Mr Skidmore Similar to Mr McCormick
Thread Starter
Look left. You say I should talk to the man in charge. Nearly two years ago I spoke to the minister about the flawed ADSB RIS process. He appeared concerned and said he would get back to me.
He did and said that he had been informed by CASA that as the process was completed in 2009 that it was now too late to do anything about the decision.
When I first met Mr Skidmore I explained that the ADSB RIS appeared to be a flawed document and the very credibility of CASA as an ethical organisation was at risk because of this.
There has not been a hint from CASA that the issue will be re looked at even though CASA people have told me that many within the organisation are convinced the RIS was not properly completed.
In about 18 months all aircraft which file an IFR flight plan in Australia will have to be fitted with expensive ADSB. This will cover small training aircraft in country areas that only fly in uncontrolled airspace . No country in the world has such a mandate. The aircraft will not be separated by ATC using ADSB- they will be given traffic information and use 1930s radio procedures to keep apart .
The very high costs of fitment will further damage the australian GA industry.
I will attempt to stop this happening by any legal and moral way available.
He did and said that he had been informed by CASA that as the process was completed in 2009 that it was now too late to do anything about the decision.
When I first met Mr Skidmore I explained that the ADSB RIS appeared to be a flawed document and the very credibility of CASA as an ethical organisation was at risk because of this.
There has not been a hint from CASA that the issue will be re looked at even though CASA people have told me that many within the organisation are convinced the RIS was not properly completed.
In about 18 months all aircraft which file an IFR flight plan in Australia will have to be fitted with expensive ADSB. This will cover small training aircraft in country areas that only fly in uncontrolled airspace . No country in the world has such a mandate. The aircraft will not be separated by ATC using ADSB- they will be given traffic information and use 1930s radio procedures to keep apart .
The very high costs of fitment will further damage the australian GA industry.
I will attempt to stop this happening by any legal and moral way available.
Last edited by Dick Smith; 4th May 2015 at 10:37.
Dick, check Gerard's real aviation qualifications..
CEO of Royal Qld Aero Club, CEO of Archerfield Airport neither of which were in the YBAF users a scintillating success. Then to CASA.....not a pilot/engineer but a university bred type..
CEO of Royal Qld Aero Club, CEO of Archerfield Airport neither of which were in the YBAF users a scintillating success. Then to CASA.....not a pilot/engineer but a university bred type..
Thread Starter
TBM I bet Gerard is a really decent bloke that has found himself part of a system that he has never experienced before.
He would have had the decision to answer my letter taken from him.
They have a weak minister who they know will not stand by them if they make changes. And standing out as an individual would be a career ending move.
Just imagine the low morale of working for the organisation. If you stood up as an individual for what was right you would likely be destroyed by the group think of the worker collective.
Let's hope it can be fixed before lives are lost.
He would have had the decision to answer my letter taken from him.
They have a weak minister who they know will not stand by them if they make changes. And standing out as an individual would be a career ending move.
Just imagine the low morale of working for the organisation. If you stood up as an individual for what was right you would likely be destroyed by the group think of the worker collective.
Let's hope it can be fixed before lives are lost.
You say I should talk to the man in charge. Nearly two years ago I spoke to the minister about the flawed ADSB RIS process.
When I first met Mr Skidmore I explained that the ADSB RIS appeared to be a flawed document and the very credibility of CASA as an ethical organisation was at risk because of this.
Your specific question was, is Skidmore similar to McCormick? As the man invited you to contact him if you have a problem and he has stated that he wants to listen to industry then I would say he is not. Can he unilaterally wind back the clock on ADS-B? Probably not but as you have said:
I will attempt to stop this happening by any legal and moral way available.
Last edited by Lookleft; 5th May 2015 at 01:06. Reason: The selected quotes now match the edited originals
I would like to make a number of observations in the interests of generating more light than heat.
Firstly Mr. Smith, I saw you at the Ark with the sceptic and Doug some years ago but avoided talking to you since you had a heap of science minded ankle biters in tow. I appreciate what you are trying to do and the logic that underpins it even though I am a mere PPL etc. etc.
Secondly. I am afraid you have fallen, like me, into the error when dealing with public servants of calling a spade a spade. This of course begs the question of whether CASA is public service or a statutory corporation and they jump from one side to the other when it suits them.
The answer you got was what passes for the classic response to a personal attack on a public servant. A public servant has no power. His career rests on his file and there had better be no blemishes.
The response you got is exactly what I would expect from an alleged attack on the integrity of a public servant. I say "alleged" because of the chameleon like behaviour of CASA - one minute dedicated limp wrested public servants merely giving effect to Government policy, the next independent leaders of the aviation safety movement on a mission from God.
To sum it up you wrote in the tone of voice to the "leader" and they quickly adopted the supine public servant role and that required Skidmores response.
One should have then asked the obvious question: If CASA are merely public servants worthy of AVM Skidmores spirited defence, then where did the Ukase regarding fitment of ADS=B come from? Obviously not the aforementioned Mr. Campbell, he is just by his own admission a clerical functionary and you should not have abused him.
This is the game CASA are very good at playing: Fearless Regulators bandleaders of the Safety crusade one minute and merely simple public servants doing the Governments will, the next.
P.S. Not that it would have produced a better result, the safest method of querying such decisions is to "fail to understand" which leaves room for face saving, but I'm sure you know that.
P.P.S. I would assume that any letter coming to CASA from Dick Smith would automatically be handled with Asbestos gloves. The only way out of this mess is via politics in my opinion. Aviation is just too hard for politicians unless they have their noses shoved in it.
Firstly Mr. Smith, I saw you at the Ark with the sceptic and Doug some years ago but avoided talking to you since you had a heap of science minded ankle biters in tow. I appreciate what you are trying to do and the logic that underpins it even though I am a mere PPL etc. etc.
Secondly. I am afraid you have fallen, like me, into the error when dealing with public servants of calling a spade a spade. This of course begs the question of whether CASA is public service or a statutory corporation and they jump from one side to the other when it suits them.
The answer you got was what passes for the classic response to a personal attack on a public servant. A public servant has no power. His career rests on his file and there had better be no blemishes.
The response you got is exactly what I would expect from an alleged attack on the integrity of a public servant. I say "alleged" because of the chameleon like behaviour of CASA - one minute dedicated limp wrested public servants merely giving effect to Government policy, the next independent leaders of the aviation safety movement on a mission from God.
To sum it up you wrote in the tone of voice to the "leader" and they quickly adopted the supine public servant role and that required Skidmores response.
One should have then asked the obvious question: If CASA are merely public servants worthy of AVM Skidmores spirited defence, then where did the Ukase regarding fitment of ADS=B come from? Obviously not the aforementioned Mr. Campbell, he is just by his own admission a clerical functionary and you should not have abused him.
This is the game CASA are very good at playing: Fearless Regulators bandleaders of the Safety crusade one minute and merely simple public servants doing the Governments will, the next.
P.S. Not that it would have produced a better result, the safest method of querying such decisions is to "fail to understand" which leaves room for face saving, but I'm sure you know that.
P.P.S. I would assume that any letter coming to CASA from Dick Smith would automatically be handled with Asbestos gloves. The only way out of this mess is via politics in my opinion. Aviation is just too hard for politicians unless they have their noses shoved in it.
Thread Starter
Look left. What's all this sic stuff. To embarrass me? Don't worry it won't work!
There are now thousands in the industry who are rightly angry -that's who I will use. Fortunately we are still a free country and a form of democracy.
There are now thousands in the industry who are rightly angry -that's who I will use. Fortunately we are still a free country and a form of democracy.
I am not sure why you thought that I was trying to embarrass you as the quotes were verbatim
The anger of the constituents does not guarantee an army of more than one. Remember the Caravan to Canberra? They also considered that they were being supported by thousands of righteously angry aviators. As you said, it is still a free and democratic country so all the best with your crusade.
The anger of the constituents does not guarantee an army of more than one. Remember the Caravan to Canberra? They also considered that they were being supported by thousands of righteously angry aviators. As you said, it is still a free and democratic country so all the best with your crusade.
Last edited by Lookleft; 5th May 2015 at 01:10. Reason: Now everything is fully sic.
The Latin adverb sic ("thus"; in full: sic erat scriptum, "thus was it written")[1] inserted immediately after a quoted word or passage, indicates that the quoted matter has been transcribed exactly as found in the source text, complete with any erroneous or archaic spelling, surprising assertion, faulty reasoning, or other matter that might otherwise be taken as an error of transcription.
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Lookleft pops up again
Thanks Lookie-left!!
I was not going to raise this again, with the last thread I commenced being shut down - [Lockhart River 10 years on].
Probably trod on a couple of self-interested toes!!
The cairns to canberra caravan to canberra [can'tberra], was always, as indicated on the original closed and then removed threads, a mission that had some particular ideals.
These were expressed in a series of articles.
The caravan sought to raise issues with individuals, and not expose those [or other] people to further damage or potential damage, as happened on pprune where the greatest threat to free speech that I have seen in a while occurred during that 2-week journey.
The caravaner's had the audacity to put their "heads-up above the parapet' and there was horrific incoming fire from the regulator, supported by those on pprune, who could only be called "casa-compliant".
The question is - whose rice-bowl were they protecting and why??.
What do they have to hide??
The mission met it's objectives and in fact has exposed more issues that should have been public much earlier.
The Senators have further information.
These issues are being carefully evaluated and that such as the Lockhart River travesty, being subject to further new and un-exposed information.
I was not going to raise this again, with the last thread I commenced being shut down - [Lockhart River 10 years on].
Probably trod on a couple of self-interested toes!!
The cairns to canberra caravan to canberra [can'tberra], was always, as indicated on the original closed and then removed threads, a mission that had some particular ideals.
These were expressed in a series of articles.
The caravan sought to raise issues with individuals, and not expose those [or other] people to further damage or potential damage, as happened on pprune where the greatest threat to free speech that I have seen in a while occurred during that 2-week journey.
The caravaner's had the audacity to put their "heads-up above the parapet' and there was horrific incoming fire from the regulator, supported by those on pprune, who could only be called "casa-compliant".
The question is - whose rice-bowl were they protecting and why??.
What do they have to hide??
The mission met it's objectives and in fact has exposed more issues that should have been public much earlier.
The Senators have further information.
These issues are being carefully evaluated and that such as the Lockhart River travesty, being subject to further new and un-exposed information.
Thread Starter
The industry may be interested in the other letter of 31 August 2010 from John McCormick which Mr Skidmore refers to in my first post. Here is an extract from that letter from Mr McCormick…
John McCormick’s letter then goes on to say,
My letter to Peter Cromarty that John McCormick is referring to was about an issue I had been discussing with Peter Cromarty over a number of years. It was a very important issue where I had considered that he had not treated various issues in a fair way. I also wanted a number of serious questions answered.
After receiving John McCormick’s letter, I phoned Peter Cromarty and apologised to him; he accepted my apology. However, did this elicit any responses to my complaints? Of course not! I am sure Peter Cromarty knew he would be protected by “the system” and that even though I had rung and apologised there was simply no way he was going to address any issues that he didn’t want to address. He knew the system would protect him – and it did.
I believe the morale in CASA must be incredibly low. When you work for an organisation which basically follows corrupt practices and lacks ethics, this is what happens. I just wonder how many years it will be before this is “cleaned out”. The Australian aviation industry doesn’t deserve this.
By the way, it is interesting to note the almost identical wording of John McCormick’s letter, written some five years ago, to Mark Skidmore’s letter written only a few weeks ago as reproduced in my first post, viz…
Is this a coincidence? Or is it possible that the position of Director of Aviation Safety could actually be made redundant seeing that correspondence from the Director appears to be automatically computer generated?
Dear Mr Smith
I refer to your letter of 19 August 2010 addressed to Peter Cromarty. I have advised Peter to not reply to your letter, but do so here myself instead.
The language and tone of your letter is absolutely unacceptable. Peter Cromarty is a highly qualified, highly experienced and highly principled member of my senior executive team. Neither he, nor any other CASA manager or staff member, should be written to in this manner.
I refer to your letter of 19 August 2010 addressed to Peter Cromarty. I have advised Peter to not reply to your letter, but do so here myself instead.
The language and tone of your letter is absolutely unacceptable. Peter Cromarty is a highly qualified, highly experienced and highly principled member of my senior executive team. Neither he, nor any other CASA manager or staff member, should be written to in this manner.
I believe you owe Peter an apology, and I trust one will be forthcoming.
After receiving John McCormick’s letter, I phoned Peter Cromarty and apologised to him; he accepted my apology. However, did this elicit any responses to my complaints? Of course not! I am sure Peter Cromarty knew he would be protected by “the system” and that even though I had rung and apologised there was simply no way he was going to address any issues that he didn’t want to address. He knew the system would protect him – and it did.
I believe the morale in CASA must be incredibly low. When you work for an organisation which basically follows corrupt practices and lacks ethics, this is what happens. I just wonder how many years it will be before this is “cleaned out”. The Australian aviation industry doesn’t deserve this.
By the way, it is interesting to note the almost identical wording of John McCormick’s letter, written some five years ago, to Mark Skidmore’s letter written only a few weeks ago as reproduced in my first post, viz…
Dear Mr Smith
I refer to your letter of 30 March 2015 to Gerard Campbell. I have advised Gerard to not reply to your letter, but that I would do so here.
I found the language and tone of your letter unacceptable. Gerard Campbell is a highly qualified, highly experienced and highly principled member of my senior executive team. Neither he, nor any other CASA manager or staff member, should be written to in this manner...
Mark Skidmore AM
I refer to your letter of 30 March 2015 to Gerard Campbell. I have advised Gerard to not reply to your letter, but that I would do so here.
I found the language and tone of your letter unacceptable. Gerard Campbell is a highly qualified, highly experienced and highly principled member of my senior executive team. Neither he, nor any other CASA manager or staff member, should be written to in this manner...
Mark Skidmore AM
That is a clever find Dick and quite embarrassing for them.
Does the Director have a Personal Assistant? (I assume so) it would seem highly probable that a PA or similar wrote this. If that is the case, you could expect to receive more such replies. He probably said to his PA, "draft something up to get this guy off our back" and didn't check what they wrote you last time.
Does the Director have a Personal Assistant? (I assume so) it would seem highly probable that a PA or similar wrote this. If that is the case, you could expect to receive more such replies. He probably said to his PA, "draft something up to get this guy off our back" and didn't check what they wrote you last time.
Actually your reprinted letter from McCormick goes to the heart of your original question Dick: Is Mr Skidmore similar to Mr McCormick?
The wording of the replies you received are almost identical so on first glance the answer would be yes. For those prepared to take a closer look Mr Skidmore then goes on to write that you should approach him directly if you have a complaint about his staff whereas McCormick replies (according to what you have posted)
A significant difference in style and response. McCormick does not want to listen but Skidmore does. So the answer to your original question, which has been lost in the discussion about ADS-B, is no he is not similar to McCormick.
Can you keep us posted on how your discussions on ADS-B, face to face with Mr Skidmore, go please.
The wording of the replies you received are almost identical so on first glance the answer would be yes. For those prepared to take a closer look Mr Skidmore then goes on to write that you should approach him directly if you have a complaint about his staff whereas McCormick replies (according to what you have posted)
I believe you owe Peter an apology, and I trust one will be forthcoming.
Can you keep us posted on how your discussions on ADS-B, face to face with Mr Skidmore, go please.
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What's offensive is that skids in your underpants has even had this sent to dick. Let's face it who has not been offended by someone from Casa. If he so offended and has had it passed onto skidy my suggestion is we all send a letter to a Casa official and all wait for a return letter from skidy.
I have seen a letter from him on another matter taking responsibility for something which at this time I cannot release. But if the ****e hits the fan it will be.
I thinly skidy is in for a busy time.
It's also time to stop this dictatorship and get back to relatety.
I have seen a letter from him on another matter taking responsibility for something which at this time I cannot release. But if the ****e hits the fan it will be.
I thinly skidy is in for a busy time.
It's also time to stop this dictatorship and get back to relatety.
Bit early in the day to be smashing back the cans, isn't it yr right?
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I rest my case...
The old saying of keeping one's friends close but enemies closer could work in our favour. Childish comments aimed at the director are not the way to go IMHO.
