Foreign pilots now allowed to apply for a Green Card?

[awair]

Sorry 737pilotguy , not intending to seem like correcting homework

Originally Posted by 737pilotguy

I'd suggest contacting some lawyers to evaluate your suitability if you are serious about pursuing this option, don't only ask on forums.

I would suggest that the forums are the only place that might advise to "try it yourself".
(My opinion, is to find the right lawyer ($8-10k?: we are talking about time & seniority, so it will pay back in time.)

Originally Posted by 737pilotguy

Pilots rarely make the best "experts," despite what they'll tell you...

Absolutely correct!
And we are not always good about decisions outside the cockpit.

Originally Posted by 737pilotguy

An advanced degree does NOT necessarily mean a degree higher than a bachelors.

Wrong - that is the exact definition of an Advanced Degree (see link below).
Note also about the link to the 'professions' for EB2-NIW.

Originally Posted by 737pilotguy

Experience can give substantial merit to your case and USCIS is very clear on that.

Yes; Bachelors degree plus 5 years, considered equivalent (see link below).

Originally Posted by 737pilotguy

Furthermore, your success at USCIS will depend on the presentation of your case, your credentials

Originally Posted by 737pilotguy

(it doesn't hurt to have any non-US degrees evaluated to US equivalency), your experience, and the case officer reviewing your petition.

Would appear to be mandatory for foreign degree to be formally evaluated (see link below).

Originally Posted by 737pilotguy

They have alot of discretion in their determination.

They have to follow US law, and be convinced that your application 'ticks the boxes'.
Your lawyer should make sure that little is left to discretion.

Good luck everyone.

https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/...rt-f-chapter-5

[JoseLeon]

Originally Posted by awair

They have to follow US law, and be convinced that your application 'ticks the boxes'.
Your lawyer should make sure that little is left to discretion.

Unfortunately, this is not a box checking exercise and it's not as black and white as we would like it to be. Even with all the boxes checked, there's still a discretionary component based on the totality of the circumstances. There have been a substantial amount of RFE's and denials coming down in the last few months. In addition to attacking the exceptional abilities of pilots, there are also plenty of denials attacking the proposed endeavors and national importance of it.

I speculate that there is lobbying behind closed doors trying to minimize the EB2 NIW for pilots.

Good luck to all!

[Commuting101]

Originally Posted by JoseLeon

Unfortunately, this is not a box checking exercise and it's not as black and white as we would like it to be. Even with all the boxes checked, there's still a discretionary component based on the totality of the circumstances. There have been a substantial amount of RFE's and denials coming down in the last few months. In addition to attacking the exceptional abilities of pilots, there are also plenty of denials attacking the proposed endeavors and national importance of it.

I speculate that there is lobbying behind closed doors trying to minimize the EB2 NIW for pilots.

Good luck to all!

Hi Jose,

With the above in mind - how is the current retrogression of the EB2 going to affect things? Are those that are a month or two behind the current priority date going to wait an extra month or 2 or longer or years? What is the current time frame clients are being told from start to finish if all goes well?

All seems to becoming a very very long process even if you are not turned down by the USCIS.

Thank you

[JoseLeon]

Originally Posted by Commuting101

how is the current retrogression of the EB2 going to affect things? Are those that are a month or two behind the current priority date going to wait an extra month or 2 or longer or years? What is the current time frame clients are being told from start to finish if all goes well?

If you are a month or two from the priority date, then you are almost there. You also have to consider the consulate’s processing delays (they are all different). I’m telling my clients to plan on approximately two years from the moment they hire me.

Also, due to the retrogression, I’m not recommending premium processing.

[Amadis of Gaul]

Originally Posted by JoseLeon

I speculate that there is lobbying behind closed doors trying to minimize the EB2 NIW for pilots.

Ya think?

[Commuting101]

Originally Posted by JoseLeon

If you are a month or two from the priority date, then you are almost there. You also have to consider the consulate’s processing delays (they are all different). I’m telling my clients to plan on approximately two years from the moment they hire me.

Also, due to the retrogression, I’m not recommending premium processing.

I understand. Thanks.

Are you expecting the retrogression to worsen or to continue to move forward towards current as it has in the latest bulletin? I’m struggling to understand how this works as from what I read, there is more supply than demand, particularly with the new fiscal year from October? Last thing you’d want is for it to worsen after applying as this pilot shortage and requirement for foreigners won’t last very long.

[JoseLeon]

Originally Posted by Commuting101

I understand. Thanks.

Are you expecting the retrogression to worsen or to continue to move forward towards current as it has in the latest bulletin? I’m struggling to understand how this works as from what I read, there is more supply than demand, particularly with the new fiscal year from October? Last thing you’d want is for it to worsen after applying as this pilot shortage and requirement for foreigners won’t last very long.

I don’t have any expectations.

As long as you are approved, then it’s an exercise in having tactical patience. Any change in the pilot shortage will not have any bearing on your ability to adjust. Regardless, the pilot shortage is not going anywhere.

I’m an AA pilot and last I checked we are losing around 800-900 a year. Unless WWIII kicks off, the pilot shortage is not going anywhere anytime soon.

[Kakar khan]

Hi, can you dilate upon the chances of obtaining EB2 NIW specifically with regard to establishing the fact that proposed endeavour is of national interest,

Is it not in the national interest to help in easing shortage by becoming an airline pilot in US because in my opinion this is the best an experience pilot can offer.

what can be other option ( except for test pilot) which can make ones proposed endeavour and case stronger with high probability of success.

[JoseLeon]

Originally Posted by Kakar khan

Hi, can you dilate upon the chances of obtaining EB2 NIW specifically with regard to establishing the fact that proposed endeavour is of national interest,

Unfortunately, this is entirely subjective. I have seen RFEs that more or less attack everything, to include the that the proposed endeavor is not of national importance.

Is it not in the national interest to help in easing shortage by becoming an airline pilot in US because in my opinion this is the best an experience pilot can offer.

It is. However, they seem to be leaning towards unique pilot profiles. Being an average airline pilot may not be sufficient to some examiners anymore.

what can be other option ( except for test pilot) which can make ones proposed endeavour and case stronger with high probability of success.

The strongest case is that of an advanced degree to bypass the whole exceptional abilities argument.

[bafanguy]

Originally Posted by JoseLeon

The strongest case is that of an advanced degree to bypass the whole exceptional abilities argument.

Does it make a difference in what academic discipline the degree was earned ? An advanced degree in underwater basket weaving would suffice for an aviation applicant ?

[JoseLeon]

Originally Posted by bafanguy

Does it make a difference in what academic discipline the degree was earned ? An advanced degree in underwater basket weaving would suffice for an aviation applicant ?

Aviation related unfortunately.

[flyer4life]

Originally Posted by JoseLeon

The strongest case is that of an advanced degree to bypass the whole exceptional abilities argument.

Hi, agreed but isn’t that regarding the EB2 requirements?

The three prongs of the NIW still need to be argued, particularly how to show that one’s own endeavours (not the aviation industry as a whole) are in the national interest?

I had an RFE on this very point, despite having advanced degree and 19 years in the industry. My lawyer and I did what we could with an expanded personal plan and an expert opinion letter, now I’m waiting for the answer from USCIS.

[JoseLeon]

Originally Posted by flyer4life

Hi, agreed but isn’t that regarding the EB2 requirements?

The three prongs of the NIW still need to be argued, particularly how to show that one’s own endeavours (not the aviation industry as a whole) are in the national interest?

I had an RFE on this very point, despite having advanced degree and 19 years in the industry. My lawyer and I did what we could with an expanded personal plan and an expert opinion letter, now I’m waiting for the answer from USCIS.

Correct. Let us know how it goes and good luck!

[rudestuff]

By the sound of it, it's all about convincing the person reviewing the case that you are exceptional, possibly someone with little aviation knowledge. British self depreciation and subtlety does not work with Americans, and an ATPLwith 20+ years of not crashing does not make you exceptional, you literally have to tell them that you invented TCAS...

[JoseLeon]

Originally Posted by rudestuff

By the sound of it, it's all about convincing the person reviewing the case that you are exceptional, possibly someone with little aviation knowledge. British self depreciation and subtlety does not work with Americans, and an ATPLwith 20+ years of not crashing does not make you exceptional, you literally have to tell them that you invented TCAS...

Correct. It's not the time to be humble.

[flyer4life]

Petition Denied

Well that's my EB2 NIW petition denied due to failing to prove my endeavors were in the national interest (prong 1) and that it is beneficial for US to waive labor certification requirement (prong 3). I initially had an RFE on those same points; I submitted a hugely expanded personal plan (which was mostly ignored by USCIS) and added a further detailed expert opinion letter arguing why I met the NIW requirements. I had a lawyer throughout the process who feels the USCIS is now being unfairly tough on pilot petitioners.

The EB2 part was accepted (with advanced degree) and NIW prong 2 (petitioner is well-positioned to advance proposed endeavor) was accepted.

I've got over 10k hours (mostly medium turbine P1), FAA and EASA ATPs, and nearly 20 years in the industry working at well-respected European airlines.

The sticking point seems to be how you can argue that your individual endeavors will have a national impact; it's no good talking about the pilot shortage and the national importance of the industry as a whole. It's about what you, personally, will do to have national impact. Simply being an airline pilot isn't enough.

[hunterboy]

Sadly, that makes sense…..I always imagined these visas were to attract experts in such things as AI and data mining, etc rather than filling a labour shortage?

[Comanche]

I applied for EB2 NIW (self petition) and had a RFE stating that although I had easily met EB criteria, I had not proved the three prongs of the NIW, particularly how to show that one’s own endeavours (not the aviation industry as a whole) are in the national interest. Have a Masters in Economics (aviation management), captain over 19 years 14k hours all jet (Boeing/Airbus), Airbus TRI 9+ years and had a letter of recommendation from head of training Airbus (friend of mine). I considered hiring Harvey Law Group lawyer (12k cost USD) after RFE request but ultimately withdrew my application as looking at the US airlines terms and conditions, despite the recent salary raises, it's just not worth it to me to make the move, especially at 50+ years starting as a junior pilot again. If you are 30-35 years old and are willing to put up with being junior and all its drawbacks (low starting salaries, potential commuting, terrible bid lines, little vacation, demotion to F/O etc etc) go for it. It all depends on which USCIS officer received your file, so you also need some luck. Age may have been a consideration, although the Harvey laywer mentioned that she recognized the USCIS officer ID nr and he had a reputation for being difficult.

[Sunrig]

Originally Posted by Comanche

I applied for EB2 NIW (self petition) and had a RFE stating that although I had easily met EB criteria, I had not proved the three prongs of the NIW, particularly how to show that one’s own endeavours (not the aviation industry as a whole) are in the national interest. Have a Masters in Economics (aviation management), captain over 19 years 14k hours all jet (Boeing/Airbus), Airbus TRI 9+ years and had a letter of recommendation from head of training Airbus (friend of mine). I considered hiring Harvey Law Group lawyer (12k cost USD) after RFE request but ultimately withdrew my application as looking at the US airlines terms and conditions, despite the recent salary raises, it's just not worth it to me to make the move, especially at 50+ years starting as a junior pilot again. If you are 30-35 years old and are willing to put up with being junior and all its drawbacks (low starting salaries, potential commuting, terrible bid lines, little vacation, demotion to F/O etc etc) go for it. It all depends on which USCIS officer received your file, so you also need some luck. Age may have been a consideration, although the Harvey laywer mentioned that she recognized the USCIS officer ID nr and he had a reputation for being difficult.

I would say it all depends on your attitude. It’s a big move to start all over again. Don’t let your ego get in the way of the opportunities right now. Almost all legacies offer an early upgrade to Captain or training positions. You will just need to get your 1000 hours 121 time. Also salaries are way higher than in Euroland. You can easily break 200K your second year and 300K year 3 if you take the early upgrade. But expect to work for that money. Good luck!

[Comanche]

I'm currently on the equivalent of approx 180k USD working 650 hrs a year on average, but if I take into account the generous retirement allowance it's the equivalent of about 220k USD with 6 weeks of paid leave, based where I want to be and unmatched job protection (France). Without any doubt, I agree that this is on the upper scale of what you can take home working for any European airline and it may well be worthwhile moving if you work for an airline in Europe with a pay towards the lower range.

Having said that, considering that it would take 18+ months to get the greencard and a job, at age 50+ one may never even become a captain again. As far as I'm concerned, it's too big a gamble, considering potential economic downturns or other events. If I were 30+ working for another airline I'd probably make the jump though.