FAA English Proficient
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: USA
FAA English Proficient
Can someone please tell me what the "English Proficient" on your FAA ATP amounts to. Is it equivalent to ICAO English Level 4 ,5 or 6?
Also is there any documentation supporting that?
Thanks
Also is there any documentation supporting that?
Thanks
Joined: Nov 2007
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: Texas
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 194
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From: Here
Well since all FAA licenses are ICAO you can increase you ICAO English level by doing a test called TEA (Test of English for Aviation). The FAA will never change their format but outside the US you can show this certificate parallel to your FAA license ... It is probably a temporary solution but I've seen people appreciating the effort at least!
Joined: Mar 2011
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From: china
As Markerinbound wrote, we are a level 4 by default, as per the FAA directive. It gets even more fun. If you look at your license, the "English Proficient" is not under "ratings", it is under "limitations". That means to some countries that your "english proficient" is a limitation, which means you suck at english!!!! No kidding.
Why, the wise-man asks? You really want the answer? The FAA bought a software package to make new licenses. When they tried to put "english proficient" on the licenses, the software would only allow them to put it under "limitations".
An even better question? Why do I know this? I had to learn it to get a job. English proficient means level 4, which most countries hiring expats now know. It is in the limitations section because the software will only allow them to do it that way.
Even more surprising? I know all this because the FAA guys doing licensing and such are extremely professional, knowledgeable, and helpful. I can't say enough good things about them.
If you are having a problem with a job, give-em a call. You will be surprised at how helpful they are.
Why, the wise-man asks? You really want the answer? The FAA bought a software package to make new licenses. When they tried to put "english proficient" on the licenses, the software would only allow them to put it under "limitations".
An even better question? Why do I know this? I had to learn it to get a job. English proficient means level 4, which most countries hiring expats now know. It is in the limitations section because the software will only allow them to do it that way.
Even more surprising? I know all this because the FAA guys doing licensing and such are extremely professional, knowledgeable, and helpful. I can't say enough good things about them.
If you are having a problem with a job, give-em a call. You will be surprised at how helpful they are.
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 369
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From: Well thats a big volcano...
USMC your actually wrong there,...
According to ICAO Annex 1 the FAA is putting the words English Proficient in the limitations section correctly. This is where the ICAO say it should go!
Also the words "English Proficient " also surprisingly follow the ICAO guidelines, and the reason there is no date after it is because we are classed as a Level 6.
BUT reading that INFO they clearly state we are all automatically level 4.. if that is so there has to be a expiry date of 3 yrs after it if they are complying with the ICAO.... although that is a INFO notice... not a law or rule as I understand it.
All this info is available online, although not all in the one place
According to ICAO Annex 1 the FAA is putting the words English Proficient in the limitations section correctly. This is where the ICAO say it should go!
Also the words "English Proficient " also surprisingly follow the ICAO guidelines, and the reason there is no date after it is because we are classed as a Level 6.
BUT reading that INFO they clearly state we are all automatically level 4.. if that is so there has to be a expiry date of 3 yrs after it if they are complying with the ICAO.... although that is a INFO notice... not a law or rule as I understand it.
All this info is available online, although not all in the one place
Person Of Interest
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 842
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From: Keystone Heights, Florida
Well, the last issue date of my ATP was 1992...(for a new type rating...original in 1987...) Anyway, I stopped flying 2003, so does this mean that if I get a current Class I and do my 3 TOL's, I have to get a new (Piece of Paper) from the FAA to carry on my person to excercise the "priviledge" of said certificate???
I know the new one's are plastic, i.e.-credit card style, but would I need the birth cert., fingerprints, photos (at $15 from Wallgreens), etc... and how/where would I take an English Lang Test??? Just to get an "endorsement"??? More importantly, why should I???...Total B.S.
That's one reason I don't fly anymore...I miss it, but I love my sanity more...
By The Way, re-reading the thread, I realize I may have misspoke...Many Americans (born and raised in the USA) can't be understood either...ever been to the deep south or new england...??
Do they know "Aviation English" worldwide???
Just because one speaks English doesn't mean they have the ability to operate into Chad or Tunisia, even though those controllers are generally good and speak "Aviation English"...i.e-"Report Overhead"...OK, we request a straight-in...Runway in sight..."Roger Approved...report overhead..."
I know the new one's are plastic, i.e.-credit card style, but would I need the birth cert., fingerprints, photos (at $15 from Wallgreens), etc... and how/where would I take an English Lang Test??? Just to get an "endorsement"??? More importantly, why should I???...Total B.S.
That's one reason I don't fly anymore...I miss it, but I love my sanity more...
By The Way, re-reading the thread, I realize I may have misspoke...Many Americans (born and raised in the USA) can't be understood either...ever been to the deep south or new england...??
Do they know "Aviation English" worldwide???
Just because one speaks English doesn't mean they have the ability to operate into Chad or Tunisia, even though those controllers are generally good and speak "Aviation English"...i.e-"Report Overhead"...OK, we request a straight-in...Runway in sight..."Roger Approved...report overhead..."
Last edited by DownIn3Green; 9th December 2011 at 01:13.
Joined: Nov 2007
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: Texas
Yes, your piece of paper certificate is no longer valid. You would need to send in to OKC for a replacement and include a check. You took the language test during your flight test, no further testing is required. I don't understand why you are asking about fingerprints and photos and birth certificate. You would need a current medical, the new card and you would have to complete a flight review with an instructor. As part of the flight review you'd get at least three landings.
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: The Far Side
http://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviat.../info08012.pdf
It's Level 4, "officially". It will expire, "officially", three years after the date of issue on your license. No one in FAA intended that this be so, but at least one country wants their FAA-licensed expats to take an English proficiency exam based on this interpretation. To my knowledge no CAA is hassling US airline pilots flying international over this, yet. I expect FAA will do some sort of a change soon, but what it will be I have no idea. The workaround is to order a replacement license every three years - it'll have a new issue date.
It's Level 4, "officially". It will expire, "officially", three years after the date of issue on your license. No one in FAA intended that this be so, but at least one country wants their FAA-licensed expats to take an English proficiency exam based on this interpretation. To my knowledge no CAA is hassling US airline pilots flying international over this, yet. I expect FAA will do some sort of a change soon, but what it will be I have no idea. The workaround is to order a replacement license every three years - it'll have a new issue date.
Person Of Interest
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 842
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From: Keystone Heights, Florida
MarkerIB, Thank You, but my comment was mainly "tongue-in-cheek" regarding all of the BS needed to replace your DL, SSAN Card, or Local Library Card for that matter in the US...
I do believe, however, that just because you speak and read English, you may not neccesarily be qualified to UNDERSTAND English as spoken by local controllers in foriegn (to us) countries...
Just a view from a Mid-East/Africa experienced Boeing Pilot...
I do believe, however, that just because you speak and read English, you may not neccesarily be qualified to UNDERSTAND English as spoken by local controllers in foriegn (to us) countries...
Just a view from a Mid-East/Africa experienced Boeing Pilot...
Joined: Mar 2011
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From: china
itsbrokenagain;
That info came from the guys that make the licenses in OK City. I tried to get them to publish a letter, like the "English Proficient" one, on their website to help get the foreign civil authorities to understand why it was put in the limits section.
They gave me some contact info, up their chain of command. I finally got the the walking talking proof the the "Peter Principal", and he got defensive and angry that someone in the world would question his wisdom.
That is all I know. I had to clarify this with 2 different (Vietnam, and China) civil authorities when I was looking for a job 4 years ago.
That info came from the guys that make the licenses in OK City. I tried to get them to publish a letter, like the "English Proficient" one, on their website to help get the foreign civil authorities to understand why it was put in the limits section.
They gave me some contact info, up their chain of command. I finally got the the walking talking proof the the "Peter Principal", and he got defensive and angry that someone in the world would question his wisdom.
That is all I know. I had to clarify this with 2 different (Vietnam, and China) civil authorities when I was looking for a job 4 years ago.
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2
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From: Bangkok
Hey guy, I have FAA and ICAO license and I made a conversion of FAA english proficient to be my ICAO level 4 also, but have a look at online airmen certificate you ask from FAA website online. FAA put English Proficient after the word "Rating" not a limitation. Hope it will help!
Last edited by Thamaroj; 22nd May 2012 at 05:34.
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 106
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From: Greensburg, PA
FAA English Proficient
This is really only applicable if you fly for a foreign carrier. No one in the USA cares which is part of the problem, I believe. If you just use the level 4 equivalent you will have to take the test again after 3 years if you are flying for a foreign carrier. Take the test, get your level 6 with no expiration date and move on. Interestingly enough the first time I took it in China I only got level 5. Guess the proctors English/Chinglish was better than mine...
