National Defence Medal is a medal for doing nothing
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melchett01 ... Without wishing to trivialise the thread, she had a chest that was able to carry 3-4 rows of 'medal' ribbons.
And, no, I didn't
And, no, I didn't
Al,
I just don't know, you may well be right. As my old colonel used to remind me, the Army equips its men, the RAF mans its equipment. I just think that the Army is a lot better at looking after its people than we are, and the issue of honours and awards is but one manifestation of that.
Alternatively, when you look at the various lists, the RAF awards often seem to be dominated by the upper levels in both the officer and SNCO cadres unlike the Army where you see a decent sprinkling of awards and MBEs right the way across the ranks. Maybe the RAF takes the view that until you have some time in and reached a senior level you haven't achieved sufficiently to be recognised. Maybe there's someone keeping score in Manning and once you hit a cumulative number of points you get your gong? "We couldn't possibly give Bloggs an award, he's an absolute muppet - last year must have been a fluke!"
Who knows, as with many areas of RAF life, there is little transparency in the logic or thinking making it very difficult to assess.
I just don't know, you may well be right. As my old colonel used to remind me, the Army equips its men, the RAF mans its equipment. I just think that the Army is a lot better at looking after its people than we are, and the issue of honours and awards is but one manifestation of that.
Alternatively, when you look at the various lists, the RAF awards often seem to be dominated by the upper levels in both the officer and SNCO cadres unlike the Army where you see a decent sprinkling of awards and MBEs right the way across the ranks. Maybe the RAF takes the view that until you have some time in and reached a senior level you haven't achieved sufficiently to be recognised. Maybe there's someone keeping score in Manning and once you hit a cumulative number of points you get your gong? "We couldn't possibly give Bloggs an award, he's an absolute muppet - last year must have been a fluke!"
Who knows, as with many areas of RAF life, there is little transparency in the logic or thinking making it very difficult to assess.
Last edited by Melchett01; 15th Nov 2014 at 19:23.
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I think we all know that Honours and Awards is a complex, convoluted and ultimately potentially unfair system. From the quality of the initial write-up, through the attitudes/enthusiasm of the command chain, to quotas. Some you win and some you lose, and I cannot envisage any way around that.
MPN11
(MBE failed and still bling-free)
MPN11
(MBE failed and still bling-free)
MPN11,
I agree entirely and I'm not saying the other Services are perfect, far from it. But from my perspective on how the RAF does it, you hit the nail squarely on the head with
.
Melchett
(25m breaststroke)
I agree entirely and I'm not saying the other Services are perfect, far from it. But from my perspective on how the RAF does it, you hit the nail squarely on the head with
the attitudes/enthusiasm of the command chain
Melchett
(25m breaststroke)
It should be a single medal awarded at 5 years followed by a bar for every subsequent 5 years with a rosette worn when the ribbon alone is showing. That should show a maximum of 8 bars, do-able with the standard ribbon length, the rosettes change to gold every 4th one. This should account for the individuals out there that manage to put up with the Armed Forces from the age of 18 to 60. It should replace the QVRSM but not the LS&GC as this is still a matter of enormous pride to some and equally so to some that don't have it. You note that I suggest that reservists as well as full time qualify for the same medal, this is not a slip, remember, the true worth of any medal is only known by the wearer.
Interesting concept this. From my own experience, I have a couple of medals from GW1 that are far more decorative than the others I obtained through my time in the RAF? Funny thing is, the freedom of Kuwait medal, awarded by the Kuwaiti's and the other one, from the Saudi's, are not permitted to be worn on your uniform (they do look good on my pyjama's though). I understand that it's hardly a problem these days, as most GW1 vets are ex, but, Imagine that Afghanistan awarded a medal for service in that theatre, and the lads were told they couldn't wear it, while they and others who had never been near a combat zone, could wear the proposed National Service Medal. I rather suspect that my NSM was the bloody uniform I wore for 30 years, and was proud to do so. That's what made me feel part of the service, and also that I had something in common with my fellow servicemen, whatever their trade or experience. When politicians get involved like "good old Bob has", there's always a reason, and self interest usually covers it.
Smudge
Smudge
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It should be a single medal awarded at 5 years followed by a bar for every subsequent 5 years with a rosette worn when the ribbon alone is showing.
Worn on the left cuff.
NutLoose: The one I thought should have been for all was the Silver Jubilee one, not the let's hold a raffle for it...
I believe that on one FJ sqn, they were allocated two Silver Jubilee medals. The OC nabbed one, the other was raffled in the aircrew crewroom...
(Several members here missed out - but they know who won it!!)
I believe that on one FJ sqn, they were allocated two Silver Jubilee medals. The OC nabbed one, the other was raffled in the aircrew crewroom...
(Several members here missed out - but they know who won it!!)
smujsmith wrote:
At the last service dinner I attended, I was pleased to note a few people wearing both miniatures on their mess kit.....
Some apostrophic abuse there, smuj.....
What are 'pyjamas', by the way?
Funny thing is, the freedom of Kuwait medal, awarded by the Kuwaiti's and the other one, from the Saudi's, are not permitted to be worn on your uniform (they do look good on my pyjama's though).
Some apostrophic abuse there, smuj.....
What are 'pyjamas', by the way?
Pyjamas - what you hang your miniatures on when not in Mess kit. That and the item of clothing worn to breakfast when you have visitors.
I also believe they are the item of clothing Christopher Plummer refused to wear when handed a set by Suzannah York. And quite right too
I also believe they are the item of clothing Christopher Plummer refused to wear when handed a set by Suzannah York. And quite right too
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I believe that on one FJ sqn, they were allocated two Silver Jubilee medals. The OC nabbed one, the other was raffled in the aircrew crewroom...
(Several members here missed out - but they know who won it!!)
(Several members here missed out - but they know who won it!!)
The Kiwis instituted a Defence Service Medal a couple of years back, with clasps for Regular, Reserve and National Service, err, service. The qualifying period is, I believe, only three years. However, when I last ran into an RNZAF chap in Service Dress, his uniform was covered in little badges and trinkets; sadly they've moved away from the British minimalist approach.
Medallic Recognition for Service in the Armed Forces
I write as one who took pride in serving in the RAF for 19 years yet feels unrecognised at Remembrance Day church services and parades because I have no medal to indicate that I, too, was the Service, which was in the 1960s and 70s. There was huge disappointment in 1977 when we learnt that a Queen's Silver Jubilee Medal was going to be awarded to the armed services - but then, as has been mentioned elsewhere, in the event very few were distributed - quite unlike when the subsequent Gold and Diamond Jubilee medals were struck.
There is also no possibility either (at present, although this may change) that I could qualify for a Long Service medal, which I would be absolutely delighted to receive if regular officers were to qualify and the qualification were to be made retrospective.
The NDM, as I understand is proposed, would if approved be made available to those who have served for a defined period in the armed services, just as in Australia and New Zealand, without any consideration of 'risk and rigour' such as form a prerequisite for any campaign medals. This approach should address the observations made by Col Bob Stewart MP.
It may be difficult for any reader who has even one medal to understand the continuing disappointment felt by those of us whose service has not received medallic recognition. I hope that something positive will come out of the Second Reading of the NDM Bill on the 5th of December for the sake of many thousands who would appreciate such a tangible and visual gesture of thanks from HMG for service rendered.
There is also no possibility either (at present, although this may change) that I could qualify for a Long Service medal, which I would be absolutely delighted to receive if regular officers were to qualify and the qualification were to be made retrospective.
The NDM, as I understand is proposed, would if approved be made available to those who have served for a defined period in the armed services, just as in Australia and New Zealand, without any consideration of 'risk and rigour' such as form a prerequisite for any campaign medals. This approach should address the observations made by Col Bob Stewart MP.
It may be difficult for any reader who has even one medal to understand the continuing disappointment felt by those of us whose service has not received medallic recognition. I hope that something positive will come out of the Second Reading of the NDM Bill on the 5th of December for the sake of many thousands who would appreciate such a tangible and visual gesture of thanks from HMG for service rendered.
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I console myself by wearing my cute little "Veterans Badge" 
I also console myself by realising that my 30 years non-medallic service is a damned sight better than being exposed to the "hazard and rigour" that so many generations have experienced, and is reflected in their medals.
I also have no need for a 'medal for doing nothing special, except for being paid', nor an officer's LS&GC that shows I have never been court martialled or cashiered.
I also console myself by realising that my 30 years non-medallic service is a damned sight better than being exposed to the "hazard and rigour" that so many generations have experienced, and is reflected in their medals.
I also have no need for a 'medal for doing nothing special, except for being paid', nor an officer's LS&GC that shows I have never been court martialled or cashiered.
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Posted by Nutloose
Odd you should describe your GSM as lowly (I have one from Aden and an unclaimed bar for NI) because I too am surprised to see it take precedence over other campaign medals worn by guys for service in Iraq/Afghanistan. In my case it was for "being there" 1966/1967. Certainly it was merited for others who saw some nastiness, army and RAF Regt, whereas I only left the safety of Kīsar for luxurious dets such as Sharjah and Majunga.
Posted by TTN
.
Didnīt they also wear two hatbadges on their berets, one front and one at the back for that same action?
Oddly enough when I got stuck on a Jag Sqn and we had a Sqn photo taken in No1's, bar the old folks medal (LSGC) I was about the only one to have one and that being my lowly GSM. Every man and his dog had them at Odiham, at Bruggen a medal was a rarity.
Posted by TTN
The Glosters were awarded a US Presidential Unit Citation for their action at the Imjin River in Korea. It was worn as a blue rectangular patch at the top of the sleeve, and the practice continued until The Glosters were absorbed into The Rifles a few years ago
Didnīt they also wear two hatbadges on their berets, one front and one at the back for that same action?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
My risk and rigour was marked by a very pleasant sojourn in a tropical Sun, bathing in a crystal clear lagoon or sipping Tiger beer by the pool.
The risk was greater from some obscure tropical disease in an hotel in Georgetown than the putative enemy. In contrast anyone deployed to AFG deserved a DCM or equivalent.
The risk was greater from some obscure tropical disease in an hotel in Georgetown than the putative enemy. In contrast anyone deployed to AFG deserved a DCM or equivalent.
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Pontius my Bosnia medal was similarly earned in a 5 star hotel in Italy on rates NATO medal though not sure it was to be worn on uniform.
Nijmegen medal as a spacy was earned
Nijmegen medal as a spacy was earned
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A gap in our medal system.
Hi Guys,
I'm a civilian, but I do hope you won't mind if I comment.
One kind of medal I feel we lack in the UK is something like the US's Purple Heart.
For example, as I understand it, in the recent Afghanistan action it was entirely possible for a soldier of, say, 19 to be sent into theatre on his/her first deployment on day one. On day twelve he/she has both legs blown off. By day 19, he/she might be back in Selly Oak and not even entitled to a campaign medal because he/she wasn't in the war zone for the requisite 28 days! Two or three months later he/she is out of the Army and looking forward to a life of disablement and nothing to show for his/her service.
Surely this is unfair. If someone has to go through the rest of his/her life with such a souvenir of the armed services and of war service, surely some recognition of his/her sacrifice is needed.
Regards,
BP.
I'm a civilian, but I do hope you won't mind if I comment.
One kind of medal I feel we lack in the UK is something like the US's Purple Heart.
For example, as I understand it, in the recent Afghanistan action it was entirely possible for a soldier of, say, 19 to be sent into theatre on his/her first deployment on day one. On day twelve he/she has both legs blown off. By day 19, he/she might be back in Selly Oak and not even entitled to a campaign medal because he/she wasn't in the war zone for the requisite 28 days! Two or three months later he/she is out of the Army and looking forward to a life of disablement and nothing to show for his/her service.
Surely this is unfair. If someone has to go through the rest of his/her life with such a souvenir of the armed services and of war service, surely some recognition of his/her sacrifice is needed.
Regards,
BP.