So sad that EU offers Americans work permit while the US doesn't do :mad: for European pilots... Go figure!

If the 787 is having so many inflight shutdowns how cones it still has ETOPS approval. I thought one of the approval ticks of ETOPS was based on engine reliability over x flight hours.

I bet this post never appears - I got banned from another NAS thread for criticising bondi and his psychotic hatred of NAS.

Pprune admin said they were glad someone was taking NAS to task, utter bias.

Shame as I have some good info .

Have a few questions, if you are willing to answer?

Are you expected to stump up the bond, or is it simply paid to the company if you leave early? Bit of an interesting one if the company were to fold, where would that leave the pilot, having just joined the company?

There have been mentions that downroute digs are somewhat godawful. Are we talking LAX down town shooting crack den bad or self service breakfast bad? Crew can be known to be somewhat precious, so "bad" is very much a relative term.

Is ID90/75 part of the package?

Pension? Any scheme or are you into DIY territory?

Any chat of pay point increases once Full time, or will the co/capt rate fixed?

Once working Full time, is there a per diem rate as opposed to a flat annual allowance rate, or is this again fixed?

For me personally, NAS is a definite option. Companies have to start somewhere, the model is relatively new (as did Easy at some stage) with the time to command a competitive feature of the offer. Expanding route structure, by all accounts, pleasant crews to work for and a fleet of modern new aeroplanes. Profit margins seem thin, but once they are up and running with setup costs covered, this should sort itself out. We don't live in the 90's and whilst T and Cs are not fantastic across the industry, we still have the highest paid jobs (for a major sector) in Europe.

Are you looking at 737 or 787 ?

78.

Currently 4300 total heavy (EFIS and HUD) including over 2000 command turbofan wide body over 250T. Unfortunate not FAR/CS25, so licence is currently frozen.

Are you expected to stump up the bond, or is it simply paid to the company if you leave early? Bit of an interesting one if the company were to fold, where would that leave the pilot, having just joined the company?

One of my concerns in applying too! Anyone know the answer?

Recruitment advertisements, company accounts and available Employment Contract all indicate a requirement for non-rated pilots to provide a bond in the form of cash payment or bank guarantee. Regardless, the novel and complex labor scheme circumventing direct employment with the airline remains questionable.

Companies House accounts list Rishworth’s Global Crew UK Ltd as an “employment placement agency”. For the period ending March 2016, “included within the amounts by the group undertakings is 1,130,000 Euros of funds held for pilots in the form of bonds”. The next accounts are due to by 30 September 2017:-

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/c...filing-history

The filing states; “The Company does not have a bank account, therefore all income and expenditures are collected or incurred by other group companies” - “The Company’s immediate parent undertaking is Global Resources Singapore PTE Ltd, a company incorporated in Singapore”. However, a confirmation statement dated 24 April 2017, lists Empresaria NZ Ltd as “Persons with significant control” over Global Crew UK Ltd:-

https://www.empresaria.com/ - “Our brands; Rishworth Aviation”

The Employment Contract associated with Norwegian’s 787 operations on file with the DOT includes:

“Schedule 3 - Training

(b) The Employee agrees to provide the Employer with a training cost bond in EUR by way of either a bank guarantee from a satisfactory bank in favor of the Employer in a form accepted by the Employer, or a cash deposit to a bank account nominated by the Employer, to the requisite value specified below in respect of such training costs two weeks prior to the Commencement Date. The applicable training cost bond shall reduce on each anniversary of the Commencement Date in accordance with the schedule in Item (c) below.

(c) Where the Employee has undertaken a B787 type rating course at the Employer’s or the Client’s cost and this Agreement is terminated (excluding termination by the Employer under *Clause 9.1 of this Agreement [*30 days notice by Employer]) prior to completion of the term, the Employee shall immediately repay the Employer the training costs as follows, for the date on which the Employee's notice expires (where the employment has been terminated with notice), or the date on which termination takes effect (where the employment has been terminated without notice) (“Effective Date of Termination”) occurring between:
Pilots current and rated on any other accepted Boeing or Airbus aircraft type in JAA/EASA license when starting the B787 type rating course:
EUR 40,000
Effective Date of Termination, Amount to be repaid:
0-12 months - EUR 40,000
13-24 months - EUR 27,000
25-36 months - EUR 13,000
After 36 months – Nil”

The Employment Contract on file with the DOT also contains;

“Clause 10, Material Changes/Redundancy/Transfer of Employment –In circumstances where;
(b) Client [Norwegian airline] terminates its agreement with the Employer [agency] with respect to the Employee [pilot] - then the Employer shall be entitled to terminate this agreement by giving 30-days notice to the Employee or (if greater), any employee entitlements will be in accordance with the laws of England and Wales” - or appropriate EU country.

Employment laws of England and Wales state that a minimum one week notice must be given if employment is less than two years and an additional week for each year of service thereafter.

Reference to Schedule 3, Training, clause (c) suggests that if you receive 30-days notice from the agency Employer via Clause 9.1 you are not liable for training costs. Presumably, you would have no liability under Clause 10 (b) above. But remember, your bank guarantee or cash payment is under the control of the agency Employer (“in favor of the Employer”).

Despite Clause 10 (b), this labor scheme is being marketed as “permanent employment”.

Response to refute or comment on the above is welcomed. Sadly, some are so disheartened with Norwegian’s “employment” shortcomings they respond in frustration with no association to the post or thread whatsoever. Fortunately, the administrators recognize the irrelevance and take the appropriate action.

Direct Bondi
This thread is only interesting reading if your steer clear of posting.
Go over to the BA thread and comment on 9 Qatari aircraft and crews flying for them

At least his posts (albeit long winded ones) are relevant to this thread. Absolutely nothing about that Qatari wet lease is relivant to this discussion.

To be fair, I don't think Norwegian does "Training Bonds" any longer.
I believe they now use "No Compete" clauses.
Not sure about how that would work though.
Hope that helps.

Enzo

Same

A ‘non-compete covenant’ is neither applicable nor enforceable in respect of Norwegian’s labor scheme for the following reasons:

Norwegian’s crew service providers (your employer) do not hold any AOC. Therefore, upon leaving the Norwegian airline with a brand new 787 or 737 type rating and securing direct airline employment, you would not be competing with your former employer – Rishworth or Orient Ship Management.

Those responsible may be attempting a non-compete covenant on the grounds of 'Protectable Interests' (extraordinary or specialized training). To qualify, the training "must exceed that which is usual, regular, common or customary in the industry". It is usual for an airline to train its pilots on the aircraft they will fly. Therefore, a non-compete covenant for 787 or 737 training is not enforceable.

A worldwide, country by country legal guide to non-compete covenants including every US state is available at this link:

https://www.fenwick.com/FenwickDocum...-Covenants.pdf

Do you know guys if they still not offering Spanish bases for Senior Type Rated FOs coming from other bases.

Anyone knows what happen after the upgrade, are they sending people out of his permanent base like Ryanair does?

Cheers

It doesn't matter where you come from, your base will be allocated according to your bids and your position on the MSL, if someone higher up the list wants the space and there's no space for you, that's too bad, then you go where they need you. The system isn't perfect but the only fair system in place, you do your time and eventually you get what you want.

Regarding the upgrade, you will first have to pass the selection and then upon successful completion of training you'll be given a base, if there's space at your preferred base and nobody of higher seniority wants that base you get it, if not you'll be moved and can then bid for your preferred base in the base bidding process. Same principle as above, when your name comes up on the list you get it, until such time you have to bide your time and wait.

What bases are you offering for the moment, right now?,

What happen if you are in your preference base and then do the upgrade?, After finish the upgrade you return to your base or you are moved to other base?,

How many hours are you making per month? how many sectors per day?,

cheers

I have no idea what bases are on offer at the moment, contact Norwegian or OSM or whoever deals with your application for more info.

Regarding the upgrade, you can bid for your preferred base before starting the course and then if there's space, you'll be able to stay, if there is no space, you go where you are needed and then with the next round of base bidding you can bid for your preferred base. If there is a slot and your seniority is good enough, you can go back there, if there is a slot and someone of higher seniority bids for it, then you don't get it and they do. Eventually your seniority will be good enough to get what you want and then you can move there.

Monthly hours can be hard to predict, but expect to fly between 750-800 per year. It is mostly 2 sector days in the Spanish bases, with the occasional 4 sector day, in the Scandi bases the days vary greatly between 2, 4 and 6 sector days, the transatlantic operation is self explanatory, and LGW and HEL have a mix of 2, 3 and 4 sector days. Hardly any nightstops at Spanish bases, expect plenty in the Scandi bases, LGW and HEL.

I would concur with november.sierra

Dublin is now on offer as a crew base, but with restrictions due to experience levels required for US OPS, this will pull some back to the emerald isle and possibly from LGW that are non UK resident but commute in to LGW that have been hit by the fall in the £ -v- €

There is also talk of recruitment moving back to Norwegian from OSM, I have also heard that all future TR courses will moving in house later this year.

How can they move in house when they don't own or operate FSTDs?

Whilst Norwegian may not own any sims, they virtually have a monopoly on the Scandinavia based CAE sims, also the CTC sims at LGW are used mainly by Norwegian, so that's not an issue.

Anyone else can't start the online assessment or had this happend before? I emailed the support and they say its a technical problem with them.

Even if they are open tests may freeze and lock before you finish. I had to request help twice in order to complete them.

I did mine for the 787 fleet 8 days ago and now waiting patiently to see what happens.

Does anyone know how long it takes to receive a PFO?

Ok. Well for me it doesnt even open the test. Its shows loading for a second and then nothing. Tried every browser, mac and windows and flash is up to date. Emailed them and they said its a technical problem and have to wait untill its fixed. It has been two days now. So must be a serious issue

I was just wondering if anyone else trying to do the test now is having the same problem.

I'm having the same issue

Ok thanks for letting me know!

Anyhow...
The new strategy of the "intelligence of the Company" wants to change the contract conditions unilaterally...

Be sure about contract conditions before leave your actual employer...

Hello all, I am wondering about base allocation in Norwegian, specifically the scandinavian capitol bases. Let's assume you get hired as DEC and get a base in Spain for example. Will you ever get a CPH, OSL or ARN base, or are they only for the chosen ones in core or how does it work? Or does core even exist anymore? I'm confused!

Regarding the Scandinavian bases, you will not get one of them when you come in as a DEC EVER!!!! There are countless first officers that have not gone for their command in order not to be moved from their home base and they will be first in line, strictly according to the MSL!

If for any reason in the future, they need additional captains in the Scandinavian bases and cannot crew those positions with the people already there and ready to be upgraded, they MAY, and only if the NPU agrees, take on additional captains from the Euro bases, again strictly according to MSL, which at the moment would mean there might be a few hundred people ahead of you, wanting one of those spots, so again, do your time and eventually you MAY get there!

If you now wanted to come in and bid for any of those bases as a captain, you can of course do so, but you're unlikely to ever go there as a captain, if you agree to fly as an F/O, you might stand a chance.

A Scandinavian base is also coveted due to it being the relative nirvana of labor rights and labor principles. The erosion of these virtues seems proportional to the distance from the region.

A letter to management from the AFA MEC President of Norwegian’s US based 787 cabin crews, was provided in a report by Dagbladet newspaper yesterday, 9/1:

https://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/til...rensa/68649490

http://cabinassociation.org/wp-conte...en08172017.pdf

The letter raises a number of management shortcomings and issues. The same OSM and Norwegian management decide and implement the terms and conditions for the pilots, which may be a factor in the shortage:

“As you may already know, rostering has always been a problem at our company and will continue to be a problem until an adequate bidding program is implemented”.

“The poor decisions of Norwegian management have forced many cabin crew members to seek second jobs, rely on family for support, and quit our company altogether”.

“I’m not sure what you are being told by OSM or those you count on to give you the correct information, but I can assure you that saying we are paid “competitive wages and benefits” is a false statement—especially at this juncture”.

The treatment described in the letter contradicts the “Norwegian family” ethos marketed to applicants. Apparently, the Atlantic not only separates families but also comparable terms and conditions. Perhaps the adoption of the powerful AFA union upset the dysfunctional relatives in Fornebu.

(cue the messenger assassins……)

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articl...ng-out-of-cash

Apparently O'Leary says it's not lack of pilots but lack of cash. And Norwegian will run out of it in 4-5 months.

I'm not saying that there isn't any truth behind in what MOL claims here, but what else would you expect from him in a situation where they're losing a lot of pilots to other airlines. I believe that this was targeted to the pilots who are thinking of jumping ship to Norwegian, Monarch, easy etc. But I'm pretty sure Ryanair will not be the only one surviving, and who knows, maybe they even won't be as profitable in the future if the lack of experienced pilots really hits them as hard as suggested in the other thread them.

The whole industry is short of experienced pilots and it will be those offering the best remuneration/ lifestyle package that will get the flight crew they need but this is not the only limiting factor in the industry , the lack of skilled maintenance staff is worse than pilots.

And I wonder if MOL is shedding a tear for NAS, or is he suddenly hoping that his own 'talked about' shortage of crews will suddenly disappear.: as will the cabin crew & engineer dry supply.

MOL is an advocate for Ryan, but he also has a known issue with running off at the mouth and dramatizing things.
Every airline has their own unique circumstances, but they all have this in common; unless they take care of their crews, they will all lose personnel to other airlines that offer better packages. Airlines especially need crews to grow! And there is a major shortage of experienced pilots, which I suspect is why MOL was spreading rumors about his competition. Ryan has been hemorrhaging experienced pilots to other carriers that offer more.

Norwegian & Monarch will have had an expensive year with fleet renewal and in Norwegians case near 30% growth plans including setting up an Argentinan AOC,HQ refurbishment, introducing the MAX, ETOPS training for 737 crews and a large number of new routes and dream-liners to fly them and their crews.

It is no secret that pilots are leaving Ryanair to Norwegian & Jet2, Monarch will shortly start recruiting more 737 rated f/o's and rumour of DEC will only add to FR shortage.

So I guess by suggesting that these airlines may not last suits his agenda.

Of course given FR cash pile it is within their recourse to address the underlying reason for their own pilot attrition.

Airlines especially need crews to grow! And there is a major shortage of experienced pilots, Ryan has been hemorrhaging experienced pilots to other carriers that offer more.

Perhaps true, but there is also a perceived idea that RYR had an alleged predatory philosophy & business model that caused the demise of competition thereby creating a supply of desperate workers who would work for any T's & C's they could get. Hence RYR could expand into vacuums, of their own creating, very cheaply. Very capitalistic and dog eat dog, survival of the finest and live by the laws of the jungle. Thus they had no need to raise incomes, indeed they have been effectively reduced.
Perhaps that is starting to change. We shall see.

As they say, 'turnover is vanity, profit is sanity'. MoL has made a lot of profit for RYR, which can't be said of some of the competition. I'd take notice of this if I were moving on from RYR to pastures new.

I would definitely work for RYR or NOR if they treated you with respect, and salary like Southwest Airlines and the likes. Final Salay pension pension would be a bonus, as was the norm in days gone by. Maybe 25+ % employer contribution in money purchase pension schemes instead would get qualified pilots flocking to your companies.
As of now I'm a happy camper with almost all above.

This link explains everything:

Norwegian on Ryanair attack: O'Leary is bitter about losing his pilots to us - Business Insider Nordic

The post above references an article first appearing in Svenska Dagbladet:

https://www.svd.se/norwegian-pilotva...hefens-angrepp

Responding to O’Leary’s comments a Norwegian paid mouthpiece told the newspaper; “So far this year we have employed close to 140 Ryanair pilots. With us, they get permanent employment in a Norwegian company and receive market wages”.

OSM Aviation Ireland Limited is listed with Companies Registration Office as a private company with no reference to a Norwegian airline whatsoever:
https://www.cro.ie/en-ie/

It is implausible to suggest Norwegian’s atypical labor scheme is “permanent employment”. A pilot contract applicable to Norwegian is on file with the DOT. Clause 10.b permits the client Norwegian airline to terminate the rental agreement(s) with the agency for pilot(s) services without notice, reason or recourse. A 30-days notice period is with the employer agency, not the airline. Read the contract!

DN newspaper quotes another Norwegian paid mouthpiece; “What we have to say in this case is that this is a classic O’Leary tulle (joke) game that has no root in reality”: https://www.dn.no/nyheter/2017/09/04...k-tulleutspill

E24 news reported; “The fall of the Norwegian share Monday is due to statements by Ryanair chief Michael O’Leary that Bjorn Kjos & Co is in financial trouble”:
http://e24.no/naeringsliv/luftfart/a...ksjen/24133128

There are no reports of Norwegian seeking redress against O’Leary for his “joke” comments, but there is a previous report Norwegian threatened to sue a homeless, penniless, single mother – “I was told that the top boss at Norwegian threatened to sue me for bad publicity. The conversation was very threatening. It was like an interrogation for committing a crime”:
https://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/fol...angel/60848976

Other than Scandinavia, Norwegian’s pilots have no collective labor agreement with the airline, only with their service provider agency. Ryanair pilots should consider Norwegian’s hypocrisy and bullying propensity before abandoning the rock solid 5 on 4 off roster and directness of O’Leary.