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NATO vs Russia

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Old 31st Jan 2024, 11:09
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC
Anders Puck Nielsen, a military expert, has published a YouTube video in which he discusses whether Russia can indeed attack NATO and whether a Russia-NATO war is really possible. His line of thought looks logical to me, so I want to share his conclusions with you.

Mr. Nielsen argues that, while Russia is indeed unable to launch a full-scale invasion against NATO countries, it is quite capable of attempting to break the Alliance apart. Russia is interested in establishing a new geopolitical reality in which NATO ceases to exist and Russia can have bilateral relations with each country separately, not through an "umbrella" of an alliance.

Russia might start by launching a small "military operation" on just one NATO country - Northern Finland seems a possible location. The scale of the strike should be enough to "trigger" Article 5, but not large enough for a guaranteed full-scale response by the NATO forces.

In that case, Russia would watch NATO's response closely. If other NATO countries (and the US, in particular) will decide that it is not necessary to get involved due to the "minor" nature of the incident, that would effectively mean that NATO Alliance is over. And that opens a lot of favorable opportunities for Russia.

If, on the other hand, NATO acts clearly and decisively and shows that the Alliance is indeed willing to go to war for a small piece of "insignificant" land, it is probable that Russia will back off.

What do you think about this scenario?

Source: https://youtu.be/ZY7GPBSyONU?si=VSlzvJwKucWlSPPb
I am sure this thesis was discussed recently on another thread ORAC.
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Old 31st Jan 2024, 14:22
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It sure was, and his entering assumption is necessary but invalid.
However, Putin may test the waters to see what happens.
FAFO.
--------------
Aviation content. Within the past day German jets intercepted Russian aircraft flying close to their (or was in NATO?) airspace.
Maybe Vlad is just living out his second childhood by getting a Second Cold War underway. He's not a young man ...

Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 31st Jan 2024 at 18:38.
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Old 5th Feb 2024, 16:05
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Swedens Ratification for NATO membership has stalled as Hungary did not turn up.


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Old 5th Feb 2024, 16:52
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Originally Posted by NutLoose
Swedens Ratification for NATO membership has stalled as Hungary did not turn up.



https://twitter.com/NOELreports/stat...10895818907659
I thought Hungary had come on side, after Sweden settled some problem concerning the Kurds. Get an agreement, then change your part of it???
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Old 5th Feb 2024, 17:59
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Originally Posted by Herod
I thought Hungary had come on side, after Sweden settled some problem concerning the Kurds. Get an agreement, then change your part of it???
When you say " problem concerning the Kurds. " think Turks.not Hungarians. Orban's bête noire is the EU blocking funds ( 10 billion Euros ) to Hungary because of what they see as anti-democratic developments ( interference in justice system, dealing with asylum seekers, homosexual rights etc )
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Old 5th Feb 2024, 20:31
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MY bad, of course Turkey.
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Old 5th Feb 2024, 22:42
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The Manchurian Candidate ...

...
From the Kyiv Post Jan 31st 2024 ...- ... https://www.kyivpost.com/opinion/27402

Article by Andrei Piontkovsky ...
Donald Trump winning the November general election in the US would be a dangerous disaster for the US, Ukraine, and the West, essentially installing an instrument of the Kremlin in power in Washington, much like in the classic “The Manchurian Candidate” novel and subsequent films.
...
LFH
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Old 6th Feb 2024, 00:17
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An interesting perspective on the question of nukes.

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Old 11th Feb 2024, 06:55
  #49 (permalink)  
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https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...dont-pay-bills

Donald Trump says he would encourage Russia to attack Nato allies who pay too little
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Old 11th Feb 2024, 07:26
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Putin was looking at attacking Japan and possibly even taking Hokkaido, but then switched focus to Ukraine.

Trump used to complain constantly that Japan was not paying for the upkeep of US bases in Japan, as if he had heard nothing about the heavy and increasing subsidies US bases already receive there.

This latest outburst (on top of the US Steel buyout block) sounds as if he is encouraging Putin to attack 'NATO allies' anywhere, even, or especially, in Asia.
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Old 11th Feb 2024, 09:32
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"Donald Trump says he would encourage Russia to attack Nato allies who pay too little"

Suggests that Trump cannot count as far as 5; article 5 of the NATO charter.
Conversely if you break a commitment then who will trust whom.
'Trust and verify - carry a big stick', but waving a big stick at your allies does not ensure that trust will follow, nor that the resultant situation will reduce US costs long term.
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Old 11th Feb 2024, 15:28
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Originally Posted by safetypee
"Donald Trump says he would encourage Russia to attack Nato allies who pay too little"

Suggests that Trump cannot count as far as 5; article 5 of the NATO charter.
Conversely if you break a commitment then who will trust whom.
'Trust and verify - carry a big stick', but waving a big stick at your allies does not ensure that trust will follow, nor that the resultant situation will reduce US costs long term.
Like much of what Trump says and does, I have a certain amount of sympathy for what I believe he tries to achieve but he is about as subtle as a train crash in his execution.
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Old 11th Feb 2024, 15:36
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Originally Posted by BANANASBANANAS
Like much of what Trump says and does, I have a certain amount of sympathy for what I believe he tries to achieve but he is about as subtle as a train crash in his execution.
What?!

You have sympathy for the view that you should encourage Russia to attack NATO states that don't meet the 2% commitment?

Insane...
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Old 11th Feb 2024, 15:44
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Originally Posted by pr00ne
What?!

You have sympathy for the view that you should encourage Russia to attack NATO states that don't meet the 2% commitment?

Insane...
I think BANANASBANANAS was categorising Trump's 'encouragement' of Russia as poor execution rather than sympathy......
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Old 11th Feb 2024, 15:45
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Originally Posted by Andy_S
I think BANANASBANANAS was categorising Trump's 'encouragement' of Russia as poor execution rather than sympathy......
Still insane...
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Old 11th Feb 2024, 15:49
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Originally Posted by BANANASBANANAS
I have a certain amount of sympathy for what I believe he tries to achieve
You sound as if you think he's actually motivated by something other than "what's in it for me?"
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Old 11th Feb 2024, 15:51
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Originally Posted by BANANASBANANAS
Like much of what Trump says and does, I have a certain amount of sympathy for what I believe he tries to achieve but he is about as subtle as a train crash in his execution.
Most of what Trump spouts is made up childish unverifiable rhetoric. He is extremely dangerous and should be kept out of power.
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Old 11th Feb 2024, 16:59
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"Most of what Trump spouts is made up childish unverifiable rhetoric. He is extremely dangerous and should be kept out of power."

Most of what Trump............ IMHO I would say ALL of what he sprouts is..............

In the same vain, IMHO, I would say Biden is in the same boat. But that's American politics and, i think, the mindset of the American voter led by the "catchy one liners" and glitzy rallies.
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Old 11th Feb 2024, 18:00
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Rather ironic that Trump is castigating organizations for not paying their bills, when he is notorious for stifling everyone that does business with him, including his own lawyers.
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Old 11th Feb 2024, 18:11
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Regression of Thought

"But that's American politics and, i think, the mindset of the American voter led by the "catchy one liners" and glitzy rallies."

Regression of Thought:
'
Democracy is in crisis on every continent:…' ' … an increasingly technocratic world, the progress of knowledge is unable to conceive the complexity of reality, especially human realities. This leads to a return of dogmatisms and fanaticisms, as well as a crisis of morality with the unleashing of hatreds and idolatries.'
https://footnotes2plato.com/2024/02/03/the-progress-of-knowledge-has-led-to-a-regression-of-thought-by-edgar-morin

Also Truth:
'We are rapidly becoming prototypes of a people that totalitarian monsters could only drool about in their dreams. All the dictators up to now have had to work hard at suppressing the truth.
We, by our actions, are saying that this is no longer necessary, that we have acquired a spiritual mechanism that can denude truth of any significance.
In a very fundamental way we, as a free people, have freely decided that we want to live in some post-truth world.”
https://blogs.nottingham.ac.uk/makin...and-post-fake/

"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." Macbeth
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