Yep... what he said ^

:ok:

Pay deal has gone through so dash skippers will see a decent rise putting them on a par with the jet in three years. BALPA can do good work and fair play to the company council for getting far more out of the company than anyone expected without significant escalation.

With a few more improvements Flybe is looking more and more attractive, good luck to the cc to win them in the future. 👍

I have been reading this thread, and understand that the roster at Flybe is not great. Can anyone tell me how many hours a month can you expect in the Summer as a Q400 Skipper? How is the ratio between flight hours and duty hours? Also how many night stops can you expect if any from Belfast base? What about requests for holidays, are they usually granted on the requested dates? How stable is the company at the moment?
I know I have asked a lot of questions, and know the company has been through some very turbulent times recently, and it is not the same as it once was, but I would like to fly from my home airport, but I am not willing to accept poor terms and conditions just to do so.

Out of BHD I would expect 90-100 hour months in the summer, in excess of 800 hrs per year total assuming full time, likely close to 900 in reality.
Flight/duty hours are relatively on par, in essence, when at work you will be flying. Nightstops will vary depending on the crewing levels at other bases, basically you will only night-stop out of BHD to cover other bases, until you are LCY trained, (not everyone gets trained) Belfast generally has the lowest level of night stops within the company.
Expect to be bottom of seniority for holidays so will depend on demand obviously when you are looking to book.

If base is your priority, then Flybe might be a good option for you. BHD is the most stable and best one in the company (that is common opinion in case anyone claims bias!), it has the best crews to go on a day out with, airport access and closing times limit disruption compared to other bases, and lastly BHD will never be closed as long as Flybe exists as it is one of the company's main breadwinners for the dash.

Stability? Well who knows, but they are profitable and generally the routes are busy (except Saads obsession with BHD-LPL but thats another story).

Cons: 6 sector days are the worst, and you will do plenty of them out of BHD

To fly 90hrs a month in a turbo prop, with short sectors within the UK, sounds like very hard work, especially when the weather is bad. As for regular six sector days, I now understand why they have a problem retaining crews. Thanks for the info.

Well actually I think the crew retainment issue is a far wider problem than them doing 6 sector days, and considering the 6 sectors is confined to one or two bases it nowhere near explains why every base is losing pilots. To think otherwise is a little naive.

Hello everyone,

I have been offered a first officer job at Exeter. This will be my first job in the industry and I would like some information please.

1. Can you tell me what routes I can expect on my roster?
2. How long would I wait to be transitioned on to the Embraer fleet?

Anything else you feel I should know?

Thank you.

What routes can you expect on your roster?

Manchester, Manchester, Manchester, Channel Islands, Channel Islands and the odd Amsterdam for luck, and once you've flown them you'll go to Manchester some more.

Time to jet in Exeter for new starters? Expect the jet to leave the business before you get a chance. Alot of new guys didn't have to wait long at all, but that's because it was a fleet replacement aircraft. There's alot of first officers in base above you on the list now to leek through the system.

Congratulations on your first job! Flybe is a good first airline to cut your teeth with and the Q400 is about as difficult as it gets.

Thanks guys. How long would it take for someone to move into the Manchester base?

Congratulations Bloated Stomach, very pleased for you, I would have thought these were fairly basic questions you would have asked at the interview stage or even taken the time to look up their schedules on line.

Thank you Winston Fumble. Unfortunately I wasn't asked about my base preferences until offer of employment. As my first role after 4 and a half years looking for a job, I didn't want to jeopardise the opportunity.

Once you start you will be able to see the seniority list, the bidding system is twice a year and depending on people moving up/on etc you will get the move after 6 months or one year I would reckon.

Bloated, I can understand that. Good luck for the future.

Thanks Winston.

Flybe DEC.
 

Contract on offer from Flybe for DEC, requires an £18000 bond over three years, even if you have a valid Q400 rating, and are currently operating on type.

That can't be right.

Most of facts are all here.

Careers < Corporate | Flybe UK

The bond used to be £13.5k over three years (that changed on 1st April 2016), reducing from the date of your type rating. It's now £18k over five years, reducing after the first 12 months. And remember it is a bond, so only pay it if you leave the company. I think with Jet2, Thomson, Ryanair, Thomas Cook, Easyjet they all charge for the training whether you stay long term or not.

I don't know if the bond is still enforced if you are already rated, could negotiate that I think.

First proper pay deal in a few years will make it more attractive now. Selection, training and operations staff all very friendly and transparent.

Good company to work for from what I hear, they work hard but your home a lot more than most other operators. Very highly regarded training, safety and SOP standards.

If you want a regional base away from London and to be with your family more then this could be a good option.

Jet2 don't charge for training and give you twice as much time at home than you would get at Flybe, on vastly better pay in a non London base.

Increasing the cost and duration of the bond is an attempt by Flyby management to stop the exodus. Just to clarify. :ok:

JilderPilot.

You are correct in what you say regarding the bond, and the company has its merits. It was as the interview was coming to a close and we were talking about possible sim dates that I first learned about the bond. The guy was not flexible on this, regardless of rating or currency, and it was because of this I decided not to take it any further. Was I stupid, only time will tell, but these days a year is a long time in aviation never mind three.

Under four years ago Flybe were less than 24 hours away from the shutters coming down and the locks put on the doors. Historically they've been loss making and relied on subsidies from the late Jack Walker. The operation is, in my opinion, still too big to consistently profitably meet the niche that they undoubtedly have. Consider these risks before signing up. In no way do I want to see Flybe fail, quite the opposite, but you have to go into it with your eyes open.

The airline is a going concern continuing its operations back into profitability. It is in a far better position than it had ever been and stronger to manage challenges.

It requires a bond / sign up for people to remain with them.

It is exactly the same position as many other airlines - with Brexit and other forces changing - it is inevitable there will be significant risks.

They are not asking for money upfront - this is a paper bond which is payable if you choose to leave.

If you want a job then that's the deal - although I can see it not going down too well with skippers and current Q400 people going for this deal.

Which leaves flybe in a position where they still remain short on people -> leading to cancelling flights = challenging times!

And don't forget the command bond when you finally get promoted.

I still don't believe that a Q400 rated and current pilot would be bonded.

RAFAT, I have made nothing up, and was in fact looking forward to working from home. My interview was conducted by a guy, not the usual lady, (This is not the place to mention names) but I don't believe that would have made any difference. It was only afterwards when I spoke to a few people, that I knew in the company, they confirmed the bond was correct. The figures, and time line quoted by Jilder Pilot are spot on, as well as his assessment of the company. I was prepared to have some form of bond to cover the ground course, but £18000 is excessive.

I assume you're joining because you want to work for flybe? If that's the case then the bond should be largely irrelevant. If you're not planning on leaving then it won't cost you a penny.

WMB - Well if you're correct, then to charge you, a Q400 rated pilot, with a bond of £18,000 is unreasonable. It's a training bond and if you don't need all of the training then you shouldn't be charged all of the bond.

Because plans change. Could be your personal circumstances, could be your working conditions within Flybe, could just be that the company isn't all it was cracked up to be so you want out. You never really know these things until you're there. If you're already type rated and haven't cost the company the amount of the 'bond' in training you then it's handcuffs and nothing more.

Why not sign over your house and first born whilst you're at it using that logic? It's largely irrelevant as after all, you're 100% not going to leave......

Don't give them ideas :eek:

Being bonded for 18000 £ while you are typerated: a pure disgrace i call this.

And there is no legal argument for doing this.

AFA, I think you're mis-interpreting the logic. You're not signing over anything even if the bond is £100k so why would you sign over your first born and house? Yes plans change etc, but you can say that about anything, like why pay Ryanair £30k for a type rating to then realise it's not what you thought it was, or why pay £120k for flight training to only realise the job isn't what it cracked up to be. Yes I agree it's pretty disgraceful making a type rated bod sign an £18k bond but there are choices in life, and those choices are either don't join, call them up and ask exactly why the bond needs signing and what is it for exactly or just get on with it.

Hi everyone...
so the website says starting salary of 64000pounds...is that a good salary if you choose to base yourself in Southampton?
I am asking as i dont live in EU or UK...
and coming off a B737 with no job now would it be a consideration, i know it is going from jet to turbo prop but work is work at the end of the day...your opinions please...

The reason I posted here is to provide some information for others, as I was unaware of the bond prior to interview. A certain amount of bond to cover the ground course and such like is entirely reasonable, but it was the amount and duration that I had the problem with. Many of you have stated why worry if your not going to leave? That is entirely true, but when you find out that the company requires £18000 over three years, you get a bit suspicious. Given the fact that the company is recruiting DEC in the first place is unusual, as there always used to be enough talent in the right seat, ready to make the move. If the guys & girls are leaving, rather than upgrade, then the company has serious problems. From my suspicions point of view it seems that HR is well aware of this, and the large size of the bond is a way to ensure that new joiners have no choice but to stay, once the shine wares of the new job. This is entirely my point of view as an outsider, looking in, and I am sure many reading this will be better placed to pass judgement than me.

Hi WMB
I think the reason for this is that Flybe have had a problem with new pilots arriving, and Flybe having spent money on their type rating, then moving on within a couple of years, months, or even before they’ve finished the type rating course. You cant blame people for doing that after all Flybe is a regional airline paying regional airline salaries, it’s a mainly turboprop operator when most pilots would prefer to fly jets, and has had in the non too distant past (although I don’t think this is a immediate problem now) a question mark over its financial viability.
And that is probably the point of the large bond – it doesn’t hurt those for whom Flybe is the right choice and who want to stay, but it does discourage those who just want to use Flybe as a stepping stone, and in that light is possibly quite a smart move on the part of the company.
As far as your suspicions are concerned, well Flybe has good bits and bad bits: Great people, great training, and a very professional safety and operational culture. Also, once the effects of the recent pay deal are realized in a couple of years, it will have some of the best-paid turboprop pilots anywhere, along with relatively high percentage pension contributions. On the other hand even high turboprop pay doesn’t compare favorably to global average pilot salaries, and Flybe is mainly a turboprop operation with a small jet fleet (the ongoing existence of a jet fleet within the company is in any case probably not a dead certainty), and rostering, partly due to the pilot shortage, is pretty ‘bloody’ at the moment, with full timers averaging close to a 5 on 2 off pattern, which combined with increasingly long days is probably unsustainable in the long run.

Anodyne. I think all understand and accept the bond where type rating is involved, but the issue raised here is why it is applied to those already type rated and current.

Are there any direct command jobs onto the embraer fleet yet?

Hi JaxofMarlow

I imagine the argument would be essentially the same: after all, even someone with a type rating still has to be put through an induction, trained to operate Flybe SOPs, and brought through to final line check, all of which uses up training capacity and costs the company money.

No mis-interpretation at all, I know exactly what a bond is supposed to be for. Or what it used to be for anyway.
With respect your comparison with Ryanair or an FTO rather make my point. With them you come out with a type rating or an FATPL after parting with your cash. If you're type rated & left Flybe early for whatever reason what exactly have you got for your £18K?? Notwithstanding ancillary training costs of integrating a new recruit as mentioned above (is the bond for non type rated recruits even more in that case?) & yes I know it reduces.
I think most people understand the difference anyway.
We agree it's disgraceful at least but I have no dog in this fight and no interest in Flybe thank goodness so I'll leave you to it.

The 737 rating I can swallow, but a fATPL? One would have to question the veracity of your statement considering 70% of fresh faced students never realise a job in the right hand seat of an airliner. Apart from that it's quite simple isn't it, the OP has three options.

1. Call Flybe asking what he/she is getting for that type of bond and WHY is it that high for already type rated pilots.
2. Don't join.
3. Join and hope he/she doesn't have to leave within the bond period.

And yes I agree with you, reversethrust and everyone else, it is a disgrace to bond for that amount for already type rated pilots but there maybe a legitimate reason why, even if we're struggling to think of one.

The bond appears to be nothing more than a cynical attempt to tie a financial millstone to new recruits, to keep them in the company. Seems strange to apply such a steep bond to direct entry captains (especially type rated ones) since I can't imagine they are in plentiful supply... It will take successful applicants to refuse the offer, otherwise it won't change.