CORK - 5

[Angry Rebel]

I don't believe it's a question of investment in a control tower displacing investment in runways or taxiways as the funds for a control tower will come from the IAA but they would not be contributing to any runway development as that is for the airport itself to fund.

As for 07/25, I think it may well be a more viable option for extending, as there is plenty of land to the west. Some posters have cited the road as an obstruction but that is very easy to run beneath the extended runway. How many airports around the world have we all seen that in, and they do it for 4 lane motorways and railways...I'm sure we could manage a 2 lane backroad!? The biggest drawback is that an "extension" to 07/25 is going to cost a lot more as it's already a lot shorter, and hasn't had the pavement investment of 17/35.

[840]

In Dublin, the R108 would go straight through the main runway. So, it routes around the perimeter of the airport. It's a much busier road than the one in the way of the westward expansion of 07/25, so you can be pretty certain that just running the road around the perimeter would be ther prefered solution if an extension were to occur. No need for expensive tunnels.

[Provance]

Ei -> Ork : Man

does anyone have any ideas as to why EI have reduced this service. Is it possible that EI are going to announce another s/h route ? I myself am surprised to see a reduction in service. If anything, I expected it to go daily

[840]

The aircraft is going to be operating MAN-DUB on the Wednesday and Sunday, so it won't mean any new route from Cork.

My guess is that the extra Ryanair capacity to Liverpool has caused a change of mind.

[brian_dromey]

Ork-man

I agree with providence, I would have expected the service to go daily as well, as the fares were not that cheap and seemed to be selling OK. Fares seemed to be in line(or higher) than LHR for most days.

It is also somewhat strange the the exact OPPOSITE days(apart from Sat) will now be servced as was proposed. There was mention before of "slack" in the EI timetable, so maybe if they juggle things round a bit, it would fit. I remember talking to an F/A shortly after the announcement was made and she said "we expected to get it"

It is strange that EI would not serve Sundays and Fridays, the two biggest days for UK-ORK travel. Has anybody seen what WW charge most sundays to MAN? Usually 100EUR including tax, unless there is an offer on, its about 30-50. Thats ONE-WAY!
Let us also remember that in the late 90s there EI had multiple daily services to MAN,and BHX, along with 5x daily to LHR, and there waere also other regional UK airports served with F50/146. There was also BA to LGW, MAN and GLA.

In previous years links to the UK were far more frequent than they are now.

[Charlie Roy]

EI: ORK - MAN
Aer Lingus are taking the completely wrong approach on the ORK-MAN route! If they want to compete then they should go all out and operate the route with a high frequency and attractive schedules.

Now they're just going to lose money! They have no hope when you compare their crap schedule against that of the competitors

FR: ORK - LGW
The ORK - LGW schedule has finally been modified to fit with the summer ORK - DUB schedule. It has yet to be revealed however whether the FR aricraft will do another quick Dublin rotation in the late evening. Say 2105 - 2155 and back 2220 - 2310 ....?

[anna_list]

Fr Ork - Dub

A fifth daily rotation on ORK-DUB is in the FR booking system this morning.

The times are (rather scarily) exactly as Charlie Roy predicted.

[johnrizzo2000]

I cant believe there will be 5 daily FR to DUB, and 9 daily RE to DUB! I know that there isnt 14 flights every day of the week, but thats still a lot of flights between both cities!

[Tom the Tenor]

They hardly want my sympathy but that is now the feeling I am arriving at in relation to Cork Airport. A frequency cut on a new route before it even starts with EI on MAN-ORK and as pointed out above no Fri/Sun flights! This is really the Pox of Cork Airport in full flight. What has got into EI to bring this on as it seems to me they are just not interested now on making a go of MAN-ORK and leaving Cork pax to the mercies of bmi baby and their crews in not conducting CATII approaches to Cork in low visibility operations. If for no other reason this is why bmi baby are in need of a good shake up on MAN-ORK. The EI planners have really messed this one up before it even starts.

Now, today we have more news that FR are adding in a fifth ORK-DUB flight! Looks like they are all out to get Aer Arann? Well, for Cork Airport's sake let us hope that FR do not succeed as it might turn out like easyJet all over again. They might wipe Aer Arann off the Dublin route and as soon as that happens would FR reduce flights or even try to quit like they did by at first reducing LGW flights and later trying if they could quietly drop LGW all together before the heat was turned on and this coming summer's LGW flight was restored.

Five return flights to Dublin! Gee, it just defies me that with all their hundreds of destinations Ryanair have this fixation on not offering any other choice from Cork. What are they on? They must be nuts? EMA, PIK, CRL, somewhere in Germany/Italy/France/Spain - there has got to be one destination that would be a winner without affecting the ever precious Shannon operation?

Cork needs EI or FR or some carrier to consider a 99 seater aircraft for operations if their courage fails them with the 174/189 seaters on potential new routes? Without knowing the detail JetBlue seem to have this done right with the ERJ 190 series aircraft?

Otherwise, we are left with the present madness and this cannot be allowed to continue because Cork Airport is being left further and further behind.

Did any of you hear Mr Joe Gantley, Chairman of the Cork Airport Authority on the RTE Radio 1 business show last Sunday morning at 10 am? The discussion was on business in general firstly but the host of the show then introduced the Flyglobespan Knock project and Mr Gantley was asked for his thoughts on a potential North Atlantic project from Cork. Without naming it he referred to the failed Slatterys project from autumn 2005 and how Cork people did not support the flights. There was little encouragement from Mr Gantley on the subject. It was a pity because he had a chance to suggest something like how a Cork route to America would be very likely a goer if an
airline with a leading brand took it up, eg, Continental, Aer Lingus, Delta etc.

Certainly, this afternoon in Cork there are plenty of Bus Eireann city busses covered in Continental Airlines' logos advertising the Shannon to Newark service.
What a mockery these bus ads make of Cork Airport! Is there anyone at Cork Airport that can react to this kind of open humiliation.

Is there anyone in charge at Cork Airport that has an ounce of pride in their job and in their airport or don't they care?

[en2r]

Ork-dub

Johnrizzo there are only 7 RE flights daily, however that still means there are 12 flights daily. Considering FR are selling seats for €7.50 all in at the moment the route mustn't be doing very well. It has been said previously on this thread that the route was achieving just 60% load factor when the route was just three daily, I wonder what the loads will be like for five daily. It's even more surprising when you consider the fact that they probably only needed one crew daily to operate the old schedule while now they will need two, just to fit in the extra Dublin rotation, increasing costs significantly. With a tightening of the schedule the aircraft could do a rotation to Prestwick which would have a much better yield than an extra Dublin rotation. However it looks like FR are determined to drive RE off the route and to be honest I wouldn't be surprised if the LGW route were operated on a W pattern leaving the Cork based aircraft free to operate up to 7 flights a day to Dublin.

[brian_dromey]

Cork needs EI or FR or some carrier to consider a 99 seater aircraft for operations if their courage fails them with the 174/189 seaters on potential new routes? Without knowing the detail JetBlue seem to have this done right with the ERJ 190 series aircraft?

The 190 and ORK are a match made in heaven. Its a very, very effecient aircraft, seat 100 in more comfort than many widebodies, has very low fuel burn and only need two hosties. So Tom if you wnat to buy me a few 190s....my brithday is comming up soon. Promise Ill do CATII just for you!

I really am of the opinion that the CAA have lost the plot, they are clueless, they do not go after business and by all accounts show, at best, total apathy for new business (EZY) or at worst distain (Long haul).

Honestly if a few of us on here got the airport for six months.......AT THE VERY LEAST there would be serious efforts at pulling NW/DL/CO/Globespan or whoever. I would love to see flyBE at ORK as well, along with more regional UK frequencies and destinations.

One daily service to MAN/BHX na d a half arsed EI schedule is a joke.

[riptack]

I think Brian made a good point about JetBlue, EI should consider a smaller jet option. They seem to have left go of regional operations and focused on DUB and a little on ORK in recent years. But seeing as they only have bases in Ireland it seems unwise to not utilise regional airports more for both feeder traffic and short haul routes.

In fairness to RE they have opened a lot of routes from ORK giving us more direct flights. However the ATR is only going to get you so far. For example cities like Madrid would probably be better served by a smaller (99 seats) jet.

TERMINAL
I don't understand why the people of Cork aren't more p'd off about the expenditure on a new airport that is only currently meeting the demand. A few weeks ago I was in the departures lounge early in the morning and couldn't help noticing how packed it was. I know it was near xmas and peak time but its new!!

[ryan2000]

Air South West

It seems that Air South West are all set to launch Newquay Cork for the Summer. At last something for the CAA to celebrate.

[Tom the Tenor]

Good news about Air Southwest. Cead mile failte go Corcaigh! Nice little airline and nice Dash 8s. Hope they do well. How are they in LVPs - CAT I/CATII?

It might have to do with it being winter time but have heard that an American Challeger biz jet that arrived today is being allowed parking for no less than about 5 nights at Cork Airport! A good little earner for the CAA!

Off to Madrid in the mornin' with she who must be obeyed. Who would have thought it just a few short years ago - Madrid from Cork? How bad for Cork Airport! The EI892 might be even up to the airbridge tomorrow morning! If she is there will be a full report!

[Hey there]

Am I alone in suspecting Ryanair have screwed up big time with Cork and would love to get off the Dublin route? Sure they've added a fifth, but at a time of day which will only rob from their other service and Arann's last rotation. They are clearly struggling to get good loadfactors as they seem to always have fares for 5 or 10 euros including all charges, so I suspect there simply isnt the market for this sort of capacity on the route. By my back of the envelope, 70 737 sectors per week is around 675,000 seats per year, plus Arann on around 250,000 seats, but the market is still no more than 500,000 per year, even with giveaway fares pushing growth.
The script must have assumed Arann would throw in the towel sooner than now but they seem to be doing ok, certainly down on last year but still pretty high loads on many of the ATR flights I have used in the last few months, and not necessarily cheap either.

[brian_dromey]

Fr Ork-dub

I think you are almost certainly corrrect , heythere. I imagine FR though RE would have pulled an EasyJet and fecked off long before now.

IIRC RE did reduce frequencies quite dramatically after teh initial announcement of FR on the route. But they seem to be doing fine as they are back up to seven daily flights (from 4 at the lowest point, IIRC). That was certainly not part of the FR plan. And as you so rightly point out, REs fares are not exactly the bargains FRs are.

It would appear that the short check-in times (as short as 10-15mins in reality) ticket flexibility, coffee and newspapers have kept the business traveller loyal. Im sure the fact that the walk to FRs A gates at DUB is a good 5-10 minutes longer than RE's dosent do too much harm to RE either!

[ryan2000]

Ryanair

Many people find taking the train less stressful. Maybe if Ryanair could be more flexible with Domestic services they might get more train users to switch. The emphasis on checking in 2 hrs before departure is a huge turn off. Maybe allowing people to change flights without incurring massive extra charges might also help.
Aer Arann might be still on the route but Ryanair have very very big cash reserves so I'd expect them to stay and the evening departures from Dublin and Cork should generate new business during the summer months.
CAA must be hoping that both carriers stay on the route as if either pulls out it will almost certainly lead to substantial negative growth at Cork for 2007 in view of their failure to attract any significant new business.

[CCR]

You can check in as late as 40 mins prior to departure with Ryanair and only 30 mins before departure with Aer Arann who can be quite flexible on check-in times.

[Charlie Roy]

Also if you have Ryanair's priority boarding (and hand luggage only) you just have to be at the security gate 30 min before the flight. (Even less I imagine if the security guy is in a good mood....)

[ryan2000]

Ork-dub

That's true but the perception among many members of the public is that you need to be there 2 hrs beforehand. Ryanair highlight that when booking. There is also a perception that the journey from City Centre to City Centre is the same length by train.
I much prefer the plane but the overwhelming majority are still using trains. A clever marketing initiative might change things.