Jetstar cadets grounded
Kelpie;
I've been trying to follow this from the kick off and am starting to be overwhelmed by all the revelations.This makes me think that some others who haven't been following it so closely will get lost in this thread. Do you think you could make a 'summary post' and list;
1/All the outright false statements made by management at the inquirey
2/Any contradictions etc that have been uncovered in the last week or so,
onto one page so as to build a quick and easy picture of where things are at?
My motivation for asking you to donate your time to doing this is that I imagine some influential people are aware of this thread and influential people are often time poor. I would hate them to miss something
Ps Maybe it could even be the first post of a new thread so as it's not hidden away on page 10 of the thread.
Just a thought, Cheers, Framer.
I've been trying to follow this from the kick off and am starting to be overwhelmed by all the revelations.This makes me think that some others who haven't been following it so closely will get lost in this thread. Do you think you could make a 'summary post' and list;
1/All the outright false statements made by management at the inquirey
2/Any contradictions etc that have been uncovered in the last week or so,
onto one page so as to build a quick and easy picture of where things are at?
My motivation for asking you to donate your time to doing this is that I imagine some influential people are aware of this thread and influential people are often time poor. I would hate them to miss something
Ps Maybe it could even be the first post of a new thread so as it's not hidden away on page 10 of the thread.
Just a thought, Cheers, Framer.
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AIPA would be bloody crazy to accept a 'B' scale for the cadets. What is wrong with just saying 'no', if the company then go ahead with the 'b' scale thing anyway at least it is not with the 'support' of the union.
Once a 'b' scale is introduced, the fight to retain the EBA is over.
Once a 'b' scale is introduced, the fight to retain the EBA is over.
A line from There's something about Mary... "...F#ck it, I'm going down there..."
Got the day off, as does a good mate in Qantas. Won't be missing it for quids! See you there boys and girls!
Got the day off, as does a good mate in Qantas. Won't be missing it for quids! See you there boys and girls!
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Framer,
I hear where your coming from, requesting a summary to date from Kelpie's treasure trove of background info.
However,
I'd much prefer to hear the info he/she's collected at the same time AJ & BB do at the senate inquiry.
MC.
I hear where your coming from, requesting a summary to date from Kelpie's treasure trove of background info.
However,
I'd much prefer to hear the info he/she's collected at the same time AJ & BB do at the senate inquiry.
MC.
Last edited by Mstr Caution; 11th Mar 2011 at 19:41. Reason: spell checked
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I was told, however, that AIPA thought it highly unlikely they could achieve that goal and that successfully negotiating a 'B Scale' would be an acceptable second prize as it would at least mean that the Cadet group would have an Aussie contract and be able to be formally represented by AIPA...
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"Even though I would like to think I am going to be chief executive for the next 25 years, it will probably be a decision for the next chief executive about where the heavy maintenance of those aircraft will be done," Mr Joyce said.
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Posted in reply to post on the Senate Inquiry thread but more appropriate here given that Senate Inquiry thread is about safety and pilot training and this one is about Ts and Cs.
Basing the cadets in SYD/MEL/BNE/GLDY is a big two fingers to the remainder of the pilot group to assert authority and as a knee-jerk backlash as punishment for some cadet program documents, and other internal documents being leaked.
It is part of a wider strategy to gouge a negotiating position with the Unions. Soon the company will approach the Unions and offer to move the cadets out of these bases once they have completed their base training to appease the rest of the pilot group in exchange for accepting the introduction of a B Scale.
This, i would suggest has been a planned ambush from day one. The company will use the plight of the cadets to push the urgency of the unions to agree with the introduction of a B scale, possibly in an entity other than the one that has the EBA.
The unions must resist this pressure as the introduction of a B Scale will have a long term effect on the future of Air Crew terms and conditions. If the Senate Inquiry increases the required experience to pilot an airliner or if the company subsequently moves these cadets 'to meet the ongoing needs of the business' these and future cadets will be unlikely to have a part in the airline life at these bases anyway until later in their career. However, the B Scale concession will live on and continue to erode Ts and Cs.
More to Follow
The Kelpie
Basing the cadets in SYD/MEL/BNE/GLDY is a big two fingers to the remainder of the pilot group to assert authority and as a knee-jerk backlash as punishment for some cadet program documents, and other internal documents being leaked.
It is part of a wider strategy to gouge a negotiating position with the Unions. Soon the company will approach the Unions and offer to move the cadets out of these bases once they have completed their base training to appease the rest of the pilot group in exchange for accepting the introduction of a B Scale.
This, i would suggest has been a planned ambush from day one. The company will use the plight of the cadets to push the urgency of the unions to agree with the introduction of a B scale, possibly in an entity other than the one that has the EBA.
The unions must resist this pressure as the introduction of a B Scale will have a long term effect on the future of Air Crew terms and conditions. If the Senate Inquiry increases the required experience to pilot an airliner or if the company subsequently moves these cadets 'to meet the ongoing needs of the business' these and future cadets will be unlikely to have a part in the airline life at these bases anyway until later in their career. However, the B Scale concession will live on and continue to erode Ts and Cs.
More to Follow
The Kelpie
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"B" Scale for Cadets
Folks,
I think that this whole debate about "B" Scale for cadets started from misinformation and risks gaining a life of its own.
I am very reliably informed that no such position has been contemplated by AIPA.
On the other hand, AIPA was first out of the blocks in publicising this whole disgraceful "cadet" scheme and it is very much a matter of seeing what Jetstar comes up with - other than their current stance of big round eyes with teeny weeny pupils staring into the harsh light of being sprung!!!!!!
Stay Alive,
I think that this whole debate about "B" Scale for cadets started from misinformation and risks gaining a life of its own.
I am very reliably informed that no such position has been contemplated by AIPA.
On the other hand, AIPA was first out of the blocks in publicising this whole disgraceful "cadet" scheme and it is very much a matter of seeing what Jetstar comes up with - other than their current stance of big round eyes with teeny weeny pupils staring into the harsh light of being sprung!!!!!!
Stay Alive,
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I don't know, but I am hearing rumours that it now means that these cadets are getting paid more than fully fledged Jetstar New Zealand First Officers, so in one badly planned move Jetstar have pis*ed off:
Jetstar NZ First Officers!
Jetstar Australia First Officers, particularly the ones based in Darwin!!
All pilots in the 'hold pool' who positions are now in threat by the influx of cadets!
I know of a couple of Jetstar New Zealand FO's who were pretty much forced to take the NZ contract on the promise that an OZ base would be available to them within the first year under some new transfer agreement. They were then told it was legally impossible due to agreements under the EBA. It would appear now that these EBA 'agreements' are easy to circumvent when the company deems fit!!
Good on ya Jetstar!
Jetstar NZ First Officers!
Jetstar Australia First Officers, particularly the ones based in Darwin!!
All pilots in the 'hold pool' who positions are now in threat by the influx of cadets!
I know of a couple of Jetstar New Zealand FO's who were pretty much forced to take the NZ contract on the promise that an OZ base would be available to them within the first year under some new transfer agreement. They were then told it was legally impossible due to agreements under the EBA. It would appear now that these EBA 'agreements' are easy to circumvent when the company deems fit!!
Good on ya Jetstar!
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What is the word from the Unions?
Last I read they were strenuously objecting to a new contract and were insisting on the use of the EBA.
Is the new contract the EBA?
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The Kelpie
Last I read they were strenuously objecting to a new contract and were insisting on the use of the EBA.
Is the new contract the EBA?
More to Follow
The Kelpie
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Not according to the company email, it is a new contract in line with the Modern Award. So either the unions have given up on the EBA or J* has done this without their consent or approval.
Gidday Kelpie.
WRT the NZ Contracted Aussie DEC F/O's and their line training in OZ whilst being paid Kiwi dollars etc, etc... (Crikey! My head's spinning), that I mentioned on the other thread. I gleened that info from a workmate who is friends with one of the affected pilots. He assures me that it is correct and it was confirmed by this chap just a couple of days ago. Rumour network, so slight grain of salt, but I have no reason to disbelieve him.
I've sent an email to the Federation, but I'm sure if it's happening they would be aware of it. Mind you, there is also AIPA and the JPC, so if it is happening one would be very surprised if they weren't all over this. Considering how this bastardised practice was allowed to perpetuate in the first place though, nothing would surprise me!
As far as Cadets now being on Australian wages and conditions, and being paid more than DEC F/O's on inferior NZ contracts: My advice to these DEC F/O's who allowed themselves to be exploited, you lay down with dogs and you will get fleas!
WRT the NZ Contracted Aussie DEC F/O's and their line training in OZ whilst being paid Kiwi dollars etc, etc... (Crikey! My head's spinning), that I mentioned on the other thread. I gleened that info from a workmate who is friends with one of the affected pilots. He assures me that it is correct and it was confirmed by this chap just a couple of days ago. Rumour network, so slight grain of salt, but I have no reason to disbelieve him.
I've sent an email to the Federation, but I'm sure if it's happening they would be aware of it. Mind you, there is also AIPA and the JPC, so if it is happening one would be very surprised if they weren't all over this. Considering how this bastardised practice was allowed to perpetuate in the first place though, nothing would surprise me!
As far as Cadets now being on Australian wages and conditions, and being paid more than DEC F/O's on inferior NZ contracts: My advice to these DEC F/O's who allowed themselves to be exploited, you lay down with dogs and you will get fleas!
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Cheers Krusty
All seems very quiet from the AFAP camp although I understand that a briefing note was posted on the private section of the Union website relating to the situation before the 'real story' of an alternative contract to the EBA came out
More to Follow
The Kelpie
All seems very quiet from the AFAP camp although I understand that a briefing note was posted on the private section of the Union website relating to the situation before the 'real story' of an alternative contract to the EBA came out
More to Follow
The Kelpie