A320 TRTOs in USA

[Vc10Tail]

Please can anyone narrate their training experience ( preferably recently) with either of the following 3 TRTOs ( preferably on A320 TR)

PanAm

Aerostar

Aerosim

Pros and cons welcomed.

Cheers

[Valmont]

VC10, I've been in contact with all of them and to be honest Aerosim seems to be the most professional.
I'm looking for an A320 PIC Express Type Rating as I've more than 500h on the A320 using another ICAO licence. I'm looking for a training partner, would you by any chance be in the same position ?

Regards

[NGFellow]

Did a recurrent on the B737NG once at Pan Am. Not impressed.

[Masagemarad]

Go with PanAm they have been around the longest and all the others do not own there sims they rent them from Panam or Airbus in Miami.

[Vc10Tail]

Originally Posted by Valmont

VC10, I've been in contact with all of them and to be honest Aerosim seems to be the most professional.
I'm looking for an A320 PIC Express Type Rating as I've more than 500h on the A320 using another ICAO licence. I'm looking for a training partner, would you by any chance be in the same position ?

Regards

Hallo Valmont.Apologies for late reply. I did extensive research and have to agree that Aerosim, followed by Aerostar provide the best quality A320 training.They own their sims.FTI rents but they get you through the fastest and cheapest.Pan Am are the most flexible and if doing a combi CTP /ATP then type rating..better do it at Pan Am or Aerostar. Aerosim and Aerostar a little Money minded though provide best ground school support with Aerosim #1 on one on one training but will cost 2 grand more to train without partner.Pam Am is most responsive even if sounding unfriendly at times.They dont charge you if you are late late in joining your training from ctp atp..they help to with sim partners.other places you might have to cough up $$$.As far as repute panam had mixed reviews from thise that went there ( good n bad). Its facilities are more basic. So if in a rush and have dobe your homework.. Go to FTI. If you have $8k to spare for quality training go Aerosim..Aerostar takes Silver and Pan Am bronze.Pan Am have improved on their sims.They are all level D now. Before they used to let you ride on level C and provide its big latin american airline customers with level D. So if budget constrained and not rushed Pan Am offers best value for money bit you will not get a very attendtive training compared to Aerosim or Aerostar. For you and your 500 hr on type Valmont, you can buy the ipad CBT from Aerosim but do your training at FTI.Is the PIC Express the reduced training for those with experience in type? I did the A320 training 5 years ago but never flew so I would rather go the FTI way Also for budget. Aerosim expensive and too regimented even with type if visa you should have. Am working on my visa but dont think I will take the American option for now.I want to convert to EASA and perhaps ride a line training deal. Looks like EASA gets jobs easier outdide USA compared yo any other license...but to get it...
Its a sweat job even if you have foreign ATPL with jet experience.Not for the faint hearted.

[Masagemarad]

I did my Initial with Panam and tried the others for recurrent and it was a huge mistake after finding out out the other wannabe Aerostar TRTO was started from a sales guy Dave Santo who used to be at PanAm.
I got there and found the same manuals all copied and pasted very cheap and unethical if only Boeing and Airbus knew what they were doing they would be shut down.
For a new pilot getting his or her first Type I would stay away.

[Vc10Tail]

Aerostar

Thank you masagenarad. Nice catch! I was going to post something good about Dave Santo.He seemed dilugent though.

So I did find Aerostar quick to use their legal card in case of rescheduling difficulties etc
.which I found not friendly at best.Pan Am were far better.

As per my post above ( before masagemarad's) the silver mefal goes to Pan Am...but might be a tie break with FTI. Who can comment about their experience at FTI? 2 folks I know that went there were very satisfied. Only draw back..no home study CBT.You read manuals and cram the patterns, limitations,SOPs the old school way. You work very hard..but you do finish VERY quickly. No CTP/ATP offered is the major draw back I saw.

Originally Posted by Masagemarad

I did my Initial with Panam and tried the others for recurrent and it was a huge mistake after finding out out the other wannabe Aerostar TRTO was started from a sales guy Dave Santo who used to be at PanAm.
I got there and found the same manuals all copied and pasted very cheap and unethical if only Boeing and Airbus knew what they were doing they would be shut down.
For a new pilot getting his or her first Type I would stay away.

[flying headbutt]

Didn't like the attitude of FTI saleswoman so pulled the plug. She was aggressive and rude. Hello, I am a client! Would never even consider them. You pay peanuts, you get monkeys.....although they weren't cheap either.

[Masagemarad]

Well said about fTI also they are are also just another bottom feeder they just have been around longer. They to were also started by former UAL workers same thing plagiarized course material and curriculum from the airline and manufacturer. I did a recurrent there back in 1997 once was enough for me to much drama.
Aerostar's Dave Santo is bad news stay away your training will be worthless go with PanAm or go straight to Airbus for your training.

[Quazar]

Aerostar

I can not call Smiling Dave a crook...legally. But (from my experience) he displays all the qualities of one. He sold me recurrent program and then could not produce examiner that was current with FAA. Lost my contract and bonus because Aerostar could not do a legal 61.58 for the training and my contract required it. I choose Aerostar specifically for that purpose, after all most foreign contracts require a current PC (OPC) and every "recurrent Training program" in USA includes one.

Smiling Dave's reply..."hey, you got the sim time". There was no guarantee of a 61.58. Even though his website's adverted "recurrent program" included a P/C (OPC) Dave's opinion is that you don't need a 61.58. Just training records. The adverted site listed the program as recurrency program and training records are good enough.

Aerostar....check to see whats missing in your contract training agreement.

Panam, used them many times. Hit and miss. Once got a 24 year kid with 400 hours total. He was the best sim guy I ever saw there. One of the best I ever had. They let him go because he didn't have ATP.
Once got a USAirways throw-away. Tried to BS his way through the program...I walked out and went to higher power in DFW....great outfit until a another outfit bought them. Last time I used Panam on the Bus program, I got a contract guy from another training facility. He was sharp guy, but was not really into the gig. Though the program manager is a sharp guy. But he doubles between a full time airline job and running the param program. He is not there everyday and can be difficult to deal with issues immediately.

AeroSim is also hot and cold. Can be good or bad, depending on who you get there. Personally the guy that started Aerosim hosed me 20 year ago and I never forget that. So I would not recommend him to anybody.

Really though, wherever you go consider these:
Sim availability....Panam anf Boeing have the most. Your sim goes down or has scheduling problems...what are the options. Though the Orlando sims are nice, Jet blue keeps them busy.

Alliance used to be good, but their top guy is into the $$$ and does little daily instruction anymore, usually just admin and check rides.. As well, they are into the bulk contracts and shying away from the solo guys.
Instructors....Do you have a guy or gal that is just punching the clock, or a person that is sincerely into teaching. Does your instructor have the interest or ability to modify their methods to match your style of learning? Or, have you got a 1960's air force instructor that is Pssed off at the World and broke.

Sim partners, always a grab bag situation. Param will provide a guy Named George if you need pay for support....he is good and knows how to help you without interrupting the training sequence.

Wherever you go, check the contract throughly and ask questions.....because it is like dealing with your ex. Once you slip the ring on her, you cant back out.

These comments represent my actual experiences, they are not suggest opinions.