War with Russia next?
Interesting to note how little opposition there is to within Crimea to the "occupation" by Russian troops. The Russian force is small (6000 according to US sources) and lightly armed, Crimea is the size of Belgium, and the place is awash with light arms - yet there has not been a single incident of resistance by the local population.
At the height of the troubles in NI we had 27000 troops based in a province half the size of Crimea, we had the support of approximately ⅔ of the population, yet still couldn't control the place.
I conclude that the majority of the population welcome the Russian troops.
The press have dug up a few disgruntled Ukrainians to interview - but it is clear that the vast majority of the population there want and support the Russian presence.
At the height of the troubles in NI we had 27000 troops based in a province half the size of Crimea, we had the support of approximately ⅔ of the population, yet still couldn't control the place.
I conclude that the majority of the population welcome the Russian troops.
The press have dug up a few disgruntled Ukrainians to interview - but it is clear that the vast majority of the population there want and support the Russian presence.
At the height of the troubles in NI we had 27000 troops based in a province half the size of Crimea, we had the support of approximately ⅔ of the population, yet still couldn't control the place.
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most people in Crimea want to be part of Russia.
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"That and the fact those who do not wish to be part of Russia are no doubt sitting at home behind closed doors pooing themselves. It makes you wonder if it isn't resolved how the two halves of the population will ever reintegrate. You do not know what the majority of the Country wants, wherever a TV crew turf up, "rent a crowd" will be sure to be in attendance.
Stage enough little "rent a crowd" events and you soon start to paint a picture in the news that the majority want this, throw in a rigged / unlawful / one sided referendum intimidating the pro Ukrainian populace and you are now into Kim Jong-un and his 100% turn out and result territory.
What they need is a mediator who is skilled in the art of devolution, one suggests sending them Salmond and his cronies to help out..
Stage enough little "rent a crowd" events and you soon start to paint a picture in the news that the majority want this, throw in a rigged / unlawful / one sided referendum intimidating the pro Ukrainian populace and you are now into Kim Jong-un and his 100% turn out and result territory.
What they need is a mediator who is skilled in the art of devolution, one suggests sending them Salmond and his cronies to help out..
Bastardeaux - read my original post - the fact that a tiny force of 6000 is able to occupy an area nearly the size of Belgium suggest very strongly that the majority of the population support their presence.
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Nice to see Cameroon in Israel telling their parliament his and I quote "and commitment to Israel's security will always be rock solid". Tell that to Ukraine who thought theirs was too..
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Bloomberg is just reporting that the US has escalated even further, citing the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Martin Dempsey, who "has claimed that in the case of an escalation of unrest in Crimea, the U.S. Army is ready to back up Ukraine and its allies in Europe with military actions."
Bob C
Bob C
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Boy, has Putin seriously got this wrong.
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TS
Maybe you need to find a comparison that is even remotely similar to illustrate your point.
The Brit army trying to control a few hundred dissidents who were not afraid of the consequences of being caught bear no relation to someone deciding to start shooting at an armed force that has a history of wiping out opposition with total brutality.........as opposed to force feeding 'hunger strikers' in prison while allowing them to be the category of prisoner they wish to be, have parades, wear their own clothes and then later just let them off from their crimes.
Not quite the same as a visit from spetznas where a six inch rusty nail is hammered into your forehead to make the point that you were a naughty boy.
On a larger scale I'm sure you understand why no state is going to kick out the Russians either! Ivan walks quietly in Crimea but has a stick so big that no one in their right mind wants him to start using it (all IMHO)
That is not to say that a large amount of citizens from Crimea don't want to be part of Russia, but that the small amount of troops has no bearing here.
Maybe you need to find a comparison that is even remotely similar to illustrate your point.
The Brit army trying to control a few hundred dissidents who were not afraid of the consequences of being caught bear no relation to someone deciding to start shooting at an armed force that has a history of wiping out opposition with total brutality.........as opposed to force feeding 'hunger strikers' in prison while allowing them to be the category of prisoner they wish to be, have parades, wear their own clothes and then later just let them off from their crimes.
Not quite the same as a visit from spetznas where a six inch rusty nail is hammered into your forehead to make the point that you were a naughty boy.
On a larger scale I'm sure you understand why no state is going to kick out the Russians either! Ivan walks quietly in Crimea but has a stick so big that no one in their right mind wants him to start using it (all IMHO)
That is not to say that a large amount of citizens from Crimea don't want to be part of Russia, but that the small amount of troops has no bearing here.
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Bloomberg is just reporting that the US has escalated even further, citing the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Martin Dempsey, who "has claimed that in the case of an escalation of unrest in Crimea, the U.S. Army is ready to back up Ukraine and its allies in Europe with military actions." Bob C
PS: FFS, are our people in Washington really that thick?
PPS: is that REALLY what the general said?
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Originally Posted by Trim Stab
Bastardeaux - read my original post - the fact that a tiny force of 6000 is able to occupy an area nearly the size of Belgium suggest very strongly that the majority of the population support their presence.
Russia closing door on Crimea as troops build up
Note this part of the article
The referendum, announced suddenly by the pro-Russian government of Crimea earlier this month, asks citizens to choose between reuniting Crimea with Russia or restoring Crimea’s 1992 constitution, in which Crimea is effectively recognised as an independent state.
Nice "free and open" election, eh?
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Why did our civilian leadership dump that PR release on the General?
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Actually some reports starting to come in that there are protests in Crimea to release some of the anti Russian protestors that have been detained.
Trim Stab I have colleagues in Odessa (so not the Crimea) who have seen people walking outside with Russian flags. their first instinct, and a wise one, is to keep away from it all. I can imagine the same feeling in the Crimea only more so.
The effect of the Russian presence is to make Russian protestors safe and anyone who disagrees with them publicly a bloody brave person or an idiot depending on how you look at it.
Is there really any guarantee that all the Russian-speakers in the Ukranine are unaware of how useful it would be to them to be part of the EU?
The effect of the Russian presence is to make Russian protestors safe and anyone who disagrees with them publicly a bloody brave person or an idiot depending on how you look at it.
Is there really any guarantee that all the Russian-speakers in the Ukranine are unaware of how useful it would be to them to be part of the EU?
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If Putin had left alone, and Ukraine joined the EU, then in a few years time, his Russian speaking population could have moved to the UK to become an oppressed minority so he that could send in the troops to rescue them at their request... 
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Oh dear, one thought that stupidity on the news was a thing of the past.... will they never learn. I thought Chernobyl had taught the world that leasson.
'Russia could turn USA into radioactive ashes' on MSN Video
'Russia could turn USA into radioactive ashes' on MSN Video
I read that the unelected regime in Ukraine is now forming a 40,000 strong "National Guard", largely recruited from the right-wing thugs and militias that overthrew the President, reporting directly to the so-called "interim government"
Ask yourself why they need a "National Guard" when they have a 144,000 strong standing army? The answer is that the army swore allegiance to the President of Ukraine, so the new, unelected, interim government does not trust them. They are thus forming this "National Guard" out of some very unpalatable right-wing militias - some of whom openly parade under the Swastika.
Lots of parallels with Hitler's decision to form his own private army, directly answerable to himself - the SS.
We really are backing the wrong side in this. We should never have stood by while the democratically elected President was overthrown. It is absurd that we are now threatening to go to war to support a government in Kiev that has never been elected, and which clearly does not have any support from the east of the country.
Ask yourself why they need a "National Guard" when they have a 144,000 strong standing army? The answer is that the army swore allegiance to the President of Ukraine, so the new, unelected, interim government does not trust them. They are thus forming this "National Guard" out of some very unpalatable right-wing militias - some of whom openly parade under the Swastika.
Lots of parallels with Hitler's decision to form his own private army, directly answerable to himself - the SS.
We really are backing the wrong side in this. We should never have stood by while the democratically elected President was overthrown. It is absurd that we are now threatening to go to war to support a government in Kiev that has never been elected, and which clearly does not have any support from the east of the country.
Last edited by Trim Stab; 17th Mar 2014 at 15:22.