So close, yet so far: Class 1 medical, Crohns Disease & eyesight
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So close, yet so far: Class 1 medical, Crohns Disease & eyesight
So I went and had an initial Class 1 assessment before commencing my PPL(H) as my intention was always to fly commercially. I was quite concerned I may not pass due to having Crohns Disease, so I booked for a Class 1 before spending thousands of pounds on flight training.
I did a bit of research into my Crohns and Class 1 and found that the refusals generally are for people who are suffering (from their Crohns) or the people that are on the Steroid meds. I'm neither, which as I thought, didn't exclude me. In fact my Crohns was quite insignificant, as I brought along a letter from my specialist outlining my current status which basically said I am in remission.
Where my issue lay was in fact my eyesight. I'd gone in all worried about my Crohns, and didn't have much concern for my eyesight. They performed all the relevant tests and found that I just struggled with reading the 6/6 line (with correcting lenses on).. they also found the prescription I was wearing was inaccurate - it's only three months old! So, I was declined a Class 1 medical on the grounds of my eyesight being unsuitable. But it is sufficient for Class 2.
The next day I went into my normal opticians and relayed all what had happened the previous day and re-sat my eyetest. It was found that my prescription was indeed wrong, and also that I was reading the 6/6 line better with the correct prescription than what I had done with the AME optmometrist. But still not 100% perfect. Some lines I read 4/4 letters correctly, others just 3/4. I was getting A's and H's a bit muddled.and P's and F's.
I came out of specsavers even more disappointed than I was the day before, as I felt so close to obtaining my Class 1 medical.
Is there anything anyone on here can suggest that I do? I've been reading a lot about people having laser eye surgery on some of the flying forums, but understand it is still quite a shady area when it comes to flying?
P.S, if anyone is interested in my prescription, I can post it up tomorrow.
I did a bit of research into my Crohns and Class 1 and found that the refusals generally are for people who are suffering (from their Crohns) or the people that are on the Steroid meds. I'm neither, which as I thought, didn't exclude me. In fact my Crohns was quite insignificant, as I brought along a letter from my specialist outlining my current status which basically said I am in remission.
Where my issue lay was in fact my eyesight. I'd gone in all worried about my Crohns, and didn't have much concern for my eyesight. They performed all the relevant tests and found that I just struggled with reading the 6/6 line (with correcting lenses on).. they also found the prescription I was wearing was inaccurate - it's only three months old! So, I was declined a Class 1 medical on the grounds of my eyesight being unsuitable. But it is sufficient for Class 2.
The next day I went into my normal opticians and relayed all what had happened the previous day and re-sat my eyetest. It was found that my prescription was indeed wrong, and also that I was reading the 6/6 line better with the correct prescription than what I had done with the AME optmometrist. But still not 100% perfect. Some lines I read 4/4 letters correctly, others just 3/4. I was getting A's and H's a bit muddled.and P's and F's.
I came out of specsavers even more disappointed than I was the day before, as I felt so close to obtaining my Class 1 medical.
Is there anything anyone on here can suggest that I do? I've been reading a lot about people having laser eye surgery on some of the flying forums, but understand it is still quite a shady area when it comes to flying?
P.S, if anyone is interested in my prescription, I can post it up tomorrow.
Psychophysiological entity
I'm a retired pilot not a doctor. What I do know about eyes comes from being fanatical about eyesight and having had three operations after a lot of research.
Back to you.
Really, there's not much for a reader on here to go with. i.e., we don't know what is causing the bad eyesight. Do you?
DON'T mess with laser, it could be utterly inappropriate and with the timing certainly counterproductive.
There are various things that cause the human eye to give poor results and the first thing to ascertain is the condition of the retina and associated neurological circuitry. Not always easy when there's a poor optical system in front of it. But first step is to question if there's any reason to believe your retina might be imperfect.
Let's say you can get a reasonable photo of the retina. With all due respect for the folk at SS, have you been to see an eye surgeon? The photos are helpful, but the hospital eye department will also scan your eyes and produce the tomography to simulate a side slice through your macular region. A good one will show the fovea clearly.
Let's say that's all okay.
Now the things that can go wrong at the front. The cornea can cause focussing problems. That is focussing, not clarity. It's that layer, or more correctly the stuff behind it, that they attack with lasers. But, it can also have issues which cause your visual clarity to be affected.
Later, it will be important to get a reasonable assessment of how that layer is performing. For now, an optician will lump it together with the interocular lens and the membrane behind it, as a combined focussing unit. It's all he can do, though his training will cause him to spot some problems. Hopefully.
Now that lens. Clarity, symmetry and let's say, flexibility.
Clarity is obvious.
Symmertry? Astigmatism. "a deviation from spherical curvature". Aviation regs are fairly critical about this one. It might be seen when you hold one lens of your specs in front of your eye and rotate it. Often, you'll see a major change in focus. It should be best with your specs naturally horizontal. With a lot of astigmatism, the image will go from blurred and come sharply into focus at one angle - hopefully, level.
Just a thought.
Cylinder correction is what will show on your script. Or Cyl. You may find this wanders from one check to another If it does, it will probably be you, under tension while struggling to focus. (I did it a lot when I was young. I'd get a 20degree change in cyl., to the great annoyance of my optician. It was only in my dotage I found out I was distorting my eyeball - probably with ocular muscles - to get perfection.
When young, the lens should be nice and flexible. The muscle that alters the focus works counter-intuitively, but tensions the little strands that surround the lens. The ciliary muscles are often confused with these zonular fibers which suspend the lens in position. If it were these that changed the lens' focus by acting as muscles, it would be like pushing a piece of string down the road.
So, the release of tension in the fibres causes the lens to become more spherical. Relaxed = close focus. It seems, "you'll strain your eyes working in that light" is a bit of an old wife's tale.
That behind the lens membrane. At your age hopefully it will be perfectly clear.
My feeling is, explain the problem to you GP. Because you're planning a lifelong career you really need a referral to a specialist and a consultant-level assessment. If it turns out the focussing of your eyes is the only, but say, quite severe problem, you then have to find out where that distortion is coming from. Cornea, or lens, or both? Now the big question. If one or both are career-stoppers, you have to consider what course of action to take. Some people use laser to correct the problem in the lens. A bit like Hubble: just a fix. However with the advent of super new lenses might be implanted years before a cataract, anything is possible, but only a consultant eye surgeon can advise you what steps to take.
However, try hard to get (eventually two pairs) of very good specs that comply with the Class I, since it is possible the strength needed will diminish with age - while technology improves - to the point that in a few years you're back up to 6/6 or 20/20.
Let us know what happens.
Back to you.
Really, there's not much for a reader on here to go with. i.e., we don't know what is causing the bad eyesight. Do you?
DON'T mess with laser, it could be utterly inappropriate and with the timing certainly counterproductive.
There are various things that cause the human eye to give poor results and the first thing to ascertain is the condition of the retina and associated neurological circuitry. Not always easy when there's a poor optical system in front of it. But first step is to question if there's any reason to believe your retina might be imperfect.
Let's say you can get a reasonable photo of the retina. With all due respect for the folk at SS, have you been to see an eye surgeon? The photos are helpful, but the hospital eye department will also scan your eyes and produce the tomography to simulate a side slice through your macular region. A good one will show the fovea clearly.
Let's say that's all okay.
Now the things that can go wrong at the front. The cornea can cause focussing problems. That is focussing, not clarity. It's that layer, or more correctly the stuff behind it, that they attack with lasers. But, it can also have issues which cause your visual clarity to be affected.
Later, it will be important to get a reasonable assessment of how that layer is performing. For now, an optician will lump it together with the interocular lens and the membrane behind it, as a combined focussing unit. It's all he can do, though his training will cause him to spot some problems. Hopefully.
Now that lens. Clarity, symmetry and let's say, flexibility.
Clarity is obvious.
Symmertry? Astigmatism. "a deviation from spherical curvature". Aviation regs are fairly critical about this one. It might be seen when you hold one lens of your specs in front of your eye and rotate it. Often, you'll see a major change in focus. It should be best with your specs naturally horizontal. With a lot of astigmatism, the image will go from blurred and come sharply into focus at one angle - hopefully, level.
they also found the prescription I was wearing was inaccurate - it's only three months old!
Cylinder correction is what will show on your script. Or Cyl. You may find this wanders from one check to another If it does, it will probably be you, under tension while struggling to focus. (I did it a lot when I was young. I'd get a 20degree change in cyl., to the great annoyance of my optician. It was only in my dotage I found out I was distorting my eyeball - probably with ocular muscles - to get perfection.
When young, the lens should be nice and flexible. The muscle that alters the focus works counter-intuitively, but tensions the little strands that surround the lens. The ciliary muscles are often confused with these zonular fibers which suspend the lens in position. If it were these that changed the lens' focus by acting as muscles, it would be like pushing a piece of string down the road.
So, the release of tension in the fibres causes the lens to become more spherical. Relaxed = close focus. It seems, "you'll strain your eyes working in that light" is a bit of an old wife's tale.
That behind the lens membrane. At your age hopefully it will be perfectly clear.
My feeling is, explain the problem to you GP. Because you're planning a lifelong career you really need a referral to a specialist and a consultant-level assessment. If it turns out the focussing of your eyes is the only, but say, quite severe problem, you then have to find out where that distortion is coming from. Cornea, or lens, or both? Now the big question. If one or both are career-stoppers, you have to consider what course of action to take. Some people use laser to correct the problem in the lens. A bit like Hubble: just a fix. However with the advent of super new lenses might be implanted years before a cataract, anything is possible, but only a consultant eye surgeon can advise you what steps to take.
However, try hard to get (eventually two pairs) of very good specs that comply with the Class I, since it is possible the strength needed will diminish with age - while technology improves - to the point that in a few years you're back up to 6/6 or 20/20.
Let us know what happens.
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Many years ago in my forties I noticed that my distant vision was beginning to degrade. I was spending a lot of time in front of the computer and I guess I was straining my eyes without realizing it. I eventually went for an eye test and was given a prescription for bifocals. At my annual medical the doc confirmed that I was only just passing the distant vision requirement. The distant correction was insignificant and so I bought some cheap reading glasses. I then always used the reading glasses when in front of the computer and of course for reading. At my next annual the doc was quite surprised when he found my distant vision had improved considerably. Obviously, straining to read had started to permanently deform my eye lenses and it wasn't until they were able to relax that my distant vision returned. Of course that was many years ago and I now need glasses for both near and distant. I use bifocals but that's just my preference.
So, before taking the eye exam, I would suggest that you not do any reading or close work for several hours prior to the test. I also have astigmatism which strangely is approximately 90 deg different in each eye, so for many years was able to get by since one eye was able to see vertical clear while the other was able to see horizontal (more or less).
So, before taking the eye exam, I would suggest that you not do any reading or close work for several hours prior to the test. I also have astigmatism which strangely is approximately 90 deg different in each eye, so for many years was able to get by since one eye was able to see vertical clear while the other was able to see horizontal (more or less).
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Hi guys.
Two absolutely brilliant replies, thank you!
So, lets first talk what the two eyetests showed, first one in Jul 2016, second one Oct 2016.
July -
.............. SPH CYL AXIS
Right eye -0.75 -2.50 x 90
Left Eye -0.50 -2.25 x 105
Oct -
.............. SPH CYL AXIS
Right eye -0.75 -3.00 x 90
Left Eye -0.50 -2.75 x 105
So as you can see, its the 'CYL' figure that has changed.
In between these two specsavers eye examinations, I had my Class 1 medical at Brookdale. Although the paperwork I received isn't quite legible (optometrists writing), he too found my eyesight to be different. Bear in mind, this was the first test we did on the day, after a 2 hour drive, with the incorrect prescription!
.............. SPH CYL AXIS
Right eye -0.75 -2.75 x 97
Left Eye -0.50 -3.25 x 106
His paperwork states Amblyopia 6/9 Bilaterally
Best corrected - unfit.
I received an email from the Chief AME on the day stating that I had been declared unfit due to Amblyopia.
At the AME test, I was extremely close to reading the 6/6 (20/20) line, and was even closer when I had the second Specsavers eyetest. I was reading 75-80% of the different 6/6 lines correctly. And the ones I was getting wrong were letters like A's and H's, F's and P's.
I've just picked up the updated lenses from my opticians yesterday and already feel like my eyes are relaxed more and straining less.
I have printed a Med 162 form which can be used as part of my appeal to the CAA I understand. To me, being so close, I feel it is worth every effort to achieve this.
Really looking forward to your replies.
Thanks for your help so far.
Two absolutely brilliant replies, thank you!
So, lets first talk what the two eyetests showed, first one in Jul 2016, second one Oct 2016.
July -
.............. SPH CYL AXIS
Right eye -0.75 -2.50 x 90
Left Eye -0.50 -2.25 x 105
Oct -
.............. SPH CYL AXIS
Right eye -0.75 -3.00 x 90
Left Eye -0.50 -2.75 x 105
So as you can see, its the 'CYL' figure that has changed.
In between these two specsavers eye examinations, I had my Class 1 medical at Brookdale. Although the paperwork I received isn't quite legible (optometrists writing), he too found my eyesight to be different. Bear in mind, this was the first test we did on the day, after a 2 hour drive, with the incorrect prescription!
.............. SPH CYL AXIS
Right eye -0.75 -2.75 x 97
Left Eye -0.50 -3.25 x 106
His paperwork states Amblyopia 6/9 Bilaterally
Best corrected - unfit.
I received an email from the Chief AME on the day stating that I had been declared unfit due to Amblyopia.
At the AME test, I was extremely close to reading the 6/6 (20/20) line, and was even closer when I had the second Specsavers eyetest. I was reading 75-80% of the different 6/6 lines correctly. And the ones I was getting wrong were letters like A's and H's, F's and P's.
I've just picked up the updated lenses from my opticians yesterday and already feel like my eyes are relaxed more and straining less.
I have printed a Med 162 form which can be used as part of my appeal to the CAA I understand. To me, being so close, I feel it is worth every effort to achieve this.
Really looking forward to your replies.
Thanks for your help so far.
Psychophysiological entity
My bold. Here is an example of one problem causing another AND altering your career path.
https://nei.nih.gov/health/amblyopia
Here's what I'd do.
1. Try going about simple daily tasks with the best eye covered up. In the old days you'd see several kids at school like this.
2. Ask your GP if you could have a small quantity of Valium (diazepam) Stress it's for diagnostic purposes only.
Pick a time when you don't have any critical duties but can put your eyesight to a test. I think, if there's been a change, the law provides for you having another free eye test. Have the test about an hour after taking the drug. Advise the optician of the plan as the timing will be fairly critical. Get someone to drive you there. Despite you probably not being able to tell the difference, you may have an all too great feeling of wellbeing. Not wise when driving.
Treat Valium with the greatest respect, and NEVER take it because it makes you feel good. i.e. relieves the stresses of these tests - that's not the plan. What it could well do is relax the muscles causing those changes.
If you were the subject of a scientific experiment, all variables would have to be removed to get pure results. Spasm in the extra or intra ocular muscles may well be slewing the eyesight results. There may well be a 'white coat' factor causing just this.
Benzodiazepines are extraordinarily good as a relaxant in cases like this, and it's strange, because once you find what's causing this distortion it's often as though the brain knows the game's up and the muscle doesn't go into spasm as frequently, if ever.
But again, treat that drug as something that could have side effects - for example, leave you very bad tempered after it wears off. It was deemed a drug that was emptying psychiatric establishments in the late 60's but later found to be causing terrible social problems when people started relying on them.
I've just remebered, I was given one to take the morning before my eye operation. I thought it funny they'd think that would calm me for back of the eye surgery under a local anaesthetic but it occurs to me they would have wanted to relax the very muscles I'm talking about.
A common cause of amblyopia is the inability of one eye to focus as well as the other one. Amblyopia can occur when one eye is more nearsighted, more farsighted, or has more astigmatism.
Here's what I'd do.
1. Try going about simple daily tasks with the best eye covered up. In the old days you'd see several kids at school like this.
2. Ask your GP if you could have a small quantity of Valium (diazepam) Stress it's for diagnostic purposes only.
Pick a time when you don't have any critical duties but can put your eyesight to a test. I think, if there's been a change, the law provides for you having another free eye test. Have the test about an hour after taking the drug. Advise the optician of the plan as the timing will be fairly critical. Get someone to drive you there. Despite you probably not being able to tell the difference, you may have an all too great feeling of wellbeing. Not wise when driving.
Treat Valium with the greatest respect, and NEVER take it because it makes you feel good. i.e. relieves the stresses of these tests - that's not the plan. What it could well do is relax the muscles causing those changes.
If you were the subject of a scientific experiment, all variables would have to be removed to get pure results. Spasm in the extra or intra ocular muscles may well be slewing the eyesight results. There may well be a 'white coat' factor causing just this.
Benzodiazepines are extraordinarily good as a relaxant in cases like this, and it's strange, because once you find what's causing this distortion it's often as though the brain knows the game's up and the muscle doesn't go into spasm as frequently, if ever.
But again, treat that drug as something that could have side effects - for example, leave you very bad tempered after it wears off. It was deemed a drug that was emptying psychiatric establishments in the late 60's but later found to be causing terrible social problems when people started relying on them.
I've just remebered, I was given one to take the morning before my eye operation. I thought it funny they'd think that would calm me for back of the eye surgery under a local anaesthetic but it occurs to me they would have wanted to relax the very muscles I'm talking about.
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That's really interesting, thank you.
I do wonder if my GP will be quite so willing to prescribe Valium though. He may be reluctant to prescribe it due to my Crohns?
What you are saying makes complete sense though. You're very well educated in the subject, thank you!
I do wonder if my GP will be quite so willing to prescribe Valium though. He may be reluctant to prescribe it due to my Crohns?
What you are saying makes complete sense though. You're very well educated in the subject, thank you!
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Hi mate.
Thank you for your input, it's appreciated. I have done the first suggestion and am appealing the Class 1 medical refusal. I will most definitely see my GP about a referral to an eye specialist too.
Thank you for your input, it's appreciated. I have done the first suggestion and am appealing the Class 1 medical refusal. I will most definitely see my GP about a referral to an eye specialist too.
Psychophysiological entity
Small cog. You may be surprised to learn that many years ago I had the attention of four Essex/Suffolk eye surgeons - all in fairly quick succession.
They were at a loss to find out why I had a problem and to cut a six month story short it was me that suggested muscle spasm. I had worked out what was happening and indeed, why.
The answer was based on me recalling a judo injury which left me with a muscle in the back of my neck that would wind up every day and be bloody awful by the evening. After a lot of relaxants I was prescribed valium. It worked like magic and needed little in the way of repeats. Asking to try this for the eye problem saved me terrible grief. My eyes were going into spasm because one of the lenses had a post-vitrectomy nuclear cataract and the brain was causing multi-lensing which in turn caused the spasm.
It took 30 minutes for the eyes to relax and the pain to stop - only returning slightly once.
Another case of just not accepting the word of professionals was when my youngest kid was about 15 months. All kinds of cultures had be grown from the muck that was filling his eye, and as many kinds of antibiotic applied. He was at an age where not using that eye for a long period would affect the neurological development of his vision. When I left the Colchester specialist with nothing but his loudly delivered pompous words ringing in my ears, I went home and got my wife to get lights while I got a powerful loupe. I was stunned. The duct, the main drain, had skin over it. It had never been open in his lifetime. I made a mini scalpel, cut away the skin, squeezed out some fatty tissue and applied the antibiotic. After eight months of going doctor to doctor to the leading consultant, he was better in 36 hours.
Time and time again in this life I have had to figure things out myself. Yes, thinking laterally can give odd results, but doing **** all can bring disaster.
They were at a loss to find out why I had a problem and to cut a six month story short it was me that suggested muscle spasm. I had worked out what was happening and indeed, why.
The answer was based on me recalling a judo injury which left me with a muscle in the back of my neck that would wind up every day and be bloody awful by the evening. After a lot of relaxants I was prescribed valium. It worked like magic and needed little in the way of repeats. Asking to try this for the eye problem saved me terrible grief. My eyes were going into spasm because one of the lenses had a post-vitrectomy nuclear cataract and the brain was causing multi-lensing which in turn caused the spasm.
It took 30 minutes for the eyes to relax and the pain to stop - only returning slightly once.
Another case of just not accepting the word of professionals was when my youngest kid was about 15 months. All kinds of cultures had be grown from the muck that was filling his eye, and as many kinds of antibiotic applied. He was at an age where not using that eye for a long period would affect the neurological development of his vision. When I left the Colchester specialist with nothing but his loudly delivered pompous words ringing in my ears, I went home and got my wife to get lights while I got a powerful loupe. I was stunned. The duct, the main drain, had skin over it. It had never been open in his lifetime. I made a mini scalpel, cut away the skin, squeezed out some fatty tissue and applied the antibiotic. After eight months of going doctor to doctor to the leading consultant, he was better in 36 hours.
Time and time again in this life I have had to figure things out myself. Yes, thinking laterally can give odd results, but doing **** all can bring disaster.
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How old are you?
Do you have keratoconus?
His paperwork states Amblyopia 6/9 Bilaterally
At 3.00 diopters of astigmatism you are outside the standard for issue but you are inside the standard for re-validation. So if you held a PPL and then applied for a class one medical they will apply the standards for re-validation.
But firstly make sure you haven't got KC as it can be stabilized. However once it goes above 3 diopters you will be screwed.
Do you have keratoconus?
His paperwork states Amblyopia 6/9 Bilaterally
At 3.00 diopters of astigmatism you are outside the standard for issue but you are inside the standard for re-validation. So if you held a PPL and then applied for a class one medical they will apply the standards for re-validation.
But firstly make sure you haven't got KC as it can be stabilized. However once it goes above 3 diopters you will be screwed.
Last edited by Mickey Kaye; 13th Jan 2017 at 09:07.
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Hi Mickey.
I'm 30. Crohns diagnosed 2012. But no significant issues since.
I've been to the opticians this morning in regard to getting the Med162 form filled in for the appeal. He put the 6/6 line up on the screen that I struggled with again. The two middle letters I struggled with again. It's most likely just those two letters that I miss, but he purposely put them up to test me!
He's also writing to my doctor to get a referral to an eye specislist as I mentioned the Crohns and the deterioration of my eyesight, so will check for Keratoconus.
Mickey, can I ask, if I were to have a PPL (with a class 2 medical - which I can pass) would my CPL class 1 examination then be a renewal/revalidation or would it be an initial?
I'm 30. Crohns diagnosed 2012. But no significant issues since.
I've been to the opticians this morning in regard to getting the Med162 form filled in for the appeal. He put the 6/6 line up on the screen that I struggled with again. The two middle letters I struggled with again. It's most likely just those two letters that I miss, but he purposely put them up to test me!
He's also writing to my doctor to get a referral to an eye specislist as I mentioned the Crohns and the deterioration of my eyesight, so will check for Keratoconus.
Mickey, can I ask, if I were to have a PPL (with a class 2 medical - which I can pass) would my CPL class 1 examination then be a renewal/revalidation or would it be an initial?
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Hi Mickey.
> I'm 30.
Age is good if you have KC then the rate of progressions slows and effectively stops by the age of 40. With the angle of your astigmatism not being oblique it does increase the likely hood of it being regular astigmatism. However as there is treatment to stop KC progressing it worth getting it confirmed.
The Optom really should be able to give you an idea if you have KC or not. If its forme fruste then it can be a bit trickier but still
The visual standards are on the CAA website and here and its an excellent reference source.
www.caa.co.uk/Aeromedical-Examiners/Medical-standards/Pilots-(EASA)/Conditions/Visual/Visual-system-guidance-material-GM/
> He put the 6/6 line up on the screen that I struggled with again. The two middle letters I struggled with again
However there are visual acuity charts and they are visual acuity charts.If the lights a little brighter or the chart is 6 inches closer then you will perform differently on one chart compared to others. Also numerous opticians use 3 meter space saving charts and then apply a fudge factor to make it 6 meters.
However the charts the CAA used to use at Gatwick were perfect. Spot on light levels and also at exactly 6 meters. Hence Ive come across people who have met the standard at the opticians but they are not judge and jury and have not met the standard when tested the CAA.
> Mickey, can I ask, if I were to have a PPL (with a class 2 medical - which I can pass) would my CPL class 1 examination then be a renewal/revalidation or would it be an initial.
I can only comment from a refraction point of view (as I have no experience in relation to the criteria that they apply with respect to VA) but in the past they have applied the re-validation requirements towards refractive error in PPL holders who hold a Class 2 medical.
I for instance have 2.75 dioptres of astigmatism and hold a class 1 medical and I know others who have gone via the PPL/Class 2 route as well.
> I'm 30.
Age is good if you have KC then the rate of progressions slows and effectively stops by the age of 40. With the angle of your astigmatism not being oblique it does increase the likely hood of it being regular astigmatism. However as there is treatment to stop KC progressing it worth getting it confirmed.
The Optom really should be able to give you an idea if you have KC or not. If its forme fruste then it can be a bit trickier but still
The visual standards are on the CAA website and here and its an excellent reference source.
www.caa.co.uk/Aeromedical-Examiners/Medical-standards/Pilots-(EASA)/Conditions/Visual/Visual-system-guidance-material-GM/
> He put the 6/6 line up on the screen that I struggled with again. The two middle letters I struggled with again
However there are visual acuity charts and they are visual acuity charts.If the lights a little brighter or the chart is 6 inches closer then you will perform differently on one chart compared to others. Also numerous opticians use 3 meter space saving charts and then apply a fudge factor to make it 6 meters.
However the charts the CAA used to use at Gatwick were perfect. Spot on light levels and also at exactly 6 meters. Hence Ive come across people who have met the standard at the opticians but they are not judge and jury and have not met the standard when tested the CAA.
> Mickey, can I ask, if I were to have a PPL (with a class 2 medical - which I can pass) would my CPL class 1 examination then be a renewal/revalidation or would it be an initial.
I can only comment from a refraction point of view (as I have no experience in relation to the criteria that they apply with respect to VA) but in the past they have applied the re-validation requirements towards refractive error in PPL holders who hold a Class 2 medical.
I for instance have 2.75 dioptres of astigmatism and hold a class 1 medical and I know others who have gone via the PPL/Class 2 route as well.
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Thanks for the reply.
The optometrist was reasonably confident I don't have KC, and the Topography test the AME did was normal too. But with the fact I have Crohns and the potential deterioration of my eyesight, he thinks it's worth the referral.
I'm very interested in going down the Class 2, to Class 1 route. I did infact ask the AME doctor about having a Class 2 for now, which I'd use with gaining my PPL. But he recommended appealing to the CAA in regard to gaining my Class 1 first.
The optometrist was reasonably confident I don't have KC, and the Topography test the AME did was normal too. But with the fact I have Crohns and the potential deterioration of my eyesight, he thinks it's worth the referral.
I'm very interested in going down the Class 2, to Class 1 route. I did infact ask the AME doctor about having a Class 2 for now, which I'd use with gaining my PPL. But he recommended appealing to the CAA in regard to gaining my Class 1 first.
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Small cog is correct, not everything written by everyone on Internet forums is sensible or makes sense.
In addition; if you don't meet 6/6 with correction you won't get a Class 1.
And should you only be able to get to 6/6 by trying hard you may want to ask yourself whether it is wise to invest the best part of £80k to get the CPL/IR only to have to worry about losing it every year due to any minor deterioration of your eyesight.
In addition; if you don't meet 6/6 with correction you won't get a Class 1.
And should you only be able to get to 6/6 by trying hard you may want to ask yourself whether it is wise to invest the best part of £80k to get the CPL/IR only to have to worry about losing it every year due to any minor deterioration of your eyesight.
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Has anyone on here heard this before?
The CAA have apparently told AME'S performing Class 1 initials that they can't declare individuals as unfit, only refer them to the CAA? Basically you can't declare someone who hasn't held a medical yet as unfit.
I was told on the day of my examination that I had failed (unfit) due to amblyopia and was told the process to appeal. I then contacted the CAA in regard to appealing and also in regard to gaining some more info about eyesight requirements (considering I was extremely close to the limit). I was then told by the CAA (via email) that I couldn't appeal the decision and that I needed to get back in contact with my AME as my medical hadn't been denied, but deferred (deferred, not referred).. so after contacting the AME admin office, I was told that the Dr required some more info in regard to my prescription (visual acuities etc), to which I sent them over the same day. Weeks later, and I mean weeks, after not hearing anything and a lot of chasing phone calls, I managed to finally speak to the chief AME, who says that there has been a lot of confusion since 2014 (even by people at the CAA) in regard to Class 1 initials being referred to the CAA. He then told me he has logged back into the system to change my result to 'unfit' as opposed to 'referred' so that I can now appeal the decision via the CAA. All in all, I've basically sat about for near on 5 weeks doing nothing and now I have to draw up an appeal letter to the CAA.
The CAA have apparently told AME'S performing Class 1 initials that they can't declare individuals as unfit, only refer them to the CAA? Basically you can't declare someone who hasn't held a medical yet as unfit.
I was told on the day of my examination that I had failed (unfit) due to amblyopia and was told the process to appeal. I then contacted the CAA in regard to appealing and also in regard to gaining some more info about eyesight requirements (considering I was extremely close to the limit). I was then told by the CAA (via email) that I couldn't appeal the decision and that I needed to get back in contact with my AME as my medical hadn't been denied, but deferred (deferred, not referred).. so after contacting the AME admin office, I was told that the Dr required some more info in regard to my prescription (visual acuities etc), to which I sent them over the same day. Weeks later, and I mean weeks, after not hearing anything and a lot of chasing phone calls, I managed to finally speak to the chief AME, who says that there has been a lot of confusion since 2014 (even by people at the CAA) in regard to Class 1 initials being referred to the CAA. He then told me he has logged back into the system to change my result to 'unfit' as opposed to 'referred' so that I can now appeal the decision via the CAA. All in all, I've basically sat about for near on 5 weeks doing nothing and now I have to draw up an appeal letter to the CAA.
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So, I've now been referred to a Ophthalmologist at Harley Street, London. He will most likely reperform the eyesight test and compile a report for the CAA. Wish me luck!
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Not want you want to hear Alex, but as others have said, I would reconsider going for it. You don't have to pass the medical once, it is going to be evert year, and 100% binocular vision is a must.
I would go to an eye specialist and try to find the reason why. If it does not change, yeah one day maybe you will get the OK from the CAA... for 12 months.
Having a medical condition threatening your medical every year is extremely stressful and it is not good for you or for your career.
"Investing" in training in your case is extremely risky.
You can fly on a class 2 medical. Do so. Try to fix the problem in the meantime, and then go back for it. Consider laser treatment, I would do it personally.
I would go to an eye specialist and try to find the reason why. If it does not change, yeah one day maybe you will get the OK from the CAA... for 12 months.
Having a medical condition threatening your medical every year is extremely stressful and it is not good for you or for your career.
"Investing" in training in your case is extremely risky.
You can fly on a class 2 medical. Do so. Try to fix the problem in the meantime, and then go back for it. Consider laser treatment, I would do it personally.
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Thank you for your reply. Yes it's definitely playing on my mind, that I don't want to be having to worry about it all the time. I think I can pass it this year, and then I think eyesight check is every couple of years isn't it? I can achieve a Class 2, no probs, but it's career flying I want to do, as opposed to hobbiest. I did think maybe I should look into laser surgery, but one optician told me that it won't make your vision any better than what it is, only make it so that you can achieve your best vision, just without having to wear the glasses to get it.
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I've also been referred to an ophthalmologist by my optician and gp, as apparently Crohns is commonly linked to eye problems (including keracatonus), but the AME's extensive examination report didn't point towards me having this, but it was worth looking into.
May I offer an alternative opinion:
I was refused a class 1 because of ophthalmic concerns. Being in the 'trade' I was able to obtain supporting evidence from ophthalmic colleagues and successfully appealed.
However every class 1 renewal was a concern and it became increasingly difficult to meet the requirements.
I only required a class 1 to support my occasional FI work, not for a full time aviation career.
I would be very cautious on embarking on an aviation career (with all the associated costs) if there was any concerns at the onset on being able to maintain class 1 medical certification.
I was refused a class 1 because of ophthalmic concerns. Being in the 'trade' I was able to obtain supporting evidence from ophthalmic colleagues and successfully appealed.
However every class 1 renewal was a concern and it became increasingly difficult to meet the requirements.
I only required a class 1 to support my occasional FI work, not for a full time aviation career.
I would be very cautious on embarking on an aviation career (with all the associated costs) if there was any concerns at the onset on being able to maintain class 1 medical certification.