OFFICER and AIRCREW 'CANDIDATES' PLEASE READ THIS THREAD FIRST!

[PPRuNe Pop]

This a new thread. Enjoy!

[OASC]

User name ‘OASC’ is a new member to the PPRuNe forum website. It represents the Officer and Aircrew Selection Centre (OASC) and will provide official comment from the RAF about officers and aircrew selection. The OASC has decided to become a member of this forum site because we want to give users, who are interested in a career in the RAF, clear and accurate information in response to general questions that regularly arise. We will monitor this ‘sticky’ to get a flavour of the issues that people have about the OASC selection process and related issues. We will then collate the themes and publish generic statements on a periodic basis, which should give users clear guidance. Obviously, we won’t be able to respond to all issues straight away but, over time, the ‘sticky’ will accumulate a significant amount of valuable information. However, it should be noted that policy does change from time to time and therefore information submitted will be correct at the time of submission – but we will update it when appropriate to do so; moreover, the information provided is for guidance only. Although we are eager to generate clear and accurate advice on a general basis, we will not engage with individuals on personal issues; we recommend that any such matters be taken up directly with the nearest Armed Forces Careers Office (AFCO). We hope that this initiative will be useful and informative.

[Romeo Kilo]

It has been said that an attribute of a leader in the Royal Air Force is the ability to "handle ambiguity". Ironically, this statement in itself seems a little ambiguous. My questions are:

1) What sort of situations involve this ambiguity?
2) Are there any examples?
3) What does this mean from the point of view of OASC candidates, IOT Off Cdts, and junior officers within the Royal Air Force.
4) Why is this attribute so important.

Thanks for any help...

RK

[Pontius Navigator]

It has been said that an attribute of a leader in the Royal Air Force is the ability to "handle ambiguity". Ironically, this statement in itself seems a little ambiguous. My questions are:

1) What sort of situations involve this ambiguity?

Any situation that involves choice.

2) Are there any examples?

Do you take action A which might ensure minimum risk to your own forces or action B that might minimise risk of collateral casualties but pose a higher risk to own forces. The ambiguity may arise from your orders to minimise risk to own forces whereas international law imposes a duty to avoid causing unnecessary civilian casualties.

3) What does this mean from the point of view of OASC candidates, IOT Off Cdts, and junior officers within the Royal Air Force.

One step at a time. At OASC you may be given a situation and directed to form a plan. Your plan must address all the criteria given but the criteria may include ambiguities. It is for you to identify these and make your assessment of the best course of action. There may well be no correct solution or several possible solutions.

4) Why is this attribute so important.

It will and enable you to issue unambiguous orders so that your intentions are carried out accuratly and keep you legal.

[Braddersb]

Does the selection process for RAF sixth form scholarship still involve the 3 days at OASC. The 2007 forms about it on the website say that candidates do, however I've heard that for the last couple of years, the OASC stage doesn't happen any more. Could you tell me if it still goes on? Thanks

[risk is adventure]

Dear OASC

I am currently in the recruitment process for WSOp, hopefully crewman, (presentation in May). I am really excited at the opportunity to join the RAF. However I have noticed a few forum posts over various military sites that RAF has stopped recruiting WSOp until maybe January 2011. My careers office did not mention anything on time of application.

Is this true or is it dependant on individual applicants. For example if RAF think you are not suitable then they advise that the branch is closed for applications, but remain open to successful candidates?

Any official comment on this would be great. Also if you could comment on eyesight requirements for WSOp that would be great too.

Thankyou

Chris

[OneFifty]

Risk_Is_Adventure

The Weekly Recruitment Brief number 05/10, dated 12 Feb 10, sent out to all AFCO's, states that all WSOp applications, unless they had been handed off to OASC, are to be discontinued. The WSOp branch will remain closed 'for the foreseeable future'. Applicants are to be advised of other branches that are currently open (ATC being mentioned), otherwise they are to be directed back to register with Call Credit (The 0845 number) to register their interest for WSOp and to expect a very long wait.

[JaymieClifford]

The Weekly Recruitment Brief number 05/10, dated 12 Feb 10, sent out to all AFCO's, states that all WSOp applications, unless they had been handed off to OASC, are to be discontinued. The WSOp branch will remain closed 'for the foreseeable future'. Applicants are to be advised of other branches that are currently open (ATC being mentioned), otherwise they are to be directed back to register with Call Credit (The 0845 number) to register their interest for WSOp and to expect a very long wait.
I just enquired about joining as WSOp.

Got told that, and was told to expect an email when the position is recruited again.

Any idea how long that might be? The chap on the phone told me 'Shouldn't be to long, this is a position we usually recruit year-round. So this is being done so current applicants can be dealt with'. Any further details abotu how long anyone?

Was probably the biggest phone call of my life and I am dissapointed at the wait.

Any help is genuinly apprieciated,
Jaymie Clifford.

[OneFifty]

As the brief said, it will be closed for the foreseeable future but there is HOPE that it MAY re-open sometime around May/June 2010. (There are 168 applicants in the system handed over to OASC at the minute with currently only 20 slots available). Once you register with the Careers Line, you will get application forms E-mailed to you but only when the branch becomes available again.

[Couzins52]

Hi guys, would just like to ask a few questions concerning joining as aircrew. I have 5 gcses all at B grades (includes English and maths) Im currently studing physics, geography and psychology as levels. I'm really not enjoying college. Should I carry on and get the a levels or drop out and join up?

1. What is the timescale of the application process

2. What are good tips for during the application process?

Thanks guys

[Pontius Navigator]

joining as aircrew.

5 gcses all at B grades (includes English and maths)

currently studing . . .

I think I know what you want us to say. Well part of the answer already lies in the messages immediately above this one.

If you read the other closed thread that will probably answer the rest of your questions.

Just one final question for you. How does 'drop out' demonstrate perseverance and academic ability?

[OneFifty]

It is slightly concerning the amount of people wishing to be told what they should do. The only person that can decide which is the best course of action for them is themselves! No one here will tell you that you should leave uni or stay at uni or anything else. Only YOU can make that decision.

However, out of the thousands of applications for pilot received at the AFCOs, only a few will actually get there. Are those odds worth dumping your degree for? If you are doing an engineering degree, have you considered Engineering Officer? Have you trawled through the information on the previous, now closed thread? Have you spoken to anyone at an AFCO to determine whether you are eligible to make an application to the RAF in the first place? That may make your decision for you!

[airborne_artist]

I have problems with the University LifeAll the Services are looking for people who can make the best of the situation they find themselves in - if you are having problems "with the university life" is it likely you'll find something big to whinge about when you are in a blue suit?

My advice - man up, get the degree and apply to the RAF in your third year. Leaving now, with the high probability of not getting past OASC will leave you up the proverbial watercourse with no means of propulsion.

[Pontius Navigator]

I have problems with the University Life,

Interesting statement. What form do these problems take? What makes you certain that these problems will not occur in a military environment?

The essence of a military career is variety and many times being made to do things and act in a way, that given a free choice, that you would never do as a civilian.

If I was interviewing someone that had dropped out of whatever I would need to be convinced that it was for the right reasons.

[airborne_artist]

PN - Snap!

[risk is adventure]

I would say uni life is way easier than military life. So if your having problems with uni life then..........????

[airborne_artist]

then think about doing a degree through Military OUni

Which is probably a lot harder than doing a degree at university with no other pressures. Don't forget that graduates get three years seniority on joining, so they are paid £28,000 pa from the day they join.

[Mr C Hinecap]

anom - I joined without a degree. My advice to you - get a degree before you join. Do it when you are supposed to and not when you think you'll have time. You won't.

[Aerouk]

Get your education out of the way first mate, it's easier when you're younger. I've got 4months left of my degree then I'm going to march into the AFCO and get things rolling.

I've hated University but I'm so glad I've finished it, I've done a lot of great things. I don't think University is hard, it's the motivation which is the hard part.

[Pontius Navigator]

Aerouk, good advice but one for you. Don't wait for 4 months and join the herd. Go now.

[OneFifty]

Agree with PN. With only 4 months to go, it is a good idea to start the ball rolling now. Off to the AFCO! By the left.....

[Aerouk]

I went to the AFCO last year and they pretty much told me not to bother until I had finished my degree, although it wasn't an officer that told me that.

I'm trying to get my fitness levels and maths skills up, I've been using a calculator for far too long! Once I feel ready I'm going to push on with the application.

[Pontius Navigator]

Aerouk, that was last year. You are now well in sight of your degree. At the time they were hardly likely to say come back 11 weeks before the end of your course.

And for everyone else too.

The same holds good for A-levels. People apply to university based on expected grades. The Services use exactly the same criteria. If you are good enough then you may get a qualified acceptance - simple.

There is a risk that you (I am talking generally) don't get the A-levels, so why would they go to the trouble of assessing you early?

Two reasons:

a. To 'capture' a good qualitity candidate before they are snapped up elsewhere.

b. To smooth out the assessment process at OASC.

[OASC]

During this submission we will address 3 areas raised in, or related to, recent posts: the Weapon System Operator (WSOp) branch, the Sixth Form Scholarship and Bursary Scheme - and the academic qualification and age limits for application to the RAF.

WSOp Branch


This option is closed for the Financial Year 11/12. However, it is important that those who aspire to join the WSOp Branch continue to register their interest with the AFCOs and thence to the CIL so that when the branch re-opens they are well placed to react and apply quickly.

Sixth Form Scholarship

The RAF Sixth Form Scholarship still exists, although the competition for this year is closed. The scheme is now administered through the AFCOs, and there is no requirement to attend the OASC.

The Defence Sixth Form College, Welbeck

Year 11 students may wish to consider RAF sponsorship through the Defence Sixth Form College (DSFC), Welbeck. The DSFC educates students from all backgrounds to achieve their ambitions to become Engineering or Logistics officers in the RAF. It is one of the top performing sixth form colleges in the country with exceptional results at A-level. The tuition is paid for by the Ministry of Defence and in addition to the state of the art facilities, leadership training opportunities are provided. To gain entry to the College, candidates will be required to attend the OASC for the standard 3-day selection process. Further details regarding the college and the scheme may be found at http://www.dsfc.ac.uk (http://www.dsfc.ac.uk/) and also at the Altitude link http://www.raf.mod.uk/altitude/educationandcareers/welbeck.cfm (http://www.raf.mod.uk/altitude/educationandcareers/welbeck.cfm) . DSFC Scholars will move on to the Defence Technical Undergraduate Scheme (DTUS) and further information for Engineering and Logistics officers may be found in the relevant job section at http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers/jobs (http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers/jobs) .

University Sponsorship

An application for university sponsorship can be considered once you have received your AS results. Each application is initially processed through the AFCO and, subject to the A2 predicted grades (or equivalent) being strong enough to support the UCAS application to a university affiliated with a University Air Squadron (UAS), candidates may be invited to attend a 3-day selection board at OASC. Remember, this is a competition and high academic standards are required.

For those applicants entering Year 13, or already at university, the start date for awards in the 2012 academic year is 1 September 2012, with a closing date for all applications of 2 December 2011; by this date, the AFCO interview and application paperwork, including an academic reference from your school or college must be complete. The UAS Bursary Scheme award is currently £6,000, but higher awards may be available for Dental Officers. More information on UAS is at http://www.raf.mod.uk/universityairsquadrons (http://www.raf.mod.uk/universityairsquadrons)

The DTUS provides a higher award for Engineers and Logisticians at participating universities. Confirmation of an award is delayed until A2 results are announced and the university place is confirmed. Further sponsorship for Medical and Dental officers is available through the Cadetship Scheme and details are available on the RAF Careers web site.

For the Financial Year 11/12, new sponsorship awards will be limited to Engineering, Logistics, Medical and Dental Branches. The number of places in a given university graduation year will be limited and competition will be fierce.

Academic Qualifications and Age Limits


For information regarding age limits and academic qualifications for the various branches on offer in the RAF, please consult the RAF Careers website http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers (http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers). Candidates need to be aware that the GCSE Maths requirement has been raised to Grade B or better for the aptitude branches (Pilot, Air Traffic Control (including Senior Non-Comissioned Officer), Aerospace Battle Manager, Intelligence and WSOp/WSOp(L). Also, the A-level criteria have been raised to a minimum of 2 A2 subjects at Grade C or above (excluding General Studies and Critical Thinking).

Please note that, although OASC will endeavour to answer generic questions that arise, we will not be engaging or commenting on individual cases. In those cases, the individual is advised to contact their nearest AFCO who will be able to deal with any queries. All information published is for information only.

Information regarding a career in the RAF can be found at http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers (http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers)

[OneFifty]

aeroUK, You've had since last year to get your fitness levels up... why have you left it until now to worry about it?! Also, you make a point that it wasn't an officer that told you to wait until you had your degree. Does that matter? The officers do exactly the same recruiting course as the corporal careers advisers. Normally, at your first call to the AFCO, it would be the corporals you would speak to as a matter of course anyway and their advice given by them is equally as valid. (And are you sure you weren’t advised to return to the AFCO TOWARDS the end of your degree, not when you had actually completed it, as that is the usual advise given and the line the advisors are given.)

[Aerouk]

OneFifty,

Thanks for your reply.

When I attended the AFCO (I'm going down the RN route) I asked her about joining as an officer, qualifications, pay etc. and she just didn't seem to know a lot of the answers so I assumed that perhaps the NCOs dealt with certain types of roles and the officers dealt with officer roles. I was able to speak to a recruitment officer by email and he answered a lot of my questions. Sadly all I got from AFCO was a brochure and told to come back once I had my degree.

Perhaps it was my fault, I was extremely nervous on the day! Dream job and all that...

In terms of my fitness levels, I attended the AFCO last November but I've been doing my fitness training for a long time. I'm currently serving with another uniformed service so need to keep fit for that, I'm just wanting to work on it over the next couple of months especially during the summer.

Kreuger flap,

I studied Law at University.

[Aerouk]

Sorry AeroUk I am a bit confused now. So you have a degree then. So why not apply now? Is the Royal Navy careers website not good enough to answer a lot of your questions?

Apologies for the confusion.

In theory, I have my degree but I'm finishing my hons year at the moment.

Are you in the TA?No, I'm not in the TA.

[airborne_artist]

I am guessing if it is not the TA it must be the RauxAF or the RNR?

Could be also the RMR of course.

You have an LL.B in Law and you are staying on for a fourth year in order to get an honours degree? Which University are you studying at?

Scottish universities only award ordinary degrees after three years. Honours degrees take four years.

Can I ask why you are not bothering to pursue a career in Law, as the benefits will be greater in the long run?

Just what are the benefits of being a lawyer? :E

FWIW the second straight-through SHAR pilot was a qualified barrister before he saw the light and joined the FAA. He went on to become a grand-fromage in the defence aviation sector.

[Aerouk]

I've never considered a career within the legal industry and never will. I didn't plan on going to University but my parents thought it was a good idea so I went for it.

The only reason I choose Law was because I didn't fancy anything else, turns out it's good when you get into arguments with your mobile phone company - they usually back down when you pretend to know what you're talking about :}

[Scotteo]

Got back from OASC a couple of weeks ago whilst applying for Pilot, but unfortunetly the only thing that let me down was my height. Everything measured up except for my sitting height (858mm when 865mm is the minimum :ugh:).

However I was deemed fit for WSO although I don't want to stick with this option if Pilot is still on the cards. My question is what are the height restrictions for Navy Pilots/Army Pilot? The person I spoke to at the medical centre said they were different from the RAF but I can't seem to find them anywhere!

Any help is much appreciated

[Aerouk]

RN:
Weight - 56.6- 96.5Kg

Functional Reach - Min 720mm

Sitting Height - 865 - 990mm

865 - 990mm

Buttock - Knee
560 - 660mm

Buttock- Heel
1000 - 1200mm

How tall are you just out of curiosity?

[airborne_artist]

You might find that you could put on 7 mm if you get really fit - and if you are not yet 20 and male you may still be growing.

[Pontius Navigator]

Anthrophomorphics is the hidden factor in aircraft design. How many of today's youth could fit in the tail turret of a Lanc or the ball turret of a B17?

Aircraft designers need to keep anthrophomorphics in the forfront of design. Women needed new flying suits and many would not fit legacy platforms or bang seat and parachute limits.

When we got the F4 (US well nourished post-war aircrew) it was supremely comfortable and spacious for UK malnourished baby boomers. How many average Brits could get in a Spitfire, or even a Canberra, today?

If you are too small, take heart, they made the aircraft bigger. If you are too big, wait for JSF :}

[anom2761]

Wouldn't the Shorter Pilot be able to sustain G Forces for Longer, as the distance from the Heart to Brain Shorter. Therefore, making G Force sustainess for the Shorter Pilot eating red meat even better with G Suits of today??

[Pontius Navigator]

Wouldn't the Shorter Pilot be able to sustain G Forces for Longer, as the distance from the Heart to Brain Shorter. Therefore, making G Force sustainess for the Shorter Pilot eating red meat even better with G Suits of today??

But if he could not reach that vital switch under high gee . . . :eek:

[vecvechookattack]

Why would you design an aircraft with the switches so far away?

[Pontius Navigator]

Why would you design an aircraft with the switches so far away?

Far away? Far away for who?

Once trained a baby nav who had to sit on one leg to give him the height to reach the switches. It was something to watch as he spent most of a flight in a semi-standing position.

[airborne_artist]

Chris MacBean (RIP) had to sit on a cushion when flying the Bulldog. Didn't stop him becoming a good Beefer* though. At the time the Dog was the limiting factor in RN aircrew max sitting height.


* Beefer = QFI in Jackspeak.

[OASC]

During this submission we would like to cover the RAF Careers Information Line and the OASC fitness test.

Individuals wishing to gain information about a career in the RAF can do so by looking at the RAF Careers website, visiting their local AFCO or calling the RAF Careers Information Line. The benefits of calling the RAF Careers Information Line are outlined below.

Also, we have seen in the previous OASC ‘sticky’ that many questions arose regarding the fitness test aspect of the OASC selection process; therefore, the current fitness test is explained in detail below.


The RAF Careers Information Line

The RAF Careers Information Line has been providing RAF careers information, on behalf of the RAF, for over ten years. It provides people, who are interested in a career in the RAF, with details about entry requirements and current vacancies. Also, it enables potential candidates to make informed choices about the entry route they would like to take and ensures that they are fully aware of the educational, residency, health, fitness and joining age requirements for entry. In addition, if an individual is interested in a particular role that currently has no vacancies then the RAF Careers Information Line will take their details and email them once a vacancy becomes available. The email will contain a link to an online application form which can then be completed and submitted; then, if the applicant is successful at the initial filter process, they will be invited to their local AFCO for a formal presentation.


Fitness Test

INFORMATION REMOVED - SEE THREAD 79 FOR LATEST FITNESS POLICY

Please note that, although OASC will endeavour to answer generic questions that arise, we will not be engaging or commenting on individual cases. In those cases, the individual is advised to contact their nearest AFCO who will be able to deal with any queries. All information published is for information only.

Information regarding a career in the RAF can be found at http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers (http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers)

[Scotteo]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I'm 163cm but it seems my torso is slightly shorter in proportion. But it does make sense, as I might not be able to see over the instrument panel in a hawk.

I'm currently 21 years old but my family are late developers and hopefully I can gain an inch or so in the next few years.

Looks like I'll continue waiting on an offer from the RAF for WSO and start practising yogo or buy one of those chinese racks to extend myself in the hope that I can re-apply when the time comes.

[Katiex89]

I am currently waiting to go away for my Flight Aptitude Test for the UK Royal Navy and was wondering if anyone can help with specifics on the tests they make you take?

I have a brief of things but cannot find anythng on the internet regarding Psychomotor testing, workrate test or mental capacity.

Can anyone help?

[scarecrow450]

psychomotor - definition of psychomotor by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia. (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/psychomotor)

relating to, or characterizing movements of the body associated with mental activity

quick search found the above !

[K.Whyjelly]

Buddy of mine needed two cushions as well as his 'chute pack in order to see over the coaming (sp?) of the Chipamoth at Wallop. Subsequently went on to be a successful QHI and later on a successful civi 'bus driver

[MPN11]

Probably changed since I did the tests in 196*, but the only thing I can say is "Stop and Think".

They certainly weren't things you could train for, or practice. They're designed to cut through all that, and simply determine whether you have: hand/eye coordination; the ability to analyse problems and think logically under pressure; organise a team; and not talk cr@p :)

I went through the system for both the RAF and the FAA - several times actually, to the point where the barman in the Candidates' Mess at Biggin Hill remembered me. I made it, eventually!

You are what you are - and I do hope, for your sake, it meets the requirements! Good luck. :ok:

BRNC 1963
OCTU 1965
Ret'd 1994

[Pontius Navigator]

Can you find your nose with your finger and your eyes shut?

I seem to remember that was one test. Might have been standing on one leg at the time :)

[airborne_artist]

It's possible that you can improve motor skills slightly by using PlayStation etc shoot'em up games. It's certain that you can improve mental maths through practice, I'd argue, particularly if you've not done any Maths for five/six years (GCSE to graduating).

Here's a handy link to the training pipeline for Royal Navy / Fleet Air Arm, RAF and Army commissioned / officer pilots / WSOs and non-commissioned RAF aircrew. RN Observers stand fast.

It's a few slides in Powerpoint - here (http://www.raf.mod.uk/no22traininggroup/rafcms/mediafiles/9C2CA119_1143_EC82_2E38786ECE6BE6FA.ppt) - read, learn and inwardly digest, and be prepared to answer questions at AIB/OASC.

[anom2761]

I've heard a rumour that the Military are considering to put the Fitness pass levels same for both Male and Female. Due to arguments over equal rights oppotunities? If so, would they opt to put the pass limits towards the Female Pass or the Male pass!? Arguements could spark off those Women, if it were put to male levels! Take Cover!:ugh:

[Aerouk]

Cheers AA! :ok:

[calumwm]

morning, I've got a few questions:
first is about a driving licence; assuming i get in as a pilot, would the RAF pay for it? I believe they only do it for driving related jobs, but its worth asking :p

and the second is about a gap (halfish)year - if I were to finish 6th form and get accepted, I'd like to go to Australia for a bit - but i remember reading somewhere that if you've been out of the country for over 6 months in the last 4 years, you no longer meet entry requirements - or is it different because it's commonwealth?
and if I was selected for direct entry after 6th form, how long would it be before it gets serious and I'd have to start proper training? I'm trying to plan my last summer of freedom before my mates go to university haha :} thanks!

[Pontius Navigator]

first is about a driving licence; assuming i get in as a pilot, would the RAF pay for it? I believe they only do it for driving related jobs,

The Army teach drivers to drive. The Air Force teaches pilot how to fly. OK?

if I was selected for direct entry after 6th form, how long would it be before it gets serious and I'd have to start proper training?

Shall we say about 6 months or more before you apply? Once you apply the gap between AFCO, OASC and IOT is a moveable feast based on supply and demand. Only if you had a really good reason would it be fair to ask for an IOT deferment.

As for gap year, not sure about your specific question but you can put a gap year to good use improving interpersonal skills, initiative, self-improvement etc or you could be a surf-bum and improve your fitness by day and ruin your health by night. Your call. Just remember that it can be a significant part of any interview process.

[muppetofthenorth]

if I was selected for direct entry after 6th form, how long would it be before it gets serious and I'd have to start proper training?

If you've been accepted to go Direct Entrant as soon as you've finished your A2s, then you could be going to IOT the second they're over.

In theory, it is possible to finish the exams on, say, Friday June 12th and be starting IOT on Sunday June 14th. In reality, I doubt that would be the case - they want to know you've definitely got the grades/entry requirements first, too. But anything more than 5-6 months is unlikely.

[OASC]

During this submission we would like to briefly cover aptitude testing as conducted here at OASC.

Aptitude Testing

When assessing a candidate’s suitability to enter the RAF’s demanding and expensive training programmes, a badly-informed selection decision could lead to high risk of failure and associated costs. Consequently, minimising training failure is our top priority, accomplished through the early identification of those high-calibre applicants who possess the key abilities and raw talent to succeed. The Royal Air Force has a long and successful history of achieving success in training through the prior use of scientific ability measurement. This measurement is called aptitude testing.

How do Aptitude tests work?

An aptitude domain encompasses a broad collection of similar aptitudes. These domains have been chosen to pinpoint behavioural characteristics recognised as critical to success in the early stages of training. Domains are assessed in terms of a stanine (ie a scale of 1-9). To successfully pass an aptitude test battery, an individual must achieve the minimum stanine level in all domains within the battery and achieve the minimum index cut-off (ie the minimum overall score). Obviously, as technology evolves and develops, so to do the way in which we test for innate aptitude skills. The working set of domains currently adopted by the Officers and Aircrew Selection Centre (OASC) at RAF Cranwell include the following areas:

Strategic Task Management (Situational Awareness)
Perception (Audio & Visual)
Short Term Memory and Capacity
Spatial Reasoning
Symbolic Reasoning (Verbal & Numeric)
Psychomotor
Central Information Processing (Attention Switching/Medium & Long-Term Memory)

Aptitude testing takes place in a purpose-built testing facility at RAF Cranwell. The 45 test stations are identical, with each computer screen adjusted to common settings of contrast, gain and colour. All candidates are given the same pre-test briefing. The degree of standardisation is such that there is a high level of confidence in the reliability of both the scores and the statistical analyses resulting from the data gathered at RAF Cranwell. As such the aptitude facility is also used by the Army, the Royal Navy, the Civil Police Service, as well as pilot candidate testing for certain civilian airlines.

How do I prepare?

Aptitude tests are designed to test an individuals innate abilities therefore no amount of preparation will change the outcome. However, our general advice would be to arrive as relaxed as possible having had a good night's sleep and make sure you have had a good breakfast as some of the aptitude batteries can take many hours to complete.

Please note that, although OASC will endeavour to answer generic questions that arise, we will not be engaging or commenting on individual cases. In those cases, the individual is advised to contact their nearest AFCO who will be able to deal with any queries. All information published is for information only.

Information regarding a career in the RAF can be found at http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers (http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers)

[Pontius Navigator]

having had a good nights sleep and make sure you have had a good breakfast

And translated this means keep off the coke and cafeine in the evening. Relax and don't get hyper. Don't disturb others who may have gone to bed earlier.

One thing to remember in all the tests - you are NOT in competition with the other candidates that day. You are in competiton with ALL the candidates who are awaiting selection now or in the future against the numbers needed.

At OASC, one of the things you will be assessed on is your 'followership' :) abilities. Are you a team player? One in a hundred may be selected as a prima donna but the majority must be competent all-round team players.

If you are tired and yawning don't expect any favours.

[ElSupremo]

I have a quick question about the age limit for both the RAF and Navy. I know that the age limit for both forces is now 25. Does this mean that a candidate has until the day before their 25th birthday or the day before their 26th birthday to apply? I ask because I'm wondering whether I could complete my lawyer training (another two years in practice required) before I applied for either force.

Many thanks.

[Mr C Hinecap]

E_S - you've been asking bone questions for a long time now - I'd expect you to have checked the RAF website first:

Every job in the RAF has a minimum and maximum age limit. These are given in each of the job files on this website.

They describe the age you need to be on your first day of training – not when you first apply. It can take several months to complete the process of joining the RAF.

[Pontius Navigator]

I have a quick question about the age limit for both the RAF and Navy. I know that the age limit for both forces is now 25. Does this mean that a candidate has until the day before their 25th birthday or the day before their 26th birthday to apply? I ask because I'm wondering whether I could complete my lawyer training (another two years in practice required) before I applied for either force.

Many thanks.

Neither.

If the limit is 25 it means 25 as your age on entering service. Can you complete your legal training? Given your age and the need for a 2-year pupilage I think you are out of time for the one or the other. You certainly ned to kick off the application within the next 6-12 months.

[ElSupremo]

Ok, I knew that the age limits are for the first day of training and I should have said so. What I'm really asking is whether on the first day of training the age limit is 24 and 364 days or 25 and 364 days?

Edit: I just had a look back at the previous post and realised that I'd already asked this question - although I didn't get a definitive answer. I suppose if no one knows the answer on here then I can pop into the local AFCO and ask.

[Furygan66]

From what I was told at the AFCO last week, for the Royal Navy, you need to be on your first day of training no later then your 26th birthday. So you are able to start on your 26th birthday, just not after it. I may be wrong, but this is what the guy at the AFCO told me, as I'll be 25.5 when I finish my degree, so need to get my apps in at the start of my third year.

As far as I am aware for the RAF it is simaler but the age is 25. So no starting after your 25th birthday.

[ElSupremo]

Thanks for the response. I think a trip to the AFCO is in order to get an accurate answer.

[Furygan66]

If you don't mind me asking. Seen as you are looking at both the RAF and RN, what aircraft is it you are wanting to fly? Or just a general "I want to be a pilot" thing?

[ElSupremo]

It's more of a 'I want to fly anything fast' so I'm not really bothered about which jet I fly. Although the thought of landing and taking off from aircraft carriers does excite me.

[OneFifty]

One difinitave answer coming up:

You have to be under 26 by the FIRST DAY OF SERVICE. Therefore, you could be age 25 and 364 days on the first day of training. A day later, and you are too old.

[OneFifty]

E_L

I hope you do realise that you won't actually get the choice of which aircraft type you'll fly. If the aptitude tests show that you are more suited to rotary, then that's where you'll be going.

[Furygan66]

Is it graded on say, High score = FJ, medium score = rotary, low = bus driver?

or more on an individual basis, separated by different category strengths?
If so what strengths are better for each one, if anyone knows?

[Pontius Navigator]

Is it graded on say, High score = FJ, medium score = rotary, low = bus driver?

or more on an individual basis, separated by different category strengths?
If so what strengths are better for each one, if anyone knows?

Furygan, low is graded agricultural, ie tractor driver.

See PM

[Jamesandpie]

I was under the impression it does not matter what your aptitude score is, that's only relevent to get in as a pilot. After this is it no longer discussed or referred to.

Your streaming is dependent on your scoring you get at EFT and is done on a 6 point scale, whereby if you attain a 6 (and some who score 5), get streamed to Linton to continue the basic fast jet training (BFJT).

[Aerouk]

ElSupremo,

I've decided to call the legal training quits after I finish my degree this year, I was offered a place on a post grad course starting in Sept. I've decided to go ahead and get the RN application started instead.

Having looked at the RN training information that AA provided along with the Navy News etc. I'm really looking forward to a long career flying in any aircraft they give me. I really don't care, as long as it's better than my current Piper 28!

[Pontius Navigator]

James, that is true but what was really meant was aptitude all the way through as you say. You are streamed based on performance. Performance is largely based on aptitude and ability.

You mght have a natural ability to fly but may have no ability to absord the lessons.

[airborne_artist]

Bear in mind that the needs of the Service will take priority despite EFT gradings. It's entirely possible that a high number of your EFT course will be hotshots - but if there are only X places for FJ you could still get streamed elsewhere despite having a high score.

Worth noting that the RN is really looking for an aptitude score of >129 for pilots, despite the pass score being 112. I'm pretty sure that no-one has got to BRNC on less than 118 in the past three years, and anything less than 125 probably won't do in most cases.

[Aerouk]

AA,

Do you know what the maximum score someone can reach? What about Observer scores?

[Furygan66]

I seem to remember seeing something that said 125 for pilot and 135 for observer.

[airborne_artist]

Anything over 150 is looking pretty hot - 170 is do-able, but don't get hung up on pure scores - the ability to learn is also key, as is the ability to multi-task in the real world (control the aircraft, communicate and navigate). I think we lost four from EFT who could only do one thing at once.

[neildo]

IIRC tests are out of 180, they are for pilot anyway. Lad on my board got 170 and got sent home after ex phase; so don't get hung up on these results it's your whole set of qualities they are after, not just ability to fly.

[ElSupremo]

Kreuger flap, check your PM.

[Aerouk]

Kreuger flap,

I'm in fourth year at the moment my parents didn't think it was a good idea for me to go straight into the military at 17 without getting a bit of an education so I went to University. It's been good fun, I've been able to study all over the world but looking forward to getting a career.

[Aerouk]

I would be wasting my time taking it further, as I said previously I have no plans to join the legal industry and wouldn't join it even if I never got into the RN.

I haven't paid a penny for my degree, it's all picked up by the govt where I stay so it's be a great experience and something I'm glad I've done.

I was offered the chance to do a part time course in Sept doing a post grad cert which I may do while I go through the RN selection process.

[OASC]

During this submission we would like to briefly cover the medical process as conducted here at OASC.

The RAF Medical Board at the Officer and Aircrew Selection Centre takes place over day 2 and 3 of the selection process. Its aim is to ensure that candidates are fit for both initial officer training and a full career as aircrew (if applicable). To this end, a rigorous and in-depth medical is performed on each candidate.

The assessment starts in the afternoon of day two of the selection process with anthropometry. The anthrometric assessment is undertaken to make sure that the candidate is neither too large nor to small for the aircraft currently on the RAF inventory. Due to the fact that potential aircrew are not selected to type at this stage, generic anthropometry measurement standards are used. Also performed during the end of day two are the hearing and eye tests. The in-depth eye test assesses near and distant vision, astigmatism, visual field and cornea mapping, colour vision testing, intraocular pressure testing, eye muscle balance testing, slit lamp assessment and stereoscopic vision testing. If the candidate has taken Roaccutane, a treatment for acne, he will also be referred for night vision testing as Roaccutane can adversely affect this.

The morning of day three of the selection process starts with a fasting blood test which, among other things, assesses liver, kidney and thyroid function, fasting blood cholesterol and fasting blood sugar levels. The candidate will also have an electrocardiogram (ECG) heart tracing and a thorough physical examination. The last stage of the medical process is the Medical Review in which the President of the Medical Board goes through the candidate’s medical history and examination with him and reaches a decision regarding his fitness for commissioning and aircrew duties(as applicable). In addition to all of the above, the candidate is given a form for his GP to complete and return called the Medical Attendance Report (MAR).

There are 3 possible outcomes of the medical boarding process:

a. Fit pending ECG, blood and MAR results. The ECG traces go away to be reported on by a RAF consultant physician and the blood results take a couple of days to come back from the laboratory. A final decision regarding fitness is not made until these 3 elements are received.

b. Temporarily unfit. The most common reason for this outcome is the need for a specialist opinion or the need to lose some weight; the maximum BMI allowable is 28 and the maximum weight 94 Kg. BMI can be calculated using the following formula:

BMI = Weight (KGs) ÷ Height (metres) 2

c. Permanently unfit. This is usually due to a history of a medical condition that prevents any further progress through the selection process.

We have deliberately not included any of the medical standards in this bulletin. This is due to the fact that the details are meaningless unless they are measured using the correct medical equipment by appropriately trained technicians and that the results are interpreted by a qualified military physician. Further information regarding health and fitness can be found at: http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers/canijoin/health.cfm

Please note that, although OASC will endeavour to answer generic questions that arise, we will not be engaging or commenting on individual cases. In those cases, the individual is advised to contact their nearest AFCO who will be able to deal with any queries. All information published is for information only.

Information regarding a career in the RAF can be found at RAF Careers home - jobs, recruitment and career opportunities in the RAF - RAF Careers (http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers)

[OASC]

During this bulletin, we would like to cover the Selection Fitness Testing procedure which took effect on 01 Apr 10.

The Selection Fitness Test

All candidates attending the OASC for selection after the 1 Apr 2010 will be required to undertake the Selection Fitness Test (SFT), which replaced the use of the Royal Air Force Fitness Test (RAFFT) for selection purposes. This change took place to enable all candidates to prepare thoroughly against known criteria.The SFT comprises a 1.5 mile run on a treadmill followed by an assessment of the maximum number of press-ups and sit-ups an individual can achieve in one minute of each exercise. Candidates who do not achieve the required standard will not be offered a place to enter training in the Royal Air Force. Therefore, it cannot be stressed enough how important it is to pass the SFT and it is strongly recommended that an individual ensures that they are capable of reaching the minimum required standards prior to attending OASC and to maintain their fitness pending entry to the Service.

Standards for Fitness Testing

The standards for all three elements of the SFT reflect what the 'average' person (by age and gender) should achieve. Amber represents the minimum level of fitness that will permit candidates entry into training. However, due to the intensity of the initial officer training course, experience has shown that even with an Amber level of fitness, cadets may still struggle with one or more aspects of the training; their lack of fitness will affect their performance in terms of physical robustness and mental stamina. Green represents the Service desired level of fitness at selection and for entry into training. Unfortunately, the site format will not allow us to submit a neat table so we have had to improvise below. PU = Press ups, SU = Sit ups

Male 1.5 Mile Run entry standard

Age...Run (PU SU) Run (PU SU)
17-29 11.11 (20 35) 10.12 (40 41)
30-34 11.36 (19 32) 10.32 (37 38)
35-39 12.00 (18 29) 10.55 (34 35)
40-44 12.26 (17 26) 11.11 (31 32)
45-49 12.54 (16 23) 11.40 (28 29)
50-54 13.27 (15 20) 12.04 (25 26)

Female 1.5 Mile Run entry standard

Age..Run (PU SU) Run (PU SU)
17-29 13.23 (10 32) 12.08 (20 38)
30-34 13.47 ( 9 29 ) 12.33 (19 35)
35-39 14.13 ( 8 26 ) 13.05 (18 32)
40-44 14.48 ( 7 23 ) 13.35 (16 29)
45-49 15.19 ( 6 20 ) 14.18 (14 26)
50-54 15.53 ( 5 17 ) 14.56 (12 23)

The 1.5 Mile Run in more detail

The 1.5 Mile run involves running on a treadmill at zero inclination in the shortest time possible. The candidate will control all settings on the running machine and will have been made aware of how distance and pace are displayed on the running machine during the brief. It will be the candidate's responsibility to adjust the pace of the machine in order to achieve the required standard. It is, therefore, incumbent on the candidate to push themselves to complete the test in the quickest time. The run will commence on a signal from the PTI who will offer verbal reminders of time elapsed, pace and target times.

Please note that, although OASC will endeavour to answer generic questions that arise, we will not be engaging or commenting on individual cases. In those cases, the individual is advised to contact their nearest AFCO who will be able to deal with any queries. All information published is for information only.

Information regarding a career in the RAF can be found at http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers (http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers)

[NDW]

Evening all,

I'm currently studying for my A levels, but I was looking at studying another course.
There's a Mechanical Engineering course which would involve studying aerospace systems, biomedicine, and other mechanics, but also Maths and Physics would be involved at A level grade.

Obviously it wouldn't be the same as A levels but would it qualify for a WSOp trade.

So what do you guys think? Would it be worth while.

An mechanical engineering course has always interested me so would it be worth it?

Thanks

[Pontius Navigator]

looking at studying . . . a Mechanical Engineering course . . . involving aerospace systems, biomedicine, and other mechanics

Interesting

but also Maths and Physics would be involved at A level grade.

Obviously it wouldn't be the same as A levels

It is or it isn't. What exactly does it give you?

would it qualify for a WSOp trade.

Simple really. What does WSOp require? What does your non-A-level course give? Which is more stringent?

So what do you guys think? Would it be worth while. ask the professionals. Go to the AFCO. Say your are doing XYZ; will that meet the criteria for ABC?

mechanical engineering course has always interested me so would it be worth it?

So why do you want to be aircrew, possibly kicking troops in and out of the aircraft when a job as an engineer would get you oil on your hand? [hint - interview question]

[Aerouk]

Evening all,

I'm currently studying for my A levels, but I was looking at studying another course.
There's a Mechanical Engineering course which would involve studying aerospace systems, biomedicine, and other mechanics, but also Maths and Physics would be involved at A level grade.

Obviously it wouldn't be the same as A levels but would it qualify for a WSOp trade.

So what do you guys think? Would it be worth while.

An mechanical engineering course has always interested me so would it be worth it?

Thanks I'm getting slightly concerned with these new courses that promise you qualifications that are like A-Levels but aren't actually A-Levels.

If you are looking to do a course that is the same level as A-Level, why not just do the A-Level course? It prevents you from having to explain what the qualification is to a confused recruiter whose getting lost with all of these new super-duper qualifications.

Get your A-Levels in decent subjects (i.e. Physics, Maths, English etc.) and then if you really fancy doing a Mechanical Engineering course why not go to College or University to study an HNC/HND/Degree in the subject that way you have universally accepted qualifications?

[Pontius Navigator]

Good advice Aerouk, the rules and regs always take time to catch up with new fangled ideas. Not only that, but do your HNC/HND or whatever after you enlist and the Services pay a chunk of the costs. In addition, once you gain that qualification you may also get an advancement in your pay scale.

[NDW]

P_N & AeroUK, thanks for the responses.

I have spoken to my college, and they will allow me to take the Engineering Course along with two A levels.

This for me is brilliant, because I am more of a hands on (practical) type of person.

The Engineering Course focuses mainly on Aerospace / Aeronautical Engineering, and it is worth about 2 AS levels.

[Aerouk]

NDW,

What qualification is the Engineering course though?

[guitarwillie]

Hi all!

I recently applied to the Royal Navy for Pilot and Observer. I have completed my RT, medical , pjft and sift interview and am therefore awaiting FATs. At my medical I had a really bad cold, and got H2 hearing, which the doctor was pretty certain was because of my cold, i was passed as medically fit so this will be retested at my aircrew medical. I am aware that H1 is required for Pilot and Observer, but what about RAF WSOp? Whilst it isn't a commisioned position like I wanted, if it turned out that I couldnt be a pilot/observer in the RAF or FAA, I would defiantly look into it. So do I need to have H1 for any of the WSOp positions? Also is there a possibilty of commissioning as a WSOp later in my career?

Thanks in advance,

Will

[guitarwillie]

Thats brilliant thanks! Sorry about the spelling, I must have missed it out when I read through it. Anyone got any information on the hearing standards? I've tried using Google, but no luck so far!

Cheers

Will

[Pontius Navigator]

On the hearing test you are put into a sound booth and wear a headset. Tones are then played in each ear in turn, at different pitch and reducing amplitude. I think those are the right terms.

It starts easily and you confidently press a button when you hear the tone. As it gets harder you then start to imagine the sound and start to press the button almost in desparation. You may imagine that the repetition interval is uniform and press the button when you think you hear a sound.

Mistakes and cheating do not work. The test is actually repeated and they look for consistency not an absolute. When your job does not depend on it and you are permitted to see as well as hear you would be astonished how accurate it is.

One last point. While the booth is soundproof it is necessarily air tight too. So remember the person following you and no beans for breakfast :E

[CaptainKing]

Hi there,


I'm a 16 years old working towards my solo for fixed wing. I'm an A student, I play U16A water polo and rugby. I am keen to join the RAF in about 2 and a half years time. I am a British and European national. I live in South Africa with my parents who are British citizens.


I just wanted to ask a few questions regarding the RAF airwing:


1)Do you do basic training, if so how long is it?


2)How long is it until you begin flying?


3)Do you do an officer's course before or after flight training?


4)How many hours do you do before receiving your wings?


5)After flight training what are the options regarding the different aircraft you can fly ie: helicopters, cargo, jets, etc...


Any other information would be great!


Thanks!


Damian King

[Green Flash]

Damian

Go back to the Pprune Mil Aircrew homepage and look at the second thread.

Look also at the RAF interweb site.

[CaptainKing]

Thanks for pointing me in a direction. But please any further help would be much appreciated. What I looked at of the other thread it didn't seem to be answering the questions I want to know.

Thanks anyway, and once again any further information much appreciated.

[airborne_artist]

Right now your biggest problem about joining the RAF could be your residency. You are normally required to have lived in the UK for five consecutive years immediately before applying. See link
(http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers/sendmeinfo/overseas.cfm)
The rest of your Qs are easily answered by reading the RAF's careers web pages, and looking at the old and new OASC threads.

[Talk Reaction]

I never knew residency was an issue for applicants with British Citizenship, seems largely irrelevant and inflexible, ah I've answered my own question!

Another problem is that we are likely to be still in the midst of a big shrink over the next 2-3 years, so give some serious thought to University which could help with some residency and gives you plenty of time to answer all of those questions ;)

Good luck Damian

[vecvechookattack]

If you are an A student then the UK Armed Forces won't take you until you have completed your education to its highest level.....Unless you insist. If you pitch up with 10 GCSE's (Or equivalent) they will turn you away to sit your A Levels (or equivalent) and likewise...if you pitch up with 3 good A levels they will tell you to come back after Uni.

Talk reaction is correct.... now is not a good time to join.... go and get a degree and join then.

I think the residency issue is only if you are not British.

[airborne_artist]

From this page Nationality and residency - RAF Careers (http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers/canijoin/nationalityandresidency.cfm)

"Nationality

The nationality requirements for each job are given in each of the job files on this website.
To apply for any RAF job, you must be a citizen of the UK or the Republic of Ireland, or have been a Commonwealth citizen since birth, or hold dual UK/other nationality.
For security reasons, there are stricter nationality requirements for some jobs. For a few, you must have been a UK citizen and UK resident since birth.

Residency

You must have lived in the UK for the five years immediately before you apply to join. For a few jobs, the qualifying period is 10 years."

Given that the RAF has plenty of UK residents applying, I'd have to wonder whether they'd bother for long with someone who does not meet the residency rules.

[vecvechookattack]

The residency issue must be for non-nationals. Otherwise it wouldn't make sense.

Which is why Australians, Kiwis and the like can join. Therefore as a South African you can walk straight in.... Just get a degree first.

[OneFifty]

vecvechookattack, if you turned up at the AFCO with 10 GCSE's and wished to apply for pilot, you would be told to go and do your A levels in order to fulfil the minimum requirement for making a P2 application. The AFCO would NOT tell you to go and do uni of you turned up with the required qualifications. (Unless you wanted EngO or other professional branch of course). If you are half way through a degree, we may ADVISE you finish it, but we would never TELL you to do something that wasn't required for entry. We tell potential applicants what their options are, it is always entirely up to them which path they choose. As far as being the right time, of course pilot is very competitive, but always has been and always will. What I can say for certain is that applications are being taking for pilot and if the candidate displays the correct attributes at OASC, then they wouldn’t have a problem.

As was previously mentioned, as an overseas applicant, you WOULD have had to have spent the last 5 years living in the UK in order to apply. The only exception to this rule (currently) is students taking a gap year. It has been made quite clear to AFCO’s that no other circumstances will be accepted.

[vecvechookattack]

Yes you are right. The RAF wouldn't encourage him to get a degree.

As a South African though, he shouldn't have any problems getting in.

[OneFifty]

The AFCO wouldn't NOT say "You are qualified to make an application but you need to go away and get a degree". We would say "You fulfil the requirement to make your application, this is what you do next..." You DO NOT NEED a degree in order to make an application for pilot, therefore why would we turn a suitably qualified potential applicant away?

With regard to residency, we could not accept a Briish Citizen living in South Africa as he does not fulfil the residency requirements. He needs to have spent the 5 years prior to making his application living in the UK. As previously mentioned, the only exception to this rile (currently) are students taking gap years. This was clearly stated in a recent Weekly Recruitment Brief which are issued to AFCO's detailing the latest policy changes and the like.

I personally dealt with a case of a potential applicant who was a British citizen but decided to live in Australia for 2 years after doing his A levels. As this was not a gap year, he was ineligible to submit an application under the current regulations.

[L J R]

Which is why Australians, Kiwis and the like can join.

....They join as Lateral Recruits - who already have skill and Qual when they are in short supply. There are restrictions on jobs that they can be recruited to do.

[N Joe]

Damian

Always keen to see young polo players, so if you do join up, make sure you contact us. Details at:

RAF Swimming Association - Water Polo (http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafswimming/teamsanddisciplines/waterpolo.cfm)

N Joe

[Herod]

Seems a bit hard, the residency requirement. My parents emigrated to Oz when I was five, and we returned when I was seventeen. The only thing I ever wanted to be was a pilot in the RAF. I applied as soon as I could, was accepted, and enjoyed a career. According to the rules, I wouldn't be allowed to do that now. Sad.

[vecvechookattack]

Its all to do with the rights and privileges of being a commonwealth citizen. If you are a citizen of the commonwealth then you have the right for a free visa in commonwealth countries, you have the right to work and of course you have the right to enlist in the British Armed Forces providing you meet the criteria. In some countries you also have the right to vote.

[FFP]

I'm also surprised that there isn't some sort of allowance for any Crown servant parents serving overseas ? Surely if I'm abroad in an official capacity working for HM, my kids would be able to apply to join HM Forces, even if they hadn't been in the UK for a couple of years ?

BTW, just did the Personality test on the RAF Careers (apparently I have one...a personality, that is....not a career....;) )

Says I should be a Flight Ops Assistant......

[OneFifty]

vecvechookattack, I have no idea why you wont accept the RAF policy on recruiting but it is there in black and white. They are the regulations we follow at the AFCO as stated by Gp Capt Recruiting.

FFP, if under 18 and abroad with parents, the rules are different. If with you on an overseas assignment, they would of course be able to apply.

[FFP]

That figures. Cheers for the confirmation.

[ladybird380]

Hi all,

I was wondering if there is anybody with professional flying qualifications have applied or is applying to the RAF non-pilot jobs? (non-pilot, because of age or eye sight limitations)

Thanks

LB

[Tourist]

"I have no idea why you wont accept the RAF policy on recruiting but it is there in black and white."

Just so you know, I didn't meet the residency criteria, but got accepted by both RAF and RN.
As with everything, the people who make the rules can waive them.

[Sand4Gold]

I'm Spartacus! I had spent 17yrs in southern africa before coming to London and walking into an AFCO - 3/4 months of security checks and I was in.

Damian, when ready, get yourself to the UK and take it from there. Regulations are for the guidance of fools - British citizenship requirement aside, market forces, and the calibre of the person applying, will dictate whether or not an individual is successful in joining the RAF.

A great career, good luck.

S4G

[Whenurhappy]

After almost 20 years of being in the RAF (having joined from a Commonwealth country) I still occasionally encounter 'nationality' issues, in spite of having a British passport. It's generally to do with access to particular information, again irrespective of having the appropriate clearances and the requirement to access that information, and the immutable fact I was born 'Abroad'.

However, Captain King Damian, follow Sand4Gold's advice and don't take no for an answer from the Careers Office. Get yourself over here and show grit and determination - as well as an oustanding aptitude to do the job. There are other routes (such as joining the British army for a few years) that would soak up this requirement - just make sure that you have plenty of head-room to apply before you get too old.

Good luck

WP

[CaptainKing]

Thanks guys,

One thing about the residency, we know of someone who lives in South Africa, and is a British national. She went over and applyed fror the RAF, either last year or early this year, and her application was accepted. She had been flying in SA with 43 Air School.

Can anyone account for this?

Also if some of my other questions could be answered it would be much appreciated.

Thanks a lot!

[muppetofthenorth]

We won't do your research for you. If you want to get in as a pilot, you're going to need to know all that information and more to make it through selection.

Go to the RAF Careers website, go to thestudentroom.co.uk and use google, you will easily find all the answers. But it's your job to do that, not ours.

[MrWomble]

The 5 years is mainly to make the SC process easier, I've heard of it being waived if you can easily get previous nation police reports, however anything that makes the process more complicated isn't going to help you when the rest of the country are currently applying.

[OneFifty]

Mr Womble is correct, waivers have been granted in the past. However, in these times of reduced recruitment and budgets, waivers are EXTREMELY difficult to gain at the moment. I am not saying that is will forever remain the case, but at the moment, no waivers are being granted. The AFCO's have been specifically told as much.

[Union Jack]

I just wanted to ask a few questions regarding the RAF airwing::confused:

Me too!

Jack

PS Go for it CaptainKing - and don't forget the Royal Navy "airwing":ok:

[ElSupremo]

Hi everybody, I have a question about a question that might get asked in interviews. The question might be: "Your mission is to bomb an enemy target (e.g. a bridge, factory etc) and you are told that civilian casualties are possible. How would you respond to this? Would you feel guilty about accidently killing civilians? Could you live with yourself if such an event arises?".

What would be the best way to go about answering such a question? If I was being completely honest I probably would feel guilty (I am human after all). Would saying such a thing be bad?

How do real fighter pilots deal with such issues?

[muppetofthenorth]

Q: "What would be the best way to go about answering such a question?"

A: The only way that matters: honestly.

:ok:

[Not rocket science!]

[Ray Dahvectac]

How do real fighter pilots deal with such issues?

Fighter pilots don't drop bombs.

[OneFifty]

I'm just trying to save you an expensive trip. I am an RAF Recruiter it is someone like me you will be talking to upon walking into the Careers Office. You WILL need to have spent 5 years in the UK prior to making an application.

[CleartoFire]

El Supremo,

The question of how you feel about killling people, civilian and otherwise, is fundamental to your application to the military. You are joining an armed force whose role is to find, fix and kill the enemy to achieve the political aims of the government. Therefore you should have thought long and hard about your feelings about this and come to some expression of justification/rationalisation of taking life.

After such consideration, when the question comes up you should be able to give a measured, considered and above all honest answer. The military do not want sociopaths blind with blood lust, nor would conscientious objectors likely to get very far through the interview process but in the end the individual must be able to press the trigger when required.

Of course to actually get as far as being asked this question you do have to actually walk in to an AFCO and make an application.........;)

[Aerouk]

I think this video pretty much answers El Supremo's answer:

Ministry of Defence | Video | VIDEO: RAF pilot spares Taliban commander to save civilians (http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/Video/VideoRafPilotSparesTalibanCommanderToSaveCivilians.htm)

At the end of the day, hearts and minds are still a huge part of Afghanistan and any other war.

[Sand4Gold]

Mukiwa aka Damian,

This was clearly stated in a recent Weekly Recruitment Brief which are issued to AFCO's detailing the latest policy changes and the like.


OneFifty and, more importantly, Group Captain Recruiting do not know what the RAF's recruiting policy will be in 2.5 years time. Dig in - study hard; learn more about the UK's Armed Forces, the UK's political system, the EU, NATO, past and present conflicts involving UK Forces - get used to reading the Daily Telegraph/Times/RAF News off the Internet. As Whenurhappy stated, don't take no for an answer....

OneFifty, give the kid a break, as a potential aviator he already scores high on Foresight - he's asking questions, not buying an airline ticket.

S4G

[OASC]

During this bulletin, we would like to make a brief statement about substance misuse and the criminal conviction policy in the RAF.

Some of the subjects posted so far are fairly dry but nonetheless form essential reading and base knowledge to aid progression through the selection process. During the next few bulletins, we will start to look at the selection process from start to finish from the view point of an imaginary individual applying for pilot.

Substance Misuse

Substance misuse is a general term that covers the misuse of drugs, solvents and anabolic steroids. The short, medium and long-term effects of substance misuse can have a damaging impact on an individual’s mental and physical fitness and health, even when the misuse has ceased. Consequently, it constitutes a direct threat both to the operational effectiveness of the Armed Forces and to the security and safety of Service personnel and, potentially, the civilians they protect. Misuse of drugs by Service personnel also damages the reputation and standing of the Armed Forces. For these reasons the misuse of drugs, solvents and anabolic steroids is not tolerated within the Armed Forces and personnel caught misusing these substances whilst in the RAF will be discharged. The Armed Forces recognize, however, that drug, solvent and steroid misuse is increasingly common in civilian life, particularly among the young, and that individuals may have misused drugs in the past. Criminal convictions for trafficking or supply of any class of drug will remain a bar to entry to the Services. However, disclosure of drug misuse will not necessarily debar a candidate from entry to the Service; acceptance or rejection will depend on the circumstances of the substance misuse and the candidate’s attitude towards the RAF’s policy. Evidence of the attitude will be obtained, in part, by the frequency of the use and the class and type of drug, solvent or steroid that has been misused.

Convictions

All applicants for service in the RAF will be required to declare previous convictions, in line with the guidance contained within the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974. This Act limits the declaration at the application stage to ‘unspent’ convictions except for those applicants for service in the ‘conviction-free’ Branches/Trades who must declare all previous convictions, spent or unspent. In addition, all candidates must declare unspent Anti-Social Behaviour Orders and those in the 'conviction free’ Branches/Trades must also declare Formal Police Cautions and Fixed Penalties. The following branches and trades fall into the conviction-free category: OSB (Prov), Legal, Chaplain, Medical, Dental, Nursing, MSO, PEdO, RAFP.

For more information regarding any of these areas highlighted, please contact your AFCO and they will be able to give you more detailed information regarding specific cases.

Please note that, although OASC will endeavour to answer generic questions that arise, we will not be engaging or commenting on individual cases. In those cases, the individual is advised to contact their nearest AFCO who will be able to deal with any queries. All information published is for information only. Information regarding a career in the RAF can be found at http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers (http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers)

[OneFifty]

I know he is only asking questions and I am giving him answers. I do not mean to be hard on him. Yes he sounds promising but I am just being honest with him. Of course, the situation may change in the future but, and this is only my personal opinion, it won’t be changing in the near future.

CaptainKing, I am sorry if I came across as being harsh with you, this was not my intention. I only wished to inform you of the situation as it stands at the moment. As S4G said, study hard in the areas he states, and maybe in the future, your age permitting, you never know. Good luck.

[Mr C Hinecap]

Given our young hero has already shown a burning ambition to fly commercial and a definite positive interest in the SAAF, the RAF might, to some cynics, to be next on a list.

[northern_monkey]

I've heard rumours that the anthropometric requirements for Pilot/WSO may be changing due to the introduction of the Hawk T2. Does anybody know if these rumours are true?

[LHR747]

When asked to define leadership at a commissioning Board interview what would you reply?

[ElSupremo]

Hey guy, thanks for the responses. I've had a think about this and in my mind I rationalise combat as follows. In a dog fight it is kill or be killed which is basic survival so I'd have no problem with this. If I was dropping a bomb on an enemy target and the sovereignty of the UK was at risk then again, I'd have no problem with this. However, I'm not sure how to rationalise dropping a bomb on a Taliban target - I know they are thought to be responsible for worldwide terrorist attacks but it seems difficult to rationalise (what I mean is that the sovereignty of the UK or my life is not directly at risk). How do pilots who are serving in Afghanistan rationalise this?

[Mr C Hinecap]

I still think you need to fill in an application form and submit it before refining your big interview answers. It just seems to be a good order to do things in.

[airborne_artist]

ElS - Don't spend too much time second-guessing the Qs.

They want to see you, not your interpretation of what you think they want to see/hear.

LHR - When asked to define leadership at a commissioning Board interview what would you reply?It probably won't come out in that form. They are much more likely to ask about a situation where you showed leadership, and how you dealt with the issues than ask you for a dictionary definition of a concept that people have written books about.

[d1tto]

Just wondering if anyone could answer a few questions that I have on a potential career in the FAA.

1: Is the FAA more or less competitive than the RAF?
2: What sort of aptitude tests would you recommend that I take beforehand to give me even the most basic of ideas of where I'm at?
3: What sort of maths do I need? Is Speed Distance Time the highest level of maths needed or is it exponentially higher?
4: Fundamentally how hard is it to join in your own opinion? Is it a pipedream for most?

regards



P.s I'm 20 not 29, I just threw down any date when I registered here :)

[tarantonight]

.......................everytime.

You will not regret it.

Good Luck.

TN

[ZH875]

If your belt unbuckles quickly, go FAA.....



....If not, and you want to be among the best, then RAF it has to be.

[neildo]

Some googling and looking on the student room forums will easily answer all of those questions. Well maybe not the first one, I don't recall seeing any statistics but for example if you were interested in fast jet statistically you'd have a higher chance in the RAF.

Maths need to be mostly SDT but very fast and efficient. Taking aptitude tests beforehand is pointless as none will emulate the official one. The only preparation you can do really is lots of maths, multitasking and maybe hand-eye -coordination etc playing games/using a joystick. The bottom line is that a tonne of preparation won't do much use if you really don't have the innate skill-set.

Does anyone have any up to date figures for RAF and RN aircrew recruitment? (just for my own interest). It's irrelevant though really you've either got it (and are willing to put in the effort) or you don't, don't let statistics decide.

[Aerouk]

I don't agree with this "you've got it or you've not", there has been a lot of science into brain training which has proven a number of times you can improve your mental abilities.

[neildo]

Have you done the aptitude tests Aero? Having gained competitive scores for every branch after doing a lot of maths preparation I'd certainly say that maths practice helps and is something that you can easily "train" to perform better at.

However a large amount of the aptitude you just couldn't practice without sitting the test itself multiple times. I used a Nintendo DS "brain training" game during my preparation and played a flight sim game with a joystick etc which I certainly would recommend if you don't have flying experience as visualising objects from different perspectives (such as planes) and reading instruments does feature in the testing.

[Aerouk]

However a large amount of the aptitude you just couldn't practice without sitting the test itself

Yeah I would agree with that, it may be very hard to find an exercise that would help you improve the particular skills the RN/RAF are looking for.

Anyway... I heard they just do this test at the test centre :}

Aircrew Officer Aptitude Test : Careers : Royal Navy (http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/careers/careers-roles/fly-navy/)

[airborne_artist]

1: Is the FAA more or less competitive than the RAF?

FAA may well be more competitive for pilot entry than the RAF. About 15-20 months ago a Ppruner scored 120 on pilot aptitude and was unable to make it into the FAA (130 is a realistic min score), but got into the RAF. The actual pass score is 112, by the way. Anything below 125 is looking dodgy for the FAA, though there have been a couple of 118 P scores through to BRNC in the last couple of years.

[d1tto]

See thats the problem. I would rather join the RAF, however my eyesight is -0.25 (the lowest fecking amount of short sightedness that you can get) and the RAF does not allow ANY, so unfortunately it is ruled out.

I'm serious about a flying career and the FAA seems like a logical choice. I was looking at the AAC, but apparently you don't have much of a career with them before you are moved away from the actual "flying"

[OASC]

Over the next few weeks, we will be taking a journey through the entire application and selection process from the Armed Forces Careers Office (AFCO) to, in this case, starting Initial Officer Training (IOT). During the journey, we will try to capture as many of the items that we have already submitted in order to contextualize what we have written. Since the publication of this piece the Boarding Process programme has changed. However, the essence of the journey is unchanged and therefore has not been edited.

The Background

The journey starts with an imaginary person, called John, who has just turned 25 years old. He has 10 GCSEs grades A-C (B in Maths), 3 A-Levels grades A-C and a 2:ii degree in Sports Science. John left university at age 21 and has since worked in a department store in his hometown. He applied to the RAF as a pilot just over 2 years ago and, although producing solid aptitude scores, didn’t achieve the standard required in the Exercise Phase of the selection process. Therefore, during his performance review, he was told that he needed to go away and work on his confidence and problem solving skills. To achieve these aims, he was advised to join the Police Specials or a First Response Ambulance Team to help build his confidence around adults and, to improve his problems solving skills, practise distance, speed, distance calculations and try to think more ‘big picture’. However, he was also told that a future application for pilot would not be possible because he would be unable to enter IOT before his 24th birthday; this was disappointing news and caused him to lose interest in a future application.

However, 2 years on, John noticed on the RAF Careers website that the age for pilot had been increased from 23 to 25. As he had just turned 25, he decided to check with the RAF Careers Information Line (CIL) what the new age limit meant; as a result, he was told that the new limit required him to have commenced IOT before his 26th birthday. This gave him a year to re-apply for his dream job, which was just enough time. Although he knew that, theoretically, the entire selection process could take just 6 months, this was a best case scenario and did not leave any flexibility should there be any delays with medical issues or if the IOT dates did not fall right. Also, he noticed on the RAF Careers website how seriously fitness is taken; however, this did not worry him as he ran 5 miles, 3 times per week, and attended the gym a further 3 times. Nevertheless, he noted the Selection Fitness Test (SFT) standards and began work to ensure that he could easily pass this required element, knowing that the SFT was a pass/fail event.

He registered his interest with the CIL and waited for their reply. In the meantime, he continued with his general fitness preparation and increased the amount of research he was undertaking into the RAF, NATO, the UN, current affairs, air power, and the branch that he was applying for - so that he could shine during his interview. Appreciating the short time-line, John also decided to visit his local optometrist to have his eyes thoroughly tested to make sure he was not wasting his time. He decided that he would take his results with him to his officer presentation so that his AFCO could forward his results to OASC should he pass his officer filter interview.

In the next submission, John will complete the initial application process through to attending the OASC at RAF Cranwell.

For more information regarding any of these areas highlighted, please contact your AFCO and they will be able to give you more detailed information regarding specific cases.

Please note that, although OASC will endeavour to answer generic questions that arise, we will not be engaging or commenting on individual cases. In those cases, the individual is advised to contact their nearest AFCO who will be able to deal with any queries. All information published is for information only. Information regarding a career in the RAF can be found at http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers (http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers)

[OneFifty]

D1tto

Let the bods at OASC determine if your eyesight is below standards or not. If going by the book, even those who turn up at the AFCO wearing glasses should not routinely be prevented for making an application for pilot. Bottom line - let OASC decide.

[JaymieClifford]

As you are aware, OASC are not looking for new recruits.

I was hoping to join as a WSOp. This may not be a possibility until perhaps far into next year.

I am looking at my other options at the moment, one of them is joining as an Engineer and then transferring A.S.A.P. No doubt it is easier to type than do, but could somebody help me, or fill me in on the details of how it can be done.

Would be forever in their debt.

Kind regards,
Jaymie Clifford.

[Aerouk]

Why don't you apply for the Navy as an Observer?

[JaymieClifford]

Thanks, I will look into that.

Still would greatly appriciate details on transfering.

Jaymie.

[muppetofthenorth]

Transferring trades?

Complicated, long-winded, not guaranteed. Very risky gamble to take. What if it took 3,4 or 5 years? Could you handle being in a trade you, quite obviously, didn't want to be in for that long?

It has been done, of course, but that doesn't mean it will continue to be done. And you'd still have to go through the application procedure - OASC - and risk failure. What then?

If WSOp is what you want, stick with it. Use the extra time to get yourself better prepared.

[airborne_artist]

You stand a lot more chance of joining the RN as an Observer and transferring to the RAF than you do of transferring within the RAF. Plus the uniforms of the RN are smarter, and you won't get confused for an RAC patrolman :ok:

[JaymieClifford]

Thanks for the advice.

So my best bet is either to wait, or join RN or Army? Is the latter; How soon can I leave/transfer? Or does it depend on the job?

Thanks again.

[OneFifty]

Be careful. Notwithstanding the advice already given, if the AFCO get even a hint that you are using a trade choice to just 'get your foot in the door', your application will not get further than the first interview. It is understood how frustrating it can be, but the best advice to you has already been given... wait out and use the time to your benefit by doing further preparation: research and fitness.

[Benjybh]

I've heard today from a mate of mine that he was the only person out of 16 to pass his AIB a couple of months ago, and another acquaintance of mine from my Culdrose POAC course had everyone on his board fail as well. The former is off to Dartmouth (Warfare Occifer) in a couple of weeks, the intake consisting of only 60-70 cadets, rather than the usual 100+.

It seems that either nobody has been of the required standard of late, or that the RN are seriously cutting back on officer entry at the moment.

[Aerouk]

If the RN were cutting down on the amount of officers they require, why would they still put those applicants through the board? Surely it would cost money that could be spent elsewhere?

[airborne_artist]

Not unusual to fail the lot, or pass the lot. Look at a standard distribution bell-curve and you'll see why. I think my board had a slightly less than 50% pass rate.

The RN operate a pool system for those who pass the AIB, and you can stay in the pool for twelve months. Each BRNC intake is drawn from those in the top of each pool by specialisation, so you can be in the pool but not go further. To re-join it you have to re-do AIB.

It's certainly cheaper to have an excess in the pool than it is to have spare places at BRNC, particularly as the number get smaller, as the fixed costs of running BRNC haven't shrunk with the reduced intakes.

[JaymieClifford]

Got an email today from the RAF, they are recruiting WSOp for a limited time :D:D

I have never been so happy in my life. I have direction again!

[Aerouk]

Best of luck with it!

[andyrik]

A few questions about FATs relating to the application process. I passed my FAT's in April 2008 but failed to meet the AIB standard for entry into the FAA. I have recently re-applied and have some questions about a second attempt:

1. would I have to retake my FATs as part as the application process?

2. Could I retake my FATs to improve my score?

3. If I was to fail my FATs on a second attempt, or achieve a lower score than the previous attempt, would it be possible to revert back to the original score achieved in attempt 1?

4.would this second attempt be classed as my second and final attempt at FATs forever?

Was just looking for a heads up before meeting my liaisons officer.

Cheers

Andy

[OASC]

Last week we introduced our fictitious character who was re-applying to the RAF for pilot after being unsuccessful 2 years previous. This week we will take him through the process to get to the OASC.

After registering his interest with the CIL, John received an email with a link to the online registration process. He read through all of the instructions carefully and duly completed all of the required areas and submitted his application. Within a week, he received another email which contained information regarding the next steps and a number of forms including a formal RAF application, a medical declaration form and a Rehabilitation of Offenders declaration form. He was also advised of his nearest AFCO. John printed off all of the forms and carefully filled them in taking care to use correct grammar, punctuation and spelling. When he filled in his Rehabilitation of Offenders form, he recalled having smoked cannabis (Class B drug) once during his time as a student at university. As integrity is a key quality of anybody wishing to join the RAF, he wrote down the occurrence knowing that if he didn’t, he would probably be found out anyway, which would end any chances of him being successful. In the meantime he was contacted by his nearest AFCO inviting him to attend a RAF Officer (P2) presentation the following week.

John attended the presentation taking with him all his completed paperwork, his original education certificates, a proof of identification and his eye test results (from his voluntary eye test undertaken in the previous submission). The presentation gave a brief overview of the process that lay ahead, after-which he was asked whether he was still interested in continuing with his application for pilot. John stated that he was still interested and completed an application supplementary information form. His day was concluded by being booked into an RAF Officer (P2) filter interview for the following week. Now very motivated, John continued working on his fitness as well as his military and branch knowledge preparation so that he could deliver his best performance during the filter interview.

On the day of the interview, John checked over his application one last time, paid particular attention to his deportment and made sure that he had all the required paperwork. He got to the AFCO in good time, introduced himself and waited for the interviewer to collect him. The interview, which lasted about 45 minutes, was split into 2 parts. The first part covered personal information like family circumstances, hobbies and interests, activities inside and outside of school, responsibilities and any employment. The second part included questions on why he wanted to join the RAF, what he had done to gain a further understanding of the branch, what he knew about the branch, knowledge of the Service and military awareness. He answered all questions thoroughly paying particular attention to speaking clearly and concisely. Although quite nervous initially, John was surprised how quickly the 45 minutes passed. Towards the end of the Interview, the Interviewer made a statement about the Armed Forces policy on drug abuse. ‘Drug or solvent misuse is not tolerated in the Armed Forces and can attract disciplinary action, including discharge from the Service. However, the Service acknowledges that applicants may have been involved with drugs in the past and do not routinely exclude them from selection because of that’. It was at this point that John’s previous unfortunate encounter with cannabis was raised and discussed. The Officer Commanding the AFCO felt that John performed very well and stated that he would forward his application onto the OASC for further consideration. Before he knew it, he was walking back home very excited.

A week later, John received a letter from the OASC inviting him to attend a selection procedure in 3 months time. The letter contained a medical form and some notes for guidance on attending the selection procedure. He filled in the medical form very carefully and put it in a safe place. He would take his medical form with him to the OASC later on in the year. John spent the following 3 months preparing for his selection board. He read and absorbed his notes for guidance, he maintained his fitness programme and he continued his research into his chosen branch, the RAF, NATO and current affairs. He also arranged through his AFCO to visit his local RAF base in order to gain a deeper understanding of his branch and the officer way of life.

In the next submission, we will follow John through the first part of the selection process.

For more information regarding any of these areas highlighted, please contact your AFCO and they will be able to give you more detailed information regarding specific cases.

Please note that, although OASC will endeavour to answer generic questions that arise, we will not be engaging or commenting on individual cases. In those cases, the individual is advised to contact their nearest AFCO who will be able to deal with any queries. All information published is for information only. Information regarding a career in the RAF can be found at http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers (http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers)

[JaymieClifford]

Brilliantly helpful OASC. Some great things in there I didn't know.

Thank you.

[Pontius Navigator]

If I was dropping a bomb on an enemy target and the sovereignty of the UK was at risk then again, I'd have no problem with this. However, I'm not sure how to rationalise dropping a bomb on a Taliban target

ES,

To kill or not to kill, that is the question. There is rarely a simple answer but many variations and uncertainties. Also times change and collateral damage (killing civilians) is increasingly contentious. I shall give some examples:

In The Cruel Sea, Jack Hawkins was prosecuting a possible submarine. Asdic had a solid contact classified as a submarine but visually they could see a line of men in the water. To attack the submarine and kill the men or resuce the men and risk being sunk? Fiction but a dilema.

Or an interdiction target, a bridge deep in enemy territory. There may be people in or around the bridge. If you do not destroy the bridge the enemy might launch a devastating attack. Not fiction but what did the crew do? (Gulf War 1)

Or friendly troops in contact but civilians in close proximity to hostiles. Not to attack could endanger own troops. Again, not fiction, Ed Macy in Apache.

However you would not be the first to be either uncertain or actually opposed to HMGs policies. There was a recent courts martial where a member of HM Forces decided that he could not support the war in the Middle East.

There was an earlier case during the Suez campaign where a Canberra pilot was also in disagreement and retracted his undercarriage on take-off. At least that was the story at the time.

Any suggestion, at the interview stage, that would might harbour consciencious objections would probably lead to an instant objection unless you could create a very strong arguement.

[pipercam]

Hi,

I wondered if anyone might be able to tell me what the average hold length is looking like for pilots post IOT and post EFT at the moment?

Many Thanks

[mattb999]

It's been 2 weeks to 3 months for the guys that graduated in Feb. The guys graduating...oh today..will be 3 weeks to around 6 months. There seems to be a fair few EFT courses - the snow earlier on the year delayed some training.

Can't answer post EFT holds - I am not that far yet!

[britarg]

I have a new question. I know everyone is saying WSOp isn't open but im going to ask anyway. The selection process at OASC is it the same process as for potential officers and pilots? Do the aptitude tests contain a lot of physics based questions and a "flying" test?

Thanks

[airborne_artist]

No and No.

[britarg]

Really? Ive read somewhere in another forum that the selection process in very similar pretty much the same. Where can I find out info about what its really like so I can properly prepare myself :S thanks for the help

[OneFifty]

Go to your local AFCO and ask for the DVD!

[Spearmint-R33]

It is pretty much the same selection process.

Make an appointment with your local AFCO and attend a P2 presentation. It and more will be revealed there.

I'm currently in the process of applying to become a WSOp what with 11.44yrs (According to JPA) under my belt as a TG1 AV (JT so I'm old school).

However, I never received that email which apparently was sent to me on the 15th April 2010. I know it's not my email account at fault as I have received all other correspondence on this matter successfully.

Fingers crossed I can achieve some leeway and understanding.

Anyway, best of luck.

[Spearmint-R33]

Further to my previous post which you'll not see until a lovely moderator has approved it. Look up 'OASC' on Youtube.

You'll find a couple of vids which are just a copy of what you get on part of the DVD that you'll receive from the AFCO at the P2 presentation.

[Herc-u-lease]

spearmint,

how are you not a cpl yet? meant in the nicest yet still inquisitive way. hats off to you for going the wsop route.

Herc

[Spearmint-R33]

spearmint,

how are you not a cpl yet? meant in the nicest yet still inquisitive way. hats off to you for going the wsop route.

Herc

Oh believe me, I have spent many a day wondering the same. Never been in trouble, considered above my peers when it comes to trade knowledge, secondary duties up the ying-yang including charity work etc etc. If you were to read my last 5 assessments you would think I pass gold during my daily visit to the throne.

I have in retrospect found myself placed at a reasonable position on this years promotion board.

Regardless of the fact if I get my two-banana or not, I am still aiming for WSOp.

[downsizer]

^^^^How dare you cheat on us with another forum...:ok:

[OASC]

Last week John completed the application process prior to attending the OASC. After filing his interest with the CIL, he attended an Officer P2 Presentation, followed by an interview. He subsequently received a call-forward letter from the OASC to attend in 3 months time. This week we will follow John through arriving at RAF Cranwell to the beginning of the Exercise Phase.

John drove to RAF Cranwell on Tuesday afternoon arriving at the Main Guardroom at about 1700hrs. He parked his car behind the Main Guardroom and went in to obtain his passes to gain access to the base. He was given direction to the candidates’ accommodation and the car park, which he duly followed. He went to the Candidates’ Mess Reception to get his room key and, after unloading his car and settling into his room, he walked back to the Candidates’ Mess to see who was around. He met up with a number of other candidates in the Mess where he chatted over a drink until dinner at 1800hrs. At 1830hrs, all of the candidates congregated in the Television Room in the Candidates’ Mess for an arrival briefing delivered by the OASC Duty Officer. The briefing outlined a few mandatory points, general administration information and summarised what to expect during the selection process. The candidates also received a number of forms that had to be filled in and handed to the OASC Reception the following morning. After the briefing, John had another drink and a chat to a few more of the candidates before heading back to his room to carefully fill in his forms, paying particular attention to the legibility, accuracy and coherency of what he was writing, after which he got an early night in preparation for the intensive 1st day of the selection process.

The candidates were awoken by a bell at 0600hrs the following morning and, after a quick shower and change, they all went to breakfast. John made sure that he had all the required documents and his sports kit packed in his bag. He also decided to take his notes that he had made throughout his time researching about the military, his chosen branch and current affairs so that he could use them to revise if he had any spare time. He then made his way across to the OASC building by 0650hrs. On arrival, the candidates weremet by the Aptitude Testing Team and given a brief about the procedure for the aptitude testing phase. Before he knew it, John was concentrating intensely on a range of aptitude tests. The tests took John about 7 hours in total taking into account scheduled breaks. Once he had finished the tests, he went back to the candidates’ waiting area and used his time wisely by reading through the notes that he had decided to bring. Eventually, he was called forward for a review of his aptitude performance. He went into an office with the reviewing officer where he was given the good news that he had scored well on his aptitude tests. John was delighted. The Reviewing Officer then outlined his performance in more detail and gave John a few words of encouragement for the Exercise Phase. Now buzzing, John went back to Reception. After a short wait the candidates were told to get changed in to sports kit and then they were issued with green coveralls ready for the next phase. Now back in Reception the candidates were given numbered bibs to put over their coveralls which identified what candidates were in which syndicate. Next, the candidates had their photos taken and then they were told to sit and wait for a welcome briefing from Group Captain OASC.

At 1450hrs, the Group Captain entered the waiting room and welcomed the candidates to the OASC. He explained that the candidates were joining the RAF at a very demanding and challenging time therefore standards were high. He went on to encourage everyone to give the Selection Process their all and contribute fully to all aspects of the next phase. The briefing really fired everyone up. The atmosphere was filled with nervous energy as the candidates waited for the Board Members to come and collect them to commence the Exercise Phase.

Next week, we will continue John’s journey through Day One of the Exercise Phase.

For more information regarding any of these areas highlighted, please contact your AFCO and they will be able to give you more detailed information regarding specific cases.

Please note that, although OASC will endeavour to answer generic questions that arise, we will not be engaging or commenting on individual cases. In those cases, the individual is advised to contact their nearest AFCO who will be able to deal with any queries. All information published is for information only. Information regarding a career in the RAF can be found at http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers (http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers)

[Spearmint-R33]

^^^^How dare you cheat on us with another forum...:ok:

Well you know, I like to diversify. :ok:

[NDW]

Good Afternoon all,

After much decision making & speaking to the parents, I have decided to join the RAF as a WSOp.
( Note : I have decided = I will try)

I am currently studying for my AS levels at college in History and Geography and will be concluding them in June this year, after which I will not be continuing them into the A2 phase.

This decision was made after the college that I am studying have completely ruined my A level course ( ie the subjects I should have been taking, I couldnt get onto due to lack of lecturers) and also the fact that the college is filled with morons, and other social misfits :mad:

I am taking 1 year out after this year, as currently I'm working for a flying school at my local airport as a Operations Assistant,so I will therefore try and complete my PPL and also to get myself as fit & healthy as possible.

So fingers crossed that this time next year I could be well on my way into the RAF.

Many Thanks

NDW

[camelspyyder]

Good for you - go for it.:ok:

Although you may want to learn a little tolerance - I am at WSOp school myself and it too is filled with "morons and other social misfits" - some students, some staff:)

CS

[onrey_oleuk]

Hi all,

I am currently studying for my A Levels. Taking Politics, English and PE. I am going to be applying as soon as i have finished my exams in order to revise for the interview. I was just wondering if anyone had any advice for the interview and also if anyone knew what the current waiting time is for Piloting Officer at OASC?

cheers :)

[OASC]

Last week we saw that John had driven to RAF Cranwell, settled into his accommodation and met some of his fellow candidates. Having completed some more paperwork, he underwent the aptitude testing process. He was informed that he had been successful in his aptitude tests having scored strongly. Now, wearing his green overalls and sitting patiently with his syndicate, John awaited the arrival of the Board Member to commence the Exercise Phase.

The Board member walked into the waiting room and announced ‘Echo syndicate, this way please’. This was it! Time to go to work! John’s syndicate of 6 people lined up against the wall and the Board Member introduced himself. After a brief chat he escorted the candidates to the syndicate room pointing out the medical reception, the toilets and the candidates’ waiting area opposite the syndicate rooms along the way. After a short wait outside the syndicate room, the candidates were called in. They sat against the wall in number order while the Board Chairman delivered a briefing covering the Exercise Phase process and what was expected of them. The candidates seemed quite nervous at this time but the Chairman stated that this was quite normal and that once the exercises were underway they would soon settle down.

The first exercise of the afternoon was the Group Discussion. They were given a briefing explaining that they would be given 3 random topics to talk about and that the exercise would last for 15 minutes. John had been through the Exercise Phase before where his performance was compromised by his lack of confidence, so this time he was adamant that he would involve himself whole heartedly with determination, enthusiasm and urgency. He was not about to waste this opportunity. The syndicate was told to rearrange their chairs into a semi-circle before the Board Member announced the first topic. John made sure he started the discussion with a couple of good points and then slowly others started to join in. John noticed that candidates 3 and 5 were very quiet so he decided to try to bring them into the conversation. Before he knew it the syndicate were on their final topic. Everyone seemed to be joining in apart from number 5 who seemed to lack confidence; the very thing that prevented John from progressing last time. John thought that he would try to talk to number 5 during the break between exercises to encourage him to contribute more. After the Discussion, the candidates were told to go to the candidates waiting area to wait for the next exercise to begin. Less than 10 minutes later they were lined up outside the syndicate room again.

The syndicate were invited in once again and the candidates immediately noticed that the room layout had changed. This time the candidates were sat behind 2 tables with some paperwork in front of them. The Chairman then briefed the candidates that the following exercise was a Group Planning exercise and the syndicate had to create a joint solution to a problem in which they found themselves. The exercise was split into 3 phases. First was a 20 minute private study period, followed by a 20 minute group discussion phase concluded by a group question phase. The private study phase commenced and John read through the scenario very carefully, making notes and endeavouring to fully understand what his team needed to do and the limitations that had to be taken into account. As he put the finishing touches to his notes, the Chairman introduced the next phase. Over the next 20 minutes the group pieced together a plan to solve the problem. John made sure that he got all of his points across in the group and took a turn in leading the discussion to formulate the plan. Although John tried to engage candidate number 5, he still looked very uncomfortable. Finally, the candidates rearranged the tables into a straight line so that the candidates were facing the Board. The chairman then fired questions at individuals about the scenario and the plan. John did well, answering all questions accurately and concisely. He was also pleased with his performance when he was put under pressure and asked to think on his feet. After the Exercise, the Board Member handed out some notes and the Chairman delivered another briefing outlining the timings for the following morning. The Chairman also explained that the candidates should take the time to read through the notes on selection, conditions of service and training, and the notes on Exercise Hangar protocol.

John and the rest of the candidates then made their way to the Candidates Mess for a well earned rest. Next week, we will follow John through the second day of the Exercise Phase.

For more information regarding any of these areas highlighted, please contact your AFCO and they will be able to give you more detailed information regarding specific cases.

Please note that, although OASC will endeavour to answer generic questions that arise, we will not be engaging or commenting on individual cases. In those cases, the individual is advised to contact their nearest AFCO who will be able to deal with any queries. All information published is for information only. Information regarding a career in the RAF can be found at http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers (http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers)

[Mr C Hinecap]

onrey. You might want to read the posts on here by 'OASC' and do some more research - possibly on TheStudentRoom website as well. There is no such thing as a 'Piloting Officer' - there are Pilots, there are Pilot Officers, indeed there are still Acting Pilot Officers - but no Piloting Officers.
'Times' are as long as a piece of string. Lots of applicants, few places.

[Spearmint-R33]

For anybody who is re-mustering from a ground trade like myself, as of the 1st May 2010 you have to successfully complete the Psychometric tests as per a civilian.

FWIW I have now passed my P2 interview and I have these tests this coming Friday.

Slowly but steadily I am getting there. :ok:

[Spearmint-R33]

Aptitude tests now passed. Not a bad job considering my age and for the last 11.5 years of my life my brain has been trained to work a different way. So I had best get some more practice in for Aptitude testing to remove any room for error.

[Spearmint-R33]

There is a link on the SDT test site that I have been using for a few weeks but I am unsure of its validity.

Succeed at RAF OASC (http://prep4oasc.com/)

My question is, has anyone used this product and if so how would you rate it?

[neildo]

I did not use any preparation type sites/guides for sale. Some people on my board did use them. However strangely enough the ones that said they had, did not get through in the end. All of the information on that link is available freely I am sure between this and other sites (such as the student room - was a gold mine for me).

As these "products" are certainly unofficial and clearly not endorsed by OASC or the RAF I would be interested to hear their take on them.

[Spearmint-R33]

As these "products" are certainly unofficial and clearly not endorsed by OASC or the RAF I would be interested to hear their take on them

Indeed, I was expecting such an answer really so I'll not be partaking with my cold hard cash this time round. I think I'll stick to the more official and freely available techniques such as the Commissioning Club and of course, my own prep work.

[Aerouk]

When they work out the UCAS points, such as the 180 for the RN, do they use Standard Grades/GCSEs?

According to the UCAS site, Standard Grades for band 1 or 2 (A or B in GCSEs) are worth 38 points for a 1 and 28 points for a 2.

[Sambo P]

Has anyone given the fatpass thing a go? fatpass.co.uk

I was wondering as it was recommended by a guy I knew, he passed his OASC, but you have to pay 6 pounds I think.

Also is anyone heading down there in September?

[muppetofthenorth]

Just because one person passed after having rwad it does not mean it is worth the money. Noone I know who got through OASC (and I know more than a few...) did it by buying revision hints.

There is nothing out there worth buying in terms of hints, tips or advice. All you need and more is available for free in hundreds of places, you just have to be bothered enough to pull out your finger and find it.

If you can't do that, then you shouldn't be applying.

[Herc-u-lease]

completely agree with muppet of the north. however, in my preparation I used a couple of books about passing cognitive selection tests, in addition to the normal OASC type examples. I would recommend using these as a complementary source of sharpening your overal mental agility and lateral thinking.

there is no "silver bullet" book out there that will tell you how to pass OASC! just like the current affairs, you have a wide range of sources available to you to help broaden your knowledge/abilities.

[Aerouk]

I was looking over the training schedule recently, why do the RAF do 62hrs of flying during DEFTS but the AAC only do 40 and the RN do 58.5?

Just curious.

[OASC]

In the last bulletin, John had completed the first day of the Exercise Phase having undertaken the Discussion and the Group Planning exercises. Then, having had a good night’s sleep, he woke early and prepared himself for the demands of the second day.

John and the other 5 members of his syndicate walked over to the OASC ready to be picked up by the OASC control staff outside of their syndicate room at 0720hrs. All of the syndicates were then led to the Exercise Hanger. Everyone sat around an example exercise and listened carefully to a hangar familiarisation briefing. This briefing covered hanger protocol, health and safety and techniques to employ when executing the various exercises; it also covered the general rules that applied to all of the exercises. John took particular note of this part of the briefing as he knew that any limitations or rules would have to be taken into account during all of the exercises in order to create a full and credible plan. Once the briefing had been completed, one of the 2 boarding officers for his syndicate came around the corner and led John’s syndicate to the first exercise.

The boarding officer briefed that the first exercise was a Leaderless and would last for 30 minutes. He further briefed what the team had to do, what equipment they had to use and other special rules that had to be taken into account. At the end of the briefing, each member of the syndicate was given the opportunity to ask questions. John asked a couple of questions to clarify a few points regarding the rules, knowing that he would not have any further opportunities to ask questions once the exercise was underway. Then the 6 members of John’s syndicate lined up behind the start line before the board wished them luck and announced that the time was about to start. The first 2 minutes of the exercise was spent in a survey of the course. During this period, all rules could be broken and the equipment could be moved. John made very good use of the time, directing people in the group to try different things while he too moved around the course, judging distances and considering possible techniques to employ. Before they knew it, the 2 minutes was up and the syndicate was told to return all the equipment back to its original position and then to move quickly back behind the start line. A boarding officer then told them to go on with the exercise.

The following 28 minutes went past very quickly only being interrupted by the boarding officers halting proceedings when someone broke a rule or to provide the team with a time check. John tried to maintain a central presence within the group, speaking and directing in a loud and clear but not forced voice. He also tried to encourage others within the group. Again, candidate number 5 was being quiet and rather peripheral to the exercise, so John tried to get him involved as much as he could. John made sure he was always busy, looking for opportunities to get involved with the current part of the plan or looking at the next part of the plan, and generally being a proactive member of the team. Most of all, he tried to make sure that the Team kept moving when they hit problems as he remembered being told by the boarding officers that it was better to test ideas rather than waste time discussing them for a long time but making no progress. To the shock of the syndicate, time was called even though they had only achieved half of the exercise. The syndicate looked like they had been working quite hard and there was a buzz of energy as they all walked over to one of the waiting areas. The boarding officer then debriefed the exercise by asking what went well and what didn’t before telling the syndicate to relax for about 10 minutes before the next set of exercises would commence. John and the other candidates talked excitedly amongst themselves about how they had done and how they could have improved their performance. The 10 minutes passed very quickly before the boarding officer came into the waiting area to brief the next part of the Exercise Phase, which would be the Command Situation Exercises.

Next week, we will follow John through the next part of the exercise phase.

For more information regarding any of these areas highlighted, please contact your AFCO and they will be able to give you more detailed information regarding specific cases.

Please note that, although OASC will endeavour to answer generic questions that arise, we will not be engaging or commenting on individual cases. In those cases, the individual is advised to contact their nearest AFCO who will be able to deal with any queries. All information published is for information only. Information regarding a career in the RAF can be found at http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers (http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers)

[OASC]

The OASC would like to take this opportunity to clarify its current policy regarding aptitude assessment. An individual applying for an aptitude related branch - FB(P), FB(WSO), WSOp, OSB(ABM), OSB(ATC) and/or OSB(Int) - must first pass the corresponding aptitude testing battery to be considered further. A ‘pass’ of a battery has two distinct elements: first, the individual must achieve at least the (minimum) index cut-off and second, the individual must achieve at least the minimum stanine in each of the domains that comprise the battery. Anyone who does not succeed in both these areas will not progress to the Exercise Phase of the OASC Selection Process. Previously, some individuals with stanine deficiencies in their aptitude performance were selected due to shortfalls in specific branches; however, it is now inappropriate to take the associated professional training risk. In sum, individuals attending OASC for aptitude-based branches only will not progress to the Exercise Phase of the OASC Selection Process unless they successfully satisfy the two separate elements of the aptitude test battery for at least one of their branch choices – but we reserve the right to review this policy.

For more information regarding aptitude testing at the OASC, please refer to OASC Bulletin 4.

For more information regarding any of these areas highlighted, please contact your AFCO and they will be able to give you more detailed information regarding specific cases.

Please note that, although OASC will endeavour to answer generic questions that arise, we will not be engaging or commenting on individual cases. In those cases, the individual is advised to contact their nearest AFCO who will be able to deal with any queries. All information published is for information only. Information regarding a career in the RAF can be found at http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers (http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers)

[Winch-control]

A very nicely written appraisal of the exercise phase at Cranwell. I have not attended their myself, however it sounds like it hasn't changed much since my attendance at Biggin Hill in 1989.:ok:

My only comment would be that the bulletin appears to be written in a tone directed to the younger audience.

My apologies to the the staff at OASC. I believe you do an excellent job in the selection process for potential Officers and Aircrew.:D

[airborne_artist]

I was looking over the training schedule recently, why do the RAF do 62hrs of flying during DEFTS but the AAC only do 40 and the RN do 58.5?

Just curious.

The flippant answer is that the Crabs take longer to learn...:}

The real answer is that the AAC will never fly anything other than RW or an Islander, the RN guys will mostly (for the moment) head to RW, and the RAF chaps will go either RW, ME or FJ, though I don't know the proportions.

[OASC]

In the last bulletin, John had completed the first dynamic exercise of the OASC Selection Process: the Leaderless. This week, we pick up the scenario as the syndicate waits for one of its boarding officers to brief them on the Command Situation exercises.

The boarding officer briefed the syndicate on the next set of exercises, which would be the Command Situations. In these exercises, each member of the syndicate would take it in turn to lead. The syndicate was briefed in depth about the main differences between the previous Leaderless exercise and the Command Situations, including outlining the exercise protocol, choreography and what to include in the brief. The main differences highlighted were that the Command Situation exercises lasted only 15 minutes and the nominated leader would be the only member of the team to receive a briefing from a boarding officer. The leader would have a minimum of 2 minutes compulsory survey time in which he could examine the exercise, test equipment and then formulate a plan. After the briefing John was called up to be the first leader.

John was taken to his exercise and the boarding officer read him a brief covering its aim and the special rules that would apply. Then, he was given the opportunity to ask questions at the end of the brief, which he took advantage of to clarify some points as he knew he would not be able to ask further questions after this point. The boarding officer then announced that the exercise was about to commence with the compulsory survey. With the clock running, John immediately started to walk around the exercise, moving various pieces of equipment to see how he could use them to achieve his aim. The survey time shot passed very quickly and before he knew it the boarding officer told him to replace the equipment and go to the finish line to call his team; John had been offered the opportunity to continue his survey beyond 2 minutes but he knew that would eat into his execution time, so he chose not to. John briskly got himself into position behind the finish line and then called his team in a loud, clear, confident voice. His team came running and positioned themselves behind the start line. John briefed his team carefully and logically, including all aspects that were outlined in the initial brief from the boarding officer – and, of course, detailed his plan. After the briefing, he ran up to his syndicate at the Start Line to see whether they had any questions. After a couple of misunderstandings had been cleared up, John started to direct his team, standing back to make sure that he had a good view of developments. He endeavoured to speak in a clear and confident manner delivering his orders authoritatively but appropriately, providing sound feedback and encouragement where necessary. He kept his team motivated throughout and maintained a rapid pace in order to attempt to meet the aim of the exercise in the permitted time.

His exercise progressed well although John got stuck on one aspect for a minute or so but, after consulting his team, he was able to re-plan and re-direct proceedings. John didn’t finish his exercise, but was pleased with the progress that had made. In the other exercises, each led by another member of his syndicate, he tried to be a proactive team member, always trying to get involved in the physical and cerebral sense. Also, when candidate number 5 was in the lead, he struggled in his problem solving of the exercise; so, John tried to guide him as much as possible without taking over and tried to encourage him quietly to keep him going.

The 6 exercises were completed in what seemed like 5 minutes and the syndicate looked quite exhausted. However, there was no time to relax because after the final Command Situation exercise, a boarding officer delivered another briefing explaining the next exercise.

Next week, we will follow John through the final part of the Exercise Phase.

For more information regarding any of these areas highlighted, please contact your AFCO and they will be able to give you more detailed information regarding specific cases.

Please note that, although OASC will endeavour to answer generic questions that arise, we will not be engaging or commenting on individual cases. In those cases, the individual is advised to contact their nearest AFCO who will be able to deal with any queries. All information published is for information only.

Information regarding a career in the RAF can be found at http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers (http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers)

[not_so_sis]

I believe there is an option to take a degree whilst going through the training pipeline as a Pilot in the RAF, Royal Navy and In the Army Air Corps.
In my Specific are of interest which is the RAF, I would be interested to hear from Pilots or alike who have undertaken, or know of the degree's available whilst training, or any others who could nudge me towards a reference on the above.
Greatly appreciated.

not_so_sis

[Pontius Navigator]

I believe there is an option to take a degree whilst going through the training pipeline as a Pilot in the RAF, Royal Navy and In the Army Air Corps.
In my Specific are of interest which is the RAF, I would be interested to hear from Pilots or alike who have undertaken, or know of the degree's available whilst training, or any others who could nudge me towards a reference on the above.
Greatly appreciated.

not_so_sis

not_so, not so. In theory it might be possible but in practise, until legislation is introduced to increase the day to 36 hours, you will find that training will take over your life for as long as it takes.

Once you are out of the training pipeline, and on a sqn, you start again with OpQual. Once you have qualified as an operational pilot, say 3 years or more down the line, you will want/need to hone your professional skills.

Once you have attained a moderate operational proficiency you might consider undertaking training for professional enhancement, such as staff studies or becoming a qualified ----- instructor.

Only when you are away from the frontline, and in a staff job, might you consider you have the time to undertake degree studies.

There are people who have done it but very few. I only got my degrees once I had a regular 9-5 job and the ability to plan my own programme.

[not_so_sis]

Ok well thanks for clearing that up at least!
not_so_sis

[Aerouk]

RN - Royal Navy (http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/in-service-degree-scheme)

[OASC]

In the last bulletin, John had completed all of the dynamic exercises in the OASC Exercise Hangar. He now had one more exercise to undertake before the Exercise Phase of the Selection Process was concluded. We left him as he was about to receive the Individual Planning briefing from one of the boarding officers.

The boarding officer briefed the syndicate about the Individual Planning exercise, which would be the last exercise of the Phase. He stated that, in essence, the exercise was similar to the Group Planning in that the candidates would have to create a plan to deal with an imaginary situation in which they found themselves. The clear difference, as its name suggested, was that this exercise would be performed individually. The boarding officer went on to state that candidates would have 20 minutes to read and absorb the facts of the scenario and an associated map, and to create a plan to deal with the situation, making notes as required. Afterwards, the candidates would be questioned individually and alone for about 10 minutes on the scenario and their plan. John was feeling quite tired but knew that he needed to maintain focus in order to clear this final hurdle of the Phase.

The candidates were then led to the Candidates’ Waiting Room, opposite their syndicate rooms, where they waited to be called forward by a member of the OASC Control Staff. While John was waiting, he tried to relax by talking to his colleagues about his experiences in the Hangar earlier that morning. Then, the door opened and John was called forward. He was led into a private study room were he was told to sit at a booth so that he could not see any of the other candidates’ notes; then his study and planning time commenced. He spent the first 5 minutes carefully reading through the scenario to get a feel for what he was being asked to do; then he read through it again, this time taking notes and working on preliminary plans. John kept an eye on the clock on the wall to get a rough idea of how much time remained. Once he had a sound plan written down, he went through it again to check for mistakes. He noted that he had a couple of minutes left, so he decided to work on some contingency plans.

He hadn’t quite completed work on his contingencies before the Control Staff came in to the room and announced that his private study time was over. John was directed to pick up his notes, go to his syndicate room and knock on the door. He waited outside until he was invited in by the boarding officers. John entered promptly where he was greeted. In the room, John could see that there were 2 tables pushed together, and positioned directly opposite the 2 boarding officers. One of the tables had a large map of the scenario attached to a notice board. John was directed to place his notes on the empty table and then to stand beside the map. Once the Board had confirmed that the map was the same as the one that John had been studying for the last 20 minutes, the questions started. John tried to remain calm and composed, whilst answering questions in a clear and concise manner. After being questioned on the outline of his plan, John was invited to pick up his notes and sit in front of the boarding officer who was asking the questions. The boarding officer then asked more questions probing further into the detail of John’s chosen plan. John remained calm and endeavoured to think clearly, accurately and logically. He found it very challenging but answered all of the questions posed as best as he could. The 10 minutes flashed passed very quickly. Then, John was asked to leave his notes on the table and go to the Candidates’ Mess for lunch and then get changed in preparation for his interview. He was feeling quite positive about his overall performance; however, he knew that straight after lunch he would find out whether he had been successful in this Phase - or not!

Next week, we will find out whether John will proceed from the Exercise Phase to complete the rest of the OASC Selection Process.

For more information regarding any of these areas highlighted, please contact your AFCO and they will be able to give you more detailed information regarding specific cases.

Please note that, although OASC will endeavour to answer generic questions that arise, we will not be engaging or commenting on individual cases. In those cases, the individual is advised to contact their nearest AFCO who will be able to deal with any queries. All information published is for information only.

Information regarding a career in the RAF can be found at http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers (http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers)

[Unchecked]

I'll p*ss myself if he's failed.

[OASC]

In the last bulletin, John had just completed all of the aspects of the Exercise Phase of the OASC Selection Process. He had been told to go to the Candidates’ Mess for lunch and then to return to OASC changed into a suit. We now join John as he finds out whether his performance in the Exercise Phase demonstrated enough potential for him to continue to the formal interview, medical and fitness testing parts of the Selection Process, which would commence that afternoon.

John arrived back at the OASC Reception in good time. He talked to his colleagues about the exercises that they had undertaken that morning as they waited anxiously to be told whether or not they had succeeded. The candidates were then told to move to the briefing area and wait. Shortly afterwards, one of the members of the OASC Control Staff announced the names of those candidates who needed to collect their belongings and follow him. John’s name eventually was called but Candidate 5’s was not. John gathered up his belongings and made his way to the Medical Reception to wait for his medical examination and interview. He (and 'Unchecked') were very relieved to have made it through the Exercise Phase this time but felt sorry for Candidate 5. John knew how he must be feeling, after all he had been in that position just 2 years previously. John knew that the people left in the OASC Reception had not made the cut and would be briefed accordingly by one of the boarding officers.

Once in the Medical Reception, the candidates received a briefing from the medical staff outlining what would take place over the next few hours and when their interviews would be. John’s interview was due to take place the following morning. He felt quite relieved about this as it gave him another night to prepare. Immediately after the briefing, John’s name was called out for his hearing test, to be followed straight away by his eye test. He then was anthropometrically measured in detail to determine whether he would fit into all of the cockpits and flight decks of the aircraft in the RAF. After a short break, he had a urine test, an electrocardiogram and finally a spirometry test. Then he was then told that he was not to eat anything after 2000hrs that evening so that a fasting blood test could be taken the following morning. That concluded the medical examinations for the day and the candidates made their back to the Candidates’ Mess.

In the Mess that evening, John bumped into Candidate 5. When he asked how he had got on, Candidate 5 stated that the Review Officer had said that he had not projected himself adequately enough and generally lacked confidence within the group. As a consequence, he could not effectively influence the group’s activities or put his ideas forward in a forceful manner. He was also told that he struggled with problem solving skills. The Review Officer gave Candidate 5 some sound advice on how to improve on his shortfalls and advised him to come back in a year’s time for another attempt. John smiled as that was exactly what let him down on his previous visit to OASC. John gave Candidate 5 a few words of support and advice before going in to dinner.

The following morning, John made his way over to the OASC Medical Reception feeling rather hungry. He was taken immediately into a treatment room to have his blood taken, after which he returned to the Candidates’ Mess for a late breakfast to replenish his energy. Then, having returned to Medical Reception, John was led to a treatment room for a thorough medical examination by one of the doctors before being taken for his medical review. In the review, John was given a clean bill of health and declared medically fit (at this stage only) to serve as a pilot; however, he was told that the results of his electrocardiogram and blood tests would remain outstanding and could impact his medical fitness for selection to FB(P). Nevertheless, John was delighted to have passed the medical at this stage; now he had the challenges of the interview and fitness test to deal with.

Next week, we will follow John through his interview.

For more information regarding any of these areas highlighted, please contact your AFCO and they will be able to give you more detailed information regarding specific cases.

Please note that, although OASC will endeavour to answer generic questions that arise, we will not be engaging or commenting on individual cases. In those cases, the individual is advised to contact their nearest AFCO who will be able to deal with any queries. All information published is for information only.

Information regarding a career in the RAF can be found at http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers (http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers)

[Chrisdaman]

makes very interesting reading :)

[Chrisdaman]

i thought i would introduce myself as i've signed up to this forum to get more information and help myself for my current RAF application:

my name is Chris, i'm currently 22 and i'm 3 weeks away from my filter interview at AFCO brighton. I'm applying for WSOp (Crewman) and have been learning / researching as much as i can about the job and the extra roles, and training since i knew this was the job for me. I applied once before as a pilot but got put back 6 months. I was 19 then, but since that experience, i've thought about what i want from a career in the RAF, and there is more than 1 way to fly, and i'm now coming back and more hopeful / confident in this application.

sorry about the life story but sometimes it helps to have a background on these internet forums

any words of advice for my application would be greatly appreciated, i'm not asking to be spoon fed information, but those who are in, or are ahead of me on the application for any job, your views and experiences would be larvly

:ok::ok: :ok:

Chris

[Pure Pursuit]

Chris,

chaps on here are going to lay into your style of writing I'm afraid! Capitals are not optional at the beginning of sentences!

Sitting in the SNCO mess at Cranwell a little while ago, I came across a large number of airmen aircrew students who, at the end of the course, were in no way guaranteed a flying job. The issue has arisen from the early retirement of Nimrod which has heavily reduced the requirement for WSOp recruitment at the moment. In addition, the Phase II (trade/branch training) system is almost overwhelmed in many areas of the RAF, including WSOp. This has resulted in a bow wave of students that the RAF does not actually need due to the impending cuts. In other words, we already have too many people in the training system.

Recruitment will not stop however, it will slow to a trickle over the next few years. Tough time apply!! Keep your options open and good luck.

[Top Bunk Tester]

chaps on here are going to lay into your style of writing I'm afraid! Capitals are not optional at the beginning of sentences!

Oh the irony of it all! :ugh:

[Chrisdaman]

Apologies for the typing, it was late last night and it had been a long day:ugh:

Is it not true that the Nimrod MRA4 is replacing the retiring R1?

And that the RAF are closing RAF Cottesmore to fund the purchase of 22 new chinooks?

[Future Hunter]

Chris,

Put back for pilot 6 months? At the age of 19? You do know that means you're not-not going to get it!
A 6-month try again means just that, come back and give it another go. The recruitment people love it if you keep showing an interest, but if you change your mind just because of a knockback then they'll probably hound you for it at OASC.

There is no reason why you can't apply for Pilot and put WSO/WSOp down the list - I got kicked back from all 3 days at OASC when I was 17 for a pilot bursary, then applied again at the tender age of 21 and here I am doing what I wanted. Stick to your convictions and desires and it shows some of that integrity stuff they love.

But if what you want is WSOp (role not guaranteed until on 55(R)), then good luck with it.

I recommend not saying in your filter interview that 22 Chinooks are the equivalent of 11 Nimrod MR2 and RAF Cottesmore! Have a look at the official party lines on the RAF website and read some newpaper articles rather than the rumour mills. You're entitled to your opinion (and expected to have them) but make sure you research thoroughly (The Nimrod MRA4 and R1 are quite different beasts - like Tornado F3 and GR4).

Good luck with your application!

[Pure Pursuit]

TBT, too easy...

Chris,

my first post was intended to simply point out that you are going to be up against it. Prepare yourself as well as you can and do your research on the job you are after.

The RAF is going to have plenty of people to choose from and will have the luxury of choosing the best from the crop.

Good luck and crack on!

[getsometimein]

Good luck with applying for WSOp, whatever you get its a great job...

Just remember that, assuming you get all the way through testing/training, you could end up on a number of platforms...

C130, VC10, Tristar, Merlin, Chinook, C17, Nimrod, KC135, E3 Sentry... Plus a few more...

Dont assume you're going to get what you want, be prepared for a varied job that allows you to transfer between different aircraft types, and completely different roles, all the way through your career!

[Chrisdaman]

Thank you for the advice and words of wisdom, was I was after

I know I'm up against it with the job and applying for and that the RAF and Cranwell can pick and choose as they please, but this time around I feel much more confident on the subject matter and have been making much more of an effort to do everything

on another note i've got my 1.5mile down to 9.30 (outdoors not treadmill) and after following advice have got up to 50 situps in 60seconds and 25 press-ups in a minute :)

[TEEEJ]

Chrisdaman wrote

Is it not true that the Nimrod MRA4 is replacing the retiring R1?

The RC-135 is planned to replace the Nimrod R.1. The reporting as of a few months ago has the R.1 being retired next year with the crews moving onto USAF RC-135s. The plan is for the RAF to receive RC-135s during 2014.

'An MoD spokesman said that between "2011 and 2014, the U.K. will enter into a partnering arrangement with the U.S. that will safeguard U.K. personnel core competencies."

USAF Planes To Help U.K. Fill SIGINT Gap - Defense News (http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=4549506&c=AME&s=AIR)

Good luck with your application.

TJ

[TheSmiter]

Not so fast TEEJ!

See below reply by Peter Luff (Defence Under Sec) to question by Angus Robertson. Hansard 9th June.


On 22 March 2010 the Ministry of Defence made an announcement that the Nimrod R1 would be replaced by US Air Force Rivet Joint RC-135 aircraft and associated ground systems. Following the new Government's announcement to audit all spending decisions taken since 1 January this year, this decision is currently under review. Furthermore, as part of the Strategic Defence and Security Review work has been set in hand to review all major equipment and support contracts to ensure the future programme is coherent with future defence needs and can be afforded.


I wouldn't put good money on any eqpt project making it through SDR.

Tough times to be applying for any job in HM Forces.

Best of luck Chris :ok:

[TEEEJ]

TheSmiter,
Noted, but that is only the new government playing the safe ball. It is far too important an asset, IMHO, not to be replaced. Could it see a new lease of life for the BAE Systems proposal to replace the Nimrod R.1s?

TJ

[Future Hunter]

TJ,

I think you're on to something - I really don't think BAe would mind making some of the spare Nimrod frames into EW ones. Seeing as Woodford have all the jigs and parts required to do it, plus it would keep everything British and even allow some flexibility should we need more maritime or more EW (as we did with the original batch of nearly 50 'rods with EAW conversions and all sorts).

I'd quite happily see Nimrod in flying on in RAF service rather than a soul-less American off the shelf clapped out frame.

[Pontius Navigator]

Chris- you applied to be a pilot. Three years later you are considering crewman. This will pose an obvious question.

Why are you now applying to enlist as an SNCO when you originally applied for a commission? This could be taken to mean you are underconfident and lack the initiative, drive and self-confidence to be an effective member of aircrew.

There are many reasons why in three years you have decided that aircrew rather than pilot is what you really want. What you must be prepared for is to articulate why you are seeking NCO rather than Officer status.

[getsometimein]

Dude, apply again as a pilot, with WSO and WSOp as backup careers.... Thats what I did and some would say I got the lesser (WSOp), I'm still doing a job I love.

[STANDTO]

on another note i've got my 1.5mile down to 9.30 (outdoors not treadmill) and after following advice have got up to 50 situps in 60seconds and 25 press-ups in a minute

Should be another minute in there somewhere.

Yo say there is more than one way to fly. Depends if you want to drive I suppose. based on personal experience, do not discount AAC and FAA. Given my time around again, I wouldn't have been so single minded. Stick to it, and if you are good enough you will get it.

[Spearmint-R33]

The very best of luck in your application for the role of WSOp or indeed Commissioned Aircrew if you decide otherwise.

I'm a currently serving Junior Technician (TG1) with over 11.5 years of experience under my belt and I to am currently applying for WSOp. I have successfully passed the Aptitude and Filter Interview stages and I am just waiting on the OASC's decision in when they are going to board me. Nonetheless, the preparation on both a physical and mental level that I am putting myself through at the moment is nothing short of intense especially when I'm trying to fit it around my professional and family life.

However, the prize on successful completion of the myriad of hoops set up before I or any other applicant to jump through is more than worth it. It's going to be tough considering the current Fiscal environment but you can never have too much prep!

Good Luck!

[ElSupremo]

With the Government today saying that military cuts aren't out of question, is it likely that the RAF etc will reduce or even stop their intake of candidates soon?

[Mr C Hinecap]

Given your procrastination, E_S, that is a great question to ask now! Yes - recruitment is at a low, competition for the few places is very high and they really can pick and choose. Recruitment won't stop, as it causes too many problems and too many people are involved in the training world, but it is a trickle.
Will you be applying or holding out even longer?

[not_so_sis]

Hello,
What are the books currently read during IOT in the RAF?
Thanks not_so_sis

[ElSupremo]

Mr C Hinecap, I will now be applying verty shortly.

[Aerouk]

Good luck ES, keep me updated with how you get on.

[neildo]

not_so_sis

Here is the suggested reading list (had photographed to send to a mate who didn't get the sheet), can't comment much further as I've not started yet:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e289/neildo/6fb46a8a.jpg?t=1274457253

[not_so_sis]

Thankyou, much appreciated.

[Chrisdaman]

i've been getting into the running more recently and have got the 1.5mile down to 8MINUTES 54seconds, which i'm astonished at :D cycling daily is helping too

and homework at night, it drives the girlfriend crazy but i know it'll be worth it

[mumu]

have got the 1.5mile down to 8.54seconds

You should be in the Olympics. That is quicker than the current 100m best.

[Pontius Navigator]

drives the girlfriend crazy but i know it'll be worth it

Always a good interview question but now it may not be PC to ask about a girlfriend as you may have a ............

[MFC_Fly]

i've been getting into the running more recently and have got the 1.5mile down to 8.54seconds, which i'm astonished at

You and the rest of the world too :eek: I hope the Team GB Olympics selectors have got you on their list ;)

[TheSmiter]

Good skills Chris

Now try another OASC exercise

Speed = Distance / Time

S = 1.5 miles / 8.54 seconds

:hmm:

[Spearmint-R33]

Sub 9min for your 1.5mile eh? Very good.

I thought I was doing well with just under 10min 30 sec for a 1.5mile which would just see me pass the physical test for my age group.

[MFC_Fly]

Sub 9min for your 1.5mile eh? Very good.

No - sub 9 seconds! That's a little better than "Very good"!! :ok:

[NDW]

Chaps,

I was just wondering if anyone knows whether the RAF would accept an Advanced Diploma instead of 3 seperate A levels for Officer Aircrew.

Basically I've been offered a placement to study Mechanical Engineering at a local college and if successfully completed the diploma is equiv. to 3 full A Levels.

So does anyone know if this is true and is it a good qualification to do?

Thanks

NDW

[Pontius Navigator]

NDW, this is a rumour network. Ask your AFCO. When they say no write to Cranwell.

[Chrisdaman]

right well obviously i'm not faster than usain bolt :ok:

been riding 10miles each day up and down hills to help the legs and the obvious cardio gains for the running, followed by the press-ups and sit-ups

[OASC]

In the last bulletin, John had completed his medical examination and was declared provisionally medically fit to serve as a pilot. However, he fully understood that he would still need to wait for the results of his electrocardiogram, his blood test and receive confirmation that there was nothing out of the ordinary on his GP records before he would be given a full medical clearance to serve in the RAF. Despite knowing that this process would take a few weeks, John prepared himself for his interview.


John returned to Medical Reception feeling quite relieved about the result so far regarding his medical fitness. However, he couldn’t relax because he knew his interview was due any minute. After a short wait, one of the 2 officers who would interview him entered Medical Reception and called John’s name. John walked over to the interviewing officer and introduced himself. After pleasantries were exchanged, they both started to walk towards the interview room. On the way, the interviewing officer explained that the interview would be split into 2 parts and would last approximately 45 minutes in total. The first part would focus on John’s life to date and the second part would focus on his motivation for joining the RAF, his knowledge of the Service and his chosen branch. The interviewing officer also mentioned that the 45 minutes would pass extremely quickly and that, because there was a lot of ground to cover, John should not worry if the interviewers cut him off in order to move on if they had enough information. Additionally, he mentioned that if John was not able to answer a question, he should say so straight away rather than try to make a guess and waste time. As they approached the interview room John was asked how he was feeling and whether he had any questions before commencing the interview. Although he was feeling slightly nervous, John wanted to get started.

John walked into the interview room where he was greeted by the second interviewing officer who started to ask the Part 1 questions. He probed John’s life inside and outside of school between the ages of 11-18 years, followed by what he had been doing since he had left school. John endeavoured to relax and appear calm, and spoke clearly and concisely. There was one question that he didn’t quite understand, so he asked them to repeat it before giving his answer. John tried hard to sell himself, giving clear and brief evidence and dates of the times that he had held positions of responsibility, what differences he had made in various situations and his levels of involvement within the various team activities that he had participated in. Before he knew it, Part 1 was complete and the other interviewer took over.

The interviewing officer then asked John questions about why he wanted to join the RAF and specifically why he wanted to be a pilot. John gave very clear answers to these questions, including reasons why he had considered, but decided against, applying to the other Armed Services. Then John was questioned on his knowledge of the training he would undertake if successful at the OASC, from Initial Officer Training through to him becoming a front line pilot. He answered in as much detail as possible. Next, he was probed on his knowledge of the RAF and air power, what operations the Service was currently involved in, what roles it undertook and how they fitted into the bigger NATO picture. John had researched this area very thoroughly through speaking to various people on visits to stations, by looking at the RAF website and keeping an eye on the newspapers. Next, he would be questioned on current affairs; this was the part that John dreaded the most. However, he maintained a clear head and announced a variety of global and national topics that had caught his eye over the last year of research. The Interviewing officer then chose 2 of these issues to discuss, one global and one national, to see what John knew about them and what opinions he had. A couple of rounding off questions and the interview was over. The 45 minutes went past very quickly as promised.

John then returned to Medical Reception again, feeling quite pleased with his performance, and waited until he was called forward for his selection fitness test.

Next week, we will follow John through his fitness test.

For more information regarding any of these areas highlighted, please contact your AFCO and they will be able to give you more detailed information regarding specific cases.

Please note that, although OASC will endeavour to answer generic questions that arise, we will not be engaging or commenting on individual cases. In those cases, the individual is advised to contact their nearest AFCO who will be able to deal with any queries. All information published is for information only.

Information regarding a career in the RAF can be found at http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers (http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers)

[8becky8]

Hi, I just a few questions about the RAF as i am applying in a couple of weeks.
- First of all, does anyone have a sound description of the RAF's role within NATO?
- And the RAF's role within the UN? I have gathered together information about both but some of it isn't very clear.

Im up to date with more or less everything else, so if anyone could answer these questions it would be a great help!!

[Melchett01]

Whilst a long time out of OASC and out of touch with what Sleaford Tech are teaching, you might also want to consider some other books that might give you a broader outlook to operations. Like it or not, airpower is rarely going to be employed in pure air roles for its own sake for the foreseeable future, so you may as well start reading up early on the broader tenets of COIN and possible theories on how military power is shaping up.

The Accidental Guerrilla - David Kilcullen

Understanding Modern Warfare - David Jordan et al

Airpower in Small Wars: Fighting Insurgents and Terrorists - James Corrum

Also the Air Warfare Centre have cobbled together their own booklet (largely cribbed from the US Army / Marine Corps Counterinsurgency Field Manual) might be worth a quick read if not automatically issued at IOT. Incidentally, the original Counterinsurgency Field Manual can be found online via Google so you don't even have to buy it!

[Chrisdaman]

my filter interview is tomorrow :eek::uhoh:

[davejb]

As nobody else has said it then,
good luck <g>

if you make it then I hope you enjoy it - becoming an AEOp* changed my life dramatically, and I have no doubt whatsoever that if you get through it all then it will do the same for you....you WILL be a different person x years down the line, and when you are an old git like me you'll look back on it all and decide, without a shadow of doubt, that you'd do it all again given the choice.

Dave

*WSO/WSOp - back in my day the old gits wore an 'S'...don't panic, inside 5 years you too could have an equally valid marker to denote that 'I've spent longer in NAAFI queues than you've been in the airforce' sensation.

[Chinny Crewman]

How did it go then, do they still tell you there and then or do you have to wait? Good luck for OASC if it went ok!

[Chrisdaman]

i'll find out either saturday or monday by mail if i've been successfull

i think it went ok, this is my 2nd application and i felt much more comfortable with the questions and my knowledge. a couple of hesitation moments but generally on the whole i'm happy :ok:

it's going to be a nerve racking 3/4 days :ugh:

[OASC]

In the last bulletin, John had completed his Interview and returned to OASC Reception to wait for the next event. Then one of the Control Staff told him to go back to his accommodation to get changed into sports kit and return to Reception by 1130 hrs ready for the transport that would take the candidates to the gym to undertake the Selection Fitness Test (SFT). We pick up the scenario as John sits in Reception waiting for the transport.

At around midday, a member of the Control Staff invited the candidates to follow him onto a coach waiting outside OASC, which would take them all on a short journey to the gym. Once at the gym, the candidates were given a briefing by the Physical Education staff about the SFT in general, explaining that the minimum standards required for each of the 3 elements reflect what the ‘average’ person (by age and gender) must achieve. The briefing went on to detail the 3 individual disciplines: a 1.5 mile treadmill run, sit-ups and press-ups. The correct techniques to employ when performing the sit-ups and press-ups were demonstrated and then they were given guidance on how to pace themselves on the treadmill in order to achieve the required standard. Finally, they were told that the press-up and sit-up elements would be measured over a minute. The first group of people were called forward, which included John.

John took his position on the treadmill and looked at a guide in front of him that told him what pace to set on the treadmill to achieve the amber pass level. John knew that amber was the minimum requirement to pass the test, but he also knew that, to be as competitive as possible, he would need to run the 1.5 miles in as short a time as possible. John knew that this was one area that he had to really prepare for prior to coming to OASC as he knew that a poor result in the test would prevent him being selected. He felt that he had practised well at his local gym where he had managed to get well under the green time, as well as score highly on the press-up and sit-up elements. The test commenced and John set his initial pace from the guide. He felt good so he upped the pace. The first mile went passed and John still felt that he had reserve energy so he increased the pace further. The 1.5 mile point was coming up rapidly and his time was looking very good. As he went through the 1.5 mile point he noted his time at 9:08, which - by the assessment table in the guidance for candidate’s booklet - was classed as the standard exceeded.

With the run out of the way, John concentrated on the sit-up element next. He got into position and commenced his sit-ups at a brisk but steady pace. By the end of the period he had done 50 sit-ups; not his best effort but good enough for an achievement of green. The final element was the press-ups - John’s least favourite element! Again he took up his position and began. He started off strongly but, by the 30 second mark, was starting to struggle. He had already achieved 33 press-ups by then, so he took a couple of seconds to rest, which was allowed provided that he remained in the press-up position, back straight and knees off the floor. Then, he continued to the end of the minute period and, although his press-ups were really slow towards the end, he still managed to achieve 45, which again was good enough for an achievement of green. Overall, John was informed that he had passed to a green standard, and was delighted. After watching and waiting for the group behind to finish, he gathered up his belongings and went back to the coach and then all the candidates were driven back to the Candidates’ Mess. Once off the coach, the candidates were free to depart. John packed up his room, dropped his key off at Reception, got into his car and drove home.

Next week, we will conclude this brief journey through John’s experiences of the OASC Selection Process and what he could expect to happen next.

For more information regarding any of these areas highlighted, please contact your AFCO and they will be able to give you more detailed information regarding specific cases.

Please note that, although OASC will endeavour to answer generic questions that arise, we will not be engaging or commenting on individual cases. In those cases, the individual is advised to contact their nearest AFCO who will be able to deal with any queries. All information published is for information only.

Information regarding a career in the RAF can be found at http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers (http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers)

[Tommmo]

Just like to point out that at the fitness test you are not actually told the requirements for a 'green' pass, nor are you advised what speed to set the treadmill to in order to achieve it - only amber.
You should of course know all this beforehand though...

[Spearmint-R33]

Tommo, I received my joining instructions for the OASC only the other day. (Amendment April 2010) It states in there that you will be advised of the correct speed to achieve a green pass for your age group but to be honest you are quite correct that if you are serious about such an event you'll know every intrinsic detail beforehand.

[Chrisdaman]

my application has been forwarded to OASC at RAF cranwell!!!!!

I'm soo happy, the filter was where i tripped last time, now i can get stuck in with the fitness even more to get ready if i'm successful in getting to selection

:D :D :D :D :D :D

[Pontius Navigator]

Chris, well done, but don't make the mistake of concentrating on any one area. Also have a look at the Janet and John story in OASC, now that gives you a very good idea of what they think of a suitable fitness standard.

[Aerouk]

Well done, best of luck with the rest of it!

[not_so_sis]

Having been told I had successfully got through my filter interview for Pilot at the local careers office, what kind of time periods have people been subjected too before hearing from cranwell with invites to attend OASC?

[Tommmo]

Just speaking from my experience at OASC.
They had a chart on the wall with all the treadmill times that would achieve you an amber pass, but not green. One of my group even asked and they just said that those were the amber guide speeds and that was a pass.

And not_so_sis, the times can vary greatly. Some people have to wait 2-3 months, some only a few weeks. Personally I had to wait around 3 weeks.

[NDW]

Post Deleted.

Apologies for question asked

[NDW]

Apologies for punctuation and the thread. I'm writing it from an iPod touch and it has messed up in the last thread.

I will try and edit it again later.

The main message is clear enough though.

Thanks

[Aerouk]

Reason I am asking, the other chap says I won't get anywhere near Aircrew got the RAF, so I thought I would ask the experts.I think the two of you need to grow up and get a life. End of the day if you're both sh*t neither of you will get in regardless of how many stripes you get in the ATC.

[ElSupremo]

How long does it take to arrange a filter interview at the careers office (i.e. how long is the average waiting list?)? I've had my initial interview so my papers are ready to be sent (once I give the office the clearance letter from my doctor which should be coming through the post in a few weeks).

[Aerouk]

ES,

Are the RAF letting you go forward with the whole Asthma thing we've discussed in the past?

Keep us updated with how you get on.