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Mega Merged: AsA ATC staffing levels

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Mega Merged: AsA ATC staffing levels

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Old 26th Dec 2022, 20:09
  #641 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by missy
The Australian Civil ATC system is based on controllers (and other support staff) working inordinate amounts of Overtime. AsA are understaffed for normal operations and chronologically understaffed at other times. FOI request for Overtime hours would be revealing.

Is overtime something that has to be agreed to by the staff member or is it simply rostered?
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Old 26th Dec 2022, 22:46
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Originally Posted by gordonfvckingramsay
Is overtime something that has to be agreed to by the staff member or is it simply rostered?
It's agreed to
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Old 27th Dec 2022, 00:28
  #643 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ReefToppy
It's agreed to
Not trying to start an argument here but the ATC guys do have a choice then. Overtime is a choice and many pilots I know refuse it in the interests of not becoming chronically fatigued.
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Old 27th Dec 2022, 02:41
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Originally Posted by gordonfvckingramsay
Not trying to start an argument here but the ATC guys do have a choice then. Overtime is a choice and many pilots I know refuse it in the interests of not becoming chronically fatigued.
They do. The large amount of contingency and TIBA NOTAMs over the last 12 months is a result of controllers saying no.
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Old 27th Dec 2022, 03:40
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Originally Posted by ReefToppy
They do. The large amount of contingency and TIBA NOTAMs over the last 12 months is a result of controllers saying no.
gordonfvckingramsay, if all the controllers said no, then firstly, it would be perceived as Industrial action, and secondly there would be so many contingency and TIBA NOTAMs that it would noticed by the travelling public.
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Old 27th Dec 2022, 05:15
  #646 (permalink)  
 
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So some controllers are saying yes when they really want to say no?
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Old 27th Dec 2022, 10:19
  #647 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by missy
gordonfvckingramsay, if all the controllers said no, then firstly, it would be perceived as Industrial action, and secondly there would be so many contingency and TIBA NOTAMs that it would noticed by the travelling public.
It would be very hard if not illegal to claim the non-acceptance of overtime due to chronic overtime and chronically fatiguing rosters is industrial.
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Old 27th Dec 2022, 10:43
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Wait, overtime is a choice? Perhaps somebody needs to tell a few local airlines that
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Old 27th Dec 2022, 11:17
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It's certainly been claimed as such in the past - changes in the historical pattern of accepting overtime shifts, entirely ignoring there are limits to what people are willing or able to bear.
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Old 27th Dec 2022, 11:20
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Originally Posted by gordonfvckingramsay
It would be very hard if not illegal to claim the non-acceptance of overtime due to chronic overtime and chronically fatiguing rosters is industrial.
AsA management would probably argue that this thread is a form of Industrial Action. IDK.

From the Enterprise Agreement.
Additional Hours
(a) An employee has an obligation to work a reasonable amount of additional hours where it is necessary to meet operational requirements. This obligation is subject to the provisions in the remainder of this clause.
(b) If, having regard to the matters set out in (i) to (v) below, it would be unreasonable for an employee to work the additional hours, the employee does not have an obligation to work those hours:
(i) any risk to the employee’s health and safety;
(ii) the employee’s personal circumstances, including family responsibilities;
(iii) the needs of the workplace;
(iv) the notice given by Airservices of the requirement to work the additional hours and any notice the employee has given about their availability or unavailability to perform additional hours work in a particular period;
(v) any other relevant matter.
(c) If an employee is asked to work additional hours and after considering the matters mentioned in clause (b)(i)-(v) (as above), the employee concludes that it would be unreasonable for them to work those additional hours, they may decline to work those hours and they will not be required to work those particular hours. In that event, Airservices is entitled to ask the employee to provide the reason or reasons for their conclusion and if Airservices wish to dispute whether the refusal is justified under this clause, it can do so, in which case the dispute will be dealt with in accordance with Disputes Avoidance and Settlement Process clause.
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Old 27th Dec 2022, 11:28
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And the one that trumps everything: "I'm not fit for duty"
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Old 27th Dec 2022, 12:35
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Missy, how would the travelling public know what TIBA is? They can't tell a Cessna from a Boeing/Airbus! As long as they get to their destination they don't care!
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Old 28th Dec 2022, 01:23
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Originally Posted by missy
gordonfvckingramsay, if all the controllers said no, then firstly, it would be perceived as Industrial action, and secondly there would be so many contingency and TIBA NOTAMs that it would noticed by the travelling public.
That’s hardly a problem the travelling public or pilots should be concerned about or covering for. If ASA can’t retain staff the system needs to fail and the conditions need to change.
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Old 29th Dec 2022, 09:43
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Originally Posted by MalcolmReynolds
Missy, how would the travelling public know what TIBA is? They can't tell a Cessna from a Boeing/Airbus! As long as they get to their destination they don't care!
Yes you are correct, I originally typed that the airlines need to stop flying through TIBA but changed my wording. Affordable safety I guess, or their risk/reward profile allows their aircraft to fly through TIBA airspace.
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Old 1st Jan 2023, 09:33
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Australian Aviation has picked up on the story too but it also has a paywall

Also a follow up in the Oz just now


https://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/unacceptable-sydney-air-control-unit-left-without-a-manager-70-times-as-melbournebased-controllers-left-in-tears/news-story/88b60a4ef4e544be418569c31a92b85b?amp

Last edited by 10JQKA; 1st Jan 2023 at 11:47.
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Old 1st Jan 2023, 21:28
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Can anyone with access do a cut/paste?
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Old 2nd Jan 2023, 00:36
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Australian Aviation article by Adam Thorn 1/1/23

The professional body representing Qantas pilots has said it isn’t
safe to have large swathes of regional Australia not serviced by air
traffic controllers.

It comes after The Australian revealed that there were 340 instances
of ‘uncontrolled airspace’recorded since June last year in areas
usually monitored by staff in towers.

Airservices, which oversees air traffic control, put the absences down
to sickness caused by flu and COVID and insisted the practice didn’t
put lives at risk.

However, AIPA president and Qantas pilot Tony Lucas called the
practice unsafe and said flying in unsupervised areas means pilots
have to ‘self-separate’, which increases their workload.

“It increases our operational complexity and workload because we are
now trying to separate ourselves from other aircraft, potentially
impacting safety,” he said.

“These sorts of events should not be happening frequently and
certainly not due to resourcing issues.

“Leaving airspace uncontrolled should only happen in near-emergency
situations, such as a fire in an air traffic control centre, for a
very short period of time.

“We need to build more resilience into the system to make sure these
events are not happening on a regular basis.”

Lucas’ views appear to directly contradict those of Airservices, which
insisted there are “safe and globally recognised procedures” in place
to enable pilots to cope with uncontrolled airspace.

It added the situation was due to “staff availability issues”.

“We employ more than 900 air traffic controllers and require 800 air
traffic controllers at any one time to fully staff the air traffic
management system across the country,” Airservices said

“There are a further 65 air traffic controllers in training. Like all
other sectors of the economy, we have experienced staff availability
issues this year due to the worst flu season in years and Covid-19
infections.

“Over the past 12 months, our air traffic control workforce has taken
19,700 days of unplanned leave, principally due to illness. This is 44
per cent higher than our pre-pandemic average.

“But despite this, our service level has been varied by less than 0.1
per cent of the total time this year.

“The airspace continues to be monitored at our major air traffic
management centres, access to the airspace is regulated to ensure
aircraft separation, and pilots follow internationally recognised
procedures to ensure separation.”

In Australia, there are two major types of airspace: controlled and
uncontrolled. Controlled is actively monitored and managed by air
traffic controllers and requires clearance to enter.

Uncontrolled airspace has no supervision, so no clearance is required.
This is traditionally where the majority of helicopters and light
aircraft operate in.

The instances reported by The Australian crucially refer to usually
controlled airspace that temporarily has no controllers working.

The revelation comes months after Australian Aviation obtained a
recording that revealed how air traffic control missed one of the most
serious aviation safety incidents in a generation involving a packed
A330.

It also follows two landmark reports that made claims of a toxic
culture at Airservices.

The first, by a Federal Court QC, argued its culture was so poor it
could “endanger the lives of air travellers”, while a second revealed
an “unacceptable” atmosphere of bullying, sexual harassment and
racism.

Airservices said the earlier investigation’s claims were “false and
alarmist” but implemented the recommendations of the second, which it
commissioned.

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Old 15th Jan 2023, 12:06
  #658 (permalink)  
 
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I understand that the lack of staffing isn't only affecting ATC but also radar techs and radio techs. Move along, nothing to see, "These Are Not the Droids You Are Looking For".
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Old 15th Jan 2023, 20:55
  #659 (permalink)  
 
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“Over the past 12 months, our air traffic control workforce has taken 19,700 days of unplanned leave, principally due to illness. This is 44 per cent higher than our pre-pandemic average.

“But despite this, our service level has been varied by less than 0.1 per cent of the total time this year.
The blokes and blokettes who do rock up must be killing the pig with their OT! But let's look at their numbers:
We employ more than 900 air traffic controllers and require 800 air traffic controllers at any one time to fully staff the air traffic management system across the country
19,700 days of unplanned leave, aka Personal ("Sick") Leave. If you are generous to ASA and say they have 950 'certified and workstation-capable' (ie not on light-duties, or in any supervisory or managerial position, but actually sit at a console and talk on the radio daily) then each and every one of those 950 controllers took 20 days sick leave last year. Not quite, but close to two sick days a month.

Not knowing what their roster looks like, but if they worked a typical 8 hour day, that's still about 4 weeks personal leave a year when you factor in typical RDO's. That's a lot. No matter what ASA would have us believe - and not for an instant do I look to blame the controller's. Personal leave is there to be used, and you are not going to win any favours from the bosses for turning up crook, nor are you doing yourself any favours if you get to the end of your career with 5,000 hours of sick leave 'banked' but poor mental health and a hundred missed birthdays and kids footy grand finals...

But we'll continue on our merry way, safe in the knowledge that ASA has things in hand, while they declare large swathes of airspace as TRA or TBIA. Yep, they're right. Nowt to see here.
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Old 15th Jan 2023, 22:57
  #660 (permalink)  
 
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There's no where near 950 operational controllers so you can ramp those numbers up a bit. You'd have to assume that a fair whack of that sick leave is from covid. This mess is 100% caused by wonder boy in Can'tberra. This mess also highlights the complete ineptitude of the politicians responsible, they are being lied to and are too stupid to bring in the expertise to sift through the lies.
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