CAA driving me nuts.
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CAA driving me nuts.
So it's taken 7 months approve the change of state for my JAR from a Swedish to a UK license. All this for £176.
Finally an email came through where they said they were ready to exchange my license and needed my Swedish JAA to be sent in. As I was in the US at the time I sent it by UPS and it arrived on the 17th of May.
Now having returned home recently I'd expected the new license to waiting for me in the post, but of course it wasn't. So I call.
"It can take 12 working days, but probably longer"
This was a number that sounded strangely familiar. It was the same time they'd quoted in the beginning for the change of state application. The one that in reality took 7 months.
So I rang back.
"No, the change of state has already been approved. All I need now is the new license to be printed and sent out"
"Oh, I see"
This worried me as it meant they actually didn't have the right information on their files and/or are clueless. Shouldn't they know this when you have a reference number?
"Well, you can come in before 12.00, get a waiting list number and get it done".
"Can I talk to the licensing desk to make sure it's OK to pick it up?"
"No, we don't connect to the licensing desk".
Alright, fine. But since I sent my license in by post and arranged for it to be sent out to my home, I just know that if I drive 2 hrs to come in they'll say
"Oh no, Mr Frisch, it can only be sent out by post now as that's how you sent it in. It's in process".
Has anyone got experience with this? They seem to be very badly clued in up there and the lady I was talking to was very aloof, like an old headmaster, just waiting to pounce on some minor flaw.
Are they always like this?
Finally an email came through where they said they were ready to exchange my license and needed my Swedish JAA to be sent in. As I was in the US at the time I sent it by UPS and it arrived on the 17th of May.
Now having returned home recently I'd expected the new license to waiting for me in the post, but of course it wasn't. So I call.
"It can take 12 working days, but probably longer"
This was a number that sounded strangely familiar. It was the same time they'd quoted in the beginning for the change of state application. The one that in reality took 7 months.
So I rang back.
"No, the change of state has already been approved. All I need now is the new license to be printed and sent out"
"Oh, I see"
This worried me as it meant they actually didn't have the right information on their files and/or are clueless. Shouldn't they know this when you have a reference number?
"Well, you can come in before 12.00, get a waiting list number and get it done".
"Can I talk to the licensing desk to make sure it's OK to pick it up?"
"No, we don't connect to the licensing desk".
Alright, fine. But since I sent my license in by post and arranged for it to be sent out to my home, I just know that if I drive 2 hrs to come in they'll say
"Oh no, Mr Frisch, it can only be sent out by post now as that's how you sent it in. It's in process".
Has anyone got experience with this? They seem to be very badly clued in up there and the lady I was talking to was very aloof, like an old headmaster, just waiting to pounce on some minor flaw.
Are they always like this?
Last edited by AdamFrisch; 28th May 2010 at 10:54.
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Welcome aboard!
There is a broader issue here, the more difficult they make it, the more chance you will (unknowingly) commit an offence and then they can take you to court and claim very extravagant costs.
jobs for the boys!
There is a broader issue here, the more difficult they make it, the more chance you will (unknowingly) commit an offence and then they can take you to court and claim very extravagant costs.
jobs for the boys!
the lady I was talking to was very aloof, like an old headmaster
No they are not Civil Servants!
The real problem is that all the cut backs of the last few years has left them devoid of competent management.
You could always right to the Chairperson (Dame Edna) and ask why they have failed to meet their declared targets. She's a food expert so you'll probably have to wait till she's finished her lunch!
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The CAA
Hi Adam,
I have no idea what can have possessed you to transfer your licence from a country with a long standing reputation for quiet efficiency to... er... the UK. However, now the damage is done you need to know a few basic rules for dealing with any department of British central government or any of the governent's stand-alone agencies such as the CAA.
I have a great deal of bitter experience of dealing with the Civil Service stretching back over a good many years. So the following rules have been learned the hard way.
First of all, whenever you send them anything by mail, always send it either by recorded delivery or by registered mail and keep a copy in a safe place together with the mailing receipt attached. This way, you have evidence of posting the item to them and also a means of tracking the item should they try to deny it ever arrived at their offices.
Secondly, never seek information over the telephone. Telephone conversations are deniable. Their minions will tell you whatever they think will please you just to get rid of you. If later you try to take them to task about something they said over the 'phone, they will either, pretend they don't know whom you could possibly have been speaking to, or else the person concerned will deny ever having said any such thing to you.
If you must speak to them over the 'phone, always take down the name and job-title of each person you speak to and make a written note of the conversation with the date and keep it in a safe place.
If you write to them and receive no reply within 21 days, write again, (by recorded delivery or registered mail,) enclosing a copy of the original item and demanding a reply. If again you receive no reply within 21 days, complain to the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman and/or your MP.
DON'T TRUST THEM AND NEVER GIVE THEM THE BENEFIT OF ANY DOUBT.
Good luck.
Broomstick.
I have no idea what can have possessed you to transfer your licence from a country with a long standing reputation for quiet efficiency to... er... the UK. However, now the damage is done you need to know a few basic rules for dealing with any department of British central government or any of the governent's stand-alone agencies such as the CAA.
I have a great deal of bitter experience of dealing with the Civil Service stretching back over a good many years. So the following rules have been learned the hard way.
First of all, whenever you send them anything by mail, always send it either by recorded delivery or by registered mail and keep a copy in a safe place together with the mailing receipt attached. This way, you have evidence of posting the item to them and also a means of tracking the item should they try to deny it ever arrived at their offices.
Secondly, never seek information over the telephone. Telephone conversations are deniable. Their minions will tell you whatever they think will please you just to get rid of you. If later you try to take them to task about something they said over the 'phone, they will either, pretend they don't know whom you could possibly have been speaking to, or else the person concerned will deny ever having said any such thing to you.
If you must speak to them over the 'phone, always take down the name and job-title of each person you speak to and make a written note of the conversation with the date and keep it in a safe place.
If you write to them and receive no reply within 21 days, write again, (by recorded delivery or registered mail,) enclosing a copy of the original item and demanding a reply. If again you receive no reply within 21 days, complain to the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman and/or your MP.
DON'T TRUST THEM AND NEVER GIVE THEM THE BENEFIT OF ANY DOUBT.
Good luck.
Broomstick.
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I'm starting to see my error in changing state...
Dying to go flying, but I'm not allowed to because my license is stuck in bureaucratic hell. Exactly how illegal is it to go flying without it physically in the aircraft?
Dying to go flying, but I'm not allowed to because my license is stuck in bureaucratic hell. Exactly how illegal is it to go flying without it physically in the aircraft?
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Broomstickpilot
There would seem to speak a man that has gradually be worn down like the rest of us
.
In terms of the CAA the only thought I can add if at all possible do everything in person - they seem to be very co-operative if you turn up and work things through over the desk.
There would seem to speak a man that has gradually be worn down like the rest of us
.In terms of the CAA the only thought I can add if at all possible do everything in person - they seem to be very co-operative if you turn up and work things through over the desk.
I always go personally to the Public Desk at the Belgrano. I must have made 5 or 6 visits over the last few years for one thing or another.
I have always had a friendly reception and have never been in there for more than 30 minutes and have always left with the problem resolved.
You cannot beat a face-to-face encounter (no pun intended).
Perhaps I have just been lucky?
I have always had a friendly reception and have never been in there for more than 30 minutes and have always left with the problem resolved.
You cannot beat a face-to-face encounter (no pun intended).
Perhaps I have just been lucky?
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I don't think its illegal to not have it in the plane( I never do) but the point is you have to check it to see if it contains any mistakes before you fly,and the only way to do that is by having it in your hand.
If you fly without having it and have an accident and it susequently turns up with mistakes you will not have been insured at the time of the accident as the onus is on you to check that you are legal before you fly.
Of course you wait in lovely weather only for it to arrive in perfect condition and then the weather craps out for 6 weeks!
If you fly without having it and have an accident and it susequently turns up with mistakes you will not have been insured at the time of the accident as the onus is on you to check that you are legal before you fly.
Of course you wait in lovely weather only for it to arrive in perfect condition and then the weather craps out for 6 weeks!
I don't think its illegal to not have it in the plane
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The UK CAA...
The UK CAA... Don't even get me started on these guys! I couldn't agree more with Broomstick and the others who have posted here: Adam, what have you done?
I find them the most uncompetent Aviation Authority I have ever dealt with, it truly leaves you a bitter taste when you get ripped off by their fees and get the "customer service" they provide, or should I say an complete void of customer service. Aloof? You must have meant snotty lady right? I have written about a dozen emails to them and not once they have been back to me within the 10 working days they claim.
Seems like we all should Transfer State to somewhere else!
I find them the most uncompetent Aviation Authority I have ever dealt with, it truly leaves you a bitter taste when you get ripped off by their fees and get the "customer service" they provide, or should I say an complete void of customer service. Aloof? You must have meant snotty lady right? I have written about a dozen emails to them and not once they have been back to me within the 10 working days they claim.
Seems like we all should Transfer State to somewhere else!
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She's a food expert so you'll probably have to wait till she's finished her lunch!
Of course the subsidy is paid from fee income.
It really gives me a warm feeling knowing that these idle and incompetent wasters are filling their faces at my expense.
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Dying to go flying, but I'm not allowed to because my license is stuck in bureaucratic hell. Exactly how illegal is it to go flying without it physically in the aircraft?
However, if your Swedish one is valid, then why can't you fly on that even if you don't have it in your hands. I assume you have a copy in case you need to prove validity.
ZA
Your licence is not valid until you have signed it; if the old one has been canceled, then you can only wait for the new one to arrive. I think the Chairman should be asked why it has taken 7 months to perform such a simple task! She can't improve things if she doesn't know what the problems are.
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An omission from my last post
Hi Guys,
In my last post I ought to have mentioned that before you can approach the Parliamentary Ombudsman, you have to exhaust any internal complaints procedure provided by the department concerned.
In my experience, these departmental complaints procedures are of limited value. Unless your complaint arises for something very simple and obvious, they tend to take the part of the officer against whom you are complaining.
However, if such a complaints procedure does exist, it must be used before you go to the Ombudsman.
Some guys have mentioned that you get better service if you go in person to the Belgrano. This is true, so long as you come away with whatever you have gone there for in your hot little hand. However, if you come away with a mere promise that the CAA will do something for you at some time in the future, then at least get the name of the person you spoke to and confirm whatever you have agreed to afterwards in writing.
I could write a book about all this, including about the Ombudsman, but I think I had better stop here. All this is not good for my blood pressure.
Regards,
Broomstick.
In my last post I ought to have mentioned that before you can approach the Parliamentary Ombudsman, you have to exhaust any internal complaints procedure provided by the department concerned.
In my experience, these departmental complaints procedures are of limited value. Unless your complaint arises for something very simple and obvious, they tend to take the part of the officer against whom you are complaining.
However, if such a complaints procedure does exist, it must be used before you go to the Ombudsman.
Some guys have mentioned that you get better service if you go in person to the Belgrano. This is true, so long as you come away with whatever you have gone there for in your hot little hand. However, if you come away with a mere promise that the CAA will do something for you at some time in the future, then at least get the name of the person you spoke to and confirm whatever you have agreed to afterwards in writing.
I could write a book about all this, including about the Ombudsman, but I think I had better stop here. All this is not good for my blood pressure.
Regards,
Broomstick.
Last edited by BroomstickPilot; 29th May 2010 at 06:42. Reason: 'forgot to mention something
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Lucky you don't have to deal with the Irish IAA (Institution Against Aviation !).
Their Airworthiness department is second to none, however their personnel licensing department is a complete and utter nightmare.
Their Airworthiness department is second to none, however their personnel licensing department is a complete and utter nightmare.
Last edited by jonkil; 29th May 2010 at 09:08.