschool fulltime Cabair 2250 + living exp. = 3,200 (good name, would recommend groundschool @ Bournemouth).
5months - Hour building @ 70ph + landing fees etc = 8500 - UK based
3months - Multi CPL/IR at PAT, Bournemouth = 26,000inc exams - (great name, instructors) + living exp.1,600
1 week - MCC @ European = 1,900 living exp 120

Modular route......priceless!
(Total: 48,170)

under 15months taken out from completing PPL.
200.1 hours total.

I think my training was picking the best of each stage in my view. The level of training was as high as I believe it can get and I feel that each training organisation above was providing a tailor made course to suit my needs.
At the end of the day though I am not guaranteed an interview, as I believe some intergrated course offer, but I would prefer to go to an interview saying I managed my training on both cost and a hight level of training, than to turn up to an interview that was included in a package.

In answer to your question, I would have 51,830 left for a Type Rating until im evens with a intergrated students price.
If only I had that money left over!

Thought this may be of some interest. Good luck with the training.
G-FATTY is offline   Reply
Old 26th Jan 2010, 07:33   #2 (permalink)
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Modular is much cheaper than Integrated - look

I've created this thread by lifting a post from a thread in the other forum where G-Fatty makes a wonderful contribution.

48,000 is an achievable budget right here, right now, to get you CPL/IR Multi Frzn ATPL MCC and all from high quality training providers and all in the same time you'd spend on a full time course.

I don't think you can 'do' Oxford or CTC for less than 75k.

27,000 buys you an awful lot of time to keep your ratings valid. It would easily cover twice over the cost of getting a type rating on a turboprop having got the nod from a small regional operator.

A much much better proposition than being the bitch of a lo-co crewing department on part time wages with zero security and no long term permanent job or benefits. Whilst having to pay back 100k loan for added misery.

For two and half years I have been shouting myself horse advising people they'd be mad to sign up to an Integrated course of any description or brand. Clearly many people ignored that advice and the reasons given and still do.

Many of them now find themselves wedged between bankruptcy, a debt/interest mountain, pay to fly 'job' offers on part time contractor terms - or let their licenses lapse and walk away a heavily indebted failure. The schools sold them the dream of a smart pilots uniform. Those uniforms though were all crotchless because the airlines were always going to be grabbing their b0llocks - not shaking their hand.

Go modular. Muppets.


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Wee Weasley Welshman is offline   Reply
Old 26th Jan 2010, 07:37   #3 (permalink)
 
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Didn't even pay that much....could buy a 40 grand TR (not that I ever would) and would still be below the OAA integrated price tag.

(oh, I have 250hrs too...bless the US ...all I am saying - do your homework, don't fall for the shiny brochures)
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Old 26th Jan 2010, 07:51   #4 (permalink)
 
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WWW, never has such good advice been so widely ignored.

I would think you could do it cheaper than that, if you went abroad for the hour building.
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Old 26th Jan 2010, 08:44   #5 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
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I applied to CTC last summer and changed my mind, finally went modular as I already own a PPL (which I paid 4500).
The whole thing, excluding the PPL, comes to a cost of 38,000 including hoursbuilding in the States, flight to the US and back, night rating, ATPL ground school, CPL and IR ME and MCC on a full-motion 737 simulator.
I bought a car with 3 other guys for 150 ...
It is always possible to go cheaper
golfcharlie232 is offline   Reply
Old 26th Jan 2010, 08:56   #6 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: HAMBURG
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yes you will get a better value for your money
for exampel:

PPL(JAA) US = 4500 euro
ATP Knowledge(CATS) 1200 euro
H Building US = 5000 up to 7000 euro
FAA IR/MEP = 8000 euro
JAA CPL(USA) = 2500 euro
Conversion = 5000 euro
Mcc = 2000 euro

total amount = 30000 euro plus travell and living and uk exam fees
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Old 26th Jan 2010, 09:02   #7 (permalink)
 
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Here are my costs including accommodaton, flights etc etc, without an MCC though. During this all this I worked full time, apart from four months unpaid leave during the CPL and MEIR. (another thought to consider if you are going to go full time integrated)

PPL
  • first 30 hours free, RAF scholarship
  • 15 hours plus exams 1000
Initial Class 1 Medical
  • Medical at Gatwick 317
  • Flights to Gatwick 65 Hotel 40
ATPL Groundschool
  • CATS online course 999
  • flights to Birmingham for 3 brush up weeks 380
  • Train fares Birmingham to Cranfield 120
  • Bed and Breakfast in Cranfield 3 weeks 368
  • Exam fees for 14 exams (to the CAA) 868
PPL Renewal at CATS
  • 5 hours of flying including exam 600
  • Exam fee 168
  • 7 PPL exams 140
  • CAA renewal fee 67
IMC and Night Qualification at Fly in Spain

IMC
  • 15 hours plane rental 2239
  • 15 hours instruction 699
  • landing fees 174
  • Instrument approach fees 42
  • Exam Fee 200
  • Written exam fee 50
  • Plane hire for exam 217
  • TOTAL 3621
Night qualification
  • 5 hours plane rental 745
  • 5 hours instruction 245
  • TOTAL 1070
  • Membership of Fly in Spain 40
  • Chart of Spain 10
  • Accomodation 200
Hour Building with Big red Kite
  • 80 hours at 79.10 (this includes, oils, avgas, parking and landing fees) 6328
  • Hotels 180
  • Flights 90
CPL at Tayside Aviation Dundee
  • CPL Course 5500
  • Extra Lessons and test hire 1372
  • Solo hire of plane (to and from exam centre) 188
  • Solo hire of plane (currency) 188
  • simulator hire 90
  • Exam Fees 1271
  • CPL TOTAL 8609
MEIR at Aerodynamics, Malaga
  • MEIR course (this includes exam, landing and approach fees) 10165
  • Accomodation 700
  • Flights 340
  • MEIR TOTAL 11,120
TOTAL 36,932
Dane-Ger is offline   Reply
Old 26th Jan 2010, 10:14   #8 (permalink)
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My rough calculations suggest that if you were to go the CTC route into easyJet you would take home on an average month for the whole year about 1,800 but your monthly loan repayment would be around 1,200.

You'd be living on 600 a month. You'd have A320 time in your logbook. But you'd be living on less than a grand a month for the first three years and who knows if you'd get a permanent job or merely be replaced by another person waiting to write a fat cheque for the type rating?

Both Ryanair and easyJet stop expanding their fleet by 2013 under current plans made public. No expansion means they only need a trickle of new FO's to replace those promoted to Captain who replaced those who retire or lose their medical each year.

The boom years are over.

Adjust your expectations, plans and budgets accordingly.


WWW


ps Feel free to post your training expenditure breakdowns on this thread - it reinforced the point and makes for an interesting and useful sticky.
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Old 26th Jan 2010, 10:25   #9 (permalink)
 
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Are those calculations based upon taking out a loan for the full amount?
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Old 26th Jan 2010, 10:31   #10 (permalink)
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On being 100k in debt which was achieved by a 10 year loan at 7% being 1,161 per month plus fees.

Total repayment 139.3k in exchange for a licence and type rating you can get elsewhere for 60k cash...



WWW
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Old 26th Jan 2010, 11:10   #11 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
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I won't post a full breakdown because others have done much the same already.

However, three main areas where I saved money but many people fritter it away:

Groundschool and Theory Exams: Distance learning. Probably about a quarter the price of the equivalent residential classroom course. Anyone with a bit of self-motivation should be able to get themselves through the groundschool without being spoon fed by an instructor.

Hours building: Bought a share in a vintage light aircraft in the UK. 30 per hour to fly (inclusive of fuel and landings), instead of amy 120/hr for a dull C152. I can always sell the share and get my capital back but I'm choosing to keep it because this little aeroplane is good, old-fashioned, cheap fun.

Accommodation: Most people seem to pull out their bank loans and pay through the nose for hotels etc then moan about the costs. If you do a bit of homework you can generally find somewhere quite reasonable to stay for 10-15 per night even near big UK airports. Get off your ar$e go for a drive around nearby villages and look in newsagents windows for rooms and flats to let.
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Old 26th Jan 2010, 11:16   #12 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Posts: 63
Very interesting reading... when was G-FATTY's training.. how old are those prices?

What about Dan-Ger? - When are those prices from?

Ta.
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Old 26th Jan 2010, 12:11   #13 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Quote:
Both Ryanair and easyJet stop expanding their fleet by 2013 under current plans made public. No expansion means they only need a trickle of new FO's to replace those promoted to Captain who replaced those who retire or lose their medical each year.

The boom years are over.
Will be interesting to see what happens to the market forces when this happens, as I would hazard a guess that fr wont take on brand new FO's after they have taken delivery of the last 737, but revert back to their old requirement which i believe was 1500 hrs a few years ago, although could be wrong.

Great thread, hope it opens the zoombie muppets eyes a bit wider.

Go modular!! If I am not mistaken can you not even do all the same modules (CPL, IR etc) modular at OAA and still save a packet off the integrated cost?
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Old 26th Jan 2010, 12:20   #14 (permalink)
 
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Yes you can. Same school. Same qualification. Less than half price. Tricky decision, eh.
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Old 26th Jan 2010, 12:25   #15 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
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I hate to say it - but if that is the case it shows just how bright some of these sky gods are..Why on gods earth would someone pay that difference!! idiots!

Half of their spin is because the school is at oxford, without doubts it envokes images of the university and mummy and daddy are so proud little johhny went to oxford, didnt he do well.

I bet a school in wolverhampton would not be able to charge those fees!!
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Old 26th Jan 2010, 14:25   #16 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
What about Dan-Ger? - When are those prices from?
started ATPL theory 2008, IMC and night rating feb 2009, Hour building, CPL and MEIR from April to August 2009.
Dane-Ger is offline   Reply
Old 26th Jan 2010, 17:15   #17 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
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A very informative read for one of your beloved "zombie wannabes" to take in. I think ever since I started participating in PPRuNe, I've been modular all the way! To be honest, I struggle to see the pull of integrated when schools like Stapleford and Multiflight are offering zero to fATPL courses in 18 months for 30,000-50,000. I'm no genius but twenty or thirty grand isn't to be sniffed at for brand name (might just pay the SSTR one seems required to do to get a job now). I don't support SSTR by the way!

Just a quick question from someone with plenty of time to play with (14 now, 4 more school years and possible 3 at Uni). Is it beneficial doing a degree and doing some sort of hour building/CPL training seperate from your University studies (money permitting)?

Sorry if I appear naive in what I write. I'm asking all this just as I begin my GCSE Option choices so I'm trying to plan ahead with regard to at what point I intend to do flight training and what qualifications I'm going to try and get.

Thanks for posting the figures, they were very interesting,
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Old 26th Jan 2010, 17:29   #18 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 80
hi Everyone,

Just said Id throw this in! First off I agree with going modular as I did so myself. I did my PPL in a flying club very cheaply and it was the best flying I have done.

However, talking to a pilot involved in recruitment lately he told me there getting so many applications that they all initially go into a computer. The computers job is to filter them down. So it looks for kep works like maybe first time pass etc and it also goes off a list of flight schools. So if the school you trained at isnt on the list, chances are your application will never be seen by a real person and will be deleted there and then by the computer!

As I said Im all for modular I did modular myself but its an interesting point he made.
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Old 26th Jan 2010, 18:08   #19 (permalink)
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A pilot involved in recruitment?

Was he actually on the recruitment team? Because people who claim to be involved with something are often found to be quite a long way away from the action.

Who enters this data in these computers?

Who monitors the legal requirements regarding discrimination law with its huge penalties?

Sounds like bullshit to me.


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Old 26th Jan 2010, 18:33   #20 (permalink)
 
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I bet it was Flybe.
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