Help! Moving to USA
Joined: Sep 2016
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From: N/A
"I’ve been told that Kalitta requires citizenship in order to gain a security clearance for their DoD contracts"
As a green card holder and British national I was treated as a "US person" for security purposes. I worked at a defense contractor's site on a military program without being a citizen and had the same access as a US citizen.
I have no doubt that there are security clearances that would require US citizenship but not all do.
As a green card holder and British national I was treated as a "US person" for security purposes. I worked at a defense contractor's site on a military program without being a citizen and had the same access as a US citizen.
I have no doubt that there are security clearances that would require US citizenship but not all do.
Don't worry about Kalitta, let Connie be Connie and do what ever they want too.
I too was a green card holder and British national, and was rejected by them.
Too many fish in the sea, to worry about one.
Sky Lease and National have 74s, and are looking for people.
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 481
Likes: 58
From: USA
Guaranteed flow through to a major?
How long have you been in this business !
Nothing is guaranteed ever.
When they tell you it is, they are lying.
Why would they lie?
To keep you in your place.
Now lets assume you get a regional job at a flow through to just one carrier.
Lets say your upgrade takes three years, and your lucky number takes another four.
Then that's been seven of waiting in a job you out grew many years before.
Do you turn down a job offer with a decent major like Southwest, JetBlue or Alaska?
Now you really do have all your eggs in one basket.
Now let's consider all the things that can, and do go wrong with that plan.
1/ Your company falls out of favor by the FAA.
2/ Your company falls out with the parent company.
3/ The parent company decides to close your airline or consolidate them.
4/ The parent company closes your hub
5/ A bidding war erupts between the regionals. First you take a pay cut, and then get downgraded.
6/ The parent company stops hiring.
7/ The parent company furloughs, and their people flow back on top of you.
Maybe you can think of a hundred and one more things that can and will happen.
Or you could do what I would.
Get a ATP and some airline training and experience and then move on.
I would rather spend my time at a supplemental carrier than a regional.
I think things will happen faster, you'll have more fun and make more money doing so.
How long have you been in this business !
Nothing is guaranteed ever.
When they tell you it is, they are lying.
Why would they lie?
To keep you in your place.
Now lets assume you get a regional job at a flow through to just one carrier.
Lets say your upgrade takes three years, and your lucky number takes another four.
Then that's been seven of waiting in a job you out grew many years before.
Do you turn down a job offer with a decent major like Southwest, JetBlue or Alaska?
Now you really do have all your eggs in one basket.
Now let's consider all the things that can, and do go wrong with that plan.
1/ Your company falls out of favor by the FAA.
2/ Your company falls out with the parent company.
3/ The parent company decides to close your airline or consolidate them.
4/ The parent company closes your hub
5/ A bidding war erupts between the regionals. First you take a pay cut, and then get downgraded.
6/ The parent company stops hiring.
7/ The parent company furloughs, and their people flow back on top of you.
Maybe you can think of a hundred and one more things that can and will happen.
Or you could do what I would.
Get a ATP and some airline training and experience and then move on.
I would rather spend my time at a supplemental carrier than a regional.
I think things will happen faster, you'll have more fun and make more money doing so.
Wholly owned with a flow is great insurance. Of course everyone is also looking elsewhere other than where the flow leads. Sure is a nice insurance plan though compared to being at Skywest or wherever that have been there 15+ years not getting calls by majors at all.
Lots of guys leaving for other legacy gigs outside of the flow, those that aren’t are within 12 months of flowing
Joined: Dec 2001
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,765
Likes: 424
From: GA, USA
Don't worry about Kalitta, let Connie be Connie and do what ever they want too.
I too was a green card holder and British national, and was rejected by them.
Too many fish in the sea, to worry about one.
Sky Lease and National have 74s, and are looking for people.
I too was a green card holder and British national, and was rejected by them.
Too many fish in the sea, to worry about one.
Sky Lease and National have 74s, and are looking for people.
And they take green card holders.
And they’re in the same business as Kalitta.
SkyGod
Joined: Aug 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 1,624
Likes: 108
From: Palm Coast, Florida, USA
Nah, stay away from Skylease.
They have been on the verge of the abyss several times recently.
Furloughs, re-calls, no pay checks, no money for fuel, parked planes, etc.
The. After hurricane Irma they got a boost flying relief to San Juan.
Bottom feeder, but quick upgrades and heavy time if you got nothing else going on, just don’t get married, don’t make kids and don’t take up too many mortgages
(
They have been on the verge of the abyss several times recently.
Furloughs, re-calls, no pay checks, no money for fuel, parked planes, etc.
The. After hurricane Irma they got a boost flying relief to San Juan.
Bottom feeder, but quick upgrades and heavy time if you got nothing else going on, just don’t get married, don’t make kids and don’t take up too many mortgages
(
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 565
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From: N/A
No !!!!! Sherlock, thanks for being captain obvious.
Wholly owned with a flow is great insurance. Of course everyone is also looking elsewhere other than where the flow leads. Sure is a nice insurance plan though compared to being at Skywest or wherever that have been there 15+ years not getting calls by majors at all.
Lots of guys leaving for other legacy gigs outside of the flow, those that aren’t are within 12 months of flowing
Wholly owned with a flow is great insurance. Of course everyone is also looking elsewhere other than where the flow leads. Sure is a nice insurance plan though compared to being at Skywest or wherever that have been there 15+ years not getting calls by majors at all.
Lots of guys leaving for other legacy gigs outside of the flow, those that aren’t are within 12 months of flowing
A claim was made. I made a rebuttal.
No, a flow through is not great insurance, when it’s a false insurance designed to lure you into a false sense of security. Just like the advertisement that uses the phrase ‘peace of mind’. You know you’ve been had.
A friend went to Horizon many years ago, and became comfortable. Too comfortable, and he stayed. Oh he talked about going to Alaska, but never seemed to do much about getting there.
Now if he had realized the hard truths of the of the regional business, and picked the worst one with the fastest upgrade. Then every day he’d be scrambling to get out.
A crappy company is a great motivator for upward mobility.
You plan your next move whilst your in ground school, and you make it happen.
You only have yourself to blame of it doesn’t.
For these are the best times I’ve ever known.
If your still at Skywest after 15 years, your not trying.
You can’t just send stuff out and wait for a call.
You have to work the phones and pound the pavement too.
I used to have a rule, that every day I had to do something to better my lot in life.
You know what? It worked.
Last edited by button push ignored; 21st December 2017 at 13:28.
Joined: Nov 2005
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From: On the screen in front of you
You might wish to consider one of the bottom feeder A320 operators such Jetblue. I’ve been told they’ve taken guys from Cebu Pacific, PAL, Avianca and the likes. Might be something to consider until you can get a degree and go to a reputable airline.
Best of luck to you
Best of luck to you
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 481
Likes: 58
From: USA
I can do without the No Sn*t Sherlock, Captain obvious comment.
A claim was made. I made a rebuttal.
No, a flow through is not great insurance, when it’s a false insurance designed to lure you into a false sense of security. Just like the advertisement that uses the phrase ‘peace of mind’. You know you’ve been had.
A friend went to Horizon many years ago, and became comfortable. Too comfortable, and he stayed. Oh he talked about going to Alaska, but never seemed to do much about getting there.
Now if he had realized the hard truths of the of the regional business, and picked the worst one with the fastest upgrade. Then every day he’d be scrambling to get out.
A crappy company is a great motivator for upward mobility.
You plan your next move whilst your in ground school, and you make it happen.
You only have yourself to blame of it doesn’t.
For these are the best times I’ve ever known.
If your still at Skywest after 15 years, your not trying.
You can’t just send stuff out and wait for a call.
You have to work the phones and pound the pavement too.
I used to have a rule, that every day I had to do something to better my lot in life.
You know what? It worked.
A claim was made. I made a rebuttal.
No, a flow through is not great insurance, when it’s a false insurance designed to lure you into a false sense of security. Just like the advertisement that uses the phrase ‘peace of mind’. You know you’ve been had.
A friend went to Horizon many years ago, and became comfortable. Too comfortable, and he stayed. Oh he talked about going to Alaska, but never seemed to do much about getting there.
Now if he had realized the hard truths of the of the regional business, and picked the worst one with the fastest upgrade. Then every day he’d be scrambling to get out.
A crappy company is a great motivator for upward mobility.
You plan your next move whilst your in ground school, and you make it happen.
You only have yourself to blame of it doesn’t.
For these are the best times I’ve ever known.
If your still at Skywest after 15 years, your not trying.
You can’t just send stuff out and wait for a call.
You have to work the phones and pound the pavement too.
I used to have a rule, that every day I had to do something to better my lot in life.
You know what? It worked.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
From: Ormond Beach
I agree with everything you’re saying and I’m doing exactly that myself. But to say the flow is useless is a false statement, say that to the guys currently flowing now that never got a call that have the right resume, did all the job fairs, networked, no skeletons etc. we have jumpseaters all the time from companies without flow through that time and time again say they wish they went to a wholly owned with a flow.
I'm sure they wish that, even though they have no way of knowing when (or if) they would have flowed had they been with said regional.
To me, these "flows" really benefit largely only those pilots who would have had little to no chance of going to the relevant mainline operator in the absence of such an arrangement. At the same time, it actually (in my opinion) handicaps those pilots who could have got in on merit, because they have to wait for their number to come up. In the meantime, the world can flip twenty (or more) times.
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 565
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From: N/A
You might wish to consider one of the bottom feeder A320 operators such Jetblue. I’ve been told they’ve taken guys from Cebu Pacific, PAL, Avianca and the likes. Might be something to consider until you can get a degree and go to a reputable airline.
Best of luck to you
Best of luck to you
To maintain it you must remain a resident of the US.
You can not go to work in Asia or South America and keep your green card active.
Joined: Feb 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,689
Likes: 118
From: USA
It's likely as hard to get hired by JB as any other career-destination carrier.
Last edited by bafanguy; 22nd December 2017 at 20:04.
Joined: Dec 2001
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,765
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From: GA, USA
Joined: Mar 2005
Aviation Qualifications: Military
Posts: 6,563
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From: Aus
A little off thread, but I've always been amused by the insistence in the US to have a degree. The OP has all the experience, but lacks a degree. He can obviously do the job. Did my flight training as a foreign student (some 40 of us) with the USN, all of us with just high school education, and no one had any troubles, though the USN demanded a degree for the natives to apply.
Joined: Feb 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,689
Likes: 118
From: USA
This has been much discussed (with a case to be made on both sides) but it all comes down to one fact of life: the airline Cubicle Farms at many of the most desirable carriers have decreed it so.
It's their party so they decide who gets invited. You can certainly find the occasional exception but it's pervasive enough to consider it The Law of the Jungle.
Even among those carriers who list it as "preferred", at this moment in history, I'd venture a guess that most of your competition WILL have one. Competition at the legacy level is amazingly fierce. Legions of very good applicants can't get so much as the steam off the legacy airlines' yellow snow.
I've not seen any data on what percentage of otherwise qualified applicants have degrees vs not. It might be enlightening to see that data if it even exists.
If those alleging a pilot shortage are correct, many carriers may have to drop the inviolable demand for a degree; that remains to be seen.
SEATS WILL BE FILLED !!! Bet the grocery money on that one.
DL's hiring manager recently stated at a meeting with a group of affiliated pilots that DL will NEVER drop the degree requirement. Take that for what it's worth...
Joined: Dec 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 3,984
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From: Where the Quaboag River flows, USA
I had the good fortune to be coached forty-five plus years by senior TW and PA captains. The happy result of growing up and learning to fly in Fairfield County, CT. One TW training captain told me, having grumbled about pilot selection process, was shown a filing cabinets of applications. The VP Operstions and Personnel told him, “sort it out.” As Kenny said, “if you’re trying to whittle down thousands of applications to hundreds to be interviewed for tens to be hired, a good place to start is college education.” Get your degree, he advised.
Besides, if the job is considered a “profession”, a college degree sounds professional. Execs with MBAs are more willing to cough up 300k for college grads than high school grads.
True then, true now.
GF
Besides, if the job is considered a “profession”, a college degree sounds professional. Execs with MBAs are more willing to cough up 300k for college grads than high school grads.
True then, true now.
GF
Joined: Mar 2005
Aviation Qualifications: Military
Posts: 6,563
Likes: 953
From: Aus
It's OK, I get it that it's their train set and can set the goal posts where ever they like. Just had a friends son (Navy), high school education, graduate from military pilots course and did so well that the Air Force asked him to swap service and fly the F-18. We've had guys with nothing more than high school go through USN, USAF and ETPS test pilot courses. Horses for courses I guess.
Wonder if the degree requirement would last if the pilot shortage gets as bad as some predict.
Don't know the quality of college education in the US, but here you can get a degree in left handed basket weaving, if you get my drift.
Wonder if the degree requirement would last if the pilot shortage gets as bad as some predict.
a college degree sounds professional
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5,896
Likes: 1
From: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
The two big clubs at Pan Am were Yale and the Naval Academy. In the 1980's Pan Am merged National Airlines and a commuter airline named Ransome onto their pilot seniority list. The rather patrician Pan Am pilots looked down their noses at the other pilots because they came to dinner without wearing their school ties.
Joined: Feb 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,689
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From: USA
I agree. The ability of a bright, motivated person w/o a college degree to do the job is NOT in dispute. As you point out, there's plenty of empirical evidence to support their suitability.
That's leaves nothing at work in these cases but the people who own the train set...and their ability to call the shots.
I'd suspect that the degree requirement will fall if/when supply gets to the point the business plan is threatened..."IF" "WHEN". At that point airline managements will massage their rhetoric to magically pronounce H.S. grads as terrific candidates with no reference to what this demonstrates about their previous stance on the matter.
In the meantime, how many good candidates did they pass over...and will they rue not having access to them any longer ?
Joined: May 2015
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From: Canada
No hassles at the border and no immigration judge would question where I reside.