JetBird
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Bristol
Age: 54
Posts: 867
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Eh?
Claret Capital is losing nearly as many €millions as it is Directors, JetBird has sacked all it's staff and cancelled it's orders (at millions of dollars of retained deposits no doubt)
What News were you expecting - that they had raised another few million from people who didn't lose all their money on the first attempt and that they were going to re-order some Phenoms?
Whilst I'm all for Optimism, there is a point when it becomes dillusion.
Claret Capital is losing nearly as many €millions as it is Directors, JetBird has sacked all it's staff and cancelled it's orders (at millions of dollars of retained deposits no doubt)
What News were you expecting - that they had raised another few million from people who didn't lose all their money on the first attempt and that they were going to re-order some Phenoms?
Whilst I'm all for Optimism, there is a point when it becomes dillusion.
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: copacabana
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I got sacked.....
Unfortunately I was one of those people that got the bullet . Had received dates for the TR having completed the web based familiarisation course and was on my way to BH. A week later was told that my services were no longer required. It was that efficient. The whole operation seems to have crashed and burned very quickly. Having held out for the best part of a year I was on my way and chasing the dream. I guess its time to move on and look elsewhere. At this stage I'm thinking of quitting all together and chasing some other career where you dont get screwed around as much. In an industry where the T&C are for ever being eroded, I think its time to take a rain check, take a back seat and reflect.....
Would be interesting to know what the other guys, that completed their TR's , are doing. Have they found any Phenom positions ?
Best of luck
Would be interesting to know what the other guys, that completed their TR's , are doing. Have they found any Phenom positions ?
Best of luck
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: HonkyDong
Posts: 263
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was one of those to have actually completed the Phenom rating with JB.
It was a real shame as it was all looking very exciting whilst we were at CAE, I have to say though that even then I reckon the cracks were starting to show.
I never got the opportunity to actually complete the circuits on the Phenom, thus I still don't have it on my licence, cost being the main factor. All that training and hard graft for nothing...well not entirely, I did get to know some great guys along the way!
I secured an opportunity elsewhere on a different aircraft and am very happy. For me it has actually worked out better this way but I still think it could have been a fantastic op if it had succeeded and I wish everyone who is still looking, the best of luck!
It was a real shame as it was all looking very exciting whilst we were at CAE, I have to say though that even then I reckon the cracks were starting to show.
I never got the opportunity to actually complete the circuits on the Phenom, thus I still don't have it on my licence, cost being the main factor. All that training and hard graft for nothing...well not entirely, I did get to know some great guys along the way!
I secured an opportunity elsewhere on a different aircraft and am very happy. For me it has actually worked out better this way but I still think it could have been a fantastic op if it had succeeded and I wish everyone who is still looking, the best of luck!
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: copacabana
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
sc man
I'm still passionate about flying and all things aviation but just cant seem to get that lucky break. I think we were all very excited about JB but unfortunately the luck ran out for everyone. Any of you guys know of any new start ups in the biz jet world ? I guess you cant hang around for ever, got to keep chasin d dream. 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
more startups
@embryonic oh, there are still start-ups, don't worry. there will always be someone trying something new. you may have a look @ roxair. A couple of weeks ago I started a thread about them just to now if anyone heard about them. Seems they are still trying - and remarkably still refering to JB on their website (comparison of pricing). There is not much of a change on their website, they just added a twitter feed and a downloadable long statement from the manager during the last 3 months. But who knows? Anyone else knowing about other startups?
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: in the wild blue yonder
Posts: 131
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Embraer seems to leap at these MEGA deals....(SWIFT AVIATION, Indigo) must be their 'airline' background. Jetblue was ambitious at the best of times, and fuelled as much by hype as by a firm grasp of this market sector.....but hey...that's just an opinion, but an opinion expressed at the time, and in each case.....so I guess with 3 outta 3 I'm either clairvoyant or have some grasp of the business.
Embraer's focus on the VLJ hype at the expense of selling big jets, when the going was good, has surely damaged their financial position in the long term. The Lineage is hugely under performing in the market..and the 450/500 are way late......
As for JetBlue.....yet again, many innocent victims. If only the 'entrepreneurs' could understand that first you have to actually build a business and prove the model on a small scale before claiming that all issues are solved on a massive scale and you are the next best thing to sliced bread....it's just unleashed ego...rather than clever business.
Case in point, look at Avinode. A bright idea, that I've followed from almost day one. Gradually, by working hard they've built a real worldwide business now...and not hyped anything, just delivered a clever innovative product.
Rule of thumb for the future...
Chances of success of a new business = (Actual aircraft in operation - announced projected number of aircraft)/(number of press releases issued claiming things in the future vs. those announcing actual real achievements + number of photo's of CEO or Chairman in Press shaking hands on a deal where nothing is actually achieved in terms of real revenue into the entity).
If that maths is a touch trying there is an even quicker guestimate method....
Chance of success is inversely proportional to number of images of new business president (if a man) shown NOT wearing a tie...... (female run start ups seem not to have the same BIG ego issues, and succeed or fail without the brouhaha)
I give you Jet Republic as a control sample for either above equation......
Embraer's focus on the VLJ hype at the expense of selling big jets, when the going was good, has surely damaged their financial position in the long term. The Lineage is hugely under performing in the market..and the 450/500 are way late......
As for JetBlue.....yet again, many innocent victims. If only the 'entrepreneurs' could understand that first you have to actually build a business and prove the model on a small scale before claiming that all issues are solved on a massive scale and you are the next best thing to sliced bread....it's just unleashed ego...rather than clever business.
Case in point, look at Avinode. A bright idea, that I've followed from almost day one. Gradually, by working hard they've built a real worldwide business now...and not hyped anything, just delivered a clever innovative product.
Rule of thumb for the future...
Chances of success of a new business = (Actual aircraft in operation - announced projected number of aircraft)/(number of press releases issued claiming things in the future vs. those announcing actual real achievements + number of photo's of CEO or Chairman in Press shaking hands on a deal where nothing is actually achieved in terms of real revenue into the entity).
If that maths is a touch trying there is an even quicker guestimate method....
Chance of success is inversely proportional to number of images of new business president (if a man) shown NOT wearing a tie...... (female run start ups seem not to have the same BIG ego issues, and succeed or fail without the brouhaha)
I give you Jet Republic as a control sample for either above equation......
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: in the wild blue yonder
Posts: 131
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yeah .... nice pictures....
That said Grossman has built a business over years, from a small but steady operation and therefore in the equation test, I think you'll find they don't announce massive purchases of aircraft out of all balance with that fleet they already operate, nor do they issue a 100 press releases claiming to be masters of the bizjet world and that they'll dominate the market in 18 months.....(OK I exaggerate)
Seems like a sensible well run business to me......(actually I know them)...
they could go bust, as any of us could, but that would be after a number of real and genuine events.....not because they have no idea what they are doing and put hype and hope before any rational thinking or behaviour...
yeah I think my equations and rule of thumb are a decent guide.
the famous Unique Air...would also fall foul totally by my formula...and I did indeed call these guys out, after two meetings with them...sadly I hadn't realised how many people were going to suffer.....but I was 100% sure they were NOT going to ever buy the aircraft they were claiming they already had funds to buy.....
That said Grossman has built a business over years, from a small but steady operation and therefore in the equation test, I think you'll find they don't announce massive purchases of aircraft out of all balance with that fleet they already operate, nor do they issue a 100 press releases claiming to be masters of the bizjet world and that they'll dominate the market in 18 months.....(OK I exaggerate)
Seems like a sensible well run business to me......(actually I know them)...
they could go bust, as any of us could, but that would be after a number of real and genuine events.....not because they have no idea what they are doing and put hype and hope before any rational thinking or behaviour...
yeah I think my equations and rule of thumb are a decent guide.
the famous Unique Air...would also fall foul totally by my formula...and I did indeed call these guys out, after two meetings with them...sadly I hadn't realised how many people were going to suffer.....but I was 100% sure they were NOT going to ever buy the aircraft they were claiming they already had funds to buy.....
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Curb Your Enthusiasm
@suitcaseman
To me the statement from Embraer's VP is only a nice way to say: "Hey, it's nobodys fault, really, but it's over!". As an OEM nobody wants to answer questions like "But why did you close a contract like this with a start-up like that in the first place?"
To me the statement from Embraer's VP is only a nice way to say: "Hey, it's nobodys fault, really, but it's over!". As an OEM nobody wants to answer questions like "But why did you close a contract like this with a start-up like that in the first place?"