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Old 6th Oct 2007, 18:45   #261 (permalink)
 
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If not then he is not a fit and proper person to own an airline.Go and run a restuarant.
Well, then for the first 6 months, the biz was on its way to become a good restaurant, then dragon lady took over and things went south from there. People's lives (health, in particular the stomach) is at risk, and perhaps with their lives too.

Udom maybe 1 half of the equation... Dragon Lady maybe the other half. Soon, we'll have Namfon and Ongar calling the shots on how the waiters should serve the customers and how the dishes should be washed!

STOP! Is there a repeating pattern here? Where's the safety inspectors? Oh hang on, envelopes!

The solution is not for him to run a restaurant... is for him to understand the risks involved by running it the way he's used to, and by having the same people "assisting" him!
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Old 7th Oct 2007, 11:27   #262 (permalink)
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The information decoded so far from the black box flight recorder of the ill-fated One-Two-Go airliner is said to match the findings of an investigating team which carried out the initial plane crash inquiry in Phuket on Sept 16.
That is soooo reassuring. One immediately feels confidence that the team started with their own investigations and then found that the FDR confirmed it all. If, for example, they had started with the FDR/CVR they might have found that it did not line up with their thinking ...
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Old 7th Oct 2007, 23:38   #263 (permalink)
 
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Namfon and her restuarant???

Let's not continue with the restuarant theme..been there done that with her already.

OX B757 Charter flight to Africa in 2005/2006....management (Namfon) had been complaining about crew meals and the cost of catering. So on this particular flight her solution was to supply "canned" foods for the crew meal.

No kidding on this one!!!! I was there and took one of those delectable delights and left it on the DFO's desk as evidence of "management's" love for the crew.
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Old 8th Oct 2007, 02:11   #264 (permalink)
 
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Heard that on impact,the gears were retracted,flaps position half and one single call of windshear warning aleart,copilot was PF. And tower advised wind 40kt bearing 20 degrees with pilot acknowledged.And sink rate was very high prior to impact.
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Old 8th Oct 2007, 09:48   #265 (permalink)
 
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Bungfai,
If so, could it be the accident was a go-around hit by a windshear? As opposed to hitting the windshear first and then going around?

PK-KAR
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Old 8th Oct 2007, 13:45   #266 (permalink)
 
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If so, could it be the accident was a go-around hit by a windshear? As opposed to hitting the windshear first and then going around?

PK-KAR
Why would it make a difference?

Are we not talking only seconds and if so what aircraft configuration changes would be different?
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Old 8th Oct 2007, 14:46   #267 (permalink)
 
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Does it make a difference? I got a little kid wanting to be a pilot, calling me that day thinking it was his father on the plane and begged for me to find out if it was or not. The same kid wants to know why his father's friend died that day! He thinks it's too much for his father to be asked by him as he's just waiting for the end of his contract then leave!

Then you got people who knew the captain asking the same questions.

For them, it can make a difference in understanding how it all happened! Especially as many of them operate under a similar management regime, where leaving isn't "such an easy option"... and they fear when it happens to them, it'll be attributed to pilot error... there's a difference in the bereavement payouts because of that in some places.

For me, it makes a difference because I want to know when was the PIREP from the previous landing crew relayed to the fateful jet. Was the go-around executed properly, what made the airplane became unstable? Was it the windshear afterwards or an error in executing the g/a? or a simple error of performing a standard g/a while already in a windshear?

PK-KAR
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Old 12th Oct 2007, 09:27   #268 (permalink)
 
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Well, so much for all the OX, Indonesian, Muslim, "Asian face-saving reluctance to go-around" bashing on this thread, then. It was bloody wind shear that caused it!
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Old 12th Oct 2007, 10:59   #269 (permalink)
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How refreshing that a full enquiry can be investigated and completed within one month of the prang. That just makes you realise that those silly western countries that take 12 or 18 months to complete a report - just don't know how to do it properly... (There is no smiley face that can adequately represent the situation)
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Old 12th Oct 2007, 11:07   #270 (permalink)
 
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Well, so much for all the OX, Indonesian, Muslim, "Asian face-saving reluctance to go-around" bashing on this thread, then. It was bloody wind shear that caused it
Just because it may have been windshear does not mean it may have been an unavoidable event. Maybe it was the press on to try and land even though the clues were there about the conditions. Lets wait and see.
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Old 12th Oct 2007, 12:13   #271 (permalink)
 
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I clipped this off another site
Quote:
Wind shear 'behind Thai plane crash'
Thai officials say wind shear was partly to blame for the crash of a passenger plane that killed 90 people, including an Australian man.
The plane, operated by budget carrier One-Two-Go, crashed at Phuket Airport on September 16.
Transport Ministry permanent secretary Chaisawat Kittipornpaiboon said an examination of data from the plane's flight recorder had shown that sudden strong winds were partly responsible for the crash.
"But the black box didn't say the cause was only wind shear," Chaisawat told reporters.
He said authorities would need more time to analyse the data and other evidence before announcing a final conclusion on the cause of the crash.
The McDonnell-Douglas MD-82 plane skidded off the runway after landing at Phuket Airport, 640km south of Bangkok, and crashed into an embarkment, splitting in two and bursting into flames.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/World/...ne-crash/2007/ 10/12/1191696165387.html
Note that it does not say the cause was only wind shear and that it will take months to review all the other evidence.
so carry on
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Old 13th Oct 2007, 04:26   #272 (permalink)
 
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Many contributing factors

anito4a,

As you progress in your aviation career, you will learn that all accidents are caused by a chain of events with many contributing factors! As PAXboy implied, it's disturbing to have an inquiry to publicly announce findings within a month of the accident, especially the following statements:

"Vuttichai Singhamanee, director of the Civil Aviation Department’s Flight Safety Standards Bureau, said that from his checks the MD82 aircraft which served OG029 was in good shape, as the pilot did not report any problems prior the accident. The Indonesian captain also met safety requirements, as he had flown only five hours on the fateful day." (posting #210)

From those of us who have worked at OX, we all know OX did not want to spend any money on maintenance. Even if the logbook showed everything is working OK there were often "XXX repaired, ground check OK" entries that would fulfill the MEL requirement only to be written up again on the next flight (thus gaining another 10 days before it is required to be fixed.) To state that the MD82 was in good shape as early as Sep 27th just confirmed that there was neither a careful inspection of the logbook nor any audit of the repairs.

Again those of us who have worked at OX are familiar with Namfon's reluctance to let us "overpaid bus drivers" to have any time off and with the management attitude of the pilots must do whatever the they asked of them (specifically, to exceed duty limitations). Although the pilots have "only flown five hours on the fateful day", there is no mention of the duty periods prior to that day, which could very possible caused fatigue that could dramatically affect their judgement and reaction. We tried 6 sectors days in the early days of B752 operation in OX in 2004 and quickly replaced them with 4 sector days. Although 6 sectors a day on domestic operations (3 out and backs from BKK to CNX, CEI, HDY, or HKT) were within the duty limitation of 8 hrs flight time, it was simply not smart for it was too fatiguing when you factor in the weather avoidance and holds one experience regularly on a daily basis within Thailand. Fortunately for us Namfon was not firmly in charge then so we were allowed to do so.

I am not familiar with the MD-82 but I doubt any OX aircraft would be equipped with EGPWS (it would have added cost to the aircraft), which would give the pilots advance warning of windshear. For that matter, I curious whether the GPWS on that fateful aircraft was operational or not. Simulator windshear training is not designed to see how many times you can escape windshear but to let you learn how to recognize windshear. Again we have experienced that OX have very little, if any, training. If the crew was slow to recognize windshear (yes I know the tower relayed info from previous aircraft, but HKT does not have LLWS warning equipment so it would not have been a windshear warning just an advisory) and carried out a standard missed approach instead of the windshear escape manoeuver, that would have made the difference between being safely airborne and crashing.

In western culture, the goal of accident investigation is to find out exactly what happened so similar tragedies can be avoided in the future. That is the main reason these process take such a long time to complete. With the Asian culture of "saving face", unfortunately the greatest fear for those of us who are familiar with OX operations will be realized - that this avoidable accident will be attributed simply as pilot error. The major contributing factor of OX mismanagement (unwillingness to spend money on maintenance and training and exploiting pilots by forcing them to exceed their duty limits) and other possible factors such as fatigue, lack of training, and lack of maintenance will be covered up to avoid loss of face to Udom and DCA. We just hope that these factors will be exposed to the public so there will not be any similar accidents in the future.

If you search for Orient Thai and read the threads, you will see that most the recent postings (from 2004 onward, much later than your inquiry in 2001) does not have much good to say about the management there. Specifically,

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...ht=Orient+Thai

Many of us, including myself, have worked there and was fortunate enough to leave because we had other options. IHMO, this accident could have easily been avoided and that is why I had to answer your posting.
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Old 13th Oct 2007, 08:26   #273 (permalink)
 
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PAXboy

May I suggest you stay that way, a pax boy! The investigation report will not be published for another 9/12 months at least. Wait until then before making rather silly and stupid remarks about something you know nothing about.
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Old 13th Oct 2007, 09:54   #274 (permalink)
 
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merlinxx, i think you will find that Paxboy was using what we call 'sarcasm'..
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Old 13th Oct 2007, 10:13   #275 (permalink)
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So let me get this right......'unfortunately the flight happened on a day when there was not a lot of lift in the air, and coupled with the Cb forming moments before the flight landed, it was enough to make the weight of the aeroplane temporarily exceed the available lift from the wings, with the unfortunate outcome that the aeroplane could no longer keep flying at that instant, and an unintentionally excessive impact, a degree or two above design parameters, occurred with the airport environs.'

I see.
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Old 8th Nov 2007, 15:01   #276 (permalink)
 
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Exclamation What happened with the One-2-Go Phuket crash ?

The crash of a MD-82 in less than clement conditions and the awful loss of life, of only one died that is still awful.

The aircraft appeared to have tried to land during windshear/microburst.
Was the Captain pressured by the airline to land? What was his validations?
What was the situation with crew training ?

A host of questions, have there been any answers?

Have other airlines tried an approach in these conditions and got away with it ?

If in doubt divert ?

This is the only information I have found so far, it was posted 15th October 2007:-


BANGKOK, Oct 12 (TNA) – Analysis of flight and data recorders from the passenger jet operated by Thai budget carrier One-Two-Go which crashed at Phuket last month found that wind shear was the main culprit that caused Thailand's worst air disaster in ten years, according to the country's top investigator.
The budget airline's ill-fated flight OG 268 veered off a runway at Phuket International Airport amid heavy rain and strong crosswinds on September 16. The MD 82 model aircraft broke into two sections before bursting into flame in both wings and the rear section of the broken aircraft, killing 90 people on board, including 53 foreigners.
Chaisawat Kittipornpaiboon, Permanent Secretary for Transport, in his capacity as head of the fact-finding committee, told reporters on Friday that the US experts concluded after thorough analysis of the data retained in two flight and data recorders and circumstantial witnesses that the wind shear presence at the time forced the pilot to pull up the plane before it lost balance and skid off the runway which led to the loss of many lives.
Analysis shows wind shear caused Phuket air crash BANGKOK, Oct 12 (TNA) – Analysis of flight and data recorders from the passenger jet operated by Thai budget carrier One-Two-Go which crashed at Phuket last month found that wind shear was the main culprit that caused Thailand's worst air disaster in ten years, according to the country's top investigator.
Wind shear is the severe movement of winds at different altitudes blowing forcefully in different directions, which causes erratic movement of an aircraft attempting to nivaigate a direct path.
The air disaster is Thailand's worst since a Thai Airways Airbus SAS A310-200 crash in an attempted landing at Surat Thani in December 1998, killing 101 of the 146 people on board. (TNA)
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Old 9th Nov 2007, 08:08   #277 (permalink)
 
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What happened?

Everyone went mad for a few weeks pointing the finger wildly in all directions some of which should have meant (but didn't) a thorough investigation of the airline's procedures and the possible grounding of it's aircraft.

The Thai authorities made statements that all would be revealed in days and then it wasn't as these things take time to analyse to the most minute detail (surprise, surprise).

The plane was hauled off a few feet to the beach and then covered in tarpaulins where I believe it still sits.

And now it's all gone quiet while the authorities hope that this, like the other load of transport catastrophies/tragedies in Thailand from train to boat to bus also go quiet so that the tourist dollars still flow with the iminent arrival of the high season.

I'd like to see a graph showing the number of tickets sold by 1, 2 Go before and after the disaster - last few times I've been at Don Muang their desks have had very few passengers in line.

Apart from that, I can tell you very little I'm afraid!
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Old 9th Nov 2007, 09:07   #278 (permalink)
 
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Unfortunately alot of unsuspecting passengers dont know the connection between Orient Thai and OneTo Go and still buy tickets not knowing that it is the same carrier! How is a company allowed to do this? Dont give me the usual code share bs story either, how can they continue to get away with this?
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Old 9th Nov 2007, 12:39   #279 (permalink)
 
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Innaflap - that's just about what I have concluded. Wait till everybody forgets(except the families) and pretend it never happened.

This is Thailand !

It is hoped that one of the bereaved families will take this to court ?


How much commercial pressure was on the pilot to land in those conditions? Have other pilots in a similar situation been lucky and got away with it ?
If there were extreme weather conditions and nasty charlie-bangers about.

Why did the pilots not take alternatives ?

Safety first ? Or is that Money first, safety second ?
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Old 12th Nov 2007, 22:27   #280 (permalink)
 
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Safety at OX?

For those who know Orient Thai- One Two Go from the inside, safety was NEVER a concern. Looks like they will continue operating as before, thanks to the DCA's accident investigation conclusions: Windshear- Act of God.

From someone who has been there: Criminal philosophies and practices by OX management and DCA have caused this accident
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