Cessna 150 checkist
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......but towbars, chocks and fuel caps are rarely mentioned on the approved checklist for an aircraft
The Cirrus pilot's checklists clearly stipulates removal of tiedown rope, tow bar removal and stow, etc.
3. Empennage
a. Tiedown rope_____Remove
7. Right Wing Forward and Main Gear
g. Chocks and Tiedown Ropes______Remove
9. Nose gear, Propeller, and Spinner
a. Tow Bar______________________Remove
Yes, it is elementary, but serves the purpose which is enhance situational awareness.
Had it been the cirrus pilot followed the checklist, the prop-strike could have been avoided.
WP
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Fair enough, I have never flown a Cirrus. It's the new way I suppose...
I write a number of Flight Manual Supplements, which are approved as a part of an STC on an aircraft. When I write these, I review them, and ask myself "what can I cut out of this, to make it brief, effective, and safe?". Airmanship has to play a part in getting and keeping a plane in the sky safely. The longer a checklist is, the more likely it'll be skipped or ignored. I focus on those things which will result in an unsafe situation if forgotten, and are unique to that aircraft, or class of aircraft.
I sure would rather add one item, of "controls free and correct" than four or so items of "remove control lock......". Chocks and tiedowns - nope! let the pilot feel the embarrassment of trying to taxi a restrained aircraft - they'll never forget that again!
If a new C 150 pilot would like to use a checklist to build airmanship, I'm good with that. It's a tool, not a crutch....
I write a number of Flight Manual Supplements, which are approved as a part of an STC on an aircraft. When I write these, I review them, and ask myself "what can I cut out of this, to make it brief, effective, and safe?". Airmanship has to play a part in getting and keeping a plane in the sky safely. The longer a checklist is, the more likely it'll be skipped or ignored. I focus on those things which will result in an unsafe situation if forgotten, and are unique to that aircraft, or class of aircraft.
I sure would rather add one item, of "controls free and correct" than four or so items of "remove control lock......". Chocks and tiedowns - nope! let the pilot feel the embarrassment of trying to taxi a restrained aircraft - they'll never forget that again!
If a new C 150 pilot would like to use a checklist to build airmanship, I'm good with that. It's a tool, not a crutch....
Avoid being complacent - Use checklists
A pilot parked an aircraft (a Cessna 172) at my home airport without enforcing a simple policy which is appropriately securing the aircraft wheels with required chocks and came back to find out that the aircraft became totaled and the only way to get back home was by a rental car (more than 5 hours of driving). The aircraft rolled back and hit a wall resulting in the destruction of the aircraft empennage structure.
Another pilot (a Cirrus pilot) learned a hard lesson when he forgot to remove the towbar before engine start and the resulting prop-strike was disastrous. Thousands of Euros lost due to complacency.
Both scenarios were clearly avoidable by following the checklist.
A pilot parked an aircraft (a Cessna 172) at my home airport without enforcing a simple policy which is appropriately securing the aircraft wheels with required chocks and came back to find out that the aircraft became totaled and the only way to get back home was by a rental car (more than 5 hours of driving). The aircraft rolled back and hit a wall resulting in the destruction of the aircraft empennage structure.
Another pilot (a Cirrus pilot) learned a hard lesson when he forgot to remove the towbar before engine start and the resulting prop-strike was disastrous. Thousands of Euros lost due to complacency.
Both scenarios were clearly avoidable by following the checklist.
Both incidents would have been avoided by a normal post flight or pre flight walk around. There should be no need to have a piece of paper in your hand telling you what to look for in cases like these.
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Over a thousand hours in C150, never used or taught with written checklist, all memory items. That said, no problem with checklists - they are required with more complex aircraft.
The main thing to remember though is even in Airline flying : they are a CHECK list, not a DO list!
So, you configure the aircraft from memory, then use checklist to CHECK that you have done everything.
The main thing to remember though is even in Airline flying : they are a CHECK list, not a DO list!
So, you configure the aircraft from memory, then use checklist to CHECK that you have done everything.
The list BPF gave is pretty good, although there's quite a meal made of run up and pre- takeoff. I consolidate these into something like:
Hatches and harnesses - secure
Trim - set for take-off
Instruments - L to R and set (suction gauge on L is first port of call)
Mags - 1700, L, R, both (check rpm drop, and equality of drop on L, R)
Carb heat - check working, set cold, good engine idle
Flaps and controls - full free, correct sense
Radios, transponder - as needed
Brakes off
All clear
Most airplanes have at least one item peculiar to them which is why I don't like generic checklists. For example your check list does not address the primer. If it is not locked in fuel will flow continually through it to the engine causing an excessively rich mixture, rough running and a significant loss of power. Not such a big deal on the C 172 but much more noticeable on the C 150 so it is an item that IMO should be explicitly addressed in the checklist.
Finally with respect to the runup, I am dismayed by how many pilots do the run up actions by rote with out any understanding of what they are checking and what to look for.
For example in the runup you check the mags and the left mag has a 40 RPM drop but the right mag has no drop at all. I have met many pilots who when presented with this situation think that they have an especially good right mag and they are good to go
Avoid being complacent - Use checklists
A pilot parked an aircraft (a Cessna 172) at my home airport without enforcing a simple policy which is appropriately securing the aircraft wheels with required chocks and came back to find out that the aircraft became totaled and the only way to get back home was by a rental car (more than 5 hours of driving). The aircraft rolled back and hit a wall resulting in the destruction of the aircraft empennage structure.
Another pilot (a Cirrus pilot) learned a hard lesson when he forgot to remove the towbar before engine start and the resulting prop-strike was disastrous. Thousands of Euros lost due to complacency.
Both scenarios were clearly avoidable by following the checklist.
WP
A pilot parked an aircraft (a Cessna 172) at my home airport without enforcing a simple policy which is appropriately securing the aircraft wheels with required chocks and came back to find out that the aircraft became totaled and the only way to get back home was by a rental car (more than 5 hours of driving). The aircraft rolled back and hit a wall resulting in the destruction of the aircraft empennage structure.
Another pilot (a Cirrus pilot) learned a hard lesson when he forgot to remove the towbar before engine start and the resulting prop-strike was disastrous. Thousands of Euros lost due to complacency.
Both scenarios were clearly avoidable by following the checklist.
WP
What I see here is a confusion between use of SOP's and use of checklists. I teach that just before the student turns the key he/she calls out "clear, towbar out". What will occasionally happen is he will make the call and then say "wait I am not absolutely sure the tow bar is out". " Go look" is what I will tell them.
I have had a student come back to me several years later and say the habit of that stopped him from starting the engine with the tow bar still on. How that came to pass was the classic change of plan with the towbar removed and then just before getting in, a hangar door opened behind the airplane necessitating moving it followed by being distracted by questions from the passenger.
My point is that building those good habitual SOP's provides the required safety net without writing down everything. The same goes for chocking the airplane. From day one my student learns that you never walk away from the airplane without at lest one chock on the pilot side wheel.
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BPF, I take the point about the piece of paper you give to the guy on lesson 1, vs the more streamlined version you might encourage as they progress (once they actually know what they need to do with the DG etc).
My primer check is at the end of the after-start list although, to be totally honest, when I learned to fly a C150 in the warmish parts of Australia, the primer was hardly ever unlocked - some quick pumps of the throttle are enough to get the average 0-200 away. I later learned that this was viewed as a mortal sin (with some justification) but generations of muster pilots managed well enough.
I agree re the tow-bar and similar items: these are things you really have to build into to what you call SOPs but which I might call situational awareness at all times. For what it's worth, I never leave the tow bar attached to an aircraft if I'm not actually holding it: if I have to walk away, I put the tow bar in front of one of the main wheels where, if I do run over it (heaven forbid), it'll cause a small bump. It was something suggested to me early on and I never thought too much about it until, a few months ago, I saw an instructor about to start an Arrow with the tow-bar attached. We managed to attract his attention but it was a near thing.
And there's the famous US incident of the PA24 and the tow-bar, of course.
My primer check is at the end of the after-start list although, to be totally honest, when I learned to fly a C150 in the warmish parts of Australia, the primer was hardly ever unlocked - some quick pumps of the throttle are enough to get the average 0-200 away. I later learned that this was viewed as a mortal sin (with some justification) but generations of muster pilots managed well enough.
I agree re the tow-bar and similar items: these are things you really have to build into to what you call SOPs but which I might call situational awareness at all times. For what it's worth, I never leave the tow bar attached to an aircraft if I'm not actually holding it: if I have to walk away, I put the tow bar in front of one of the main wheels where, if I do run over it (heaven forbid), it'll cause a small bump. It was something suggested to me early on and I never thought too much about it until, a few months ago, I saw an instructor about to start an Arrow with the tow-bar attached. We managed to attract his attention but it was a near thing.
And there's the famous US incident of the PA24 and the tow-bar, of course.
Last edited by tecman; 18th Aug 2014 at 02:39. Reason: typo
In any case the C 150 POH does specifically allow it.
No, the original question was which checklist to go for.
"Hi everyone. I need to buy a Cessna 150/152 checklist. The issue is that I don't know which one to get, as there's Pooleys, AFE and Transair."
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The OP's question was where to buy a checklist. Four pages and 67 posts later and the question hasn't been answered.
The OP's question was where to buy a checklist. Four pages and 67 posts later and the question hasn't been answered.
MJ
Anybody with an interest or opinions about the use of checklists would get a lot out of reading a book called "The checklist manifesto" by Atul Gawande. He's the fellow who took aviation (and other) checklist practices and introduced them into surgery. A local version of the WHO Safe Surgery Checklist is now mandatory, I believe, in all NHS operating theatres and other versions used throughout the world. There are research papers to show that they've saved a lot of lives.
A further thought or three:-
Checklists can be used in three ways:-
(1) Read-do
(2) Do, confirm
(3) Challenge and response
So let's put the nonsense about never using checklists as a list of actions to carry out aside. Read-do, is a perfectly legitimate way to use a checklist, just not the only way, and may not sometimes be the best way.
However, one major advantage of a checklist, however used, is that it frees up a chunk of mental capacity to then spend on thinking about the stuff that really needs the skills and reasoning capacity of the expert (pilot, surgeon, stockbroker...). That comes across very clearly and well in Gawande's book, which is one of the most impressive books I've ever read about how to achieve professionalism.
Original poster - if you've not lost all will to live, I have access to somebody's personal system (sort of a checklist, sort of not) that I know works well in the C150, and I use in my instructing. If you want to PM me an email address and which model C150 you are planning to fly, I'll ask them if they'd email you a copy.
G
A further thought or three:-
Checklists can be used in three ways:-
(1) Read-do
(2) Do, confirm
(3) Challenge and response
So let's put the nonsense about never using checklists as a list of actions to carry out aside. Read-do, is a perfectly legitimate way to use a checklist, just not the only way, and may not sometimes be the best way.
However, one major advantage of a checklist, however used, is that it frees up a chunk of mental capacity to then spend on thinking about the stuff that really needs the skills and reasoning capacity of the expert (pilot, surgeon, stockbroker...). That comes across very clearly and well in Gawande's book, which is one of the most impressive books I've ever read about how to achieve professionalism.
Original poster - if you've not lost all will to live, I have access to somebody's personal system (sort of a checklist, sort of not) that I know works well in the C150, and I use in my instructing. If you want to PM me an email address and which model C150 you are planning to fly, I'll ask them if they'd email you a copy.
G
Moderator
The OP's question was where to buy a checklist. Four pages and 67 posts later and the question hasn't been answered.
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For a newish PPL, renting an unknown C150, the realelephant in the room has not been addressed.
having read many accounts on PPrune, I append a tongue in cheek addendum to exascot's "checklist.
A- Are SID's complied with?
Yes...go to 1
NO- B- Wings still firmly attached?
Yes. say prayers, go to 1
no... walk away alive.
C Main landing gear still attached?
Yes...say prayers go to 1
no... call scrapman
do not attempt to go to 1
Even though the aircraft has a Certificate of Airworthiness, the many horror-stories resultant from SIDS inspections, would suggest thatthese amazingly long-lived, robust aircraft are increasingly flying on the "excess-strength" margin.
having read many accounts on PPrune, I append a tongue in cheek addendum to exascot's "checklist.
A- Are SID's complied with?
Yes...go to 1
NO- B- Wings still firmly attached?
Yes. say prayers, go to 1
no... walk away alive.
C Main landing gear still attached?
Yes...say prayers go to 1
no... call scrapman
do not attempt to go to 1
Even though the aircraft has a Certificate of Airworthiness, the many horror-stories resultant from SIDS inspections, would suggest thatthese amazingly long-lived, robust aircraft are increasingly flying on the "excess-strength" margin.
Cockney Steve:
Are SID's complied with?
Are SID's complied with?
A couple of comments.
SIDS are only mandatory in the USA for Air Transport aircraft. If things were so bad why were they not made into an AD which is mandatory for all aircraft?
If an aircraft has been maintained properly, and looked after during its life so far, then the SIDS will generally not find anything of major concern.
With the aforementioned in mind, and knowing the penchant in the UK for doing things by the book, I'm surprised by your comment "the many horror-stories resultant from SIDS inspections"
The only horror stories have been the eye watering amounts that some owners have been charged for the work.
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I will put my hand up and say that I did over 1000 hours in SEP's without using a physical checklist.
Yes I did use them when told to during training.
All examinations in SEP's since then I haven't used them and its never been commented on including low digit exam call signs for FI tests.
The light aircraft stuff is quite bizarre how much stuff there is in them.
My work machine start checklist is 4 items.
TAxi 4 items
Lineup 5 items
After T/O 4 items
Decent 3 items
Appr 4 items.
Landing 6 items.
After landing is a flow.
And shut down is a flow.
Putting the aircraft to bed 6 items.
Yes I did use them when told to during training.
All examinations in SEP's since then I haven't used them and its never been commented on including low digit exam call signs for FI tests.
The light aircraft stuff is quite bizarre how much stuff there is in them.
My work machine start checklist is 4 items.
TAxi 4 items
Lineup 5 items
After T/O 4 items
Decent 3 items
Appr 4 items.
Landing 6 items.
After landing is a flow.
And shut down is a flow.
Putting the aircraft to bed 6 items.