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ATC Issues A place where pilots may enter the 'lions den' that is Air Traffic Control in complete safety and find out the answers to all those obscure topics which you always wanted to know the answer to but were afraid to ask.


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Old 29th Mar 2007, 18:35   #101 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Reading, UK
Age: 28
Posts: 48
Angel

Didn't mean any disrespect MancBoy, but you did seem to be a little unhelpful and, dare I say, unfriendly!

I look forward to the challenges that lay before me at the college and understand that my friends and I will have to work bloody hard, but there is nothing wrong with giving prospective candidates a little description as to what to expect is there? After all, I wasn't giving the answers; merely, just a little "heads up" with regards what to expect.
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Old 29th Mar 2007, 19:09   #102 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Swanwick, England
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Ricky, if that is your real name, then If you make it to Swanwick our paths may cross and you'll see how helpful and friendly I can be.

In fact, I gave one of your trainee friends a tour of Swanwick just last week!

If you respect me, my friend, then I will respect you, bearing in mind that I am the one who will be signing off your assessments should you get that far.
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Old 29th Mar 2007, 19:27   #103 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: LACC
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"On my final stage, one of the other interviewees [who is an ATSA], said that the HR guy at his stage 2 told him this.
Specifically the last of the 3 tests, which is like a 1980 Amstrad ATC game- was there in a kinda testing phase to identify any positive correlation towards the success at college."

In fact it is beyond that phase as it has already been proved to have no relevance to validation rates as I understand it and does indeed not 'count' on the day.

Ricky:
I can indeed concur that MancBoy is a particular helpful bod and to add to what he said, having everything provided on a plate might help you get so far, but it will be a false security as things don't get put on a plate once at a unit. It's in the companies interest and definitely your own that if you don't have what it takes that you get weeded out now. It will only prolong the heartache and credit card bill if it happens further down the line.
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Old 29th Mar 2007, 19:45   #104 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Quote:
In fact it is beyond that phase as it has already been proved to have no relevance to validation rates as I understand it and does indeed not 'count' on the day.
Then why still do it? Other than to induce stress in poor applicants just before they go and do an HR interview
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Old 29th Mar 2007, 19:49   #105 (permalink)
 
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intherealworld, do I know you?

Thanks for the kind words.
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Old 29th Mar 2007, 20:33   #106 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
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timelapse; because in true NATS fashion it's too expensive to redesign it. It's prob best you learn to cope with the stress now. Many oral boards to follow if you get through!
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Old 29th Mar 2007, 20:39   #107 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Ah so when they're forced to replace those aging laptops, they can change it then..

Pretty sure it said ©SHL 1992 on the startup screen
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Old 29th Mar 2007, 21:54   #108 (permalink)
 
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Location: Reading, UK
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EGMC, I apparently do not possess the same charm and charisma as you then!
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Old 30th Mar 2007, 20:06   #109 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Gibraltar
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1992!!! That is soooooooooo modern we have a computer system at work that I think is from before I was even born (I was born in 1979 BTW) it does what it has to do even though it seems to do it all in slow time though and is highly annoying when it plays up.
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Old 2nd Apr 2007, 16:31   #110 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: london
Posts: 10
Stage one of application process

Hi there,

I have been accepted to go and attend the first stage of the application process.

Can anyone tell me what the tests are like on stage one...especially regarding the maths.Basically what im asking is whether its really hard?
My maths is not poor but it is not super super good either.
Are the SHL tests a good representation of what the tests are actually like?

Is it worth me purchasing one of those physcometric testing books to practice with?

Do they go into alot of detail on the motivation paper?

Any advice i would really appreciate.

Thankyou.
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Old 2nd Apr 2007, 16:48   #111 (permalink)
 
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http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=265195
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Old 2nd Apr 2007, 16:53   #112 (permalink)

 
Join Date: Dec 1999
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gastra,

Please don't think I'm being flippant with my answers, but please think about what I say.....

Quote:
especially regarding the maths.Basically what im asking is whether its really hard?
If I said it was easy, would you not practice? They might have been easy for me, but then I might be stunning at maths

Quote:
Is it worth me purchasing one of those physcometric testing books to practice with?
You're asking whether it is worth you practicing for a selection process for a job you're applying for?

Quote:
Do they go into alot of detail on the motivation paper?
I think you should have been told already that the majority of the motivation paper is based on the .pdf document you should have been given. If you read through the document, that's the level of detail of the questions. If you learn the document, then you'll know all the answers. It's that simple. And good practice for when you're at a unit as a trainee and have to learn a fancy document call the Manual of Air Traffic Services Part Two, which might have hundreds of pages.

I know (I hope) I'm probably off the mark here, but the tone of your post seems like you're not too fussed if you get in or not.
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Old 2nd Apr 2007, 20:11   #113 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: South
Posts: 7
I did the stage two tests last week and was wondering what sort of time people have had the results in, as I havent yet.

Any ideas? (getting worried now)

Thanks
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Old 2nd Apr 2007, 20:16   #114 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: london
Posts: 10
Hi there Gonzo,

Well that was not very helpful and yes you are way off the mark.

Just wanted some advice.

I am quite prepard to study VERY hard and i just wanted some information.
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Old 2nd Apr 2007, 23:10   #115 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: EGMC
Posts: 48
Allo Gastra,

Firstly, the thread sandwiched 'tween yours n Gonzo's is a real useful one... just make sure you donít click it again on your way to the end. Doh!

I mistakenly thought that the zeroth stage [application] was a thing I needed to work at... & take time over. It's just to filter those that meet requirements... Thatís all [Oh, they will prob use it to reference Q's in third stage too]... But they don't count it as a 'stage', so you shouldnít either!

...NOW the stages begin!

"...especially regarding the maths"
- depends if you have a degree in it, or you have avoided each other like an ex-girlfriend!



"Are the SHL tests a good representation..."
IMO NO, but if you can do the online SHL Q's you can do the NATS ones, the real bitch is the cube/nets... There are some aspects of the assessment that you can only do nout about!

"...purchasing one of those physcometric testing books..."
-No!..'Purchase', whadya mean PURCHASE!?- you cant afford to purchase things, go to good ol' library!... where you can also find other ATC intro booooks [if you're interested]

"...detail on the motivation paper?"
-It's not really testing ATC knowledge. the aim as i understand it is to test how well you can learn.... so they give you summat that is sposed to be NEW to your brain and then test you on it. [it could have been based on anything, obviously there is a good advantage in making it an ATC intro booklet]

If you have SPECIFIC Q's I'm sure people would be more directly helpful, if not get me on the PM!

CLOWN FISH:

Stage 2
3 days!... [drove home from CTC on a Friday PM, and got an email on Monday AM]

Stage 3
4days!... [Tube home on Wednesday PM, email on Sunday AM]

Last edited by EGMC; 2nd Apr 2007 at 23:17. Reason: requirements, not requirments
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Old 3rd Apr 2007, 02:23   #116 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: london
Posts: 10
Hi EGMC,

Thanks for your advice...very helpful.

In fact the link is very helpful also...

Cheers
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Old 5th Apr 2007, 22:51   #117 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Higher Voltage
Posts: 7
speedbird1t

they should give you a pencil and an eraser for the cube test. Some of the people at my testing day drew the cubes on the eraser to work it out. However, it may slow you down and is dependant on you getting the pattern right. I found the easiest method is just to answer all the tests without relying on any tricks. Looking back though, had I known what was going to be in them I probably would have practised them a few times beforehand. Like IQ tests you tend to get better the more times you do them. Also, rather than 'getting passed' the tests you may develop some of the skills/mental dexterity they require.

Hope this helps
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Old 5th Apr 2007, 23:49   #118 (permalink)
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: 1nm from EPWA
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Snoop

Hello all,

Iíve been following this forum for a while now, and finally had a chance to apply for ATC training in Poland. The recruitment drive was halted for some time, during which the local NATS-like agency went through a major structural change and is now known as Polish Air Navigation Services Agency (PANSA). Now that allís back to normal, I decided to take a plunge and sent in an application, though Iím well established in my other, non-aviation career. Passion or stupidity Ė you decide .

Anyhow, the recruitment process has changed a bit it seems, and I will try to share it with you as I go along. From what Iíve seen so far, the process in Poland is as follows:
  • On-line form with basic bio info, strengths/weaknesses, three situation descriptions that prove youíre fit for an ATC job and a problem solving ďwhat would you doĒ exercise with three situation to choose from (Youíre set for a meeting with a VIP and he doesnít show up, Youíve got a deadline and canít make the schedule, Youíve got a coach ticket, but your seat is taken). The last exercise has to be filed in English.
  • English test
  • Multi-stage ATC qualification test (no info on what they include)
  • Interview
  • Medical
If you pass that, youíre hired as an intern-in-training, working from 7.30 to 15.30 for a period of six months, after which youíll get the final decision. No word on pay. So Iím waiting for a call now Ė maybe that dream of working on EPWA TWR is not that far off .
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Old 6th Apr 2007, 05:31   #119 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 29
dangerdanger
Thanks for your reply. I passed stage 1 last month and must admit I didn't find the cubes too bad in the end. I identified most of the correct answers without redrawing them. The spare paper can be used however you wish.
BAW1T
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Old 8th Apr 2007, 21:32   #120 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 9
Hi guys,
Can anybody recommend a website or a book which will allow me to practice cube tests/spatial awareness? Have done the practice tests on SHL, which were fine but they only offer Numerical/Verbal reasoning, and by the sound of it, this is not what the 1st stage requires.
Thanks
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