What shortage?
 

Hearing/reading from everywhere about pilot shortage. Current job market makes me wonder, what the hack they are talking about?
I am not German, nor the French, nor Spanish or Italian speaker able to apply for the legacies such as LHG, AF, IB, etc.. I am also not experienced on Airbus nor the Boeing.
Having about 8k hours including around 3k jet hours ranging from both - bizav and airline (acmi) operation.
And all of the sudden, me and many of my colleagues are simply falling thru the net of the commercial interest of operators. Late 30ties, early 40ties, old and experienced enough for the RHS and not experienced enough for the LHS.

Seeing youngsters coming freshly from the flight school right into the jetliners and keeping the experienced guys behind makes me wonder how much this industry deteriorated over last several years.

All about costs. Cadets are cheaper than experienced pilots.

Have you paid Ryanair for a type rating yet?

Do you have a U.K. licence and right to work there… Jet2 looking for TR Airbus pilots over the next couple of years…

Europe is an odd place in that regard, many operators seemingly preferring very low experience pilots.

If you are British, BA is hiring aggressively at the moment and doesn't care about your type rating, so long as you have 1500 hours on an aircraft type that satisfies ZFTT and flown this type in the last 12 months.
BA Euroflyer at Gatwick asks for 500 hours or 100 sectors on an aircraft type that satisfies ZFTT.

BA regularly hires experienced pilots like yourself.

Hope that helps?

I would say there is several factors. There is no pilot shortage in Europe. Yes, there is finally some demand and the bigger airlines hire hundreds of new pilots each per year, but we are far away from a real shortage, and i doubt it will ever happen in Europe like it does in the USA, where ALPA did run a very successful campaign using the families of the fatalities in a sad accident to push through their agenda into law and creating a real shortage.

And yes, airlines do prefer cadets. Some of them from their "own" cadet programs where people are selected before training and trained using the airlines SOPs from day one, so they do get an entry level pay cadet with a complete training record from pedestrian to airline pilot. And if they cannot get enough of those, they prefer type rated direct entry pilots with time on type on the line. Only the third category is for those that are willing to pay for a type rating.

We do see a certain discrepancy between the EU and the UK at the moment, which was to be expected as the UK is now a closed off market. If you have an UK license and right to live and work there (don't see any visa sponsoring currently), then i would suggest to try there, as there seems to be quite a demand in some airlines that do not necessarily expect pilots to have the correct typerating.

no. why should I?

i do have UK licence, however not right to work, nor to live.

thanks dude, unfortunately I am not qualified to work in UK although i hold both UK and EASA licence. Both with few various types and TRI :-)

well. that's true. until next AF477 perhaps?

I noticed too that there is no shortage for pilots that fall between cadet level and preretirement captains and it gets even worse if you are not type rated. In my former airline pay was the same for cadets and experienced FO's. EU is now a place to get some initial hours and then move to a better place or just be low paid bachelor and perhaps by age of 60 you will buy nice little eco studio flat on the outskirts. Its sad to see how experience is not appreciated in EU but it can change overnight like it did in US.

It’s all done under the guise of ‘diversity’ and the excuse that they have to recruit younger so they’re not accused of age discrimination. This is the Post Covid World where airlines are maximising rosters and profits by overlooking seniority and experience.

It’s shameful and will cost airlines more ultimately as there’s no loyalty as pilots will come and go.

Do you mean AF447? I didn't know that was flown by cadets.

<br /><br />another nail into the coffin of european pilot market is bringing-in the 3rd country pilots - mainly the South American and Ukrainian guys. Rumours from authorities are that there is a big pressure coming from the local goverments to validate or convert ICAO to EASA licences even without meeting the criterias contained in Part-FCL. Everything hidden under the exemptions reasoning the "pilot shortage" (famous cat beast airline)<br /><br />And let's break down, what opportunities actually we have in Europe. Ruling out all the legacies and mainlines which are recruiting only the locals, we have:<br />- bizav segment, where many of the captains I met in the simulator or in line ops would be below-average copilots in the airlines, or best pilot aces in the universe (means machos with military background who would not make it into the airlines). There are still some good places to be (e.g. NetJets, Vista - here a big question mark seeing the current development of the Air Hamburg, or if you are lucky, you have a good owner wiling to spend a bit more for a reasonable monthly salary of his crew)<br />- LoCos - draining you down to the last drop of your energy (yellow one) or even worse - placing you into some sh... hole somewehere in the post socialistic countries (in other words, complete Earthquake for your family and kids)<br />- ACMI - some strictly nationalistic (e.g. German one) and those, who are not are usually eastern-european companies driven by ASG or private individuals who are bringing-in the friends of their friends... Moreover usually claiming to own every second of your life in summer and starving in winter..

another nail into the coffin of european pilot market is bringing-in the 3rd country pilots - mainly the South American and Ukrainian guys. Rumours from authorities are that there is a big pressure coming from the local goverments to validate or convert ICAO to EASA licences even without meeting the criterias contained in Part-FCL. Everything hidden under the exemptions reasoning the "pilot shortage" (famous cat beast airline)

And let's break down, what opportunities actually we have in Europe. Ruling out all the legacies and mainlines which are recruiting only the locals, we have:
- bizav segment, where many of the captains I met in the simulator or in line ops would be below-average copilots in the airlines, or best pilot aces in the universe (means machos with military background who would not make it into the airlines). There are still some good places to be (e.g. NetJets, Vista - here a big question mark seeing the current development of the Air Hamburg, or if you are lucky, you have a good owner wiling to spend a bit more for a reasonable monthly salary of his crew)
- LoCos - draining you down to the last drop of your energy (yellow one) or even worse - placing you into some sh... hole somewehere in the post socialistic countries (in other words, complete Earthquake for your family and kids)
- ACMI - some strictly nationalistic (e.g. German one) and those, who are not are usually eastern-european companies driven by ASG or private individuals who are bringing-in the friends of their friends... Moreover usually claiming to own every second of your life in summer and starving in winter..

Check Airbaltic topic. Apparently they had 'diversity' recruitment drive and now under investigation for recent incidents involving inexperienced pilots.

i am not talking here about the cadets only. wasn't the accident caused by lack of the competence of crew to respond the type-related upset?

Air France is perhaps not the best example to examine the correlation between competence and terms and conditions.
Surely one of the remaining airlines with the best T&C in Europe.

I recently flew in Europe for a (non aviation) work contract. The company had booked a European LoCo flight for me. As I sometimes do, I asked to visit the cockpit after landing, just to get my fix of an Airbus FBW cockpit.

I was very surprised indeed that both pilots were extremely young, and the guy in the LHS was wearing two silver stripes, the guy in the RHS three stripes ???

The american pilot market is closed to externals due to rigid handling of the green card, while Europe rsp. European Community (EC) is open to everyone, and even within the EU there are sufficient numbers of pilots from Eastern Europe (most of the countries are meanwhile in the EC) helping filling gaps, if there are any.
There was never any "pilot shortage" nor will there be any in the future in Europe. Discussion about the effect, flying has on climate (so called "fly shame", thanks to "Greta" and her sponsors) and sharply rising prices for flights will rather adversely affect aviation in Europe and thus labour market.

Fewer stripes means less weight, better climb performance and lower fuel burn 👍

that could also mean that LTC was doing walkaround while second officer was sitting on the LHS as an observer before LIFUS. Other scenario could be that three striper was the safety pilot as the two striper was having one of his very first LIFUS sectors.

Stripes are a very unclear way of determining experience , you could have 5000hrs of flight time and join BA for example and be a 2 striper as you don’t have “BA” experience….

Indeed, stripes mean very little.
I've worn 2 stripes on the flight deck of a wide body jet where I had more command experience than the captain (4 stripes) and the senior FO (3 stripes) combined!

(this was a rare situation - the FO had been in the company many years, waiting for command - and the captain had recently completed his command training which was also his first command. I had maybe 5000hrs command time from GA and airlines).

They were both consummate professionals, as I would expect.

All the stripes tells you is the position in the company that pilot holds. And even that differs between companies.

No shortage or genuine demand in the UK I’d say, I have UK licence, right to work etc and I still can’t find work.

Interesting, in a time where everybody is hiring, fully sponsored cadet programs are coming back and even easyJet sponsors the type rating for non rated direct entry FOs. At least there seems to be a slightly higher demand there than in the EU, although Eurowings recently offered €30k signing bonus for DEC in Palma, Prag and Stockholm.

Every UK airline is recruiting like mad at the moment, there is a genuine shortage of qualified and experienced pilots. Maybe you’re doing something in mental in the assessment process?

that's the another odd side of the current selection process. What is the point for experienced guys to solve equations, sudoku or to play roleplays in the group exercises??

It’s their train set to decide how and who they want. Tbh, hopefully it nudges out all the CRM nightmares from getting in.

however as demand increases, standards will possibly have to fall.

What you are saying is just a whip on the pilots. i have seen many cases, where guy with very poor CRM skills made it to the Lead captain position or LTC just because he was looking handsome or was having the sweet chit chat with CEO of company :-)

Years ago I attended a screening in Interpersonal, Hamburg
Among us was an A380 pilot who wanted to move back to Europe
He was failed cause he didn't study enough the Skytest
Some years ago, these kind of interviews were just to block weirdos
Now any weirdo or whatever who has time to practice for long time all these tests that can buy online has good chances to pass any assessment

Reading the original post and all of the replies from the author here, I would say perhaps there’s a case of having a very large chip on your shoulder. May I suggest it’s this chip on your shoulder that’s holding back your career and not the cadets and/or the Airlines.

If it’s obvious here, it’ll absolutely stink in-front of a recruitment team.

I don't know how is the situation in Australia but if you follow European companies accounts you will see how proud they are that they have all woman or all non european crew
They post photos all the time
I guess that has also an impact in the selection
I opened a thread about nepotism in pilot selection
A poster that says that he flies for airbaltic admitted that he was hired despite he was not meeting the entry requirements
Food for thoughts

i have no hard feelings at all even it might sound like.
Everything I am sharing here is the experience i observed or experienced myself.

Well aren't you a little Ray of sunshine.

Take a look on my thread
https://www.pprune.org/interviews-jo...ispreloading=1

Pilots claiming that fly for a specific company admitted that were hired without meeting entry requirements
On a brand new fleet of A220 they had 3 runway excursions, one hard landing with AOG afterwards and descend before FAF ending up 800ft MSL at 6.5 nm before the threshold in brussels
One final report for excursion blames among others the pilot selection, rest are pending
..........
investigation has analysed the all available (provided) information about the training process of the pilot involved in the serious incident and suggests that there are potential gaps in the company pilots’ selection, training and checking programs,........

So it seems but no joy for me, clearly something is wrong with me somewhere but unfortunately i never get to know or learn because no feedback is given. I’ve been rejected by BA several times and rarely ever get past initial application for all airlines so I don’t know what mental I’m doing in the assessment process.
I apply for what they’re asking for at the time, I don’t have bucket loads of experience but I am qualified and ready to work. like someone posted earlier, it’s their train set and they can do whatever they like.

Take it with a pinch of salt when people say they can't get jobs. Just having a licence or even a licence with experience doesn't mean they have what they are looking for. Unfortunately someone has to come bottom of every class.

What are they looking for?
For people who don't meet entry requirements but still get invited and pass the assessment?
Or for 1.5m girls with piston experience?
btw since I was 18 years old ( Air Force Academy) I never stayed unemployed for more than 2 months
This doesn't prevent me to say what I see

It might sounds like i am unemployed :-) However it is not the case.