Of course Norwegian is short of pilots.

Pilots will not apply and be subjected to Norwegian’s gross hypocrisy, which may adversely affect their lives.

Pilots also prefer airline employment to service industry temporary employment. Read a sample contract. Even better, have a labor law attorney read it for you.

The EU Commission report on the Norwegian/OSM merger and its convolutions can be read here:-

http://ec.europa.eu/competition/merg...7949_400_3.pdf

Exploring the direct employment circumvention is tantamount to following the rabbit hole of the Matrix. You can take the blue pill, or red, Kool-Aid pill.

Well said!

heard it through the grapevine that they are also failing to crew their US 737MAX operation with the FAA pilots they were looking for . Word is that they are now going to crew the MAX with EU pilots based temporarily in Europe

They'll probably start a Wedding Agency for single American ladies to marry an attractive European pilot in order to obtain the needed Working Permits.

hahaha very good!

Well, this is sure a buzz kill and isn't likely helping their efforts(and isn't there a training bond ?):

"If FAA, validation & conversion to EASA is required during the first 2 years. (Pilots will be assisted to obtain)"

The mere thought of slaying that dragon would make me want to lie down on the couch and watch reruns of Gilligan's Island.

When the Captain base salary at the 737 MAX bases is what a 5 year FO makes in most non regional US airlines, its no wonder they are going to struggle to find enough guys. Add to that you basically have to live in the base city as there is still no jumpseat/staff ID agreements to get to you home on days off

Funny thing here si how well they hide everything. How many time It's gonna takes the truth to arrive the passengers? One day, one week, one month...

http://www.newsinenglish.no/2017/06/29/union-norwegian-broke-contract/

9000 hour pilot with 3000 hours PIC on 737NG current, qualified, no dings. JSFSAG I put in an app 5 months ago, took their silly video game test.. No word since... Either they are arrogant, stupid, or disorganized. Seriously?! Best of luck Norwegian. You've painted a very clear picture for me of your ops and your attitude towards professional pilots. You must be smoking more than just the fish up there.

I thought it was established a long time ago that Norwegian guys were either in unfortunate circumstances (be it family at home and they've had enough pollution in China), or indeed they just lacked self respect.

I fail to see how any self respecting pilot would sign up to their pay alone, forget even the conditions. It is insulting to even read them. This is coming from a student pilot (thankfully managed to secure a respectable enough contract ... one where i'm paid a decent amount for my first years at least).

Point of the matter is that if they offered good conditions, they would not be struggling.

Things are pretty bad when you have even student pilots who would pull the plug on the career if it meant joining your company.

Exactly the point I was making. Some people think they are entitled to a job in Norwegian because they fulfill the basic requirements and judging from the attitude displayed here, the selection team did a pretty good job. Norwegian has enough applications and they can and do select who they want, as does every other airline on the planet.

And then you have guys like Nightstop, the great communicator who not only, despite his impeccable social skills, couldn't resist being extremely rude to a Norwegian guy making a mistake but who also feels thats totally acceptable and brags about his achievement on the forum here. Please continue working for your real LCC, you will not be missed.

Even more hilarious is that student pilot guy momo95, who has literally achieved nothing aviation wise except for being selected into a cadet program (good for him) telling now people with years of experience and thousands of hours they lack self respect, which is in fact really insulting but so ridiculous at the same time that I had good laugh about it.

Sometimes you just gotta love pprune.

How did you come to the conclusion I've "achieved nothing aviation wise"? I'm genuinely interested. Have you assumed that because I'm a student pilot it means I had no life prior to it? I had a choice to continue in my previous aviation related role with very promising future prospects. However, I wanted to fly for a living and so left my role, that burning thing called the flying bug took over eventually.

But contracts like Norwegian? I would have stayed in my previous role, earnt a respectable amount and bought my own bloody plane to fly on weekends.

Yes. You really do have to love pprune :rolleyes:

Something I'm already seeing is the apparent tendency to attack one another when there is even a suggestion of malpractice. "Just be glad they're paying us" appears to be the motto for many. No wonder the likes of Norwegian are able to run riot, and no wonder those on the outside (those who would make good pilots) are no longer coming in their droves. Not everyone is so desperate to become a pilot, make no mistake. Obviously those who are haven't got the correct % of suitable airline individuals among their ranks. This leading to Norwegian unable to crew flights as has been reported.

They're trying to offer McDonald's pay and conditions whilst setting the selection bar at a surgeon's level. May it haunt them.

Congratulations for writing possibly the most condescending post in prune's history. You really are a fantastic advertisement for your company and clearly a valuable asset - I bet they're so proud of you. You must be a dream to fly with....

The offering from NAS is :mad:, hence why you don't have enough pilots. Get over yourself.

To be fair to Parkbremse he is about the only one on any of the numerous Norwegian threads who is prepared to stick his neck above the parapet and defend them. Usually done rudely but at least he sticks to his guns which no one else seems willing to do. Must be lonely though.

As is with human nature, the most vocal are those who have a grievance. The majority, who are presumably happy, don't have the need to go on and on and on and on...

annakm:

"The majority, who are presumably happy, don't have the need to go on and on and on ..."

I think you have hit the nail on the head. I know quite a few Norwegian pilots and none of them appear to be particularly unhappy with their lot.

Possibly, but the threads dealing with Jet2 Easy Mon BA Thomson and even Ryanair always have dozens defending and supporting.

I also concur, and furthermore, I would be interested to understand why some of those vocal individuals have such a venomous, almost pathological hatred of this airline? Would it be something to do with the circumstances in which they personally parted company with their former employer? Most of us who have made a mistake working for the wrong people just move on and put it down to a bad experience; not continue to launch a continued and personal vendetta.

I guess that is possibly true as well but this thread is about Norwegian's lack of pilots. I think we all know who you refer to, but there are not many that hold up the Norwegian defence for their employment and recruitment practices and their terms and conditions. I thought that one of the main issues related to the view that you could not take Norwegian to an industrial tribunal because you weren't employed by them, but I might have misunderstood.

I'm pretty sure NAI is not the worst place for a cadet pilot to start his career. Momo95, you have to get back on to earth. If you found something better, that's nice for you but I would say for the most of pilots straight out of school; it's not that bad!
Doesn't pretty much every LoCo airline offer the permanent base after employment?? It's wrong, but that the way it goes until enough people stand up and don't accept any other base than what they want.

Its no secret that Norwegian are again short of pilots for this summer as indeed are Ryanair who are also cancelling flights.

The problem is 30%+ growth and despite a massive ramp up in training capacity there are just too many bottlenecks, some unforeseen other more obvious.

The anti Norwegian brigade fall into broadly two camps, those employed, but sacked for having Tourettes on the company intranet site and those who applied but didn't' get called.

Having worked for/flown on behalf of Norwegian for 5+ years i can only say this, they have never missed a salary payment, for the past two years I have been in taper relief for pension contributions (£150K=+) I have had to use the QRH twice in anger.

5 years running its won best European LoCo award with skytrax and 3 years running the best world wide LoCo long haul airline.

95% of people I fly with are happy with their lot in NAI

The two main anti- Norwegian posters on here where both sacked by Norwegian and did not win any industrial tribunal

Its not perfect of course, but with 130 aircraft and a willingness to go for it there are bound to be frustrations, its clear that 99% of posters don't work for Norwegian, the 99% of those that do laugh at some off the idiotic comments on here...

No one is forcing you to join Norwegian, but we'd welcome those that wish to get involved and have good craic

Norwegian are hiring!

Maybe that says more about you than it does about Norwegian.

I flew with a fellow capt a few months ago who was leaving ek to join norwegian for a FLL base.
He was very anti ek/dubai, so he's probably happy there, but what he told me about the rosters and pay didn't seem very attractive to me.

Norwegian FLL
 

Anybody waiting to join Norwegian for the FLL base?

Are you? Sweet shiney widebody bro.

Lack of pilots , also in B787.
For example today EUROATLANTIC a Portuguese ACMI airline is flying with its 777 LGW-JFK

Norwegian’s gross mismanagement of pilot resources now raises safety fears from its own pilot group:-

“We do not want this extra pressure to work, because they may be tempted to fly even if they are tired” - Link:

http://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/fryk...a-fly/68382196

Despite this “extra pressure” and other dissatisfaction, there is a reason Norwegian Group airlines do not have any disgruntled employees – they do not have any employees!

Therefore, it is not possible to lose, nor even bring an Employment Tribunal claim against a Norwegian airline - as one sycophant on this thread would have you believe.

Norwegian is regularly in the media with labor disputes involving crews at one of its locations. Recent grievances by Norwegian’s crews based in Spain, Italy and the US have made the headlines. The Scandinavian group has an ongoing “real employer” court case.

Norwegian’s atypical labor scheme is described by the US DOT as “novel and complex” (read the contract). EU Transport Ministers recently met to discuss how;

“Atypical employment can affect the safety of airlines” – Link:

https://eurocockpit.be/news/eu-trans...cal-employment

Atypical employment permitted the summary dismissal, before any regulatory investigation, of four Norwegian long haul flight attendants in JFK after they raised safety concerns. That matter is far from concluded. Alarmingly, there are other examples of Norwegian’s managers taking punitive action against those raising safety concerns. All permitted without recourse via an atypical employment scheme.

Increasing numbers have been enlightened to Norwegian’s gross hypocrisy and unsavory methods in its “management” of flight crews. This is evidenced by Norwegian’s present calamitous situation leaving passengers stranded and distraught due to a lack of pilots.

What is the difference between NAI's Atypical employment schemes and other competitor's imaginative non-employment schemes? NAI are not the only one with many non-employees, so what is happening about the other schemes?

Reading the 'eurocockpit' link above there is comment about a debatable possible reduction in safety with large contingents of Atypical self-employed pilots. There were hints about risk taking and decision making. That is questionable, but what is very likely is those on zero-hour contracts will be tempted to work when not fully fit. No guaranteed income, no work no pay, it is not difficult to understand guys pushing their own boundaries to pay off debt and pay bills.

Really? anyone that does not hire you is insane? Wow. You are one overconfident cat

BA are not expanding at 30% growth is part of the answer+ they have Jeremy Corbyn's magic money tree called LHR

You had 3000 hours PIC last month!

And what did you expect it to be a month later?

INKJET,

No Tourettes on RedNose, fortunately my command of our (?) Native tongue is eloquent enough to avoid that error, but an unhealthily honest presentation of the facts, in stark contradiction to the company lies/propaganda that were being fed to the BrownNoses, was evidently too difficult for them to counter, so, Adios ! . . . . otherwise, correct.

As for not winning any industrial tribunal, the jury (or more accurately Judge ) is literally still out on that one. . . and that is only Part 1 of 2 . . . as you may remember, if you know so much detail, I was also employed in PSN & that employment hasn't even been formally rescinded, never mind subject to an internal disciplinary procedure, let alone industrial tribunal . . . . the Fat Lady hasn't even picked up the concert listing. . . . . .

and I can tell you once again - the real problem is the PILOTS who accept these kind of contracts. You complain on pprune and then just sign the contract and go to work and the executives just laugh at your stupidity. Wake up!

I'm just curious now. If you all consinder this company so crap, why then apply ? And if you left, why waste your life bitching about it?

Only contented people are allowed on the forum? This is a revelation!

Thirty five years in the flying business and five + with Norwegian and it is the whole business that I am sick of, Norwegian is slightly above par for the game with there being a number of operators I have worked for who are a lot worse.

They are certainly not helped by their unusual employment model but that being said they have lasted a lot longer than the last two companies I worked for so from a personal point of view at least my bank account is ahead of the game.

Most of Norwegian's detractors have never worked for the company, Captainplaystation I have some sympathy for as he was around for a while but was a victim of his own Internet opinions , Bondi however was only with the company for a month or so and irregularities had been found in his career history and so was asked to leave.

On the whole I think the Norwegian management are deeply aware of the mistakes that they made a few years back when they laid off pilots over the winter as this decision has come back to haunt them and cost them far more than it saved them.

So to sum it all up in a business that is not what it once was Norwegian is slightly above average in terms of T's & C's and a long way from being bad place to work, but to put it into perspective it is NOT the dire place that it's leading detractor would have you think.

A and C;

If you stop telling lies about me, I'll stop telling the truth about Norwegian.

A and C

That's interesting, I hope Direct Bondi hasn't been falsifying documents/hours etc, then Norwegian would be absolutely correct to fire him/her.