Job Market
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nope im pretty sure it wasnt a joke,,, looks like a question to me....
You'd think these airline lads would shed a bit more light on the situation,,, We all know its bad,,, ' the dogs on the street are barking that one', but all is asked is a bit more accuracy on the industry than what ITV or BBC report on the news.....
thats basically it....
To answer the question please give proper answers, Negative or Positive, NOT answers like 'must be a joke'
Remeber there are people just starting out that wouldnt have a notion about the industry so try and have a bit of consideration for them... It is the start of a new thread, which people are already jumping on to kill it..
Wannabe myself, Hearing about the situation from as they say 'the horses mouth' is very much appreciated. What is not appreciated is cheeky arrogant
that are in the airlines and have no consideration for people looking to get in...
G-XO answer is more appreciated....
Rember every needed advice from within the industry to get where they are today,, JUST REMEMBER
RANT OVER
You'd think these airline lads would shed a bit more light on the situation,,, We all know its bad,,, ' the dogs on the street are barking that one', but all is asked is a bit more accuracy on the industry than what ITV or BBC report on the news.....
thats basically it....
To answer the question please give proper answers, Negative or Positive, NOT answers like 'must be a joke'
Remeber there are people just starting out that wouldnt have a notion about the industry so try and have a bit of consideration for them... It is the start of a new thread, which people are already jumping on to kill it..
Wannabe myself, Hearing about the situation from as they say 'the horses mouth' is very much appreciated. What is not appreciated is cheeky arrogant
that are in the airlines and have no consideration for people looking to get in...G-XO answer is more appreciated....
Rember every needed advice from within the industry to get where they are today,, JUST REMEMBER
RANT OVER
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From a low-hours point of view, the situation is pretty awful. I graduated from my FTO in June. At the time, the only people recruiting low-hours pilots were BA and Ryanair, with the odd trickle of people going to the likes of Tyrolean, Air Southwest and Flybe.
The situation now is that BA have ceased recruiting low-hours pilots for the moment. Given that they have been told to reduce the management headcount by 30% by Christmas, I think it is unlikely that they will start recruiting pilots in the near future. As I understand it, they have honoured all interviews that were promised, however people succeeding at recent selection boards (& JOC) have been placed in the hold pool.
I don't know exactly the situation at Flybe, but I haven't heard of anyone getting a place there of late.
Ryanair have now stopped recruiting until the Spring at least. They have filled all TR courses, with the last one starting at Stockholm in mid Oct. They currently have triple the number of usual applicants following the collapse of XL et al.
Tyrolean have gone very quiet but in any case, the number of UK low hours pilots getting places has been very small.
I know of one person getting a job at Air Southwest in the last few weeks.
That's basically it, to my knowledge.
The situation now is that BA have ceased recruiting low-hours pilots for the moment. Given that they have been told to reduce the management headcount by 30% by Christmas, I think it is unlikely that they will start recruiting pilots in the near future. As I understand it, they have honoured all interviews that were promised, however people succeeding at recent selection boards (& JOC) have been placed in the hold pool.
I don't know exactly the situation at Flybe, but I haven't heard of anyone getting a place there of late.
Ryanair have now stopped recruiting until the Spring at least. They have filled all TR courses, with the last one starting at Stockholm in mid Oct. They currently have triple the number of usual applicants following the collapse of XL et al.
Tyrolean have gone very quiet but in any case, the number of UK low hours pilots getting places has been very small.
I know of one person getting a job at Air Southwest in the last few weeks.
That's basically it, to my knowledge.
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Flybe are concentrating just now on converting the embraer crews onto the Dash. That may take a little while yet to see through. Im led to believe(I stand to be corrected however) there is still a small(albeit very small!) trickle of other pilots being recruited.
I think easyjet may have a trickle being taken on but all in all no major recruitment.
Ryanair, as someone else has mentioned, appear to have stopped recruitment til Spring.
BA have closed doors just now.
As for the charter's, I guess we'll have to wait and see what the schedules for next summer bring. The likes of Jet2 etc will presumably be deciding within the next couple of months what recruitment they will need for next year. With Xl bust however, I think we all know there's plenty 737 guys hunting for jobs. Theres also the CTC guys who are all in hold pool's too.
As for the Turboprop jobs, not easy to get into with 250 hours. They still seem to favour higher hours due to the quicker command potential. Again though, I dont think theres much movement just now. I know of the odd 1 who's went to the likes of eastern but all in all, not much doing.
With regards to the OAA schemes i.e. Netjets etc....i've got no idea whats happening there. Im sure someone else might be able to fill in the blanks.
As a suggestion to other's, you may wish to think of subscribing to the likes of BALPA and perhaps the Independent Pilots Assosciation. The IPA have up to date info on most airlines. You'll find out all the industry news and recruitment plans(if any) there, including contact details etc.
If you check the likes of Flighglobal on a daily basis, you can get a feel for things there too. This morning brings abot 5 - 6 pages of recruitment - nearly all China, Vietnam, India. That says it all really about the situation in Europe!!
I think easyjet may have a trickle being taken on but all in all no major recruitment.
Ryanair, as someone else has mentioned, appear to have stopped recruitment til Spring.
BA have closed doors just now.
As for the charter's, I guess we'll have to wait and see what the schedules for next summer bring. The likes of Jet2 etc will presumably be deciding within the next couple of months what recruitment they will need for next year. With Xl bust however, I think we all know there's plenty 737 guys hunting for jobs. Theres also the CTC guys who are all in hold pool's too.
As for the Turboprop jobs, not easy to get into with 250 hours. They still seem to favour higher hours due to the quicker command potential. Again though, I dont think theres much movement just now. I know of the odd 1 who's went to the likes of eastern but all in all, not much doing.
With regards to the OAA schemes i.e. Netjets etc....i've got no idea whats happening there. Im sure someone else might be able to fill in the blanks.
As a suggestion to other's, you may wish to think of subscribing to the likes of BALPA and perhaps the Independent Pilots Assosciation. The IPA have up to date info on most airlines. You'll find out all the industry news and recruitment plans(if any) there, including contact details etc.
If you check the likes of Flighglobal on a daily basis, you can get a feel for things there too. This morning brings abot 5 - 6 pages of recruitment - nearly all China, Vietnam, India. That says it all really about the situation in Europe!!
Last edited by MIKECR; 19th Sep 2008 at 11:21.
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What's going on with the airline job market at the moment then?
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You really want the view from inside the industry?
The UK job market is as bad as it's been since 9/11. With XL falling over, after Maxjet, EOS, Silverjet and Zoom, you have in excess of a couple of hundred experienced jet pilots out of work. You are now competing with them for jobs. I would be amazed if XL are the last British carrier to go bust, so I believe the situation will get worse before it gets better. The four biggest employers of pilots in the UK are B.A., Ryanair, Easyjet and Flybe. None of them are recruiting FOs in any significant numbers. The schools are still churning out CPLs and IRs, so the ratio of jobs to CVs is getting smaller and smaller.
Regarding the wider economy (which drives the airline industry), the truth is that nobody knows, but it is very difficult to be optimistic. People are fearful for their jobs, and are suffering near-record fuel prices and steep inflation in both energy and food bills. You don't need to be a genius to work out that many holiday plans will be put on hold, be they weekend breaks in Europe or two weeks in the sun. That does not bode well for air travel, especially when airlines themselves are being hit so hard by high fuel costs.
I know everyone desperately wants to hear good news, but a few people seem to be in outright denial. This is an awful time to be spending money on commercial flying training. If you are not already committed, bide your time, slow down your training or studying, and try and think in terms of finishing the IR in two or three years time.
The UK job market is as bad as it's been since 9/11. With XL falling over, after Maxjet, EOS, Silverjet and Zoom, you have in excess of a couple of hundred experienced jet pilots out of work. You are now competing with them for jobs. I would be amazed if XL are the last British carrier to go bust, so I believe the situation will get worse before it gets better. The four biggest employers of pilots in the UK are B.A., Ryanair, Easyjet and Flybe. None of them are recruiting FOs in any significant numbers. The schools are still churning out CPLs and IRs, so the ratio of jobs to CVs is getting smaller and smaller.
Regarding the wider economy (which drives the airline industry), the truth is that nobody knows, but it is very difficult to be optimistic. People are fearful for their jobs, and are suffering near-record fuel prices and steep inflation in both energy and food bills. You don't need to be a genius to work out that many holiday plans will be put on hold, be they weekend breaks in Europe or two weeks in the sun. That does not bode well for air travel, especially when airlines themselves are being hit so hard by high fuel costs.
I know everyone desperately wants to hear good news, but a few people seem to be in outright denial. This is an awful time to be spending money on commercial flying training. If you are not already committed, bide your time, slow down your training or studying, and try and think in terms of finishing the IR in two or three years time.
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D O Guerrero,
Not having a dig but just out of interest how do you know how many applications FR have for pilots looking for work??
Another point I'd like to make (I maybe wrong on this) I know the current situation is not good at all but even if things were Rosy I can't see the airlines recruiting much coming up to winter anyway. IE the quietest to of the year for them.
I say hang in there and March/ April time well see the doors (maybe not as many as before) open again
A semi retired captain I know told me these airline set up and fold with the slightest down turn quiet regularly. The main players will ride it out and stand strong after.....
Keep the faith
Not having a dig but just out of interest how do you know how many applications FR have for pilots looking for work??
Another point I'd like to make (I maybe wrong on this) I know the current situation is not good at all but even if things were Rosy I can't see the airlines recruiting much coming up to winter anyway. IE the quietest to of the year for them.
I say hang in there and March/ April time well see the doors (maybe not as many as before) open again
A semi retired captain I know told me these airline set up and fold with the slightest down turn quiet regularly. The main players will ride it out and stand strong after.....
Keep the faith
PPRuNe Secret Agent!
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Celtic Pilot
In defense to our reactions to 'this question'.
One of the things i'm constantly amazed at is how little guys/gals actually know about what things are/whats going on. I met a PPL recently who was asking advice and is starting ATPL groundschool next year (or was!) who didn't know what a turbo-prop was!!!!
So, sorry, don't agree with you - With the loss of Zoom and the huge publicity the loss of XL has received in the past few weeks (XL even made it large onto 'Mock The Week' last night) Does someone training or have the ambitions to be a pilot really need to ask how the job market is???!!!!
To become an 'airline lad' i'm afraid your gonna just have to get with it a bit more, harsh I know but this is ruthless cut throat stuff, 1000's just like you fighting for the same jobs, all with the same qualifications - why should an airline employ you over him/her?!? And all this just to get to the interview stage to put your point across...
Redsnail has listed some good pointers on the last few pages of the 'Upturn' thread which are worth a look over...
G SXTY is correct, low houred recruitment is and will be for approx 4 to 5 years zero! PM me and i'll happily fill you in on my sector!
In defense to our reactions to 'this question'.
One of the things i'm constantly amazed at is how little guys/gals actually know about what things are/whats going on. I met a PPL recently who was asking advice and is starting ATPL groundschool next year (or was!) who didn't know what a turbo-prop was!!!!
So, sorry, don't agree with you - With the loss of Zoom and the huge publicity the loss of XL has received in the past few weeks (XL even made it large onto 'Mock The Week' last night) Does someone training or have the ambitions to be a pilot really need to ask how the job market is???!!!!
To become an 'airline lad' i'm afraid your gonna just have to get with it a bit more, harsh I know but this is ruthless cut throat stuff, 1000's just like you fighting for the same jobs, all with the same qualifications - why should an airline employ you over him/her?!? And all this just to get to the interview stage to put your point across...
Redsnail has listed some good pointers on the last few pages of the 'Upturn' thread which are worth a look over...
G SXTY is correct, low houred recruitment is and will be for approx 4 to 5 years zero! PM me and i'll happily fill you in on my sector!
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They aren't saying there won't be any, just that's the numbers are going to be very very slim. We don't know what the economy is going to be like in 4-5years time, but at present it's looking poorly until at least 2010 maybe longer.
Not a good time to go looking for a pilots jobs, It's that bad I've decided to extend my studies at University by a year or two to let the market calm down.
Not a good time to go looking for a pilots jobs, It's that bad I've decided to extend my studies at University by a year or two to let the market calm down.
Supercharged PPRuNer
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Wow, no low hour pilots recruited for 5 years...Not a single one!!
Guys, with the greatest respect, I was a wannabe for nearly 8 years, and I often used to cringe at some of the posts and responses on here. I can understand naive posts from schoolkids who have no idea what is going on in the industry, but when someone who is supposedly just starting an integrated course asks questions like:
What's going on with the airline job market at the moment then?
Shooting the messengers and posting sarky comments will not help your case.
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G SXTY,
I completely agree with you that recruitment will be a lot slower than it has been. I also feel that people starting training now should strongly consider keeping a full time job and going modular rather than putting all their egg's into one basket.
I just find a lot of people who post on this site tend to look on the dark side of life (not all but quite a few). The way people talk is like there is no industry any more! I flew from Gatwick this month....Didn't appear any busier or quieter than before. People will still retire and move on. There will always be some demand for new pilots even if it is slower than the previous years.
Yes it will take longer to get a job but I think comments like 'no low hour pilots will be recruited for 5 years' won't help either!
I completely agree with you that recruitment will be a lot slower than it has been. I also feel that people starting training now should strongly consider keeping a full time job and going modular rather than putting all their egg's into one basket.
I just find a lot of people who post on this site tend to look on the dark side of life (not all but quite a few). The way people talk is like there is no industry any more! I flew from Gatwick this month....Didn't appear any busier or quieter than before. People will still retire and move on. There will always be some demand for new pilots even if it is slower than the previous years.
Yes it will take longer to get a job but I think comments like 'no low hour pilots will be recruited for 5 years' won't help either!
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Question: How long before CTC get desperate in placing their cadets that they approach ryanair when they restart recruiting in 2009?!
...pushing all the normal integrated & modular bods out of the ryanair cadet market
...pushing all the normal integrated & modular bods out of the ryanair cadet market
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Yes it will take longer to get a job but I think comments like 'no low hour pilots will be recruited for 5 years' won't help either!
On top of XL and Zoom, what's that, about 400 to 500 experienced, type rated pilots? My airline is approx 90 pilots overcrewed for next summer to throw onto the pile...
Good luck..
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JBoo7, yes i can understand some comments in the forum and if I came across a ppl holder goin for commercial's that didnt know what a turboprop was, i'd throw him in front of one.. I now understand your point when you've been faced with (lack of knowledge)people like that which in my opinion dont reali deserve to be in the industry.....
But some people on here (minority) just do it to piss people off and then start a whole row over nothing and the whole point of the thread is missed...
some very valid comments been put on this forum, and advice is much appreciated, im a wannabe at the mo, the industry is **** but this is why i went to university in the first place,, just in case.... So if anybody in the future asks why bother go to university we'll all say '''well remember the economy back in 2008 +'''''
Didnt learn much here but all good arguement which I will agree now looking back was a pretty stupid question, and was incoming with comments.... But my point was that some people do ask valid questions in the wannabe section and although it may seem simple to professional pilots it may not to us wannabes...
THANKS for your advice experienced people... always appreciated with me....
But some people on here (minority) just do it to piss people off and then start a whole row over nothing and the whole point of the thread is missed...
some very valid comments been put on this forum, and advice is much appreciated, im a wannabe at the mo, the industry is **** but this is why i went to university in the first place,, just in case.... So if anybody in the future asks why bother go to university we'll all say '''well remember the economy back in 2008 +'''''
Didnt learn much here but all good arguement which I will agree now looking back was a pretty stupid question, and was incoming with comments.... But my point was that some people do ask valid questions in the wannabe section and although it may seem simple to professional pilots it may not to us wannabes...
THANKS for your advice experienced people... always appreciated with me....