Don’t give up mate, there are opportunities out there apart from BA or Jet2. If you can make it work with the Luton or Gatwick base (recommend within 30mins drive) then Wizzair UK is expanding. Many on here will come back with negative comments I’m sure, but do your own research. Can’t be beaten for advancement opportunities. Command within a year or two subject to the hours you have.

Just my thoughts flymoy.

​​​​​​I work for Jet2 now. I only get involved in recruitment in the sim. We only report what we observe and have no info at all in how the rest of the process works.

I do know we use a scoring system, so perhaps your score met the minimum requirements for the pool. As more people are added, maybe they just had a clear out and dropped anyone below a certain score. I personally think that you should at least of had a generic email describing why you lost your place. Although I know the recruitment team are working flat out and maybe not a priority to them

I would apply again as the scoring is somewhat subjective. You never know next time round might score higher.

I got my first Airline job at 35 at Monarch. So you are definitely not too old.

There is a saying that it's better to be lucky than good. Although you get more lucky and good (at assessments) if you keep trying.

At least you have another career in the meantime.

Best of luck.
​​​​​​Cheers.

Im not involved in the process, I’m just saying what I would think could be a reason. Find a qualified scientist who knows how the brain works and ask them what science says about the chances of an older, low experienced pilot needing more training. Or ask an airline training department about their statistics.

I’m confident I could meet the benchmark for flying F35’s in the RAF, despite my age. Should I feel discriminated against if they don’t feel I’m worth taking a risk on compared to an 18-year-old?

The truth is, we live in the real world, not in one which serves our personal individual circumstances. I accept that these days such a statement will get me cancelled, so I offer my unreserved apologies in advance. That’s me out.

to be fair, the entire selection process by its very nature is a discriminatory one. How else do we sort out the good from the bad. I also believe anti discrimination activists are the reason companies do not provide feedback.

a sensible company would likely prefer a slightly older candidate as they are more likely to get some good years out of them rather than the new entry that is just trying to crack the hours for a job in the ME. Just MHO mind you….

All of Jet2 recruitment is graded, interview, group exercise, sim etc. You come out with a score that’s a yes or no to be put in a pile of maybes. If you haven’t worked that out then it’s a cold, harsh truth. Then the recruitment team have a quota to fill after a meeting possibly each month depending upon demand and supply. When the next course comes up they contact the top candidates(on that day) with start dates. If on that day you are not in the chosen few then so be it. If you have got through with a lower grade then unless they need you, there won’t be a call. Maybe you don’t understand or wish not to but you go to this selection against all the others that do until the offers go out. A ‘ yes’ is only a yes you have passed selection. In many jobs several candidates are suitable. In business the ones that get the jobs are the right fix on the right day. You may write back and say it’s not fair. If you think that is the answer it’s quite simple, we just up the pass mark. That way you will be told you are not good enough earlier. All recruiters work this way, demand and supply guys. Even the military work this way. Each candidate is graded. Sure on one day you get first choice pilot as the grades required are low due to an increase in activities that threaten our land, or a change of governments. Give it a few years later when we are all eating cardboard and he/she/it pronouns are normal you will need to be a NASA top recruit to fly an ATR to Jersey and back.

What disappointment is that then? I haven’t attended an interview of any kind for over 10 years, let alone been disappointed by the outcome of one.

Playing the man instead of the ball doesn’t make your argument any stronger, especially when it’s childish assumptions that anybody who speaks the truth about Jet2 instead of the usual cult spin must somehow be a rejected candidate.

Jet2 messed up here, end of story.

Also, that me be the way it works in the UK, but many places around the world if you get a "yes" then you will be offered employment at some stage.

Except you don't speak the truth just bilious, second hand, opinions probably given to you by other disaffected rejects.

Truths need proof and you have never posted any.

You have to wonder how many pilots who pass the assessment, to go into a hold pool, ultimately get let go, really want to go through the process again? Obviously Jet2 can be very selective, I wonder if this attitude will leave them short of candidates in the future, considering the other options for pilots at the moment.

Vokes 55: I mistakenly thought that you were the interviewee who feels let down by the Jet2 recruitment procedure. The fact that you are not highlights even more the bizarre rationale for getting involved. I would like to clarify a few points based on your historical postings. We are not Jet 2 ‘fanboys’. It is not a ‘cult’. I never felt the need to ‘brown nose’ while working for Jet2. We do not ‘come out of the woodwork’. Also we are not in our late middle age, ‘childish’. One of your previous posts refer to ‘getting up @ 6 am to fly the chavs’. What a revolting and arrogant thing to say about the J2 customer base. Personally I believe in not saying anything over the internet that I would not say in person. Therefore in the spirit of civil discourse I will say no more, except it is a very small industry and I would be careful who you insult. I will not respond again to you.

You do realise that all hold pools in airlines expire though, right? BA used to be two years, Jet2 was one year until COVID. Not sure about the other majors who have hold pools. If candidates in those hold pools refuse to reapply to those airlines, fair enough. I wouldn't do that, I'd just want to keep trying.

I'll say this again: It's not personal, it's business. As someone alluded to earlier, the reason for no feedback given is more likely a HR legality issue. Imagine the fun am employment lawyer could have picking apart a recruiter's words on an email.

I've been in J2 a while and know the culture here. You are rewarded for constantly working hard to improve. Go away and throw everything you have at learning about the Company, its culture and have a think about some strong examples of when you've demonstrated the required competencies for a potential command here. If you do this and arrive at the interview looking well-motivated and full of potential, you'll get a good score. Don't turn up looking like a 'Career First Officer'. I'm not giving you any more specific tips as we don't spoon-feed people in this airline. 'Meritocracy' is the DFO's buzz word at J2, and they mean it.

Good luck.

I can second that. Jet2 is an excellent airline, thoroughly professional, with a great friendly workforce throughout. All I can say is for the right person, thorough preparation for both interview and sim session and doing the very best at all stages is essential and well worth the effort. I'd say the recruitment team are doing a great job getting the very best people most suited for the positions available. My advice is, really thoroughly prepare, and as stated, be ready to really show great examples of how you have demonstrated the core needed values. It really is worth the effort to really prepare and do your very best.

Really really does sound like a really good company full of really good people, an ideal place for people that really really really prepare.

sorry just teasing.

Maybe it’s a symptom of the self entitled to expect individually prepared responses. Maybe that’s a bit cruel and more a byproduct of the buoyant market and glossy promises of the big training providers.
I’m of an age that instructed then flew single pilot ops in a light twin at night, then TP’s before getting anywhere near a jet. Can’t remember the last time I flew with an FO that had felt the cold trickle of sweat at 100 above during a single pilot manually flown approach to mins. And in fairness it’s not what the airlines what now anyway.
All I will say is, commercial flying isn’t for the over sensitive even if the rise of inclusive wokeness suggests otherwise. Be thankful you’ve the opportunity to get to try out for the job and then try again. I was, and many of us were, quite happy to even get a letter back let alone an invite.
dedication and perseverance can be seen as a good trait by itself.

All airlines are much of a muchness overall, and all have different pros and cons - my advice would be read the terms of any airline very carefully, ideally get hold of a summer roster, disregard anything that's not in black and white - find the best fit for you and ignore pprune BS. Reading here, it does seem that you need to drink heavily on the KoolAid which may not be to everyone's taste; for some, downright nauseating, but horses for courses.

No, you don't need to.

By the way it was actually Flavour Aid that was used to murder 900 people including more than 300 children. Think about that the next time you use the phrase...

That's one possible derivation, but Kool Aid is a current commercial product, and"drinking the Kool Aid" is common parlance.

Not a great analogy though, since Reverend Jim locked people in and wouldn’t let them leave, whereas the complaints on here are that you can’t get in the aforementioned ‘cult’ in the first place.

If only the reverend had given a budget for more recruiters he could have given every failed cult member some personal feedback?

Sorry for being facetious but it’s all a bit silly now!

It's not an analogy - it's a common saying. Many sayings, even nursery rhymes have sinister origins. Eventually they enter the vernacular. I mentioned it because of the holier than thou "you candidates aren't worthy of responses and updates from such an amazing company' type attitude; they having gone to the considerable effort and expense of attending and passing the selection, and then others picking up on that and calling successful applicants "entitled", for wondering what's going on! . It's not normal. I know how it feels, having got booted out of BAs pool decades ago, but at least they gave us the courtesy of updates.
But hey, I came to this in a day when even unsuccessful CVs would yield a nice company headed letter in the post thanking me for my interest, and good luck!

Or, maybe not worthy of responses because (guessing here, as I don't have a stake in this):

1. Not being able to justify spending on extra staff to explain why to unsuccessful candidates
2. HR Legal have advised it's best not to because someone argued the reasoning in the past
3. The benchmark was raised after training issues
4. The hold pool expiry was brought forward in anticipation of something on the horizon

I don't think anyone is saying J2 is an 'amazing company', just that it's a good one from their perspective once you're in, but to be realistic if you don't make the cut (hold pool or not) as you don't have to be given a reason by any airline as to why you didn't make it. It's really not that unusual.

PS back when I had 180 hours and applied everywhere for my first job, I only got one personal response explaining why I was unsuccessful, and that was only because it was one aeroplane owned by a rich business owner who felt sorry for me. It's nothing new.

So I happened to end up on the first page of this thread and right in front of me is this quote from 2019... if PPRUNE members hoping to join had read the entire thread before applying they might have picked up on this little gem that explains it all. I do also see the irony that I myself hadn't read through it before posting earlier :ouch:

Exactly Mr Cat.

And I do suspect the cool aid was exhausted at the same time as Phillips morning prayers stopped.

Had a nice chat with him once in BOH as a very new Electra FO, seemed ok, can’t but admire his achievements without a chin beard, Wolly jumper and punk band.

And completed my IR with Chanex freight pilots that still instructed and loved the place.

but then who doesn’t love flying freight.

shhhhh….don’t tell anyone about the freight thing, it’s a secret.

“Drinking the Kool-Ade came from the Jonestown Massacre

JET2 NTR DEC
 

Hi everyone,

I am attending a DEC (NTR) assessment day and sim soon and wondering if there is anyone who's recently been through the process who can share their experience with me? PilotAssessments.com details a bunch of AON aptitude and reasoning tests but so far, all I've been sent ADEPT-15 behavioural profile questions. Perhaps the aptitude fun and games are no longer part of the process (here's to wishful thinking)?

Feel free to PM if you prefer. Thank you.

I can think of many SFO’s at Jet 2 with between 5 and 10 thousand hours who are experienced in the company, have plenty of hours on type (admittedly mainly Boeing but also some with airbus experience) who are waiting for command assessments. Having joined as a type rated DEC, admittedly over ten years ago, I still wonder why they are advertising for NTR captains now with so many highly experienced SFOs who could be promoted if they weren’t put off by the ridiculous internal upgrade requirements.

Care to qualify this comment? I have seen many quality FOs upgrade to Captain, at the absolute minimum 3000 factored hours, but there are very few FOs with between 5-10 thousand hours. The upgrade requirements are to have a clean disciplinary record, show that you're capable of learning the command role and taking responsibility, and answering a few questions on the Part A etc. Then there's a development course and final assessment.

Let me know which airlines make it really easy to upgrade. I'll avoid them :ugh:

haha that is NOT all of the requirements. If it was, there wouldn’t be a need to hire DEC’s. They seem to make it as hard as possible to upgrade. ( from what I’ve heard )

If they were put off the by the ridiculous, which it's not, upgrade requirements then they wouldn't be waiting for a command assessment as that only happens after they have applied forrrrrr....command.

Well , it’s obvious why I’d think
With a rapidly expanding fleet you need a mix of newly upgraded , cross fleet and DEC , otherwise new FOs have no one to fly with as in most outfits you can’t roster 2 pilots “ inexperienced on type or role “.

You heard wrong. Try asking all the guys and girls who passed, instead of the failed guy with 5-10,000 hours who couldn’t get their command as they felt it was made too hard for them.

I have to say I don’t think the command course should be easy to pass.
The level of skill, discipline and maturity required to take a multimillion dollar aircraft and 200+ lives to some very interesting and challenging places means that the command course should be stretching, it shouldn’t be easy, it should be challenging.
It should leave the candidate feeling like they can cope with any realistic emergency the aircraft can throw at them in a timely and considered fashion while maintaining a high level of safety.
Not all 5-10,000 hour FOs are able to demonstrate this.

What I would add is that if you have previously held a command at a reputable airline then you have demonstrated the required aptitude to be a Captain, and sometimes its better for the airline to take a very experienced Captain and type rate them rather than upgrade an FO. It’s quite easy to take a B777 or A340 captain and train them to fly a A320 or B737. It’s not that easy to take an FO and train them to think like a Commander.

it’s supposed to be a course ? You’ve passed the assessment , now they teach you .

Its not supposed to be yet another chop ride- if you make it too hard people come out with their new found confidence in tatters .

It will never be “ easy “ regardless , unless you are a cross between chuck Yeager and A super computer

It is a course, but at the end of the day the candidate has to perform to the required standards.

Is it a chop ride? Every flight we do has an element of chop ride about it. Every sim certainly, but also every single flight. Screw up enough and you won’t be getting another chance.

What separates good trainers from bad trainers is the ability to put a candidate at ease so they don’t realise it’s a chop ride. As the CAA say, there’s no such thing as a “non jeopardy sim”.

Actually, this is the most common misconception and misses the whole point about taking a command. You can't teach responsibility, but you can mentor and guide someone, and polish their basic command skills on a command course. A nominee needs to arrive having put years of learning and practice at home, knowledge of the books, armchair flying scenarios and practising leadership skills with the crew at work. Then it's just a gentle push in the right direction should they start to slip on the course.

From my experience the aforementioned 5-10,000 hour FOs still waiting, are actually the ones who just can't self-reflect and learn to change. Or maybe just don't want to put the work in during their own time and think it's the Company's job... not realising that having sole responsibility for an outcome is the very definition of a Command.

Anyway, this is starting to drift from the thread.

Hold poo
 

Been in the NTR Hold Pool since January… would you start looking elsewhere? Really wanted to join jet2 but also trying to be realistic…second time I’ve passed an assessment and been left swimming.

I’m the same, and don’t think it’s going to happen (would be nice to know why but all the arguments above don’t do anyone any good). I’m looking elsewhere now and there’s a lot popping up at the moment so maybe J2 not meant to be.

Never say never. A friend of mine has just had a call out of the blue at another leisure airline offering a contract. They were in that hold pool for 13 months!

I feel the same to be honest, not completely given up hope but applying elsewhere and won’t turn down other options this time round.

NTR FO or CPT?
wonder if there’s a difference in need between two, and I think base preference might have a bearing on it as well as overall assessment scores?

NTR FO

Not sure they were pretty keen to tell me straight away on the assessment day that I got the role. (Did the airbus sim in December and assessment in Jan)

Anyone had any calls with start dates? Seems like recruitment is still very much on-going but start dates are few and far between.