OFFICER and AIRCREW 'CANDIDATES' PLEASE READ THIS THREAD FIRST!

[NDW]

What do you mean "technical training" and "further training"? If you don't pass CBAT you won't be getting in as a WSOp.

Downsizer, sorry. As I re-read it this AM, I intended it to sound like MOTN stated.

My interpretation was that he meant if he worked his proverbial off and then *just* achieved the pass mark to get in, it would probably indicate he might have similar issues on course.


NDW, that's not necessarily the case. The idea is if you have the aptitude then you would be able to cope with what's being thrown at you, so while I get your point, it might not be as cut and dry as you think.
However, you don't know that until you get in. Let them make that decision for you.

What guidance were you given after your recent test?

Thanks MOTN,

Basically, the offer to re-sit the test in Jan 2018 or look into a ground role. I had improved on areas I fell short of on my first attempt, but fell short on areas I'd done well in first time. If that makes sense?

I have seriously been considering a ground role, however, I'd feel disappointed in myself if I didn't give it one more go.

[downsizer]

You can join a ground role and attempt CBAT once you are in as well.

[Alchef]

Good Afternoon all, I handed my ID card in today after a fantastic 11 years as a Sea King pilot in the Fleet Air Arm. For the past couple of years I've been out of flying and in recruiting, due to a medical downgrade. This has finally seen me discharged via the Medical Board route. I'm posting to announce the launching of my new website www.milprep.co.uk (http://www.milprep.co.uk). My aim is offer coaching, mentoring and preparation services to young people who'd like a commission in the UK armed forces. Please check out the website, and if you have any enquiries then please get in touch. Good luck to you all!

[downsizer]

Zero need to pay some shyster to pass OASC and they won't be able to help with CBAT that's for sure. All that is needed is some research and application. Then listen to the feedback given at Filter Interview. Plus almost all RAF recruiting areas offer an OASC prep day, so why pay for potentially out of date info?

[MAD Boom]

I think 'shyster' is a bit harsh to describe someone who has given a substantial amount of time in service of his country, and wants to help those who wish to do the same.

I do agree that paying for a prep service is unnecessary, but that said how many in-service success stories would we have seen without the help of the vast number of commissioning clubs we see across the service? If you have the money (although I don't see any pricing on his website, so can't really quantify that), and you want a helping hand ahead of applying for a commission, then why not?

I would question the use of a foreign frigate (I'm going balls out with a stab at OHP variant, Darwin class maybe?) on a website looking to assist recruiting into the UK armed forces, and the phrase '11 years as a Sea King pilot' - come on Al, 11 years total service maybe......

Good luck to you mate, and sorry to see the med discharge.

[Bugs to forty]

It’s nothing new for someone who’s been brought into the world of Recruitment and Selection to subsequently try and exploit their knowledge for financial gain. Their ‘schooled’ candidates are invariably easy to spot at the selection centres and for them it doesn’t always go well. There are plenty of official briefings out there giving potential candidates all the information they need; if they’ve got what it takes, it’ll come through naturally and they’ll be spotted. The AFCO is there to help - use them.

[NDW]

You can join a ground role and attempt CBAT once you are in as well.

Hi Downsizer,

I'd heard from a few sources that this was becoming harder to do, even a few current serving personnel at my recent CBAT mentioned this.
My fear would be that I join a ground role & never get the chance to re-apply for Aircrew.

I'm going by what was briefly discussed on my CBAT.

Thanks.

[downsizer]

I'd heard from a few sources that this was becoming harder to do, even a few current serving personnel at my recent CBAT mentioned this.
My fear would be that I join a ground role & never get the chance to re-apply for Aircrew.

I'm going by what was briefly discussed on my CBAT.

Thanks.

Utter bollox.

OASC even put on CBAT test days for serving pers to just go and see how they do at CBAT w/o having to go through an AFCO and application process. If they score high enough then they can apply should they choose to.

[muppetofthenorth]

But it's not bollox that the numbers of serving pers who go through are less than the number of civvies who go through.

At most you're putting yourself in for, what, 25-30% of the slots available, rather than the civvy going in for the 70-75%.

You've got a chance, yeah, but not a particularly big one.

Plus there's the danger of going in with the hope of doing that, failing, and then being 'stuck' in a trade you never wanted.

[downsizer]

Big push for SA to go through at present.

Of course there is a risk of not getting through, same as he has now. But if there was anything else that interested him it's a reasonable shout.

[NDW]

Utter bollox.

OASC even put on CBAT test days for serving pers to just go and see how they do at CBAT w/o having to go through an AFCO and application process. If they score high enough then they can apply should they choose to.

Downsizer,

Thanks for the info. As I say, It was only briefly mentioned by other candidates at CBAT. Don't shoot the messenger.

But, thanks for the info.

[SpazSinbad]

"Getting through" means:

Fighter pilots on the RAF slow track Too many trainees for RAF?s fast jets - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/8962675/Fighter-pilots-on-the-RAF-slow-track-Too-many-trainees-for-RAFs-fast-jets.html)

[Bugs to forty]

"Getting through" means:

Fighter pilots on the RAF slow track Too many trainees for RAF?s fast jets - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/8962675/Fighter-pilots-on-the-RAF-slow-track-Too-many-trainees-for-RAFs-fast-jets.html)


Looks like VERY old news to me. Recruitment and selection opportunities are as strong as ever.

[SpazSinbad]

OOps you are correct - I saw todays date top right and did not notice 17 Dec 2011

I'm not SpazSinbad for nothing.

[Wander00]

Nevertheless, the RAF, and maybe the other services, have never been that hot at manpower planning. They seem to go from feast to famine and back again almost without pausing for breath. maybe things have improved now

[camelspyyder]

Oh yes. I mean no.

SDSR 15 gave us lots of shiny new toys (and spared the axe on some others) but there are no new crews to fly them, a training pipeline that cannot deliver them, and even trying to coax redundees back in isn't proving too successful.

Just where do the airships expect to conjure up 24 Poseidon crews, 60 or more Protector crews, and extra crews for RJ Sentry and Shadow. Thats over 400 new aviators needed just for that last sentence, yet there is no WSO pipeline, and the WSOp one is only feeding a trickle.

[NDW]

Oh yes. I mean no.

SDSR 15 gave us lots of shiny new toys (and spared the axe on some others) but there are no new crews to fly them, a training pipeline that cannot deliver them, and even trying to coax redundees back in isn't proving too successful.

Just where do the airships expect to conjure up 24 Poseidon crews, 60 or more Protector crews, and extra crews for RJ Sentry and Shadow. Thats over 400 new aviators needed just for that last sentence, yet there is no WSO pipeline, and the WSOp one is only feeding a trickle.

I'd be happy to help :E:E

[The RAF Taff]

What should I do with this year, I want to join up as soon as possible either as a rockape/driver or even a mover something that doesn't require technical training as I am under the impression I would have to pay back this training with time. I'm essentially looking for a time filler trade. I did bad in one test which stopped me qualifying for multiple roles however overall did very well and I'm confident I will pass on my second attempt. So what should I do in the mean time? After reading some of the above I'm under the impression that the RAF would rather take on civis than a serving airman is that true? Doesn't seem to make much sense to me. Any suggestions are appreciated

[Pontius Navigator]

Taff, on your last point, a civvie is someone who demonstrates potential over a short period of time. A Serviceman has been trained and observed over an extended period; he is a know quantity. This may be van advantage or not. What is true is the younger is more trainable.

What Bugs said about aptitude is only partly true. Yes, you have it or you font. A darts player does or doesn't, but they train to hone, improve, or maintain that ability. Similarly a trained pilot has the ability but still needs to hone it.

Although I said technical, I implied avoiding trades such as Regiment, Catering, Admin, Provost etc, all important support trades but further from the aircraft. ATC is one that might be good as you will be more closely associated, especially flight ops side of house which can be demanding for an airman.

[Bugs to forty]

Taff

I'm pleased you've moved to the OASC thread as it provides a useful trail for all potential candidates to read.

The latest CBAT battery (PB15) has been refined and re-weighted over the last few years to give what is believed to be a very robust indication of a candidate's potential to succeed in an aptitude branch. On average, candidates improve their raw scores in each discipline by around 6% at a second attempt; sure, there is some familiarization that you will have acquired - but at your second and subsequent attempts, the testing equipment will recognize you (by your name and DOB) and clever algorithms make adjustments to remove some of the familiarity gains. It is for this reason that you should never be given a re-test within 12 months.

At point of selection, OASC will be looking for certain numbers of WSOp candidates (driven by their ITT targets) from either Serving Airmen (SA) or Direct Entry (DE). The reason for the split is based on course allocations; i.e., there are sometimes limited spaces at Halton for ITC because that covers all trades whereas the NCAITC at Cranwell could take a greater number of potential SNCOs by drawing them from the SA pool.

Following CBAT, an OASC Boarding Officer should have advised you on options for the way ahead - particularly if you said you were keen to join now then re-sit CBAT in 12 months. Given your interests, I would suggest looking at the Flight Ops Assistant (FOA) role; you will get excellent and very relevant training as you progress through the school at RAF Shawbury and that knowledge will, in itself, help with ground school if or when you achieve your aim of WSOp. Otherwise, Regt could be fun for a while but don't even think about it unless you're already very fit!

Ultimately, by joining ASAP you're also saving time in the long run because you're getting initial recruit training out of the way during the next 12 months.

Bugs

[downsizer]

Just bear in mind two things...

1. At interview for your "chosen" trade you need to appear committed to that trade, declaring it as a method to kill time before going for another CBAT attempt may make people sniffy.
2. Some trades have long wait times to get in because they are over subscribed.

[YellowTom]

Bugs' comment about what your OASC guidance was is key - sharing that might help us give you some more guidance. His (or her if Bugs is a lass) comment about the split between Serving Airmen and Direct Entrant is also something to mull over, not something most of us would think about. Is there a way you can find out what the split was in the last year? (Think creatively there!) If it's 1:99, 99:1 or 50:50 then that might give a perspective.

Also (just checking) that you've not got your heart some on one specific WSOp stream? I'd hate for you to bust a mental gut getting in only to be sent dangling out the back of a Puma when you actually wanted to...... I was one the last to apply for a certain WSOp role which made it easier for me to put the 120% effort in to get in.

[Bugs to forty]

If it helps, think of the SA to DE split as 50:50... and I wouldn't let that influence your decision on joining in the ranks now. OASC have a certain degree of flexibility for the right candidates anyway so the key is to make yourself the right candidate.

[Pontius Navigator]

YT, it also depends on quality presenting at AFCO. On internal recruitment it used to be the case of a general trawl across all stations. It would be particularly when a new type was being brought in to service and a new cadre was being built up. Hint, what's new :)

[The RAF Taff]

Iv narrowed my choices down to these two, roles such as ATC fell under CBAT. I'd also hate to be working at a desk if I'm honest. So out of these two which do think is the safer bet ? (In terms of getting into CBAT ASAP)

[downsizer]

Driver has no entries until 2018. It's full already.

[The RAF Taff]

Driver has no entries until 2018. It's full already.

Just checked the website and used the filter "avalible now" and it's still coming up? What's your source ?

[The RAF Taff]

Also would I have the option of choosing which base to be stationed at provided that there was a man shortage at said station. Was thinking shawbury/cosford ? Not a must tho

[NDW]

Iv narrowed my choices down to these two, roles such as ATC fell under CBAT. I'd also hate to be working at a desk if I'm honest. So out of these two which do think is the safer bet ? (In terms of getting into CBAT ASAP)

The Officer at my local AFCO was a former WSOp, having joined the RAF initially as a Regt gunner. I'd hazard a guess that if you joined as a Regt Gunner, if or when the opportunity arose to pursue the WSOp path, you'd have a slight advantage in the fitness aspect at NCAITC (That's not me slating anyone who has undertaken NCAITC (and isnt Regt) as I've heard from various sources how horrific it is).

All the best.

[downsizer]

Just checked the website and used the filter "avalible now" and it's still coming up? What's your source ?

You can apply now, but you won't get in until 2018. So yes, it's available, but it will be a long wait.

My source of info is rock solid, trust me.

If you want in quick, Logs(Sup), ICT, Logs(Chef), Logs(Cat) and probably Gnr. Bear in mind though that you won't be able to do CBAT until you've completed phase 2 training. So that will be 10 weeks Halton + Trade training before you can go to CBAT.

[The RAF Taff]

What happened to the OP then? Flash to bang must be a record.
pardon?????

[The RAF Taff]

You can apply now, but you won't get in until 2018. So yes, it's available, but it will be a long wait.

My source of info is rock solid, trust me.

If you want in quick, Logs(Sup), ICT, Logs(Chef), Logs(Cat) and probably Gnr. Bear in mind though that you won't be able to do CBAT until you've completed phase 2 training. So that will be 10 weeks Halton + Trade training before you can go to CBAT.

any idea when the next raf regt intake is?

[YellowTom]

RAF Taff, have you read about the Potential Gunners Selection Course? Think of it as the RAF Regiment's version of OASC. Google about it and check you're the right sort of character to want to get through it. From my perspective, I'm glad they only let the fittest and toughest through to their basic training - but I'd rather spend another cold winter carrying pine poles around fields again than do their basic training!

[The RAF Taff]

You were shown as banned. 14 posts to ban could have been a record.

Yeah something about a unreadable post?

[NDW]

any idea when the next raf regt intake is?

Your local AFCO should have those details.

[downsizer]

There are Regt intakes in mid July, but you can't get through the system that quick unless you are very lucky. Ph2 training for gunner is quite long.

Also seriously think about being trapped in a post training RoS, in a trade you may not be committed to, and the inability to leave the RAF if you fail CBAT again.

[YellowTom]

If you're a Rock and transfer into WSOp but DON'T stream into helicopter crewman, expect to spend the rest of your career telling everyone why not as they'd have assumed etc etc etc!!

[camelspyyder]

10 years ago, 95% of baby WSOps wanted to be RW crewman (It was on the telly from Afghanistan all the time). Now, not so many I think.

[downsizer]

Never been a better time to apply for WSOp, or SNCO WC.

[Hawk98]

Hi chaps,
It's been a little while since I posted on Pprune so please bare with me! I'm currently 19 years old and have been applying to join as either a pilot, RPAS pilot or WSOp, attended the P2 presentation, flew through my CBAT and gone on a station visit (to add to the countless ones I've done with cadets) in anticipation for my filter interview. Come Monday this week I turned up for my interview nice and early - and well - failed! Now the reasoning they gave behind this (I'm not questioning their judgement, just curious) is that I lack sufficient leadership experience/skills and also management experience. Now this is a fair point I'm sure, but bearing in mind I was a cadet for 5 years, did about every course available to me, and in the last year led the squadron (through camp, competitions) and also helped run a couple of clubs in school, how much leadership experience do they expect of someone my age? As understandably I was fairly gutted and have been given the option of coming back in three months to try again (which the interviewing Sgt thought would be difficult) or entering as a ground trade then trying to re role in a few years. I'm also considering going down the aircrewman route in the Navy but am unsure whether I will have to wait that three months before they would interview me?(my aptitude test is valid until the start of June 2018)

Sorry about the length!

[YellowTom]

Hello Hawk98,

Sorry to hear you didn't get the answer you were hoping for, the feedback you mention could mean one of two things:

You have the leadership experience they're looking for but you didn't communicate that you do well enough for them to feel you do. Leadership and management experience, especially at a relatively young age, will come in many shapes and sizes, and won't always clearly be labelled as such when you think how to answer the question.

Or, you gave accurate answers but have just yet to build up the levels of leadership experience they're looking for.


I'd imagine that at your age they're looking for a range of leadership experience rather someone with narrow focussed but exceptionally strong leadership skills which perhaps a much older person would develop in their career. Do you have anyone in the cadets who can help you look at your leadership experience from a different angle?


I'll let you read the previous postings in this thread to decide whether joining a ground trade and then reapplying for an aircrew role or commissioned branch is a good idea!

[Bugs to forty]

Hawk

Further to the advise above... as you know, the purpose if the FI is to ensure you're ready for OASC; for whatever reason, on this occasion your AFCO thought not. Actually, he's won you some useful thinking and preparation time and the offer to return in just 3 months is positive. Had the AFCO put you forward when not ready, a subsequent potentially weak OASC performance could have been a waste of your CBAT score... remember, you cannot repeat OASC within 12 months.

You should now have a look at what else you've done/you're doing other than ATC: regular physical exercise and some work in the community are quick wins with the latter maybe even providing an opportunity for you to further display your leadership skills.

Thereafter, your next FI will be almost identical to the one you've just taken; think about that carefully and I guarantee you'll be more confident and will deliver a better performance. And finally, given your apparent aptitude it is sensible to include WSOp with an OASC attempt because the Boarding Officers will have the opportunity to take a broader view on your potential. Good luck.

[Melchett01]

Hawk,

I first read your post yesterday, and my immediate first reaction was that sounds bloody daft, just how much leadership and management can a 19 year old have under their belt? That's why when I went through longer ago than I would care to remember, those coming in from the ranks were expected to show more than someone of the same age coming in from education. But instinct said not to reply right away, there was something not quite right, and YellowTom and Bugs have it right - I think.

At your age, there is only so much you leadership and management you can acquire, and there's no way you can improve significantly in 3 months. The selection process for individuals at your stage generally looks more for potential, even if slightly raw and agricultural. And at your stage, with limited experience that means it's about how you sell yourself.

So what you now need to do is work out how to make what experience you do have relevant to the Selection board. I won't do all the work for you, but you might want to research what exactly the RAF looks for in terms of leadership (there are documents out there) and then work out how your profile fits into those traits - and then spell that out at interview, making specific reference to what you are benchmarking your experience against. If you can't substantially increase what you have, you best make most efficient use of what you've got. Your profile, from what you have posted, isn't too dissimilar to mine at your age, probably better in some respects, and I did alright in the end. And don't worry, all the best guys have a couple of goes at selection!

Edited to add - your thoughts about the RN instead. You will probably find that barring differences in how they score aptitude tests, all the services generally look for the same sort of thing in terms of leadership potential. It's easier to hop between services if it's an aptitude issue than for a leadership / personal development issue. I wouldn't say don't give it a go, I would just say don't expect it to be any easier if you haven't first ironed out any issues in the feedback you got from the Careers Office.

[NDW]

Hi chaps,
It's been a little while since I posted on Pprune so please bare with me! I'm currently 19 years old and have been applying to join as either a pilot, RPAS pilot or WSOp, attended the P2 presentation, flew through my CBAT and gone on a station visit (to add to the countless ones I've done with cadets) in anticipation for my filter interview. Come Monday this week I turned up for my interview nice and early - and well - failed! Now the reasoning they gave behind this (I'm not questioning their judgement, just curious) is that I lack sufficient leadership experience/skills and also management experience. Now this is a fair point I'm sure, but bearing in mind I was a cadet for 5 years, did about every course available to me, and in the last year led the squadron (through camp, competitions) and also helped run a couple of clubs in school, how much leadership experience do they expect of someone my age? As understandably I was fairly gutted and have been given the option of coming back in three months to try again (which the interviewing Sgt thought would be difficult) or entering as a ground trade then trying to re role in a few years. I'm also considering going down the aircrewman route in the Navy but am unsure whether I will have to wait that three months before they would interview me?(my aptitude test is valid until the start of June 2018)

Sorry about the length!


Hi mate,

I, personally, can't see why you couldn't apply to the Royal Navy and have your interview fairly pronto. From personal experience with the RN, they were very good and very quick through the application process.
I applied Feb 2016, did my RT (Recruit test, similar to the RAF AST) for Aircrewman, followed swiftly by my interview (about 10 days later IIRC) and then the medical (where I hit a slight brick wall and my application got delayed 5 months). I'd give it a go if I were you. I just wish I continued with mine but I'll be too old by the time I can re-apply.

Best of luck.

[Sky Sports]

My 16 year old lad has had his heart set on becoming Officer Aircrew for a long time. His whole life for the last 4 years has been geared around achieving it, much to his credit.
He has got 9 A grade GCSE's, is studying 4 A-levels, is a Flt Sgt in air cadets and is a solo glider pilot.

All good so far. However, he has turned into a lanky git, standing at 6'2" already. He is acutely aware there are limits on limb length etc. and the self doubt is starting to creep in. He has said on a couple of occasions he doubts he will pass the medical and he is starting to distance himself from his dream to avoid heartbreak.

So my question is this, is it possible to have an early sizing medical, either military or civvy, so he knows one way or the other?

[Pontius Navigator]

I searched for RAF Anthromorphic measurements

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/197889/response/499716/attach/5/AP1269A%2520Lflt%25204%252005%2520Anthropometry%2520Enclosur e%2520B%2520U.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwiboJTJotrWAhVSbVAKHWsBD9gQFggoMAA&usg=AOvVaw2J0K5EqFVBvuK0BiBb1jza

This might give you some guidance. Do a similar search yourself.

[WingsofRoffa]

Does anybody know the rules surrounding being allergic to Penicillin, will this bar Pilot entry?

I have read in multiple places that you are given a med tag and it's ok beyond that as alternative antibiotics are available.

As a point; I've never had a type 1 reaction and my only reaction was deemed mild.

[Clive Roberts]

Handle ambiguity?

Sound like one of those PC phrases which makes paperwork for selection boards.

In my experience, it meant getting several conflicting courses of action thrown at you whilst things were diverging badly from the plan whilst airborne, and being able (arrogant enough?) to select the (possibly only) one which results in a safe landing somewhere.

No doubt, within the MOD, life is much more .. um .. ambiguous.

[richlear]

Hi

Does anyone have an idea of what percentage of those suitably qualified peole walking into an AFCO actually make it to a squadron as a pilot? I know there are a lot of variables, this is for a presentation on military flying to an ATC squadron. I want to get a point across so some rough numbers will suffice.

Thanks in advance.

[muppetofthenorth]

Hi

Does anyone have an idea of what percentage of those suitably qualified peole walking into an AFCO actually make it to a squadron as a pilot? I know there are a lot of variables, this is for a presentation on military flying to an ATC squadron. I want to get a point across so some rough numbers will suffice.

Thanks in advance.

The old, oft-quoted and therefore no doubt apocryphal stat for FJ pilots was 1:10,000.

Large pinch of sodium chloride needed.

[Bugs to forty]

Who are you and why are you presenting? If you're representing the AFCO, they should arm you with some up to date stats. If you're currently serving - brilliant, if only more would give some of their time to provide such opportunities? But still, speak to the AFCO or OASC.

Anyhow, it's good that you're there and the following might help:

About 19% of pilot applicants pass the required aptitude tests but thereafter its a numbers game based simply on demand and supply. If the doors are very open, around 25% of those attending OASC could get selected to IOT.

After that is flying training which, based on recent evidence, has around a 90% success rate from EFT to front line.

All that said, if you're talking to ATC what they must understand is that an increasing number of pilot applications are received from those currently serving in the ranks; that performance at CBAT peaks at around 22 years of age; and that many of the attributes sought at OASC can be improved through some 'time in'. In other words, if you want to be a pilot, but don't pass CBAT first time, then unless you have a better plan (e.g. university)... don't be afraid to join anyway... get stuck in and enjoy yourself... then take the CBAT again in 12 months time (if that's still what you want)!

[charliegolf]

The old, oft-quoted and therefore no doubt apocryphal stat for FJ pilots was 1:10,000.

Large pinch of sodium chloride needed.

Less than 13000 people joined ALL the regular armed services in the year to 31 Aug 17. So the oft quoted is a bit low maybe?

CG

[Pontius Navigator]

I asked a former president at OASC and this is their response:

Well over 10 years ago now but I think it was 1:1200. I imagine it will be less these days. A big draw used to be the pension and other benefits no longer around. Bear in mind though that that's anyone walking into an AFCO with random quals saying they want to be a pilot and actually in possession of quals more suited to a trade apprenticeship. It's not 'FJ pilot' though. Just pilot. We recruited with an assumption for FJ (aptitude, medical fitness etc) and any who did not make FJ could then be hived off for ME or rotary. Aptitude tests etc were all designed with the assumption that the potential pilot had the aptitude to fly whatever was considered to be the most complex platform of the day. E.g, we morphed the aptitude tests away from testing predominately hand, eye, foot coord (although still a factor) required for the most complex platform of the time (GR7) to be more about spatial orientation and ability to process and act on complex and multiple information streams associated with the Typhoon as we geared up for the first Typhoon Ab Initios. Perhaps something similar is being done now with the advent of Litening II.

CG, so well less than 1:10,000 which is logical given buoyant recruiting in the past against the perceived disadvantages of Service life today compared with the commercial draw out side.

[muppetofthenorth]

Less than 13000 people joined ALL the regular armed services in the year to 31 Aug 17. So the oft quoted is a bit low maybe?

CG

In fairness, I did say it old and most likely wrong. It was the number bandied around a bit before I joined the UAS in '05.

[richlear]

Thanks all.

[charliegolf]

In fairness, I did say it old and most likely wrong. It was the number bandied around a bit before I joined the UAS in '05.

And to be further fair, I'm always interested at the possible answer, which seems impossible to pin down, but it's numbers, so someone knows!:ok:

CG

(thinks: OASC must have throughput numbers from, say, 2005, which could be checked...)

[muppetofthenorth]

And to be further fair, I'm always interested at the possible answer, which seems impossible to pin down, but it's numbers, so someone knows!:ok:

CG

(thinks: OASC must have throughput numbers from, say, 2005, which could be checked...)

Definitely.
But what do you measure? Anyone who walks in,
picks up a leaflet but never darkens their door again (would that be counted anywhere?), only those who actually fill out forms, or get to an interview, or something else?

Numbers exist, but you can make numbers say anything you want them to say.

[charliegolf]

Maybe measure anyone who gets to Biggin/Cranwell, and look at the percentage of those reaching a squadron. If you got that far and washed out before CR, I reckon you earned the right to say, "Iwas a fast jet pilot/(insert the branch of interest). I was NCA (airman aircrew in imperial units!), so'd like to see those numbers.

It would be a better yardstick than that old chestnut, 'you're in the top x% of the population': most of the population couldn't give a fig!

CG

[muppetofthenorth]

Maybe measure anyone who gets to Biggin/Cranwell, and look at the percentage of those reaching a squadron. If you got that far and washed out before CR, I reckon you earned the right to say, "Iwas a fast jet pilot/(insert the branch of interest). I was NCA (airman aircrew in imperial units!), so'd like to see those numbers.

It would be a better yardstick than that old chestnut, 'you're in the top x% of the population': most of the population couldn't give a fig!

CG

Potentially, but then you've already lost a lot of people who didn't make it through the medical or the filter interview...
Maybe it should be counted against all those who sat through a P2 presentation, the part at the AFCO before your filter...?

[camelspyyder]

ISTR that the WSOp classes at Cranwell about 5 years ago were around 7-10% of those invited for selection. However that in itself does not tell you just how many more applied and did not attend OASC.

[charliegolf]

Potentially, but then you've already lost a lot of people who didn't make it through the medical or the filter interview...
Maybe it should be counted against all those who sat through a P2 presentation, the part at the AFCO before your filter...?

Works for me, but I'm so old, I only went into the AFCO to collect PAM Air 96C. The rest was post office to Biggin Hill!

CG

[YellowTom]

If it helps, I’ve never seen a face from aircrew selection again in my life (RAF or applicants). Joined as one of the last AEOps.

[charliegolf]

If it helps, I’ve never seen a face from aircrew selection again in my life (RAF or applicants). Joined as one of the last AEOps.

I saw one guy from OASC- he didn't get in as airman aircrew, he was a mover at Brize.

CG

[Pontius Navigator]

YT, me neither, indeed virtually none from ITS either. I remember on who got bonus points for being a hard B as cadet parade cdr. Don't really remember any on my nav course from ITS either.

Of my nav course, two ex Cranditz Navs (they came to 1 ANS to complete nav training). Most went trucks and when Argosy, Beverley, Britannia etc all went so did the navs.

[YellowTom]

For new recruits then, the theme seems to always be that you bond well as a team during training but normally don’t see anyone again. It’s only when you reach front like units do you make friends for life or start seeing familiar. Most operational flying ‘communities’ are small these days although some are very small. In other words, be careful who you casually ask about that rash you got overnight!

[Hawk98]

Going on a bit of a tangent - but would anyone happen to know whether the RAF CBAT is the exact same as the RN's FAT exam? I've passed CBAT for pilot but am now probably going to apply to the Navy as well for pilot/aircrew, but cannot find any detail regarding if they are the same test (they're both done at OASC at Cranwell so I guess it's likely). So if anyone could shed any light on if the Navy would accept a valid CBAT it would be much appreciated as I don't fancy another trip up to Lincolnshire to do it, if it can be avoided!

Cheers,
Hawk

[Melchett01]

Going on a bit of a tangent - but would anyone happen to know whether the RAF CBAT is the exact same as the RN's FAT exam? I've passed CBAT for pilot but am now probably going to apply to the Navy as well for pilot/aircrew, but cannot find any detail regarding if they are the same test (they're both done at OASC at Cranwell so I guess it's likely). So if anyone could shed any light on if the Navy would accept a valid CBAT it would be much appreciated as I don't fancy another trip up to Lincolnshire to do it, if it can be avoided!

Cheers,
Hawk

Just an opinion, but I'd suspect they are the same but with potentially different weightings for the various tests. When I went through the aptitude system in the mid-late 90s I briefly considered both RAF and AAC. From memory the AAC said they used the same tests but scored differently and with a different pass mark of 90 vice 110. I think the lower mark was down to the fact that it was effectively a test for entry to a short flying grading course where they weeded more out rather than full on flying training. Not sure if the same principles still apply, but if they do I suspect differences won't be huge and would reflect nuances of aircraft types and mission profiles rather than the need for a minimum level of aptitude just to get the thing airborne and back again in one piece.

So potentially the RN might say no if they weight the tests differently. You could just ring the RN and ask, they don't bite and you won't be the first to ask that question.

[Wander00]

Hawk - well if you cannot hack the travelling......

[teeteringhead]

Works for me, but I'm so old, I only went into the AFCO to collect PAM Air 96C. The rest was post office to Biggin Hill! Or in my (even older!) case I just filled in a form in the newspaper and sent it to Adastral House - all by post until arrival at Biggin!

[Hawk98]

Hawk - well if you cannot hack the travelling......

The travelling isn't an issue but there's not much point doing a near on 500 mile round trip again if the RAF one is valid with them.. after all the taxpayer would be paying for my train ticket. Would just be a waste of time and money haha! If necessary I'd have no issue going up again to do it but would be far more convenient if I didn't! Requested a call back from the Navy Careers a few times about it but haven't heard anything yet.

[Pontius Navigator]

Teeters, or Hornchurch before that and after 2 days to Cranwell for another two. As one day at Hornchurch was medical and aptitude I can't remember where we did interviews and hangar exercises. Only those for Cranwell did the extra two days.

[Bugs to forty]

Going on a bit of a tangent - but would anyone happen to know whether the RAF CBAT is the exact same as the RN's FAT exam? I've passed CBAT for pilot but am now probably going to apply to the Navy as well for pilot/aircrew, but cannot find any detail regarding if they are the same test (they're both done at OASC at Cranwell so I guess it's likely). So if anyone could shed any light on if the Navy would accept a valid CBAT it would be much appreciated as I don't fancy another trip up to Lincolnshire to do it, if it can be avoided!

Cheers,
Hawk

Yes.

Tests are identical but selection standards vary. RN must work with your current score as you cannot resit within 12 months.

[Wander00]

Aah, Hornchurch, followed by "Dead loss" House. Seems light years ago now.

[Hawk98]

Yes.

Tests are identical but selection standards vary. RN must work with your current score as you cannot resit within 12 months.

Brilliant - just what I was hoping to find out! Many thanks Bugs

[Pontius Navigator]

Aah, Hornchurch, followed by "Dead loss" House. Seems light years ago now.

All I remember of that nightmare was the beds that the old batmen took a delight in making impossible to get in. The sheets and blankets were so tight you needed two to pull them apart.

[Phantom84]

Hey all, I’m going through the processes now to become an ACO. Just wondering if there are any active ones on here that I could chat with to get some more info etc?

Cheers!

[Pontius Navigator]

Phantom, where, UK or Oz? There is a separate RAAF thread.

[WingsofRoffa]

Please could somebody give me a summary of these exercises on IOT? There doesn't seem to be an awful lot about them online more than what i've found -

T1

Dynamic Edge

First Step - 36 hours camping away from Cranwell, basic military skills in the field

Sharp Edge - More advanced military skills? How long does it last etc?

T2

MilAid - simulated military aid to civilians scenario - what does this entail?

Vital Edge - more advanced leads?

T3

Decisive Edge - simulated HQ air ops planning ?

[flyingscotsman2018]

I've the OASC in April 2018 and I've done a bit of research, is there any up to date information on the RAF OASC?

The only thing I am concerned about is the individual planning exercise.

If you don't perform well in the individual planning exercise however you've performed very well in every thing else, do they make the pass or fail decision based on all tasks collectively? Or is it a fail automatically if you don't perform well in the individual planning exercise?

[Sky Sports]

Scotsman

Sorry, I can't help you with your questions, but can I ask you one?
Your OASC is in April, but when did you first apply? I'm trying to get a rough idea of how long the 'first walking through the door' to OASC process takes nowadays.

[camelspyyder]

The point of the "individual planning exercise" (or whatever) is not that you can spend from now until April planning it. It's about how do you react when set a task? Can you solve a problem, then make and execute a plan inside a deadline?

Similarly, for the earlier poster who wanted a 6 month head start on all the practical exercises during IOT. Each exercise period contains dozens of scenarios. How would he or she know which to prepare for? It would take weeks to make plans for every eventuality. Why not spend those weeks more productively, perhaps getting fit so your physical strength will increase and improve your resistance to fatigue, your mental ability and resolve.

Even before attending IOT, or even OASC, you need to demonstrate that you can prioritise and be as well prepared as possible. Worry about the stuff you can improve or prepare for, not that which you can't.
The closed book exams or short notice tasks are are just that - you won't know what is required until you get the briefing.

[Pontius Navigator]

If you don't perform well in the individual planning exercise however you've performed very well in every thing else, do they make the pass or fail decision based on all tasks collectively? Or is it a fail automatically if you don't perform well in the individual planning exercise?

There are levels performance from abysmal through could be better to outstanding. You might produce an abysmal performance in one area and much better across the rest of the tasks or an fairly average across the board. Who would you pick?

As CS says, work at what can be improved in the time available.

As a cockshy I would say that leadership is the biggest challenge.

[muppetofthenorth]

Similarly, for the earlier poster who wanted a 6 month head start on all the practical exercises during IOT. Each exercise period contains dozens of scenarios. How would he or she know which to prepare for?

It's not the case that they want to know the plans of each exercise scenario, it's more that during the OASC interview you're expected to know the timetable of IOT, which exercise is coming up, and what that exercise tests.

Yes, they all test leadership, but you're expected to know the difference in scale and expectation between the ex at the end of term 1, at the beginning of term 2, end of term 2, and end of term 3, and how they all fit together.

They're not looking for the answers to the exercises, more the ethos behind them all.

[Bugs to forty]

Scotsman

I've the OASC in April 2018 and I've done a bit of research, is there any up to date information on the RAF OASC?

The only thing I am concerned about is the individual planning exercise.

If you don't perform well in the individual planning exercise however you've performed very well in every thing else, do they make the pass or fail decision based on all tasks collectively? Or is it a fail automatically if you don't perform well in the individual planning exercise?

When you arrive at OASC you will be told not to worry if you think an exercise has gone badly; instead, you will be told to move on and get on with the next task. They tell you this because as long as you get through to the Interview your selection chances will usually be based on your overall performance (amongst other things).

MOTN

It's not the case that they want to know the plans of each exercise scenario, it's more that during the OASC interview you're expected to know the timetable of IOT, which exercise is coming up, and what that exercise tests.

Yes, they all test leadership, but you're expected to know the difference in scale and expectation between the ex at the end of term 1, at the beginning of term 2, end of term 2, and end of term 3, and how they all fit together.

They're not looking for the answers to the exercises, more the ethos behind them all.

Agreed. Comprehensive knowledge of the syllabus, throughout a training pipeline, is absolutely part of displaying enthusiasm towards a candidate's application for commission.

[camelspyyder]

It's not the case that they want to know the plans of each exercise scenario, it's more that during the OASC interview you're expected to know the timetable of IOT, which exercise is coming up, and what that exercise tests.

Yes, they all test leadership, but you're expected to know the difference in scale and expectation between the ex at the end of term 1, at the beginning of term 2, end of term 2, and end of term 3, and how they all fit together.

They're not looking for the answers to the exercises, more the ethos behind them all.

Sorry, but they just sound like they want spoon-feeding to me. Having taught military aviators for the last quarter of a century, it is a trait I have noted displayed more and more frequently by my students in more recent times.

[muppetofthenorth]

Sorry, but they just sound like they want spoon-feeding to me. Having taught military aviators for the last quarter of a century, it is a trait I have noted displayed more and more frequently by my students in more recent times.

They're looking for assistance with the answers for questions they're going to be asked in the interview - answers which at the moment seem to change every year as they rename exercises.

My IOT was 8 years ago and only 1 of the exercises is called by the same name.

Yes, people can go looking for resources online which will give the information, but you need to know something about what you're looking for. Old resources will refer to old exercises but with no acknowledgement that they're old: mentioning these in the interview will 'lose' marks, but how is the candidate reasonably expected to know the difference?

I think you've misunderstood the original request.

But you're not wrong about people wanting things spoonfed.

[MrBernoulli]

But you're not wrong about people wanting things spoonfed.

Being spoonfed is definitely a growing trait amongst the younger generations, who have grown up with the internet and personal electronic devices. They feel they only have to place a question in a search engine, and the world is their lobster! It is, in a way, but that isn't how real life works - you can't be a pilot just by gathering answers from Google.

It is painful to watch airline pilot candidates attempt to exchange info, on these very Forums, about how to do this aptitude test, or that verbal reasoning test, when undergoing selection with various airlines or the military. In their cotton-wool-soft, everyone-is-a-winner worlds they clearly don't understand that they are supposed to be competing with each other for limited employment places! :rolleyes:

[muppetofthenorth]

they clearly don't understand that they are supposed to be competing with each other for limited employment places!

When you arrive at, for instance, OASC to take part in RAF selection they tell you rather explicitly that you're not in competition with those sat next to you...

If you're in their seats, who are you going to believe; am anonymous voice on a forum, or the boarding officer stood in front of you?

[MrBernoulli]

When you arrive at, for instance, OASC to take part in RAF selection they tell you rather explicitly that you're not in competition with those sat next to you...

If you're in their seats, who are you going to believe; am anonymous voice on a forum, or the boarding officer stood in front of you?
If you choose to believe that, that is up to you. Having been involved in selection of service personnel, I am certain they were competing for places. And the same exists in the airlines.

[Melchett01]

When you arrive at, for instance, OASC to take part in RAF selection they tell you rather explicitly that you're not in competition with those sat next to you...

If you're in their seats, who are you going to believe; am anonymous voice on a forum, or the boarding officer stood in front of you?

Depends if you believe everything you’re told. It’s a nice one liner to potentially reduce tension so you hopefully get to see the real applicant, but if it really were true then everybody who met the minimum requirements would be offered a place.

As for the question on the individual exercise. Don’t worry, you don’t need to get the answer right to pass - that’s only part of it. They want to see your thought process and how you respond to pressure when challenged - they will throw a spanner in the works if it looks like you’ve got it right first time out. Just approach it with a clear head, be logical in your thinking, careful with your maths and try to be confident in your delivery. But when you get in and they ask which of the characters you are in the scenario, there is only one right answer if you really do want to be an officer

[muppetofthenorth]

Depends if you believe everything you’re told. It’s a nice one liner to potentially reduce tension so you hopefully get to see the real applicant, but if it really were true then everybody who met the minimum requirements would be offered a place.

You misunderstand my meaning.

I'm not saying there isn't a competition, more that when you arrive at OASC you're not in competition with those sat next to you.
It seems a deliberate ploy to mix the candidates in each syndicate - you don't often see more than 2 of any branch within those 6.

As a pilot candidate, are you really in competition with an Int or Eng candidate?

You are in competition with candidates 'generally', but usually with not the immediate candidates in your syndicate.

[Pontius Navigator]

MOTN, exactly. You are in competition for the number of slots, be it Int, Logistics, Pilot or whatever that year.

Miss PN2 was a strong candidate who wanted Int (her degree was relevant). She was privately interviewed post-OASC to see if she would accept Supply where she would be assured of an offer.

Later, as the overall president at OASC, she had to advise Boarding Officers that there was no presumption that anyone in their syndicate would be accepting and that all might fail. OTOH they might have an above average number of suitable applicants.

[downsizer]

A lot depends on your Branch choice. Going for a Branch that is struggling to recruit means the standard of entry will be less than an oversubscribed branch..

[downsizer]

I'm trying to get a rough idea of how long the 'first walking through the door' to OASC process takes nowadays.

Depends on your Branch choice to an extent as certain Branches are prioritised ahead of others at times. And how quick you get through medical.

[WingsofRoffa]

Anybody here involved in OASC and know when the next review is for Pilot's in the sift?

[GAPilot261087]

Apologies if this has been covered a few times but can anyone give me a good indication on RAF pilot recruitment status for 2018 ?

I am currently a PPL holder and commercial ATPL student. I have been going towards commercial flying for the last few years and because I had to make a difficult choice at a time of all the defence cuts years ago when choosing which path to follow.

I have however always had the RAF stuck in the back of my mind for those years for the operational flying and lifestyle side of it which can be equally as valuable as a big pay check. That being said, there is a lot of good benefits for airlines just now so I'm balanced on the RAF vs Airlines argument.

I have already been told to pop in and see the recruitment office and have spoke with recruiters at airshows but I am just hoping for a bit of inside first hand info other than the "anything is possible" and "give it a shot" I usually get told. Any info about what aircraft are needing the most pilots over the next few years , terms and conditions and pilot retention levels etc

If anyone can also advise also how the process of streaming works in terms of preference for what you would like to fly, I'd be grateful!

Cheers!

[teeteringhead]

Just a wild guess - but if 261087 is your d.o.b. then you are too old I'm afraid.......

[TheAntler]

Would one be best just to use the names of the exercises on the current IOT booklet? Are they correct? Thanks

[GAPilot261087]

Just a wild guess - but if 261087 is your d.o.b. then you are too old I'm afraid.......

Negative, It is a unique code for something related to the airline job I work in that I can never forget lol! I'm 21...

[BarrierBreaker]

Hello, I am new to the forum and look forward to sharing some great information!

[NDW]

Evening all;

It’s been a while since I’ve posted.

I’ve decided (having gone through it time and time again) to give myself one more chance for WSOp. Having studied, revised and practiced for CBAT style questions - I feel more prepared than the other two previous attempts and I’m going to give this another good go. What will be will be. I’ve done all I can revision wise and I appreciate there’s some who’ll say you can’t revise or what not but I’ve found various resources have helped me massively.

I’m due back at Cranwell in early Sep. I’ll report back then.

Until then, for all of you who have supported me through-out my previous applications (and probably asking stupid questions) - I thank you all! I appreciate you all hear the same questions asked time and time again and I know there’s only so much you can help a ‘wannabe’ but it’s genuinely appreciated!

Thank you!!

NDW

[Melchett01]

Well good luck NDW, if they gave places for tenacity and determination you’d be there. All you can do is prepare and do do your best on the day; if you can look in the mirror the next day and say you gave it everything you have no complaints.

But remember sometimes perseverance does pay off. My first ever AEF trip in Cadets was in a Chippie with a FJ pilot; between the 2 of them he and his Nav clocked up a good half dozen attempts. So you just never know.

[NDW]

Good afternoon all,

Thought I’d come back with an update reference my most recent CBAT attendance. Unfortunately (quite a common word with me now) I didn’t pass for WSOp, however I achieved the highest score out of my three attempts and scored higher in areas I had previously struggled in. The two tests I didn’t pass for, annoyingly, I passed last year. But, such is life.

I’ve now decided upon going in for a ground trade (something I should have done years ago but was too stubborn to contemplate it) and ‘hopefully’ work my way up.

I’ve got a few ground trades in mind that I’m particularly interested in with the hope that after the mandatory commitment time for the role has surpassed and the opportunities are there that I’d like to consider NCA again. But; this is way in the future and something that is now at the back of my mind - most importantly I want to join up ASAP.

Thanks for everyone’s time, advice, positivity, patience and kind words in helping me try and achieve my Plan A role - it’s not to be ‘just yet’.

Cheers!

[Melchett01]

Good afternoon all,

Thought I’d come back with an update reference my most recent CBAT attendance. Unfortunately (quite a common word with me now) I didn’t pass for WSOp, however I achieved the highest score out of my three attempts and scored higher in areas I had previously struggled in. The two tests I didn’t pass for, annoyingly, I passed last year. But, such is life.

I’ve now decided upon going in for a ground trade (something I should have done years ago but was too stubborn to contemplate it) and ‘hopefully’ work my way up.

I’ve got a few ground trades in mind that I’m particularly interested in with the hope that after the mandatory commitment time for the role has surpassed and the opportunities are there that I’d like to consider NCA again. But; this is way in the future and something that is now at the back of my mind - most importantly I want to join up ASAP.

Thanks for everyone’s time, advice, positivity, patience and kind words in helping me try and achieve my Plan A role - it’s not to be ‘just yet’.

Cheers!




Well nobody can say you haven't tried. I've met so many folk over the years that say 'I almost became a pilot, but ....' and then trot out some lame reason for not even trying. That isn't you, so chin up and crack on. You may not realise it now, but your preparation and experience will stand you in good stead. And in leadership terms, having gone through a rough patch invariably (or I believe) is a good thing in any leader as it brings with it a sense of perspective and empathy when others are struggling.

Depending on other factors, all isn't lost and there are still opportunities to serve with and even on aircraft outside of the 'traditional' Fg branches. I don't know what the future holds for the E3 fleet, but ABMs - or whatever we are calling them this week - operate as mission crew down the back and Linguist offers some really interesting operational and flying options. Then there are some engineering trades that fly away with the AT fleets (or at least used to, but AT isn't my area so don't quote me now), and of course there are the Aeromed, Movers and Steward areas if it is just about getting airborne rather than operating the aircraft.

Don't jump at the first thing that's offered - the Careers Office have quotas to fill! Take a little time to consider your options and whether what is being offered really fits your aspirations, aptitudes and personality rather than just ticking a box for a quota. There is definitely an NDW shaped hole in the RAF system, its just a case of finding it.

[camelspyyder]

NDW.

You may wish to consider Int Analyst as a trade. IAs are already active on at least 2 ISTAR fleets as crew, and one of those fleets is about to grow enormously in the next 5 to 10 years.

CS

[NDW]

NDW.

You may wish to consider Int Analyst as a trade. IAs are already active on at least 2 ISTAR fleets as crew, and one of those fleets is about to grow enormously in the next 5 to 10 years.

CS

Thanks CS,

I've transferred my WSOp application over for Intel Analyst and awaiting the next steps. It's a role i'd previously considered way back when I'd also wanted WSOp. I'm ready and raring to go!!

TVM.

[NDW]

Well nobody can say you haven't tried. I've met so many folk over the years that say 'I almost became a pilot, but ....' and then trot out some lame reason for not even trying. That isn't you, so chin up and crack on. You may not realise it now, but your preparation and experience will stand you in good stead. And in leadership terms, having gone through a rough patch invariably (or I believe) is a good thing in any leader as it brings with it a sense of perspective and empathy when others are struggling.

Depending on other factors, all isn't lost and there are still opportunities to serve with and even on aircraft outside of the 'traditional' Fg branches. I don't know what the future holds for the E3 fleet, but ABMs - or whatever we are calling them this week - operate as mission crew down the back and Linguist offers some really interesting operational and flying options. Then there are some engineering trades that fly away with the AT fleets (or at least used to, but AT isn't my area so don't quote me now), and of course there are the Aeromed, Movers and Steward areas if it is just about getting airborne rather than operating the aircraft.

Don't jump at the first thing that's offered - the Careers Office have quotas to fill! Take a little time to consider your options and whether what is being offered really fits your aspirations, aptitudes and personality rather than just ticking a box for a quota. There is definitely an NDW shaped hole in the RAF system, its just a case of finding it.

Melchett01, Thanks very much for your reply. I gave it my all, my noggin just isn't up to the requirements with what they were looking for. One positive I took away was that my Airborne SDT score had doubled since my very first attempt (it was by far the weakest element of my first and probably second CBAT attempt - so the revision and practising had paid off) so with that I was happy. It was just two tests out of the whole battery which annoyingly I'd passed well in last year - but, never mind, onwards and upwards.

I've applied for Intel Analyst but have interests in Photographer or even an Engineering role (all dependant on my Airman/Airwoman test scores etc).

Thanks again for your time, advice and support!

Nathan

[Melchett01]

Nathan,

I have a few friends in the Int world and they are constantly deployed on Ops all around the world, sometimes to completely random places with not an aircraft in sight, doing jobs that the Careers Office couldn’t imagine let alone tell you about. They never seem bored and are some of the most operationally experienced people outside of a cockpit I know. I don’t think you’d be disappointed with it as a choice.

[BVRAAM]

Dear all,
Firstly I apologise for the massive screenshot. I didn't know of a way to make the graphic smaller on the forum.

I am currently on an Access to HE course and, as this document suggests, it is accepted by the Royal Air Force. I will be quite honest, I have no intention of going to University, I don't have the time for University because I want to wear light blue as soon as I possibly can, and I don't want to go anyway. Neither do I have the time for A Levels which are two years. I expect to be asked "Why?" at interview, and of course, I'll be honest.

Anyway, my question is this: In order to achieve the equivalent of 2 A Levels at Grade C, what is the minimum number of units that must be passed?

I intend on going for the full 12, and I shouldn't have any problems with 11 of them. One of the units is a Psychology exam, and that's the one that is causing me concern at the moment.

Cheers.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1051x811/rafrecruitment_c88abd731f2e8f6be96018533478f26386fa0b3a.png

[muppetofthenorth]

From looking at that form; 12.

You need 2 C grades as a minimum, which means you're looking at the column to the far right.
You're doing Access to HE, which is the bottom row.

The two meet at the very bottom right.

[BVRAAM]

From looking at that form; 12.

You need 2 C grades as a minimum, which means you're looking at the column to the far right.
You're doing Access to HE, which is the bottom row.

The two meet at the very bottom right.
Thanks for that! :)

[Norman Goering]

Just noticed that the latest update on the careers page says that the need to wear glasses/contacts is no longer an issue to apply for Pilot, whereas previously it always was. Any ideas when this changed?

Separately, anyone on the inside able to discuss the interpretation of residency requirements as it is rather baffling.

British citizen, born and raised. Spent two years in Ukraine doing volunteer work, now fluent in Russian and fairly fluent in Ukrainian. Came back to UK just over a year ago but told no go for aircrew or Int based roles for 2 years yet no such barrier for all branches of RN and Army.

An FOI request for the relevant PAM showed discretion can be applied but not who makes that call. Given the specialist nature of the decision, does the recruiter need to make the recommendations up the CoC or is it a decision made at the careers office?

[muppetofthenorth]

Eyesight bit changed a while back to bring it into line with the RN.

But that's just the minimum requirement... The standard to be competitive at application, however..

[Wader2]

I believe the residency requirement was set as it was more difficult to do background security checks on people who had lived overseas. I would speculate that discretion might be more likely where there are existing security agreements, say Australia. I can't imagine a year in Russia would be seen in the same light.

I don't know why the three services have different requirements. This could be historic as I think the RAF had more officers in sensitive posts than Army or Navy
and it is easier and safer (for your career) to carry on as before.

[downsizer]

Just noticed that the latest update on the careers page says that the need to wear glasses/contacts is no longer an issue to apply for Pilot, whereas previously it always was. Any ideas when this changed?

Separately, anyone on the inside able to discuss the interpretation of residency requirements as it is rather baffling.

British citizen, born and raised. Spent two years in Ukraine doing volunteer work, now fluent in Russian and fairly fluent in Ukrainian. Came back to UK just over a year ago but told no go for aircrew or Int based roles for 2 years yet no such barrier for all branches of RN and Army.

An FOI request for the relevant PAM showed discretion can be applied but not who makes that call. Given the specialist nature of the decision, does the recruiter need to make the recommendations up the CoC or is it a decision made at the careers office?


The decision is not made at the careers office.

[Sky Sports]

You read in the media how the three services are struggling to recruit at the moment, especially the British Army, but I was wondering how the RAF and Navy are fairing with the recruitment of aircrew? I don't for one minute think they are so desperate that they'll accept anyone, but does anyone know how many applicants both currently get for every aircrew position?

[muppetofthenorth]

You read in the media how the three services are struggling to recruit at the moment, especially the British Army, but I was wondering how the RAF and Navy are fairing with the recruitment of aircrew? I don't for one minute think they are so desperate that they'll accept anyone, but does anyone know how many applicants both currently get for every aircrew position?
Far more than they can handle.

Pilot slots are about to be massively reduced as MFTS fails to deliver the throughput needed. Many applicants spend months waiting for medicals, OASC dates, and then spend even longer in the Sift.

It's a prestige role, and an aspirational one, it's always going to be over-subscribed. Actual numbers, though (rather than anecdotes), will be hard to come by.

[The...Bird]

Far more than they can handle.

Pilot slots are about to be massively reduced as MFTS fails to deliver the throughput needed. Many applicants spend months waiting for medicals, OASC dates, and then spend even longer in the Sift.

It's a prestige role, and an aspirational one, it's always going to be over-subscribed. Actual numbers, though (rather than anecdotes), will be hard to come by.

For Pilot the number of applicants are, and have been for years, per year in the thousands, probably last year 4000+ applied.
For the past 5 years the number of Pilots getting selected for each IOT has been about 20. So around 100 Pilots being selected a year. Given the problems with MFTS now only 4 Pilots per IOT so no more than 25 per year.

[Pontius Navigator]

So what happens to the 75 that were suitable and entered IOT as would be pilots?

Is 25 per year sufficient to feed the frontline?

How does the system manage if 8% or 12% fail to graduate as pilot?

[The...Bird]

So what happens to the 75 that were suitable and entered IOT as would be pilots?

Is 25 per year sufficient to feed the frontline?

How does the system manage if 8% or 12% fail to graduate as pilot?

Only about 25 are being selected to go onto IOTs each year now.

[Pontius Navigator]

The Bird, understood but what about the 75 selected that don't go to IOT?

What is the impact of failure to graduate? Just one failure is 4%.

[Sky Sports]

I'm just trying to get my head around those figures ...... 4000+ apply, yet going forward, only 25 'potential' pilots are going to IOT each year. Presumably, the 4000+ who apply have all met the basic academic status, so they have a 1 in 160 chance of passing OASC?

I thought they were trying to increase the number of pilots for the proposed extra squadrons?

If some do get chopped along the way, that leaves less than 25 actually making it to a front line squadron. How many pilots does the RAF have on its books and how many new pilots does it actually require each year?

Pilot slots are about to be massively reduced as MFTS fails to deliver the throughput needed.
I thought the solution was to send them to America on the NATO training program?

Is the Careers advice now, "Try the RN and Army first if you want to fly!"

[muppetofthenorth]

It'll be much fewer than 4,000 going through to OASC. Many won't pass the filter, many more won't pass the medical.

​​​​

[Sky Sports]

Thank you for the reply Muppet. :ok:

Do you have an idea, no matter how rough, of the number of pilot applicants who do make it to OASC each year? I just need an idea so that I can give realistic careers advice to people who are thinking about it.

[muppetofthenorth]

Thank you for the reply Muppet. :ok:

Do you have an idea, no matter how rough, of the number of pilot applicants who do make it to OASC each year? I just need an idea so that I can give realistic careers advice to people who are thinking about it.
Not really.
It'll fluctuate all the time for damnedest of reasons, none of which will be helpful to your prospective candidates.

And the wider point is if they're put off by statistics, then their heart probably isn't in it enough to make it through all the other hoops. It is, by its very nature, a role for only the select few. If they want it, they have to believe they're good enough to be amongst that few.
And if they believe they're good enough, it doesn't matter how many others are applying.

[Pontius Navigator]

I have a nephew that was rejected at his initial recruitment test.

I believe the test begins with the run and then the floor exercises, press ups and sit-ups. Can any one tell me if the run and floor exercises are intended to be continuous or whether there is a rest period after the run.

[muppetofthenorth]

I have a nephew that was rejected at his initial recruitment test.

I believe the test begins with the run and then the floor exercises, press ups and sit-ups. Can any one tell me if the run and floor exercises are intended to be continuous or whether there is a rest period after the run.
A rest period, but no more than a minute or two.

[Pontius Navigator]

MotN, says no rest break. That is probably consistent with your short break as :organization' time.

[downsizer]

I've got to be frank here, if he's struggling with the PJFT he has serious fitness issues.

[Pontius Navigator]

I've got to be frank here, if he's struggling with the PJFT he has serious fitness issues.
DS, he is your typically gawky teen with well developed thumbs and pale complexion.

From what he said when I saw him at Christmas he can run. Now I suspect he may have really run hard rather than just run hard enough. A lesson they all have to learn so they can show improvement.

[teeteringhead]

Upper body and core strength is often the problem, and running is no real indicator -particularly of course for upper body.

I recall an officer I knew when the Fitness Test was introduced. He ran marathons but struggled to do a single press up. Built like a racing snake, but with arms and legs like pipe-cleaners.

Was he fit? Discuss.

[Pontius Navigator]

TTH, we had a Nimrod captain who also ran marathons but couldn't meet the run times.

The Service is looking for all round fitness not for Geoff Capes or Roger Bannisters. At least they don't ask recruits to load a truck with sandbags :)

[Bugs to forty]

TTH, we had a Nimrod captain who also ran marathons but couldn't meet the run times.

The Service is looking for all round fitness not for Geoff Capes or Roger Bannisters. At least they don't ask recruits to load a truck with sandbags :)

Candidates are advised not to go all out on the run BECAUSE it is quickly followed by the press-ups and sit-ups. The better they do, the more it helps their chance of selection but there is no sympathy for failures... this part of selection is completely within the gift of the candidate.

It is important to reach the basic fitness standard before joining to give assurance that cadets have some resilience; ie, they do not break as soon as they’re asked to carry a stretcher/rucksack!

[NDW]

From what i've heard, the press ups and sit ups are approx 1 minute after the 1.5 mile run. I will confirm this next month when I partake in mine.

Cheers.

[Bugs to forty]

From what i've heard, the press ups and sit ups are approx 1 minute after the 1.5 mile run. I will confirm this next month when I partake in mine.

Cheers.

The 1.5 mile run was taken out of the SFT years ago. The running element is the bleep test. Your AFCO should have made this clear.

[Pontius Navigator]

The 1.5 mile run was taken out of the SFT years ago. The running element is the bleep test. Your AFCO should have made this clear.
I believe it is 2.4km on the treadmill with a specific time limit. The object us to meet that limit so I would expect the machine is set to a speed that will avoid the candidate from over achieving and exhausting themselves on the run.

Weather is not a factor and the test is truly identical for all.

I understand that the test is now contracted out and would guess that not all testing centres could conduct a bleep test.

[Bugs to forty]

I believe it is 2.4km on the treadmill with a specific time limit. The object us to meet that limit so I would expect the machine is set to a speed that will avoid the candidate from over achieving and exhausting themselves on the run.

Weather is not a factor and the test is truly identical for all.

I understand that the test is now contracted out and would guess that not all testing centres could conduct a bleep test.
Well that certainly isn’t my understanding of the current selection fitness test used at OASC!

[Pontius Navigator]

Well that certainly isn’t my understanding of the current selection fitness test used at OASC!
My Op related to airman entry and the PJFT not the OASC test

https://www.raf.mod.uk/recruitment/media/2231/20170117-pub772-fit_for_action.pdf

[Bugs to forty]

My Op related to airman entry and the PJFT not the OASC test


I’m sure you can understand my confusion given this is the OASC page.

[Pontius Navigator]

I’m sure you can understand my confusion given this is the OASC page.
Yes, apologies. I wonder whether the would be OASC Candidate has to do PJFT first?

[downsizer]

OASC applicants also do a PJFT.

[RearEntry]

So my boy went to Cranwell in September --- he's still no heard yeah or nay. In my very humble opinion, that defines an organisation that is FUBR

[Pontius Navigator]

So my boy went to Cranwell in September --- he's still no heard yeah or nay. In my very humble opinion, that defines an organisation that is FUBR
Has he chased them up?

[WingsofRoffa]

So my boy went to Cranwell in September --- he's still no heard yeah or nay. In my very humble opinion, that defines an organisation that is FUBR

I went to Cranwell in February 2018, I received an offer this year.

[Bugs to forty]

I went to Cranwell in February 2018, I received an offer this year.

Congratulations. I sincerely hope that you had adequate communication with OASC during those 12 months ‘in the hold’?

[Pontius Navigator]

Congratulations. I sincerely hope that you had adequate communication with OASC during those 12 months ‘in the hold’?
According to my source, if not offered a place on the next intake you should be told you will be considered for the following intake. Once again, if not offered a place but still suitable you should be told you will again be considered.

In other words you should have a regular update from the RAF.

[BVRAAM]

What are the opportunities like for those who are not pilots, but wish to become pilots while currently serving?

[Bugs to forty]

What are the opportunities like for those who are not pilots, but wish to become pilots while currently serving?
It’s just the same as for any other DE. Being mindful of age limitations, all they have to do is apply online. They have also had tremendous teamwork opportunities; are probably fairly confident; and have evidence of commitment to the Service. That all helps.

[BVRAAM]

It’s just the same as for any other DE. Being mindful of age limitations, all they have to do is apply online. They have also had tremendous teamwork opportunities; are probably fairly confident; and have evidence of commitment to the Service. That all helps.

Are the age limits different for those already serving, like they used to be?

[Bugs to forty]

Are the age limits different for those already serving, like they used to be?
No. It’s all equal now.

[BVRAAM]

No. It’s all equal now.

Wonderful. :\

What about for non-pilot aircrew?

[Sky Sports]

Hi guys, I need some advise so I've hijacked my dads account to ask.

I have been offered the opportunity to attend OASC to take the Pilot Aptitude Testing Battery as part of a flying scholarship selection process. The visit isn't mandatory and will not prejudice my application either way.
Since I will be applying to join the RAF as officer aircrew in the summer, I see this as an opportunity for a 'cheeky heads up' of Cranwell and the OASC weekend. However, it has been pointed out to me that if I attend, my score, good or bad, will remain valid for 12 months and I won't be able to reattend within that period.

If I go and get a good score, brilliant. That can sit on the system for when I apply later in the year.
If I go and get a bad score will this hold up my RAF application process?

I'm thinking that if I apply in June then the application process could take a while and I may not be asked to OASC until March next year anyway. In which case, it might be worth having a 'cheeky shot' at OASC at the end of this March.

Your thoughts please?

[camelspyyder]

It's good to know as early as you can whether you have pilot aptitude or not. That way you can replan your University and Career aspirations if required. For what it's worth, I passed Tests in Advance / Flying Scholarship Selection but a year later went for testing again and failed the medical. You just can't predict the future.

[Pontius Navigator]

I sought expert advice from a former OASC President. Her advice is if it is purely voluntary, don't do it. As you get older, to about 22, your scores should improve. Also you would not be doing all the tests.

[Bugs to forty]

I sought expert advice from a former OASC President. Her advice is if it is purely voluntary, don't do it. As you get older, to about 22, your scores should improve. Also you would not be doing all the tests.
I’m afraid I disagree. The sooner you can have a ‘cheeky shot’, the sooner you can have another go (12 months later) in support of an application if necessary. If you like your score, you keep it for 3 years; if you don’t, then submit a proper application later and have another go. This is pretty much how the UAS do it and it’s the currently recommended path. Good luck.

[Heisenb3rg]

Hi all,

Apologies if this has been covered but I can’t really find anything. I’m a civilian pilot RHS with a uk based loco that offers some very attractive part time contracts (14on/14off, 21on/7off etc).

Does anyone have any experience of, or know anyone who has taken part time at their airline and then joined the RAF Reserves as a pilot? Is this even possible given the nature of airline rosters / flying limits etc? Are there even any reserve flying positions available? I assume it gets difficult if you were to be deployed in terms of getting the time off from the airline.

My reason for asking is that I joined the airlines straight from flight school, which was straight from college, and I feel that something like this would add a lot to my career / life in general. (Essentially, although I absolutely love the job, and know I still have a lot to learn where I am currently, I can see the honeymoon period wearing off at some point and then the reality of airline flying / cruise monitoring kicking in).

Thanks in advance,

H

[WingsofRoffa]

Hi all,

Apologies if this has been covered but I can’t really find anything. I’m a civilian pilot RHS with a uk based loco that offers some very attractive part time contracts (14on/14off, 21on/7off etc).

Does anyone have any experience of, or know anyone who has taken part time at their airline and then joined the RAF Reserves as a pilot? Is this even possible given the nature of airline rosters / flying limits etc? Are there even any reserve flying positions available? I assume it gets difficult if you were to be deployed in terms of getting the time off from the airline.

My reason for asking is that I joined the airlines straight from flight school, which was straight from college, and I feel that something like this would add a lot to my career / life in general. (Essentially, although I absolutely love the job, and know I still have a lot to learn where I am currently, I can see the honeymoon period wearing off at some point and then the reality of airline flying / cruise monitoring kicking in).

Thanks in advance,

H

I am sorry to disappoint but the RAF doesn’t recruit reserve pilots. The RAF can barely get its regular force pilots through training, from whom they will receive the return of a full career.

Before somebody chimes in, the Army does have a reserve pilot. However, said pilot has a vast career of military aviation behind him.

Why dont you take up gliding or aeros?

[Heisenb3rg]

I am sorry to disappoint but the RAF doesn’t recruit reserve pilots. The RAF can barely get its regular force pilots through training, from whom they will receive the return of a full career.

Before somebody chimes in, the Army does have a reserve pilot. However, said pilot has a vast career of military aviation behind him.

Why dont you take up gliding or aeros?

Maybe I’ve misunderstood but doesn’t AirTanker have some sponsored reservists flying part G-Reg ops and part RAF ops?

[Sky Sports]

Morning all

I've just had my P2 presentation, which was going great until they said that because of the backlog they are taking very very few pilots at the moment!
Anyway, I have my CBAT testing at Cranwell in September and was wondering if anyone knows of any good software or app's that I could practice on. I fully appreciate that its either something that you can do or not, and that's the purpose of aptitude testing, I'm just looking for something to sharpen up the reflexes etc.

[Flopgun]

Yup, only 7 of us for October, and 3 for the next sift. Really tight times at the moment, but don't let it put you off.

[AirCon5]

Is that 7 direct entrants in October?

[Flopgun]

Is that 7 direct entrants in October?

Correct, 3 "Pilot, 4 "RPAS"

[AirCon5]

Correct, 3 "Pilot, 4 "RPAS"

Thanks for the info, I wonder how long these people have been waiting to get one of those slots. This year has been the worst for a while it seems.

[Flopgun]

Thanks for the info, I wonder how long these people have been waiting to get one of those slots. This year has been the worst for a while it seems.

It'll be 2 years 2 months when I walk through the door, I know others have waited mich longer and some have just walked in. But it depends on scores, I got rejected the first time so that set me back.

[Countdown begins]

question...

[AirCon5]

Do you think ages has anything to do with it? Surely some people might be too old but the time they've finished their stint waiting. Maybe they get pushed through?

[AirCon5]

It'll be 2 years 2 months when I walk through the door, I know others have waited mich longer and some have just walked in. But it depends on scores, I got rejected the first time so that set me back.

Congrats on the offer by the way. When you say 2 years 2 months, is that since walking through the AFCO's door or a later stage? Over 2 years from starting application to getting in still seems exceptionally long, but maybe it is standard over the past few years.

[Hawk98]

Hi all,

Don't post on here often but thought I would for once. Long story short I initially applied to the RAF around two and a half years ago for Pilot/WSO, went off to Cranwell and passed CBAT for all roles. Next was my filter interview, at which point the Sgt who held the interview suggested that I come back in three months to do it again, as he felt that I didn't have the necessary 'life experience' to make it through the latter stage of OASC being 18 at the time. Anyway got busy working at Jaguar and applied again a month or so ago, but this time, whilst booked at the AFCO for my P2 presentation next week, they would like me to complete the Airman Selection Test despite not applying for any airman roles - is this standard practice now from anyone else's experience? Assuming it filters out anyone who doesn't make the grade without the expense of sending them up to Lincolnshire?

Thanks,
Hawk

[Radley]

Hi Hawk, was your age and had the same options given to me, although about 40 years ago.
Although I had passed Pilot/Nav I was asked if I would like to take the NCO Aircrew selection tests.
36-years later having spent a career in the back end of a noisy aircraft I retired having had a mostly
rewarding and enjoyable career. I think it gives the selectors more options especially as nowadays the
number of places available are so few.

[Bugs to forty]

whilst booked at the AFCO for my P2 presentation next week, they would like me to complete the Airman Selection Test despite not applying for any airman roles - is this standard practice now from anyone else's experience?

Yes. It now gives the AFCO greater knowledge of your potential if you are not suited to your first choice.

[NDW]

Hi all,

Don't post on here often but thought I would for once. Long story short I initially applied to the RAF around two and a half years ago for Pilot/WSO, went off to Cranwell and passed CBAT for all roles. Next was my filter interview, at which point the Sgt who held the interview suggested that I come back in three months to do it again, as he felt that I didn't have the necessary 'life experience' to make it through the latter stage of OASC being 18 at the time. Anyway got busy working at Jaguar and applied again a month or so ago, but this time, whilst booked at the AFCO for my P2 presentation next week, they would like me to complete the Airman Selection Test despite not applying for any airman roles - is this standard practice now from anyone else's experience? Assuming it filters out anyone who doesn't make the grade without the expense of sending them up to Lincolnshire?

Thanks,
Hawk

When I first applied for WSOp back in 2010, WSOp use to be part of the Airman Selection Test along with SNCO ATC etc.

Not sure if they'd ever reintroduce that (of if they have) but when I sat my AST (granted a year ago) there was no indication they had.

Best of luck.

[Ormeside28]

Joined up on 9 March 1942, my eighteenth birthday. Two weeks later interviewed in Birmingham, medical and number. Told to go home and await instructions. Finally called to Air Crew Receiving Centre. (Aceyarsesee). At Lords Cricket Ground on
23 November 1942. Six weeks in London, drill, drill, more drill. Uniform tailored,!!. Lectures etc, before ITW in Newquay on 8 January 1943. So even in wartime there were delays. Happy days!

[Hawk98]

Thanks for the replies chaps, pleased to say I passed the AST today for all roles and will be heading back to Cranwell at the tail end of this month for more CBAT related fun!

[Sky Sports]

MEDICAL

Are the initial aircrew medicals still carried out at Cranwell by RAF doctors, or has this been passed back to AFCO's to arrange with local surgeries?

[Hawk98]

Still at Cranwell for aircrew, upstairs in the OASC building (unless anything’s changed from last month) 👍

[Sky Sports]

Hi all,

I was wondering if anybody had any feedback on the new one day OASC that was introduced last September? Is it working in terms of selecting the right candidates, compared to the old OASC? Is the percentage pass rate the same as before?
Secondly, how many pilots are being taken on at the moment? Has the number risen from the low numbers mentioned in post #1162?

Thanks in advance.

[The...Bird]

I know that there's only 3 pilots on the January IOT and 3 on the March IOT
Not looking good...

[Bugs to forty]

Hi all,

I was wondering if anybody had any feedback on the new one day OASC that was introduced last September? Is it working in terms of selecting the right candidates, compared to the old OASC? Is the percentage pass rate the same as before?
Secondly, how many pilots are being taken on at the moment? Has the number risen from the low numbers mentioned in post #1162?

Thanks in advance.

The 1-Day Board has been a very timely overhaul and little has changed in the methodology of how candidates are selected.
“Percentage pass rate” is irrelevant because it depends on the branches chosen and the annual ITT.
Pilot numbers may still appear low but need to increase very soon to meet demand.

[Sky Sports]

Pilot numbers may still appear low but need to increase very soon to meet demand.

The number of pilots loaded onto IOT will probably still stay low until the 350 officers on hold awaiting courses is reduced!

[Bugs to forty]

The number of pilots loaded onto IOT will probably still stay low until the 350 officers on hold awaiting courses is reduced!
Reduced, yes, but not that long now because not all holding pilots are at the same stage.

[Sky Sports]

In prepping for my upcoming OASC, I would like to familiarise myself with the Behavioural Anchored Rating Scale that the assessors use to rate a candidates performance.
I have found the grade standards for the Oral Communication competency, but can't find them for the other 4 competencies - Teamwork, Influence, Problem Solving and Confidence & Resilience.
Please could you tell me if these are available publicly, and if they are, kindly point me in the right direction?

[muppetofthenorth]

In prepping for my upcoming OASC, I would like to familiarise myself with the Behavioural Anchored Rating Scale that the assessors use to rate a candidates performance.
I have found the grade standards for the Oral Communication competency, but can't find them for the other 4 competencies - Teamwork, Influence, Problem Solving and Confidence & Resilience.
Please could you tell me if these are available publicly, and if they are, kindly point me in the right direction?
Unless you know someone who works at OASC and is being uncharacteristically open, it's not something that's usually available publicly.

[Sky Sports]

I’ve read on another forum that Cranwell have cancelled all OASC dates for the foreseeable future. Is this right? And is halting recruitment a good idea at this time?

[downsizer]

And is halting recruitment a good idea at this time?

What do you think?

[Sky Sports]

What do you think?

I think that given the high probability of the RAF having to carry out MACA duties soon, on top of their 'normal' work and commitments, manpower overstretch could become a problem.

I think that if the organisation halts recruitment for an unknown period of time, while at the same time allows people to exercise their right to leave, the manpower overstretch problem will get a whole lot worse!

[downsizer]

I think that given the high probability of the RAF having to carry out MACA duties soon, on top of their 'normal' work and commitments, manpower overstretch could become a problem.

I think that if the organisation halts recruitment for an unknown period of time, while at the same time allows people to exercise their right to leave, the manpower overstretch problem will get a whole lot worse!

What good what entirely untrained manpower be? Exposing recruiters to risk. Far better to protect what you have, especially when other more important activities have to be maintained.

Fight me...

[Sky Sports]

If the current situation carries on and on and on, (18-24 months), as some are predicting, what number would you allow the RAF to reduce down to?

I think that a civvy wanting to join, is just as likely to catch something from the RAF recruiter, as the RAF recruiter is from the civvy walking through the door!

[muppetofthenorth]

If the current situation carries on and on and on, (18-24 months), as some are predicting, what number would you allow the RAF to reduce down to?

I think that a civvy wanting to join, is just as likely to catch something from the RAF recruiter, as the RAF recruiter is from the civvy walking through the door!
Recruitment can be done online now, there doesn't have to be any face to face interaction until much later in the process.
And part of the process - in the future - could be having a negative coronavirus test.

[pr00ne]

What part of assembling a large number of complete strangers together from all around the country, have them live and work together in extreme close proximity, sounds like social distancing and stay at home guidance?

Of course recruitment and training is going to be put on hold.

If you declare a national emergency and call up reserves then it may be a tad difficult to leave...

[Sky Sports]

Call up the reserves ..... who are most likely the fathers and sharing a house with those now wanting to join! Good plan.

[pr00ne]

Sky Sports,

No difference to the regulars, in exactly the same boat.

[AirCon5]

Of course recruitment and training is going to be put on hold.

The direction from the CAS is to keep essential training (Ph1, Flying and controller) as well as recruitment and selection going to maintain output for MACA (Ph1), so SkySports is correct. Currently Halton and Cranwell are taking intakes, but OASC based selection has stopped (Not what the CAS wants).

[Pontius Navigator]

Nephew still in training at Halton

[Sky Sports]

Are people still being allowed to leave the service currently?

[downsizer]

Are people still being allowed to leave the service currently?

Why do you ask..?

[Sky Sports]

Why do you ask..?

Because I would like to know the answer.

[downsizer]

Not heard of anyone being stopped, people have left from my locat, and seen nothing written down to say they can't. Hence why I was curious as to why you ask. Have you heard otherwise?

[Sky Sports]

Has anyone heard any rumours about when the various elements of selection are likely to restart?

[Bugs to forty]

Has anyone heard any rumours about when the various elements of selection are likely to restart?
Yes. Early July.

[Sky Sports]

Yes. Early July.

Thanks for that Bugs, massive thumbs up.

Do you know if it will be run as per pre-lockdown, or will the content be changed to accommodate social distancing i.e. modified hangar exercises?

[muppetofthenorth]

Thanks for that Bugs, massive thumbs up.

Do you know if it will be run as per pre-lockdown, or will the content be changed to accommodate social distancing i.e. modified hangar exercises?
If and when you get to each stage you'll be given full instructions on what's coming. No point getting yourself in a lather now about the unknown.

[Sky Sports]

Yes. Early July.

Apparently this is only for the 'priority' branches and doesn't include pilot. Pilot candidates will have to wait until the start of next year for OASC dates.

[medod]

Leaving covid and MFTS woes to one side, what is the process for applying and joining as aircrew today? Looking back on the early days of this thread it was all very clearly laid out. Perhaps the same could be done in 2020.

[muppetofthenorth]

Leaving covid and MFTS woes to one side, what is the process for applying and joining as aircrew today? Looking back on the early days of this thread it was all very clearly laid out. Perhaps the same could be done in 2020.
Process is basically identical, just with a few more gaps in it.

Apply online
AFCO responds (takes about 6-8 weeks after applying)
P2 presentation (a month+ later)
Filter interview (same again)
Medical (a month, possibly 2, then a huuuge wait for results because Capita are awful)
Fitness test (a month or so after medical results)
CBAT (another month)
OASC - now only 1 day (another 1-2 months later)
Then Fam Visit and on to IOT. Whole process takes over a year.

[WingsofRoffa]

Process is basically identical, just with a few more gaps in it.

Apply online
AFCO responds (takes about 6-8 weeks after applying)
P2 presentation (a month+ later)
Filter interview (same again)
Medical (a month, possibly 2, then a huuuge wait for results because Capita are awful)
Fitness test (a month or so after medical results)
CBAT (another month)
OASC - now only 1 day (another 1-2 months later)
Then Fam Visit and on to IOT. Whole process takes over a year.

I did this a couple of years ago, can confirm that this is accurate.

I'll add that with single digit aircrew recruitment numbers, you will also probably go through a couple of sifts - if you are competitive at all - so add another 6 months.

18m overall I have found is average for aircrew.

[Melchett01]

Process is basically identical, just with a few more gaps in it.

Apply online
AFCO responds (takes about 6-8 weeks after applying)
P2 presentation (a month+ later)
Filter interview (same again)
Medical (a month, possibly 2, then a huuuge wait for results because Capita are awful)
Fitness test (a month or so after medical results)
CBAT (another month)
OASC - now only 1 day (another 1-2 months later)
Then Fam Visit and on to IOT. Whole process takes over a year.

That's atrocious and no wonder I occasionally hear anecdotal tales of people dropping out or ending up in completley unrelated careers having lost interest / patience. I'm trying to cast my mind back to when I joined for comaprison. I had been on my UAS for the first 2 years of my degree, then applied at the end of the Christmas term in my postgrad year. Firstly it was a brief chat with the University Liaison Officer to get you on his list of interested candidates. Then I went to the AFCO just to jump through a few hoops, having been on the UAS I had a pretty good idea of most of what they said already. A couple of weeks after that I had a formal interview with the University LO who recommended me to OASC, with an appointment about 6 weeks later. All in all, from my initial approach to the University LO to getting my offer from OASC was about 3-4 months, so by Easter, and with an IOT start date in October that year 2 weeks after my degree finished.

If you make it through that lot then frankly you deserve an offer just out of sheer bloody perseverence. However, I would also say it's probably good training for the faff you'll experience when you do finally get in and are out in the real RAF!

[Party Animal]

My thoughts too. My experience was measured in weeks. Initial interest in Jan, OASC in Feb, IOT in Apr. Although it was the 1980’s!

[muppetofthenorth]

Well, if anyone has routes into the higher echelons of recruiting to have a moan about this, feel free to use them.
Gaps and delays are inevitable, but it's the 2 month wait for the AFCO to get back to you that I find worst of all.

[Sky Sports]

Does anyone know how the socially distanced boards are going? I've heard they are only testing 5 candidates a day, which by my reckoning, is not enough to reduce the lockdown backlog.

[muppetofthenorth]

Does anyone know how the socially distanced boards are going? I've heard they are only testing 5 candidates a day, which by my reckoning, is not enough to reduce the lockdown backlog.
They're only doing branches that are in demand, so the next few MIOTs sound like they'll be pretty skewed.

[Sky Sports]

The RAF closed new applications for pilot earlier this week! They now join the Navy in not currently recruiting pilots.

[helo425]

Does anyone know what for the current OASC medical takes and includes. My son is currently going through the whole OASC process and has his ‘medical’ in a weeks time. Oddly though this is to take the form of a Skype chat.

clearly the whole process is being disrupted by Covid but what can be achieved with a Skype medical. He’s already a granted permission for his docs to be passed across.

any thoughts. He’s going RPAS first then Provost and Supply after that.

thanks for your thoughts

[downsizer]

They'll review his docs, chat about his medical history and if nothing requires follow up move him along. If he has medical issues they'll investigate further.

[helo425]

Excellent. Thanks

[Sky Sports]

Is this skype medical that is done after his OASC board, i.e. the full aircrew medical, or the 'filter' medical that is done pre-fitness test and OASC board?

[helo425]

Obviously Covid has scrambled thing a lot. He online applied. Then went for CBAT Then online filter interview with the AFCO. Next is the online medical as mentioned. There’s no fit test at the moment though he’s as fit as the proverbial butchers dog. Then to OASC for the final tests and hopefully an offer to follow on after that.

I’ve been informed that all branches other than control are closed, and after some digging that applies to new applicants not those already in the system so that should not affect him.

[Sky Sports]

Ahh, so his online Skype medical will be the 'filter' medical, pre fitness test, that only really establishes if applicants are potentially fit and well for service. If he successfully passes the OASC board, he will then have the much more thorough RAF medical at Cranwell, which is the final hurdle. This will involve blood tests, ECG, limb measurements and the like.

Interesting to hear that they have closed applications for all branches apart from control. I thought it was just pilot that was closed.

[helo425]

Agreed. There’s only so much you can do with a Skype medical.

fitness testing has been paused at the moment. Applications are progressed with out a fit test at this time. I assume they will still need to figure a Covid friendly solution for that.

All branches closed to new applications unless selecting control (ATC and ABM). But if you had a live application before the closure you application will be progressed.

[Sky Sports]

According to other forums, there are now candidates who are 18 months into the application process who have had 3 OASC dates cancelled on them. Sounds like a huge backlog forming that they hope to clear by closing most branches to new candidates.

[Melchett01]

According to other forums, there are now candidates who are 18 months into the application process who have had 3 OASC dates cancelled on them. Sounds like a huge backlog forming that they hope to clear by closing most branches to new candidates.

If that is the case, unless individuals are determined that the RAF is the only thing they want to do in life, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the backlog clear itself. The only way it wouldn’t is if the economy tanks completely and individuals feel they have no other option. Neither is a great state of affairs.

[nutlord]

Hey all, I'll be going to RCAF pilot selection in the next month or so and have been doing a lot of prep with Lumosity, and the CBAT app. The only area that I'm really concerned about is the Sensory Motor Apparatus test with the little red ball that you have to keep in the middle of the screen using the joystick and rudder pedals. Can anyone recommend me to a computer program that I can hook up a stick and pedals to that will accurately replicate that test? I did the selection 7 years ago, and was told that this was the test that I did worst on, and it's also the hardest for me to prepare for.

[ZACKWOODS]

@nutlord, did you find anything that was helpful. cheers