Ukraine War Thread Part 2
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If China does not do something about aiding Russia, America will.
An article in Newsweek today.
Story by David Brennan
The tanks provided to Ukraine have reportedly struggled to deal with Russian drones.© Ian Hitchcock/Getty Images
The U.S. is withdrawing its Abrams main tanks from Ukrainian battlefields after the platforms proved unable to deal with the threat of Russian drones, according to two unnamed U.S. military officials who spoke with the Associated Press.
Five of the 31 American Abrams sent to Ukraine since January 2023 have already been lost to Russian action, the AP said. Their delivery came after months of intense lobbying on Kyiv's part, but the armored platforms—along with others supplied by NATO allies—failed to make the decisive battlefield impact that Ukraine had hoped for.
The Abrams—the unit cost of which is around $10 million each—have fallen victim to the mass use of drones over Ukrainian battlefields, with both sides employing surveillance and strike platforms in the attritional fighting that has come to characterize Russia's invasion.
Their constant presence in the air has made it difficult to amass and move high-value weapons systems like the Abrams close to the front.
"There isn't open ground that you can just drive across without fear of detection," a senior defense official told reporters Thursday, as quoted by the AP.
Joint Chiefs of Staff Vice Chairman Admiral Christopher Grady and a third, unnamed source confirmed to the AP that the surviving tanks had been withdrawn from the front, with the Americans and Ukrainians now planning to review tactics for their use.
"When you think about the way the fight has evolved, massed armor in an environment where unmanned aerial systems are ubiquitous can be at risk," Grady said.
"Now, there is a way to do it," he added. "We'll work with our Ukrainian partners, and other partners on the ground, to help them think through how they might use that, in that kind of changed environment now, where everything is seen immediately."
Newsweek reached out to the Pentagon and the Ukrainian Defense Ministry by email to request comment.
Russian propaganda has been giving prominence to videos and images of defeated Western tanks.
"There is nothing unusual in this tank in the way it is praised by the West and Ukraine," one soldier with the callsign Izai told the state-run Tass news agency. "It left a poor impression and I expected something more."
Moscow has repeatedly vowed to destroy the advanced Western weapons systems sent to Ukraine, claiming that aid from the U.S. and its allies will only prolong—not help win—Kyiv's existential defense war.
Last September, for example, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters at a press briefing, "There is no panacea, no single weapon that can change the balance of power on the battlefield."
As to Western weapons, he said: "They too will burn."
A few points.
1. No weapons system is magic.
2. Ukraine does not have air superiority, and neither do the Russians.
3. Abrams was built under the air land battle assumptions of the 1980's and upgraded based on Force XXI concepts a couple of decades later.
4. If you can't fight a combined arms battle, you will often come up short.
5. Seems smart to come up with some new TTPs, as is mentioned in the article, rather than simply providing Russian drone pilots with some target practice.
But I want to ask this, from the opening line of the article; wait, the US is withdrawing the tanks? I thought they had been given to Ukraine? What is going on here? More Strings Attached? Or has Ukraine chosen to pull them back unitl better tactics/schemes are developed?
America's Abrams Tanks Are Failing the Ukraine Test
Story by David Brennan
The tanks provided to Ukraine have reportedly struggled to deal with Russian drones.© Ian Hitchcock/Getty Images
The U.S. is withdrawing its Abrams main tanks from Ukrainian battlefields after the platforms proved unable to deal with the threat of Russian drones, according to two unnamed U.S. military officials who spoke with the Associated Press.
Five of the 31 American Abrams sent to Ukraine since January 2023 have already been lost to Russian action, the AP said. Their delivery came after months of intense lobbying on Kyiv's part, but the armored platforms—along with others supplied by NATO allies—failed to make the decisive battlefield impact that Ukraine had hoped for.
The Abrams—the unit cost of which is around $10 million each—have fallen victim to the mass use of drones over Ukrainian battlefields, with both sides employing surveillance and strike platforms in the attritional fighting that has come to characterize Russia's invasion.
Their constant presence in the air has made it difficult to amass and move high-value weapons systems like the Abrams close to the front.
"There isn't open ground that you can just drive across without fear of detection," a senior defense official told reporters Thursday, as quoted by the AP.
Joint Chiefs of Staff Vice Chairman Admiral Christopher Grady and a third, unnamed source confirmed to the AP that the surviving tanks had been withdrawn from the front, with the Americans and Ukrainians now planning to review tactics for their use.
"When you think about the way the fight has evolved, massed armor in an environment where unmanned aerial systems are ubiquitous can be at risk," Grady said.
"Now, there is a way to do it," he added. "We'll work with our Ukrainian partners, and other partners on the ground, to help them think through how they might use that, in that kind of changed environment now, where everything is seen immediately."
Newsweek reached out to the Pentagon and the Ukrainian Defense Ministry by email to request comment.
Russian propaganda has been giving prominence to videos and images of defeated Western tanks.
"There is nothing unusual in this tank in the way it is praised by the West and Ukraine," one soldier with the callsign Izai told the state-run Tass news agency. "It left a poor impression and I expected something more."
Moscow has repeatedly vowed to destroy the advanced Western weapons systems sent to Ukraine, claiming that aid from the U.S. and its allies will only prolong—not help win—Kyiv's existential defense war.
Last September, for example, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters at a press briefing, "There is no panacea, no single weapon that can change the balance of power on the battlefield."
As to Western weapons, he said: "They too will burn."
1. No weapons system is magic.
2. Ukraine does not have air superiority, and neither do the Russians.
3. Abrams was built under the air land battle assumptions of the 1980's and upgraded based on Force XXI concepts a couple of decades later.
4. If you can't fight a combined arms battle, you will often come up short.
5. Seems smart to come up with some new TTPs, as is mentioned in the article, rather than simply providing Russian drone pilots with some target practice.
But I want to ask this, from the opening line of the article; wait, the US is withdrawing the tanks? I thought they had been given to Ukraine? What is going on here? More Strings Attached? Or has Ukraine chosen to pull them back unitl better tactics/schemes are developed?
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If this was a war between Russia and America head-on, I doubt any of these 'snippets' would be released into the public domain. OPSEC - every piece of information is useful to the enemy. Careless talk costs lives.
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An article in Newsweek today.
Story by David Brennan
A few points.
1. No weapons system is magic.
2. Ukraine does not have air superiority, and neither do the Russians.
3. Abrams was built under the air land battle assumptions of the 1980's and upgraded based on Force XXI concepts a couple of decades later.
4. If you can't fight a combined arms battle, you will often come up short.
5. Seems smart to come up with some new TTPs, as is mentioned in the article, rather than simply providing Russian drone pilots with some target practice.
But I want to ask this, from the opening line of the article; wait, the US is withdrawing the tanks? I thought they had been given to Ukraine? What is going on here? More Strings Attached? Or has Ukraine chosen to pull them back unitl better tactics/schemes are developed?
America's Abrams Tanks Are Failing the Ukraine Test
Story by David Brennan
A few points.
1. No weapons system is magic.
2. Ukraine does not have air superiority, and neither do the Russians.
3. Abrams was built under the air land battle assumptions of the 1980's and upgraded based on Force XXI concepts a couple of decades later.
4. If you can't fight a combined arms battle, you will often come up short.
5. Seems smart to come up with some new TTPs, as is mentioned in the article, rather than simply providing Russian drone pilots with some target practice.
But I want to ask this, from the opening line of the article; wait, the US is withdrawing the tanks? I thought they had been given to Ukraine? What is going on here? More Strings Attached? Or has Ukraine chosen to pull them back unitl better tactics/schemes are developed?
Or maybe, just maybe, having seen the success of the Russian Tortoises, they have been withdrawn to convert them to TMNT’s…… that for you not so young un’s is Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles…… Cowabunga dudes..
..
Last edited by NutLoose; 26th Apr 2024 at 21:21.
If China does not do something about aiding Russia, America will.
https://twitter.com/Feher_Junior/sta...71210427691050
https://twitter.com/Feher_Junior/sta...71210427691050
Appart from sanctions, which would hurt US almost as much as Chinese, what else could be on the table?
How will the MBT evolve? Or is it the end of an era? Even having air superiority how to deal with literally thousands of drones in the air at the same time. The battlefield becomes transparent.
More issues with Western weapons. GPS guidance is not a magic bullet.
https://www.twz.com/land/have-ground...ide-by-ukraine
More issues with Western weapons. GPS guidance is not a magic bullet.
https://www.twz.com/land/have-ground...ide-by-ukraine
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
PART 1: Wild revelations from Vladimir Osechkin's sources on Timur Ivanov's role in Yevgeny Prigozhin's rebellion & demise. Arrest of Ivanov is Putin's retribution. Shoigu's fall is likely coming.
PART 2: Russia's Deputy Defence Minister Timur Ivanov was in charge of financing construction projects for the MoD. Osechkin learned that Ivanov & Shoigu's corruption may have influenced the timing of the invasion of Ukraine. But first, how the embezzlement scheme worked -
PART 2: Russia's Deputy Defence Minister Timur Ivanov was in charge of financing construction projects for the MoD. Osechkin learned that Ivanov & Shoigu's corruption may have influenced the timing of the invasion of Ukraine. But first, how the embezzlement scheme worked -
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This seems to be a good strategy for now.
Neither side is able to consistently defend against long range attacks, so we should go all-in to help Ukraine dismantle Russia's infrastructure. Millions of drones and cruise missiles, while exacting a terrible toll on the attacking Russian troops. If Kyiv turns into rubble, so should Moscow.
Too much information
Meet Bastard, an interview with a Ukrainian Challenger Crew
https://youtu.be/kMPNZZ95eoI?feature=shared
https://youtu.be/kMPNZZ95eoI?feature=shared
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How will the MBT evolve? Or is it the end of an era? Even having air superiority how to deal with literally thousands of drones in the air at the same time. The battlefield becomes transparent.
More issues with Western weapons. GPS guidance is not a magic bullet.
https://www.twz.com/land/have-ground...ide-by-ukraine
More issues with Western weapons. GPS guidance is not a magic bullet.
https://www.twz.com/land/have-ground...ide-by-ukraine
AWACS, Fighter Support, Counter measures, infantry, interdiction, drone tech. The MBT today is no better or worse off than in WW2. In WW2 without support they would be picked off just as they are today.
Ukraine doesn't have the assets available.
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It’s probably one reason why they are concentrating on Russian radar and ground to air defences, prepping for the F16 arrival.
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Four Ukrainian thermal plants were badly damaged in attacks.
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These four pages tell of the battles taking place and also explain the large amount of Russian losses in both trucks, men and artillery I posted above. They are a very good read as to why and what is going on.
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Showing what the lack of air defence missiles results in.
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The importance of Chasiv yar to all of Ukraine’s battle front.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Reference post #10101 - Ukraine War Thread Part 2
https://www.politico.eu/article/brit...-security-cps/
Brits charged with helping Russia after suspected arson attack on Ukraine-linked firm
https://www.politico.eu/article/brit...-security-cps/
Brits charged with helping Russia after suspected arson attack on Ukraine-linked firm
LONDON — Two British men have been charged with helping Russian intelligence after a suspected arson attack on a business linked to Ukraine.
Prosecutors announced Friday that Dylan Earl, aged 20, and Jake Reeves, 22, had been charged with national security offenses after a blaze at a warehouse in east London in March.
A statement from the U.K.’s Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) said Earl, who was arrested earlier this month, had been charged with “assisting a foreign intelligence service,” as well as aggravated arson and planning conduct which could endanger life or create “a serious risk to the health and safety of the public in the United Kingdom.”
The CPS named the foreign state as Russia.
Reeves meanwhile faces charges of agreeing “to accept a material benefit from a foreign intelligence service,” as well as arson.
Three other defendants — Nii Mensah, Dmitrijus Paulauska and Paul English — all face arson but not espionage charges, while Paulauska is accused of having “information about terrorist acts.”
Westminster Magistrates’ Court lifted reporting restrictions on the men’s identities Friday. They will next appear at the Old Bailey on a date to be confirmed.
Dominic Murphy, head of the Metropolitan Police’s counter-terror command said in a separate statement that the move to charge the men was “extremely serious” and marked the first time anyone has been arrested and charged under the U.K.’s National Security Act, which kicked in last year and specifically took aim at foreign snooping.
British Foreign Secretary David Cameron said Friday: “While we must let the judicial process run its course, I am deeply concerned by allegations of British nationals carrying out criminal activity on U.K. soil to benefit the Russian state.
“We will use the full weight of the criminal justice system to hold anyone found guilty of crimes linked to foreign interference to account.”
Prosecutors announced Friday that Dylan Earl, aged 20, and Jake Reeves, 22, had been charged with national security offenses after a blaze at a warehouse in east London in March.
A statement from the U.K.’s Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) said Earl, who was arrested earlier this month, had been charged with “assisting a foreign intelligence service,” as well as aggravated arson and planning conduct which could endanger life or create “a serious risk to the health and safety of the public in the United Kingdom.”
The CPS named the foreign state as Russia.
Reeves meanwhile faces charges of agreeing “to accept a material benefit from a foreign intelligence service,” as well as arson.
Three other defendants — Nii Mensah, Dmitrijus Paulauska and Paul English — all face arson but not espionage charges, while Paulauska is accused of having “information about terrorist acts.”
Westminster Magistrates’ Court lifted reporting restrictions on the men’s identities Friday. They will next appear at the Old Bailey on a date to be confirmed.
Dominic Murphy, head of the Metropolitan Police’s counter-terror command said in a separate statement that the move to charge the men was “extremely serious” and marked the first time anyone has been arrested and charged under the U.K.’s National Security Act, which kicked in last year and specifically took aim at foreign snooping.
British Foreign Secretary David Cameron said Friday: “While we must let the judicial process run its course, I am deeply concerned by allegations of British nationals carrying out criminal activity on U.K. soil to benefit the Russian state.
“We will use the full weight of the criminal justice system to hold anyone found guilty of crimes linked to foreign interference to account.”
An article in Newsweek today.
Story by David Brennan
A few points.
1. No weapons system is magic.
2. Ukraine does not have air superiority, and neither do the Russians.
3. Abrams was built under the air land battle assumptions of the 1980's and upgraded based on Force XXI concepts a couple of decades later.
4. If you can't fight a combined arms battle, you will often come up short.
5. Seems smart to come up with some new TTPs, as is mentioned in the article, rather than simply providing Russian drone pilots with some target practice.
But I want to ask this, from the opening line of the article; wait, the US is withdrawing the tanks? I thought they had been given to Ukraine? What is going on here? More Strings Attached? Or has Ukraine chosen to pull them back unitl better tactics/schemes are developed?
America's Abrams Tanks Are Failing the Ukraine Test
Story by David Brennan
A few points.
1. No weapons system is magic.
2. Ukraine does not have air superiority, and neither do the Russians.
3. Abrams was built under the air land battle assumptions of the 1980's and upgraded based on Force XXI concepts a couple of decades later.
4. If you can't fight a combined arms battle, you will often come up short.
5. Seems smart to come up with some new TTPs, as is mentioned in the article, rather than simply providing Russian drone pilots with some target practice.
But I want to ask this, from the opening line of the article; wait, the US is withdrawing the tanks? I thought they had been given to Ukraine? What is going on here? More Strings Attached? Or has Ukraine chosen to pull them back unitl better tactics/schemes are developed?
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Details of the Ukrainian pilot training in France for the F16.
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