GA pilots of the future...

[Pittsextra]

Step we agree it is the fault of those of us already doing it, or at least a failure - if indeed it is our responsibility to engage with no aviators.

Your second paragraph lists a bunch of aircraft all perfectly suited to the task you describe....expand the argument and you see the issue....

I own the Pitts and now want to use your Tiger Moth or perhaps some STOL Cub. All single engine, all tail draggers, in the UK tell me how I do that.

[thing]

Civvy & Thing - Are these youngsters you talk about going into General Aviation? Or are they looking at progressing to the heavy metals?

Mostly the latter; but whichever way you look at it, they are youngsters with a passion for flying. No one at their age takes out a loan for the sort of money you need for an APTL without being totally commited.

BUT - this is not to mean that older, fifties ish people may not become smitten with general aviation, and get involved!

As they indeed do. I was a glider pilot for years before I could afford, and I mean afford as in not just doing the minimum hours to keep the licence going but being able to afford to go flying regularly, to do my powered licence. I'm not in any way shape or form wealthy, I just give up some things to afford my flying and I think the majority of pilots in the UK are the same as me.

One fifties ish friend of mine has started his PPL purely down to the few pax trips he's had with me.

[lars667]

Hi. Newcomer from Norway here. In no way a professional pilot, but just soloed in a 172P, hopefully I'll have my PPL before Christmas The statistics over GA flight hours here indicates a decrease in ACs requiring a PPL or better, while hours for ultralights are skyrocketing. It also seems, from facebook groups I follow (ultra lights) that there's a lot of more "basic" aviation going on there. A lot more affordable for the general public, I guess. You have the fast composite planes with glass cockpits, but also a lot of privately owned cub replicas etc. For many, if you want the basic "stick and rudder" experience, PPL might not be the way to go. It's a lot easier and cheaper just to get a ultra light (here: micro) license and a 2-seater with nice STOL capabilities.

[alex90]

Hi Thing,

I think we completely agree on this, but I do feel that the attraction to "heavy metal flying" is a little different to the romanticism of the "general aviation flying" which I think I mentioned. Passion for aviation comes in many forms, some attracted to the military, some to the air transport, some to the air races, some to the bush flying, some to the float flying... etc... It does not mean that one cannot cross-over into the other, but the primary aim may limit one's ambitions in the various fields. A friend of mine is a pilot with the OrangeBuses and cares very little for general aviation at the moment. It is not to say that this may change in the future though! (I've been working on it...)

I am very glad to hear it! It would be such a waste to have general aviation fading to the history books. I try to persuade everyone I know to take it up (without trying to shove it down their throats) in the same way that you do, I take them up give them a feel for the controls, and show them what the possibilities are, take them to France for lunch, or something of the sort.

Maybe it shouldn't just be youngsters that we should target the "take someone up" challenge - maybe we should try to impart some of our passion to anyone!

[thing]

Maybe it shouldn't just be youngsters that we should target the "take someone up" challenge - maybe we should try to impart some of our passion to anyone!

As long as we remember not to bore the pants off of someone who is patently not, and never will be interested in flying! 'Choose wisely' I think the guy in Indiana Jones said.

I'll take youngsters with me if I'm going somewhere on my ownsome but it's surprising how many of them don't believe you at first when you say 'I'm off to xyz to pick something up, be gone for an hour do you want to come?'

What, you mean I can actually sit in an aeroplane at the front and did you say you'll let me have a go? Really?

It's easy to forget that the milk run to get one of your fleet serviced can change a kid's life completely.

[9 lives]

Your second paragraph lists a bunch of aircraft all perfectly suited to the task you describe....expand the argument and you see the issue....

I own the Pitts and now want to use your Tiger Moth or perhaps some STOL Cub. All single engine, all tail draggers, in the UK tell me how I do that.

Those of us who have access to any aircraft, particularly those less commonly available to infrequent or wannabe pilots should make more effort to enable the "experience". Hopefully this means being overt in offering rides. Let the new people get bit not only by the flying bug, but many bites by different species of the bug. Show them that's there's more out there than just a 172 or PA-28. Sure, those are adequate planes, and maybe are their end objective, but allow a more broad experience for more pilots.

In the larger picture, new pilots, who are bitten by the bug beyond the 172/PA-28 should be mentored into seeking out flying opportunities in these other types. If there is a demand, a supply will make itself available. If people want to learn to fly in a Citabria, and enough of them seek this out, someone will make the plane available. If the club has one, and it never moves, they'll get rid of it.

More directly here, we experienced types should promote types more, and generalize and knock some types less. Being airborne is excellent, and the objective. I can make being airborne in a C-150, a 172 taildragger, a Super Cub on skis, a 180 on floats, an IFR 182RG, a glass cockpit 182 amphibian, or a flying boat each an excellent experience, though each in it's own way. Others here could delight me in a sailplane, a light jet, or a very light aircraft, or a high performance single. We do not advance our collective objective in promoting aviation by allowing newcomers to think of some aircraft as unworthy - they do not know the difference, so why prejudice them early?

If you're flying, even in a well worn 150, you're flying, and showing the interest, and we're happy to have you! If you grow with the 150 over the years, or trade up, delightful, keep flying.

[Piltdown Man]

Step Turn - I think you have described what this pastime requires - leaders, ambassadors, evangelists for the cause. It is a shame that so few people (general public, students and PPLs) are unaware that much that can be enjoyment that can be gained from some of the less "standard" forms of flight. I can remember a few flights in a Super Cub with the door off. Not very newsworthy, unless of course you were the passenger in the back who had never seen so much sky outside or so little between them and earth. Or a flights in glider we called the "Blue Brick" an ex-ATC tandem-tutor (T31) thermalling up in the middle of a thermal with the hot ships being left behind. It's trips like this and those suggested by Step Turn that sell flying.

PM

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Step Turn - I think you have described what this pastime requires - leaders, ambassadors, evangelists for the cause. It is a shame that so few people (general public, students and PPLs) are unaware that much that can be enjoyment that can be gained from some of the less "standard" forms of flight.

So how come all us aviators of my generation ached to get airborne, then to progress to interesting tailwheel types, strip flying, and aeros? We had no 'leaders, ambassadors, evangelists for the cause'. The drive came from within.

It has to, or it won't be sustained to push through all the tough times to achieve those things.

If anything, the received wisdom we faced was the opposite. It was saying 'you have to be a wealthy superman to even consider taking up aviation as a hobby', and for years I believed that. Took me a while to figure out that was bollox, then there was no stopping me!

If there's one message we need to get across to potential young flyers it's just that - that anyone can do it; wealth and super powers are entirely optional.

[Crash one]

Totally agree, my father wasn't interested in aircraft, my headmaster was a Quaker, dead against wars etc, most of my school mates were farmers sons.
Where did the passion come from?
Watching Spifires chasing doodlebugs at the age of 3?

[9 lives]

So how come all us aviators of my generation ached to get airborne, then to progress to interesting tailwheel types, strip flying, and aeros? We had no 'leaders, ambassadors, evangelists for the cause'. The drive came from within.

Well, yes and no....

Yes, my drive came from within. Aside from my mum teaching me to make balsa models, it was all me. But I was certainly inspired by what other pilots did. They lead, and whether knowingly or not, were ambassadors and evangelists for the cause. As I presented myself to aviation, many inspirational pilots generously mentored me, and were personal ambassadors for aviation. Whatever their motivation, one on one to an eager youngster, they drew me in.

Now drawing me in was pretty straight forward, the only competition to aviation was two black and white TV channels, and caring school teachers who really tried. Aviation won for me, the competition was insignificant.

Now, anyone can watch what they want on all kinds of media, surf the 'net for hours, or "fly" any aircraft type one can imagine, on their computer. Can the very basic panel of a Cub compete with three screens of glass cockpit on your desk? Those three screens are not an hour's drive from home, and they are not cold and damp. And the computer [generally] does not go mechanical after you've arrived, but before you can fly it.

We, the oldtimers, who got here with hardly any other distraction, must now inspire the next generation, and distract them back!

[Pittsextra]

All very noble and touching but as I said before how do you that?

Its all very well being a generous old soul and providing free "passenger rides" to every waif and stray at your local airfield but clearly that isn't sustainable, and isn't that the great challenge in aviation?

Now I've taken the passenger ride and I took the time and spent some money to get a PPL. I even went and bought a Pitts. Now I find I would like to fly an RV or a Cub, perhaps some other machine someone could imagine.

So my mate has an RV its even based at my local airfield and I'd like to use it. The owner is happy for me to use his RV. The insurer is happy for me to fly it BUT of course the owner doesn't want to pay for my flying...

See the issue? And its purely self created by, dare I say, petty mindedness.

[IFMU]

Don't you guys have anything similar to this?
YEA - Youth Exploring Aviation - Poplar Grove Vintage Wings & Wheels Museum

Some of my neighbors and hangar neighbors volunteer. My kids have not been interested as we are already in Scouts and building our own airplane. I plan to volunteer there once my kids are off to college.

Us middle age and older folks don't need to recruit an army of young people to join us. We just need to train some young ambassadors who will do the job much more effectively than we can.

[velo84]

I think the main reason for decrease is GA pilots is due to the high costs. I have wanted to fly all of my life but only once I reached my 30's could I even consider it. I'm also sure a lot of people who start their PPL end up not finishing because the cost of flying plus all the hidden costs quickly start to spiral out of control. Now that I have been through the experience, it became apparent that when schools quote a price to get your PPL, really you should add another 30-40% on top of that because of all the extra hidden costs. Even things like landing fees, airfields charging £15 to £30 for a single landing just seems crazy. Another possible factor as well (at least for the UK) flying in the South of England can be quite stressful at times because of all the airspace, restricted areas, temporary airspace, danger area etc etc. Sometimes it becomes more of a chore than a fun flight because you have to plan your flight so carefully and sometimes at the last minute something comes up in the NOTAMs causing you to have to change your plans. On the cost front, there may be a glimmer of hope. Look at all the development being put into electric aircraft. Take the Pipistrel electric for example. It's a 2 seat trainer which supposedly costs 2 euro per hour in electricity to run. I'm sure that will also make all the eco-warriors (trying to shut down all the airfields) more happy if the planes are zero emission and a lot quieter.

[m.Berger]

Chore?
Not if you have wanted to do nothing else for fifty years. Some flights are less fun than others but every one is a privilege.