Cessna 150 checkist

[Genghis the Engineer]

SSD, you are describing a badly designed and poorly used checklist. There is such a thing as a good short to the point checklist, used intelligently.

I'm the first to express my strong views about these daft massively overlong checklists used in some schools, but because bad practices exist, does not mean that good practices don't exist.



And from his age and question, I still think that the best advice we can give the OP, is to do what his instructor tells him, given that presumably he has strong ambitions to pass his skill test, before he starts copying the bad habits of cynical and over-opinionated PPLs !

G

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

cynical and over-opinionated PPLs

Oh. Right. But is that your over-opinionated opinion showing through?

I didn't have the distraction of internet forums back in the '70s, and went with the 'school flow' (including ludicrous C150 checklists) and got a near-minimum hours PPL.

But we were taught to THINK, and to TAKE COMMAND, and the first thing out the window post exam stage was that bluddy checklist! (second thing was the whizz wheel).

Today's studes will form their own opinions.... Given the data to evaluate.

[Genghis the Engineer]

I did my first PPL on microlights - mnemonics and no whizz wheel. Nowadays I use both, checklist and whizz-wheel WHEN they're useful. But rejecting both outright because you don't like how some people use them could be regarded in some lights as shortsighted ?

G

[Armchairflyer]

With Maoraigh1 on this one. In the aircraft I fly most regularly, I know the "flows" by heart now, but if I take one of the others I am (not that) current in, the checklist is very welcome and used.

SSD, if indeed checklists for garden variety SEP aircraft are so unnecessary, why is their use advocated and instructed (unlike for cars and motorcycles)? Sheer tradition? Someone making a profit of it? An evil checklist conspiracy? Agreed that it is not an action list to be blindly followed and that there is no need to make a ceremony of each item, but I don't agree with the assertion that they are simply unnecessary even in a simple SEP aircraft. (IMHO this position could even be linked to four of the five pilot's hazardous attitudes if one were so inclined, which would indeed hint at a certain lack of professionalism .)

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Armchair - they exist perhaps because they probably make initial PPL training simpler, or even possible; 'just do it by rote for now', as the raw stude has no background to 'think about it' rather than to 'follow the checklist'.

It's a bit like teaching 'stall speeds'. How else do you keep a stude safe on the approach other than by the mantra of 'stall speed'?

But there is of course no such thing as 'stall speed', only 'stall angle'.

But it's unrealistic to expect a stude to grasp the principle of stall angles at the beginning of a PPL course (heck, I know some very experienced pilots who haven't grasped it!), so teaching 'stall speeds' is the pragmatic method.

So it is with check lists.

But they should be simple, not multi-page affairs. And most important of all, they should be disposable, ditched out the window just like 'stall speeds', once the pilot has sufficient ability to think about what they are doing rather than doing it by rote.

[Armchairflyer]

Fully agree with the K.I.S.S. assertion, only (very) partly with the categorical "should be ditched out the window post-exam". They may not be necessary without exception, but even for experienced and thinking pilots they are a safety net and a helpful tool to prevent things from being overlooked and/or actions being omitted, especially in times of stress and/or distraction.

(As for "stall speeds", basically full ACK, but they are IMHO still a sufficiently accurate and helpful concept in most flight regimes.)

[Big Pistons Forever]

This is the checklist I made up for my last PPL student flying a C 150


Pre-Start

Pasenger Brief: Complete
Avionics & Electrical: Eq. Off
Circuit Breakers: In

Start

Fuel Selector: On
Mixture: Rich
Carb Heat: Cold
Throttle: Open 1/2"
Prime: As Required
Master: On
Beacon & Nav Lights: On
Prop Clear:

After Start

Throttle: 1000RPM
Ammeter: Zero
Oil Pressure: Rising
Brakes: Check

Pre-Taxi

flaps: Up
Transponder: Code & Standby
Altimeter & DI: Set


Run Up

Oil Temp. & Press: Green
Mixture: Rich
Throttle: 1700RPM
Suction Gauge: 4.5 - 5.4
Oil Temp. & Press: Green
Mags Check: 150RPM Max
Carb Heat: Hot
Mixture: Check
Throttle: Idle Check
Thottle: 1000RPM

Pre-Takeoff

Belts & Doors: Secure
Fuel Valve: On and Quantity
Trim: Set for T/O
Mixture: Rich
Flaps: As Required
Primer: Locked
Mags: Both
Carb Heat: Cold
Heading Indicator: Set
Controls: Free and Correct
Radio: Set
T/O Brief: Complete
Transponder: On
Landing Light: On


Cruise Check

Mixture: Leaned
Heading Indicator: Set
Landing Light: As Required
Flight Plan: Open

Descent & Approach

ATIS: Check
Fuel Quantity: Check
Mixture: Rich
Altimeter: Set
Oil Temp. & Press: Green
Approach: Briefed


Pre Landing

Mixture: Rich
Carb Heat: as req
Brakes: Check

After Landing

Flaps: Up
Carb Heat: Cold
Transponder: Off
Landing Light: Off

Shut down

Radios: Off
Mags: Cycle
Mixture: ICO
Master: Off
Electrical Switchs: Off
Flight Plan: Closed
Control Lock: Install

The checks follow a logical order so that they can be done as a flow. Checks where the airplane is stopped on the ground or in cruise flight are "Do" lists. That is the the student reads the item, does it and then moves on to the next. Checks where the airplane is moving are done as a flow and then when practicable the checklist is read to "check" that no items have been missed.

[piperboy84]

I have owned my current plane for 4 years, it's parked up next to the house, and flown every day the weathers allows. I am very familiar with all it's equipment and systems from both flying it and self-maintaining, included assisted annuals. I transposed the POH checklist into an excel spreadsheet broken out into flight phases and laminated in a 2"x 5" sheet that hangs from the yoke clamp directly in front of me, I go thru each and every item on the checklist every time I fly.

The reason is I'm a forgetful bugger who suffers from many "CRAFT" moments, and I almost killed myself many years ago by skipping a checklist item taking off from airport on the list below called Catalina

http://www.mediarockerz.com/2014/04/...rports-photos/

[27/09]

SSD: Simple aeroplanes don't need check lists any more than cars and motorbikes do. Most of those multi-page things for the likes of C150s and PA28s are folk who like to play at airline pilots (1970s airline pilots at that!).

Plus 1. The first checklist I used was during my IR.

Sure there was a list of DVA's that I had to learn but there was no written checklist in any of the aircraft I flew VFR before started my IR. Those aircraft included heavy singles, retractable and CSU aircraft.

[manuaros]

I guess there is no right or wrong answer here.
Basically I would say: everyone should do whatever you feel more confident with - either follow the checklist or not.

Me, personally, I do from memory:
- Start
- Taxi
- After take off
- App + landing

I always always stick to the checklist for the before take-off since I had an incident years ago because I skipped it.
Nothing happened, aside from the initial: "what the hell is going on".
I was cruising in a C172 and did some testing of the AP. Once the first leg was over and I was ready to go back home I forgot to check the trim in its T/O position. It was in a all forward nose down position. I was assuming a normal rotation and climb but obviously it was not.
Thankfully right 2 seconds after pulling the yoke I realised it was way too hard and noticed the trim. Nothing happened.
After that I never do from memory the before take off one. Which includes the trim re-check (as well as the before start).

I always follow the securing the airplane too, just to make sure I do not leave the MAS/ALT and standby BAT ON :-)

If I am flying a new aircraft, there's no way I always always follow the checklist.

Regarding instruction, I am all forward to have instructors to get you used to use follow checklist.
I think following a reasonable flow makes you safer up in the air, or at least the instructor can be sure that you are not going to avoid any important check, specially when the student is soloing.

TL;DR: If you have already passed your checkride: do whatever you feel safer with.

[dodos9]

Plenty of replies here! Whilst not even trying discuss whether or not checklists should be used (I'm a PPL holder with not more than 55 hours - not very experienced at all!) I am still going to use it. The vast majority of these replies don't exactly answer my question, but nevertheless I read each and every single one of them and thanks to anyone who replied in the thread! See, all I am is a PPL holder who has done his PPL on a PA-28 and who now, whilst on holiday abroad, wants to go ahead and rent a C150 - a plane which I have never flown before. Hence, I would feel very unsafe not having a checklist and therefore it's not a choice of whether to have one or not, but rather a choice of which one to use. One good reply was from Wood73, who said he has an AFE one and also mentioned what's in it - thank you! Another useful replies where from people recommending the ones from the POH, as these are the only ones approved- thanks again!
I rang the flight school and whilst they said they can easily provide me with a checklist, I might go for the AFE one for the time being in order to study it before I go there.
Once again, thanks to everyone who replied!
Regards
Dom

[funfly]

Why do people with good memories not accept that some of us have poor memories. We are not stupid (as my teachers used to think) but we do need written reminders - for us checklists are a must.

[SpannerInTheWerks]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but I think with low-hour PPLs in particular any recommendation that the checklist be:

ditched out the window just like 'stall speeds', once the pilot has sufficient ability to think about what they are doing rather than doing it by rote

is less than helpful.

Many PPLs fly on an irregular basis. It is not so much to do with 'sufficient ability' but 'sufficient experience'.

The old maxim of checklists on the ground and mnemonics in the air still holds good.

Try passing a flight test, whether private or commercial, without the use of a checklist and I'll guarantee you'd fail.

Surely that is the touchstone, not a view that because of brains and experience you are above it all.

Remember you're never too old or too experienced to have an accident.

Not using checklists can only serve to reduce safety rather than enhance it.

[tecman]

I would suggest to the OP that he find a minimal checklist (maybe from the POH), carry a written version, but do himself a favour and commit it to memory. It'll serve you well over many years of flying. Not to say you'll use the same checklist for every aircraft but the C150 checklist my instructor had me learn at the end of lesson 1 is still the basis of my checks 30 years later.

Also, although you're talking PPL, nothing shows a more professional approach when doing a check ride etc than having your checks under control. And that means not fumbling around with written checklists in the circuit, when your eyes should be outside. There are times when you're required to refer to written lists in more advanced flying, but the essential C150/172/etc checks are easily committed to memory.

The list BPF gave is pretty good, although there's quite a meal made of run up and pre- takeoff. I consolidate these into something like:

Hatches and harnesses - secure
Trim - set for take-off
Instruments - L to R and set (suction gauge on L is first port of call)
Mags - 1700, L, R, both (check rpm drop, and equality of drop on L, R)
Carb heat - check working, set cold, good engine idle
Flaps and controls - full free, correct sense
Radios, transponder - as needed
Brakes off
All clear

Obviously some important regional quirks. In many parts of Australia you don't want to be taxying or doing run-ups on dusty strips with the carb heat selected. But, equally, I can imagine that you need to be vigilant about carb ice in Canada or the UK. My only other suggestion is that the pre-start checks should always begin with "acceptable position". You'd be amazed at the number of people who apparently think it's OK to sandblast other aircraft, or blast dirt into open hangars.

Most of all, enjoy the flying

[150bugsmasher]

Dodos9 - I'd recommend the Surecheck brand of checklists. Always found them much more succinct than the AFE ones which can go on and on a bit, and they're better made/laminated, and a bit smaller (every millimetre counts in the c150!) the only downside is they're not massively available in europeland, but are well worth a US ebay order.

[worldpilot]

Aircraft parked without wheel chocks cost a complacent pilot total

Avoid being complacent - Use checklists

A pilot parked an aircraft (a Cessna 172) at my home airport without enforcing a simple policy which is appropriately securing the aircraft wheels with required chocks and came back to find out that the aircraft became totaled and the only way to get back home was by a rental car (more than 5 hours of driving). The aircraft rolled back and hit a wall resulting in the destruction of the aircraft empennage structure.

Another pilot (a Cirrus pilot) learned a hard lesson when he forgot to remove the towbar before engine start and the resulting prop-strike was disastrous. Thousands of Euros lost due to complacency.

Both scenarios were clearly avoidable by following the checklist.

I use both written and mental checklists all the time and it is a safety resource that I can't abdicate from using.

It is my understanding that using a checklist minimizes flight envelope risks and has little to do with simplicity of an aircraft configuration or complexity. The checklist is there to align the execution of operational procedures at appropriate times.

I don't see any reason why checklists should be "ditched" out.

Eliminate complacency from the cockpit!

WP

[RTN11]

Not sure a checklist would stop either of those, they are basic habit based behaviour, one should always chock an aircraft and never leave a tow bar attached when finished towing.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Worldpilot illustrates nicely why the 'checklist mindset' is an atedote to flight safety other than in complex multi-crew challenge-response scenarios.

Neither of those incidents say to me "he should have used a check list"; they say "he should have engaged his brain". Spanner - take note... and BTW, this:

Not using checklists can only serve to reduce safety rather than enhance it.

is total earwash.

Aeroplanes have thousands of ways to kill you. If you can devise a checklist that covers you against every one of those ways, good luck in implementing it. Me? I have a simpler, and far safer maxim: when dealing with aeroplanes, THINK! Think very carefully about what you are about to do, about what you are doing, and about what you just did. Observe carefully, and think again. Then think some more.

It's called airmanship and you won't find it on any checklist.

If you can't do that, go take up golf instead; this flying business ain't for you. The aeroplane will kill you with something your precious checklist didn't cover.

Oh, I just remembered. The Tiger Club used to (maybe still does) have an excellent cover-all checklist on the panel of all its aeroplanes. It said "All aeroplanes bite fools".

[SpannerInTheWerks]

SSD

Just out of interest, do you use a checklist when flying with an instructor/examiner as a part of your SEP renewal requirements?

[fireflybob]

A checklist is a tool to assist the pilot to manage the aircraft safely.

As SSD states a well rounded pilot also has to be thinking about what he/she is doing.

The checklist is not there to tell you how to do it but is there to ask the pilot "Have you done this?".

Some commercially produced checklists are full of errors which contravene the POH.

Am not against sensible use of checklists but as an instructor there are times in a students training where I take the checklist away from them as all too often they are being used as a prop for incomplete knowledge as to how to operate the aircraft.

Any pilot worth his salt should be able to safely operate a simple aircraft without a checklist.