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Old 30th Jul 2008, 09:03   #481 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Phuket, Thailand
Posts: 63
Silence of the Lambs

Any pilot who flew for Udom for quick money and left because they knew it was a catastophe waiting to happen and didn't do anything, like write a letter or protest or in some way to draw attention to the lack of safety , well, they are just as culpable for the 1-2 Go slaughter last September ...

Why did it take an American woman, not connected in any way to the airline industry, to get this done???

Please, ask yourselves how different are you really from the money-in-bag, Thai culture, because aquiessence is the foundation of corruption.

Now you should take out an ad in your respective countries, contact the US FAA and help get TLand's rating lowered.

Last edited by ChristySweet; 30th Jul 2008 at 09:14.
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Old 31st Jul 2008, 19:10   #482 (permalink)
 
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Fraudulent Roster Summary

The fraudulent roster summary for Arief and Montri given by Orient Thai management to the DCA (and presumably the NTSB) are now posted on the petition site.

5255 signatures and growing.
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Old 2nd Aug 2008, 03:15   #483 (permalink)
 
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The DCA reviewed schedule summaries

Btw, the posted fraudulent roster summaries are fraudulent schedule summaries .

2 supposedly competent commercial pilots chose to land in violent weather despite timely warning from a fellow pilot; 90 people are horribly killed, many others badly injured; Yet the DCA is looking at flight schedules rather than actual duty time.

The DCA must be having a terrible time trying to modify the NTSB's report to something that doesn't highlight DCA incompetence.
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Old 5th Aug 2008, 17:00   #484 (permalink)
 
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Translated DCA document

The translated DCA document is now on the petition site.
Other than the (surprised) admission on the Australian video, this document is the first time the DCA admits to knowing of the excessive pilot flight hours.
The document says they informed OT at the time.

The document clearly states that the DCA is aware of the dangerous and illegal actions at OT. The conclusion of a 30 day suspension for OTG and 30 day suspension of OT (MD-80's only)(which OT doesn't fly) seems pretty amazing.

Does anyone know of similar findings resulting in the such a minor penalty?
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Old 5th Aug 2008, 17:10   #485 (permalink)
 
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petition update

Btw, we've got 5281 signatures on the petition and it's been read 20,766 times.

Thank you.
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Old 6th Aug 2008, 16:23   #486 (permalink)
 
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Phuket Airport Ownership

afvap,

In response to your question: Phuket International is privately owned by Airports of Thailand Plc after it was made private in 2002. Although still largely govt owned as its ownership is as follows:

Ministry of finance (Thai) 1,000,000,000 BHAT (70%)
Chase Nominees Limited 1 (UK) 65,534,500 (4.6%)
Nortrust Nominees LTD (UK) 58,650,033 (4.1%)
State Street Bank and Trust company (US) 36,634,426 (2.6%)
State Street Bank and Trust company for Australia (US/AUS) 35,119,503 (2.4%)
HSBC (Singapore) Nominees Pte Ltd (Singapore) 35,042,043 (2.5%)
Goldman Sachs International (US) 16,967,300 (1.2%)
Morgan Stanley and Co International Plc (UK) 15,470,900 (1%)

The directors are as follows:

General Saprang Kalyanamitr Chairman
Mr. Kampree Kaocharern
Mr. Vudhibhandhu Vichairatana
Mr. Vinai Vittavasgarnvej
Air Marshal Narongsak Sangapong
Mr. Arkhom Tempittayapaisith
Air Marshal Ittaporn Subhawong
Mrs. Danucha Yindeepit
Mr. Nonthapol Nimsomboon
Mr. Yodyiam Teptaranon
Mr. Chirmsak Pinthong
Mr. Thaworn Phanichpan
Mr. Suphoth Sublom
Mr. Maitree Srinarawat
Air Marshal Chana U-Sathaporn Secretary
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Old 6th Aug 2008, 17:32   #487 (permalink)
 
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Do you know if the runways and taxiways are part of the privatized ownership, or is it perhaps just the buildings?
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Old 14th Aug 2008, 12:37   #488 (permalink)
 
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update

5548 signatures on the petition and gaining rapidly again.
More material coming soon.
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Old 14th Aug 2008, 14:10   #489 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: not a million miles from old BKK
Posts: 494
Orient Thai grounded at last?

I took this photo at Suvarnabhumi yesterday (Wednesday) lunchtime as we taxied out.



At least 5 (possibly 6) OT 747's just parked up. I couldn't clearly see the one at the far end by the Thai hanger and it didn't have the OT tail markings but you can just make out the red 'T' of the word Thai on the forward right side.
At any rate, with OTG already grounded, Udom doesn't seem to be doing much flying at the moment.
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Old 20th Aug 2008, 14:15   #490 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: US
Posts: 206
news and petition update

News: We hear the FAA has returned to Thailand.
Petition: We've created a video and image site in support of the petition. (Nothing graphic). So far, we've posted:
  • A couple of pictures (with permission, thank you!) from this thread
  • A few excerpts from the Australian Sunday program (Udom says: "If I lie, you can catch me." etc)
  • Excerpts from an Orient Thai UN Charter flight on which the flight attendants remained on board the aircraft for over 48 hours.
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Old 20th Aug 2008, 20:41   #491 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Unstable Thailand
Posts: 106
Ch 9 link

Do you have a link to the entire Ch 9 programme?
Thanks.
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Old 20th Aug 2008, 21:26   #492 (permalink)
 
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Ch 9 link

The petition has several links to the entire channel 9 Sunday program. I'll add an explicit link on images.investigateudom.com. Thank you for the suggestion and your interest. (I really haven't built that page to be stand alone - yet.)

Nick did gave me permission to post excerpts from the program. I thought PPRuNe readers might enjoy the Ch 9 snippet (2 of 7) where Udom suggests the pilots who assisted Nick and Sarah are serial complainers. ;-)
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Old 21st Aug 2008, 09:18   #493 (permalink)
 
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Location: The dark side of the moon
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InvestigateUdom

InvestigateUdom

Out in Asia the word 'Competent' is used very, very loosely. I flew with an Asian carrier as a first officer and the standard of captains varied considerably. In Asia I flew with the best captains I have ever flown with and by far the most scary buggers. Whom for some reason always pass their Sim checks, but frequently loosing their situational awareness on approach!!! Furthermore, these dodgy captains also display terrible knowledge of the aircraft. For instance, after climbing through a CB I notice a unhealthy build up of ice on our B737 wings. I told the captain I was turning on the 'Wing Anti-ice' and he nearly leapt out of his skin. He said I couldn't do that because it would depressurize the aircraft. WHAT??? I think I would be more worried about keeping a linear flow over the wing as we approached the cruise and neared the coffin corner!!!
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Old 21st Aug 2008, 15:55   #494 (permalink)
 
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Touch'n'oops: Presumably you don't mean all of Asia?
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Old 23rd Aug 2008, 14:59   #495 (permalink)
 
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Posts: 206
the FAA

The FAA team has come and left Thailand. The FAA team informed the DCA that they were retaining their Category 1 rating!
An IASA rating boils down to two questions which must be satisfied for that Category 1 rating:
  1. Does DCA oversight ensure Thai-based airlines will operate safely and properly in the US?
  2. Are US travelers safe flying Thai-based airlines in and outside of the US?
Mr. Mel Cintron is the FAA Division Manager of the International Programs and Policy Division, AFS-50. He confirms the FAA team told the DCA they would remain Category 1. However, he says the rating is not final until he approves it. He plans to review the information next week.

If you have information or opinions regarding the oversight of the DCA or the safety of US passengers on Thai-based airlines - wherever they operate, such as UN charter flights, on Hajj, in Jeddah, or in Thailand - please send Mr. Cintron a respectful email. His email is: [email protected] Feel free also to copy me on any email: [email protected]

Btw: It seems the DCA provided the FAA team with paperwork purporting to show control of the situation. It is my understanding that the paperwork- such as pilot flight hours for the past 11 months (note they didn't go back 12 months, because we've posted the true information for the 12th month) and policies such as engine out touch and go standards - are no more representative of the truth than the material we've already shown to be fraudulent and sham.

Thank you for your support and interest.
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Old 23rd Aug 2008, 22:02   #496 (permalink)
Paxing All Over The World
 
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Age: 61
Posts: 8,211
At the risk of asking a banal question, when you are dealing with such an important matter ...

If a pax wants to travel internally in Thailand by air - is there any carrier they can use? Or are you suggesting direct international flights only?

Thanks.
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Old 23rd Aug 2008, 23:46   #497 (permalink)
ZFT
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Age: 67
Posts: 1,733
PAXboy,

TG, BKP and (what's left of) Nok Air are all quality carriers.

The only other choice is rail which is a good, cheap, albeit very slow option.
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Old 24th Aug 2008, 00:36   #498 (permalink)
81d
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: reading
Age: 47
Posts: 8
i flew to phuket and krabi this year with AIR ASIA and they were good.

And i have flown with bangkok airways from koh samui probably the best small airport i have been to.

going on the train to chang mai on the night sleeper next month 14hrs each way

cheers
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Old 24th Aug 2008, 01:48   #499 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 27
Phuket Air

If a proper audit was conducted into the flight duty times and issues with Phuket Air they would be finished.
Thai DCA was on the property doing an audit when many of these issues were taking place, money may have change hands as nothing was done.
For the FAA to find nothing wrong there and to allow the CAT 1 status to continue only means the Thai DCA covered up even more items and issues.
So the final word is to Mr. Boeing. FAA and GACA, Thai DCA
1. You can do 20 hour duty days when regulations say only 14.
2. MEL is only a guide not for charter operations as the coordinator and chief pilot states.
3. The 3 engine take offs were totally legal, no permits required, even when VAC came apart and dropped engine parts over JED.
4. All fire warnings and overheats have to be considered false warnings, no actions required, only action will be termination if you return to base and dump the fuel?
5. If you say this is not allowed then you are a complainer according to the C/P.
C/P credentials in question, someone should contact Kalitta HR department, why he is not there any longer.
6. WX radar and TCAS not required.
7.Both pilots allowed to operate together basic crew over 60, records show this!!!!
Ever wonder why all your western pilots left.
Village idiots running Phuket Air.
Threats and intimidation from the Indian cordinator.
Same as Orient Thai.
They dont want to hire western pilots because they say we complain too much.
Complain about what?
Potecting our licence and operating according to the required regulations, even stated in the terms of our contract?
Saudi Arabian Airlines should hang there head in shame for having this company there and allowing this to continue.
How many western pilots left there?
2
Everyone wanted out before something bad happens.
But I will say one thing, Thai people are nice, if they got rid on the threatining Indian coordinator and the current C/P then maybe this company could turn around.
But with these 2 no one wants to work under threats and intimidation.
Being told constantly that we would be repalced with a Filipinio or Indonesian at half the salary as they would never complain and fly anything was not good managment.
Better companies out there.

Last edited by MrXrules; 24th Aug 2008 at 02:04.
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Old 24th Aug 2008, 05:09   #500 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The wx is here, I wish u were beautiful
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The Problems With Audits

Quote:
Btw: It seems the DCA provided the FAA team with paperwork purporting to show control of the situation. It is my understanding that the paperwork- such as pilot flight hours for the past 11 months (note they didn't go back 12 months, because we've posted the true information for the 12th month) and policies such as engine out touch and go standards - are no more representative of the truth than the material we've already shown to be fraudulent and sham.
And that's the crux of the matter. No Thai DCA official has been rebuked or punished for the lack of oversight which they were forced to admit in conjunction to with the shutdown order. No Thai accident investigation results have been released. Ignore it long enough and it will go away, saving face.

The FAA action is an 'audit' not an inspection. Ginning up paperwork and policies to respond to audit deficiencies are SOP. If the recertification is approved, the FAA International program is setting itself up for its own problems with Congress once the facts start being bandied about in federal court. Political cover or early retirement are probably the cause for the delay.
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