Military AircrewA forum for the professionals who fly the non-civilian hardware, and the backroom boys and girls without whom nothing would leave the ground. Army, Navy and Airforces of the World, all equally welcome here.
Having found this old thread and read it from start to finish, I find myself wanting to know what has happened to Hornetboy and his quest to enter the RAAF as a pilot. Can the man himself, or somebody else, enlighten me?
An extremely interesting thread and well done for bringing it back to the surface. Yes, what did happen to the originator?
One thing that has struck me and that is the gulf of difference between the standard of English between modern RAF and RAAF (See Applying for RAF and New Streaming Point threads et al). It speaks volumes for the high standard of Australian education as opposed to the Comprehensive failure in the UK. I speak as a 30 year RAF officer and now a 12 year Australian resident and pilot.
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
You mean that the abysmal txtmsg yoofspeak standards of English haven't been allowed to erode the standards downunder?
Perhaps it's because, unlike in the UK, the trendy-lefties who were responsible for destroying the UK's education system would have bluntly been told to ***k off in no uncertain terms had they dared to suggest such in Oz?
Having read most of the contributions on this thread, I heartily agree with your comment about the comparative standards of English between here and Oz. Some of the grammatical scatology and woeful spelling I see on many UK-produced threads make me cringe. Some contributors, as BEagle indicates, are undoubtedly victims of a system that was supposed to have provided an education; some know better but are too lazy to get it right; and some seem to just revel in being plebeian, or 'cool' as they would undoubtedly see it.
Also, the increasing use of telephone texting may eventually do for us all, Australians included, in that the gibberish used therein will, I fear, become the norm.
Why do we seem determined to destroy what is a beautiful language?!
PS: Any grammatical or spelling errors in the foregoing are rage-induced!!
SOMAT/BEagle - Support is gratefully received! I got a fair old savaging from TimeFlies on the 'Applying for the RAF' thread. He seemed to think that woeful English was not a problem and could be corrected much later in the system. Probably right but what a way to start!
I do think that the root of the problem lies with my generation who went to teacher training college and came out with a lot of very funny ideas about edukashun. It's the following generation that has suffered.
Unfortunately, while my comments here about the originator and subsequent contributors hold good, I can see a definite decline in education standards here, along the lines of the UK. Hopefully the military selection system here won't do what the RAF did and bow to the lowest common denominator.
I am an applicant for the R.A.A.F. for Pilot Selection.
I am in the same position as Hornet Boy was at the beginning of this thread.
I have only just discovered this thread, and like those above me, have only just had the chance to read this from end to end.
I would love to be able to cajole the same contributors to this thread that Hornet Boy did, as I have so many questions...
I am at this point, 25 years of age, and for those among you that are of the British persuasion, the R.A.A.F. has as of the last 18 months reviewed their age for application up to the limit of 43 years of age. This is obviously pending a equitable return of service being able to be negotiated.
If anyone knows any of the members that contributed to this thread in its initial stages, then please please beg them to come back to this thread and lend me some much needed advice.
I have already sat the aptitude testing procedures, passed the medical and psychological testing. Twice. I have to reapply after I have had the chance to log more hours. I am desperate to make this my life, and I know of no other career that would satisfy me.
I was told just over 12 months ago to go away, log more hours, play a team sport, extend my list of contacts inside the R.A.A.F. and reapply 6 months later.
That was 12 months ago.
I have been asking myself the hard questions after being told no twice. I was calling the recruiting office almost every week to try and glean some information on the progress of my application, and all with no joy. Then I reapply, and I am given advice to come back in 6 months time after being told to do this, that and the other. I cannot even begin to advise you on how frustrating this was, and how demoralising.
Yet, here I find myself, needing advice, moral support, and most importantly of all, to see that my decision to chase this dream to the end of the earth is not a vain pursuit.
I know all that I need to know about training, postings, conversion courses, length etc, but as I have read above on this thread, my case is by no means isolated, nor is it the longest that someone has pursued this dream.
I will not give up, but if anyone can in any way give advice that is specifically pertinent to my situation, then I would be grateful, and in their debt to the end and beyond.
Anything that anyone can add would be of the most heartfelt, respected and appreciated benefit to myself.
A few years ago, if you were going to apply to join the Australian Defence Force, you already had to have applied for Australian Citizenship (according to the chaps at Defence Plaza, Sydney). This is for someone applying straight off the street with no military experience. Not sure what the situation is now though.
I don't normally do this, and I don't have time to type a great big response, but you do sound very sincere. Also, I don't have a great deal of confidence in the ability of recruiting to give people the best advice these days. It's a long time since I knew any pilots who worked at recruiting. Manpower do their best, but they can't be expected to know what it's really like out there.
You say that you know all you need to know about courses, training etc, and that you need "advice on information ... pertinent to your situation". You don't say exactly what advice you're after though, or what specifically we could help you with.
If you want to PM me, I can probably give you some contact details and we can have a talk. I'm a few years removed from the recruiting process now, but I still remember what it was like to want to do nothing else in life but fly jets in the RAAF. Having been lucky enough to have had that opportunity, I guess the least I can do is to try and help keen people like you with info wherever I can. Over to you. If you do want to send me a message, please be patient - I don't get on Prune that often these days.
Bzulu, my apologies also for the lack of detail in my post.
Basically, log more hours flying. I am caught between the devil and the deep blue sea with regard to logging more hours - as you and SW would be well aware, as of as far back as I can remember, if you have over 20 hours of flight time against your name, then upon attending flight screening, you are automatically considered an advanced candidate, tested and marked accordingly.
There is much conjecture about the basic/advanced candidate scheme at PSA, but it seems to me that if you have over 20 hours - indeed 20.1 would suffice - then you will be flying against candidates that have more than one full log book to their name. For mine, and this stems from advice from some that I have spoken to at length on this issue, I believe that it is probably better for my own chances to stay under the 20 hours mark. I base this assumption on two main factors...
1. Despite the literature to the contrary, I am fairly sure that there is a different scale of assessment and marking for Aircrew Applicants with over 20 hours. It is based purely on this figure, and there is no leeway with regard to whether or not you have 20.1, or 500 in the book.
2. I am paranoid that I am not going to be able to compete in this aspect with another applicant with far more hours than myself.
Please feel completely free to correct me if I am in any way wrong, but particularly on the second point, I think about it in the sense that someone who has 70 hours is going to be far more comfortable, and therefore far more competitive in a situation of loss of control (developed spin etc) than someone with 25 or 30 hours. I don't mean for this to sound so subjective, but I use the above example as just that - an example.
I would love to hear from anyone on any point relating to the above, and also if anyone out there has any opinions on my age as a factor in my application - 25 at present, with my birthday in January.
SW, again, thankyou for the opportunity to contact you on the PM'S. I will take that opportunity right now.
Again, thankyou one and all for any advice you can give in advance, and if anyone knows indeed what did happen to HornetBoy, lets hear about him, and where he is at momentarily...
I went through the first flight screening course and had 0, zilh, zaninga, zero hours... and passed pilots course successfully. For those on the advanced FS course it didn't matter whether they had 20.1 hours or 3000 as they are not looking at whether you can fly, they are learning at aptitude and learning rate. Trust me, its not a biggy.
Secondly, and more importantly, you have to learn to back yourself. Have some self confidence or you won;t go anywhere fast.
Its interesting to hear the opinion of someone who passed first go with no hours..
I have spoken to quite a few people regarding this particular issue, and all have agreed that getting as many hours as I can can 't hurt.
I am particularly weary of doing that as, - and I'm sure that you would be able to back me up on this - the military way of flying is going to be vastly different to that of the civilian/CASA way of flying, if you get my point.
I am going to go back to a gentleman at the Flying Club at Amberley. I don't know if you know of whom I speak, but he was an AIRCDRE when he was in, and flew fast jets from the Miracle to the Pig. When I initially saw him about learning to fly, and my reasons, he seemed to be keen to get me up in the air, and see what I was made of.
I know that if I am to learn from this gentleman, then I can be fairly certain that I will be receiving training that can't be too far removed from the way that I can expect to be trained/assessesd by the R.A.A.F.
I would also be very interested to know your opinion on my age at present as a determining factor in my bid to be a Pilot.
And don't be worried about me backing myself in this venture. I know that given the chance, I will be the best damn Pilot wherever I end up, simply because I want to be the best, and nothing less will satisfy me. I have a dream to live up to, and an obligation to honour the memory of the father of a very close friend who died in the only collision that the Roulettes have ever experienced. I will not shrink from either.
A bit off the the subject...but kind of close...so forgive me please.
Been many moons since I went through the whole process, but number 1 son is now closely approaching the age of reckoning. He is in yr 11 at a QLD school. Can any new(ish) joiners share what kind of marks they recieved in senior to be competitive for selection please .
Also, is all Pilot training for school leavers through ADFA now, or are puke courses still available? (just wondering if I will have to get use to having a college boy in the family if he gets in.....he will be out of the will if he buys the ring though!!!).
Good luck to all...its a great job...great mates...and you will love every minute of it.
fishy: Hows that desk job in sunny CBR going ol' mate?
Don: yes direct entry pilots are still taken by the bucketload - you can keep him in the will for now not all ADFA grads wear rings you know, me being one of them... you would never catch me wearing something as tacky as that.
FTI: its a hard decision with regards to the hours deabte. Many say to get as many as you can, some say to get 0 because you will learn bad habits. From experience, i can say 0 is bad - i really struggled in the first 20 hours of pilots course up to GFPT as i really didn't have any knowledge of even the basics - ie all these guys had 20 hours under their belt and radio calls and emergencies etc were the norm for them - my first emergency went something like this "and practice (throttle being retarded to idle)" - (me shpeeling cxlists but not flying the aircraft) - mate, you will be glad to know your mum will see you soon - at your funeral.
I recommend 20 hours - if you get too many then yes, you will learn habits in flying techniques that will hinder you on pilots course. Seen plenty of guys go through with 500 hours+ civvy but get scrubbed for using "incorrect techniques" ie, they couldn;t get out of their civilian flying habits.
There is only one way to fly in the military, and if you do it any other way you will fail.
In terms of your age, to put it simply, i don't see it as a factor at all - my best mate on course was 28 - an ex techo who re-roled - and he did very well.
As for dealing with the AIRCDRE in Amberley, i think it will be very beneficial to you. I flew with a WGCDR QFI briefly for 3 flights (family friend) before i got in - i didn;t learn how to fly off him but i certainly did get a grasp for 1) the QFI 'quack' and how it sounds and what they expect you to do 2) the no nonsense approach to military flying.