Eagle 270

Having just been to one of UK's largest airshows, I feel I must comment on a couple of things. I felt the Airshow was really good concerning the flying display and organisation. Top notch. In this day and age of op commitments and lack of resources, the guys really pulled it out of the bag. Absolutely no complaints there. The one thing I have a bag on about is the standard of some of the personnel who attended. I feel that witnessing RAF aircrew walking around the general public with flying suit sleeves rolled up, wearing any description of sunglasses and having hands in pockets puts across a negative image of our Air Force. Very American. I feel that the public expects a higher standard of our armed forces when on public display. Something that the younger members seem to have no idea about. The trouble is I also witnessed ranks above Sqn Ldr who had no regard for there own turn out. Flying suits that had just been removed from there packing from flying clothing which looked like a bag of crisps. I'm not asking for Pirbright standards but basic military bearing in the public eye is not being overly facist!

When at an airshow, we all like to wear a grow bag with lots of badges but I feel it sets a bad example to the public when we look a bag of ****e. I even had to reprimand a couple of Cranditz types who felt it necessary to wear a flying suit with more badges on than Tom Cruise that last saw an iron in 1982. To add insult to injury, they were openly smoking and showing 'public displays of affection'. Who is their Flt commander?

I was in civvies for the event but when I suggested that they might not be putting across an altogether good impression in front of the civvies, I got a rebuke of 'wind your neck in civpop, we are FJ pilots'. Even when I revealed my identity, they showed little understanding of the RAF rank system! Now those that know me would agree that I'm not a bull5hit merchant and I'm not the smartest person in a flying suit but, on the rare occasions we present ourselves to the public, we need to ensure that we don't look like a bunch of plane spotters!

As a postscript, I chatted to a few of the army types and felt that they’re bearing and turn out to be exemplary. I spoke to a corporal pilot and his persona displayed nothing short of utmost professionalism. These people actually walked around the show with their berets on and saluted commissioned officers! Even in front of the plebeians! This is what the civvies want. If we want to ensure we have an air force, we have to appear to be different from the masses.

AMC@JHC

BEagle

I do hope that the negative image caused by the bunch of scruffs to whom you refer wasn't too obvious to the general public.

At least in 2 Gp the rules for flying suits are clear - flying badge and name on the front and not more than one badge per sleeve! Hats are supposed to be worn - but the rolled up sleeve look is normally displayed by the same sort of people who have plastic spoons in their pen pockets.....

'Clean, smart and of uniform appearance' does not seem to have been the case at Waddo - and it sounds as though the Cranditz types certainly needed a good kick up the ar$e!

rivetjoint

I think its even more important that an effort is made on the appearance front now that British flight suits are the same colour as our friends across the ocean. Something has to be done if you don't want the 'slightly-but-poorly' informed public to think you're from over the waters!

Didntdoit

Eagle - whilst not in anyway condoning the standard of dress, don't come to RIAT - you'll have a heart attack! RIAT, compared to Waddo, will be a zoo!

witchdoctor

Only the saddest of civvie anoraks or Hyacinth Bucket types would give two hoots about the standard of military dress. I think most of them come to watch the flying rather than to play Jeff Banks and critique the sartorial inelegance of the crews. Get a life you plonker!

bigley

Surely someone of your implied rank/status should be able to use their/there/they're properly! What sort of example does poor English set to us younger members of HM Forces.

DamienB

Civvy point of view - blokes walking round looking relaxed puts a more human face on the forces personnel. Lets the kids in particular know it's not all supermen and the job isn't one they'll never manage to do but is something attainable after all.

Fantastic flying I thought - Sunday particularly - F-4, F-16, F-18 and F.3 all particularly impressive. Looking at the German Tornados, it's a pity the RAF's days of spectacular paint schemes seem to be over! However good to see Marham let a GR.4 with warpaint out for the public to see.

Thought it was a bit silly to schedule all the quiet prop jobs together in the programme though - poor sod in the Tutor, having to go on just after Denny Dobson, who had about twice the horsepower and the limbo thing...

Gratuitous plug - some piccies in Aviation history & nostalgia forum.

smartman

Spot-on BEagle. Tis that sort of scruffiness and lack of pride in the uniform (and yes, the grobag is a uniform) that gets up the nose. It's nothing to do with the Cruise image, blunty v jet-jock arguments, example to kids etc, it's all about letting down the Service, Squadron and Self. Don't give a toss about the anti-Meldrew comments that this view will no doubt attract; I just hope that most aircrew are more concerned about their public appearance, and that it's the sad minority who put across the loutish image. And if anyone should suggest that my views are purile in the 'operational/going to war' sense - I disagree.

Wow! I can feel the chest-prodding already -----------

soddim

Well said smartman and bigley. Smart dress and good spelling are the essential ingredients of a modern air force!

Tourist

Smartman, eagle, beagle etc.
what a bag of w@nk!
get a life

round&round

As a Waddington local who attended the show in flying suit I think I can offer a few concillitory comments. Firstly, local orders re the wearing of badges strictly follows 2 Gp orders and is enforced.

SRO's stated that hats were not to be worn on the airfield side. The AAC guys were obviously not aware of this.

Certainly, I experienced and talked to some Cranwell and UAS cadets who's behaviour was inappropiate and immature. Perhaps that's a sign of the times.

Both days were hot and sunny and sun glasses were essential. Until the RAF issues Raybans or Oakleys, people have no choice but to wear their own.

It's also worth remembering that an awful lot of spotters like to dress up for the day. I saw a few who had the full regalia including a couple with rank stripes.

I thought it was a great show and on the whole the RAF presented itself very positively and effectively.

SPIT

Hi
As I have stated in another forum (C130 J the display was superb but I was in the back of beyond in the South Car Park and whilst we had a great view there were NO TOILETS WITHIN 3/4 MILE OF US and when you have aj injured leg it is a Sod having to get the bus when you want to go (even though the bus was free). Did anyone else have this experiance????

BEagle

Tourist - if, as your profile implies, you are a member of what some refer to as the Senior Service, I am surprised that you do not find comments by mere 'Crabs' concerning the scruffiness of certain folk in accordance with your service's self-professed high sartorial standards.

The Gorilla

Eagle

You are so full of your own self-importance I bet you can hardly breathe!! Senior Officer are we?? Constipated as well?? Just listen to your own drivel...

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I even had to reprimand a couple of Cranditz types who felt it necessary to wear a flying suit with more badges on than Tom Cruise that last saw an iron in 1982. To add insult to injury, they were openly smoking and showing 'public displays of affection'. Who is their Flt commander?
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A lot of people at these Air shows are not who they may seem to be.

You on the other hand are every bit the cretin you appear to be. I had the misfortune to be working at the Air show and despite the fact that yes, being in the RAF is very negative these days, I still presented my best image to Joe Public.

You need to get a life and have your blood pressure checked you stupid muppet!!!!!!!!!!!!

DaveyBoy

I even had to reprimand a couple of Cranditz types who felt it necessary to wear a flying suit with more badges on than Tom Cruise that last saw an iron in 1982.

Of course I agree with the idea that the RAF should present a smart appearance to the public, but in addition to round&round's points regarding hats and sunglasses, you will no doubt be aware that squippers can get quite upset if they find out you've been ironing flying suits you intend to wear in the air.

So I think there's a fine line between one having no regard for appearance, and one sticking to the rules and looking like a bag of sh*te nevertheless.

Dave

Good Mickey

Well done and thanks to all those involved with the Waddo Airshow, it was a fantastic weekend. I thought that the Spanish F-18 was particularly impressive closely followed by the Herc role demo. Oh and I didn't see anybody letting the Air Force down due to standards of dress but did see lots of lovely ladies.

mutleyfour

Have to agree...F 18 was very good but the Sukhoi 26 was easily the best of show. Amazing flying, especially the "really hard" manouvre which had a running commentary over the PA system which had been linked to the pilots radio.

How on earth he managed up to 10 G without a G suit and spoke to the crowd, I don't know.

With regard to dress, Isn't that normal for airshows nowadays? Its a condition of the Royal Air Force that a flying suit is also a set of coveralls as well as a drinking tracksuit...in fact im sure that the majority of RAF issued flying suits spend on average 99% of their time firmly placed on the ground!

DamienB

Best of show - you must be kidding. With 460 odd hp and an 8 foot prop, spending most of your time hanging off said prop is just fecking boring and merely demonstrates the pilot has money to burn on powerful aircraft and engineers to fix his engine every time he knackers it. Been watching that bloke's displays for a while now and don't think I've seen him come up with anything original yet - it's all nicked off others. The Tutor was a better display of skill - and the Extra immeasurably more entertaining. What's the betting Mr. Su-26 copies Denny's limbo act next eh.

smartman

Anyone spot the sexy BWoS blonde ?

flyboy007

LLLLLOOOOOOOSSSSSSSSEEEEEEERRRRRRRRR.It's quite simple really.
1) You don't want people wearing all types of different sunglasses?Then hows about YOU get the rules changed so that the issue specs are half decent, as currently they put the RAF to shame (even if they are tested to 25g and capable of surviving a rapid depressurisation at 76000' blah blah blah). No civvy in their right mind would encourage their offspring to join a company that makes a walking mockery of spec wearers!
2) Don't like aircrew with sleeves rolled up? YOU organise a decent flying suit that is comfortable in warm weather (not like the "new" design, which, after years of careful research and ££, is a different shade of green!).
3)Hands in pockets? I concur, it looks a little sloppy at times. Here you are sla*ging off the Americans, saying we don't want to look like them; THEY DON'T HAVE HIP POCKETS IN THEIR FLYING SUITS! They are better dressed than us when it comes to flying wear.
4) Anyone seen with a crease in their flying suit should be immediately sent to PMA. YOU DON'T IRON FLYING SUITS!!!!
5) Smoking in uniform? Sounds like the comments of a non-smoker to me. Smoking isn't BAD, it's a choice. Anyone small minded enough to slate the RAF because some of their personnel "SMOKE", is obviously as An*l Retentive as your self!
6) Mordernise. We ain't in 1923 (or whenever it was you joined) anymore. Fashion has changed, and the RAF should be seen as up with the times, in all respects.

That is all, Carry on.