Though I should give all a bit of a laugh...what if someone is on the "middle" side of his...ehm...FORTIES*? :\

Needless to say one needs the nod for the AC and a job offer first, of course.


DK :{

* Still no attachments, kinda giving up on having a (human) life or living at "home"...

I agree, even something as simple as the 7k becoming a training bond over 3 years instead of an actual monetary deduction would make a significant difference, you know...like the old days :-)


I wish you well, I smell the pilot shortage coming and the end of driving pilots terms lower but instead the other way around....about time.

If I were a turbo prop FO today looking for a career advancement on to big jets, then I would certainly apply to Thomson and go and see what they have to say. I think you have to look at it in the medium term, not the sort term and look at the deal with a broad brush. You can always say no to an offer if you feel you are being short changed. Moreover, if after 3 years say with 1000 hrs + on the Boeing you can always leave. The 738 is very useful time to have.
The 787 is only based at Manchester and Gatwick and that does nt look like it's going to change.

That's all folks!'

but if someone applied thinking they couldn't take the current offer and then it improved due to lack of interest then they are precluded from re-applying in 12 months.

Getting on a jet is good, but not if it means you cant pay your bills and push yourself into financial hardship.

As the chaps/chapesses have said, it would seem the industry is slowly waking up and having to change its' ways - a refreshing change, just that Thomson is a bit behind in the process.

At the current rate of desperation and airlines trying to get pilots it wont be long before the old days of a golden handshake cash payment to join a company re-emerge - maybe 5-10 years ? (I certainly hope so).

After all how are the directors of TUI to make their millions in bonuses if there is no one to fly their customers on holiday !

I full welcome the changes in the right direction for a change.

A training bond would massively help - suddenly this would become a massively attractive offer.

I'm still going to apply - things change, and I can't see myself doing split duties, minimum rest, lates to earlies in the course of 1 week and 4 sectors on a 5/2 pattern, all year round forever.

Thanks for your help and pointers guys, I'll leave this thread alone now in favour of another 4 sector late!

They certainly won't get experienced rated guys with these terms. Every airline I know at the moment is struggling to get suitable guys in the seat. I wonder how long it will take for the penny to drop. The airlines have to seriously up their games. The ball is now firmly in the court of the pilot

Heathrow..

I would take any numbers off to BA with a big pinch of salt. Maybe 9 are working their notice, but how many are in the hold pool waiting for a start date to give their notice? How many still working through the selection? I know that's the case at my outfit (not Thomson.)

I would be interested in this if BA doesn't work out for me, except for the awful contracts on offer which means it makes better financial sense to stay where I am.

SO or FO
 

Am I right thinking that if I have over 1500hrs on a Q400 but no jet time I would be recruited as a SO?

Hawker-Hunter

Thats correct according to the MOA. Until you have 1500hrs total with 500 on a jet of a similar size you will be a second officer and therefore on second officer pay. Also assuming you are not type rated you would have your salary reduced by £7,000 a year for 3 years to pay for the rating, so £21,000 for a 737 rating. As far as i can work out the salary would be around £30,500 when you deduct the £7,000 and consider the PPY50 contract. Someone please correct me if i have got this wrong though!

What about after year 7? Year 10? Year 20? My guess you're total career earnings would be a lot more at TOM.
Plus you could be earning c£10k a year in allowances (FDA and duty rig). With day off payments on top of that. (Flexis)
Sometimes you've got to take one step back to take two steps forwards.

Thanks for all the info folks.
I hit all the criteria regards 757, I even find the 2 weeks off over winter appealing, but it's a long .......migration to the left and having been there on previous type I miss it, especially the money.
As for the £7000 training thing, that's just taking the p***.

Good luck.

NTR - GLA Base
 

Folks, a quick question for anyone in the know: how likely or not is it that a NTR applicant could expect a GLA base? Is it a popular choice?

Given the numbers involved it is the only circumstance that I could make things work coming in as a NTR SO (even short term commuting is financially unviable).

NB: I know you've got to be in it etc so I expect I'll apply regardless and see where it goes, but I'm not in a position on those figures to even pretend to be interested in any other base, much as I'd like to hang up my props.

Thanks.

As far as i'm aware GLA is a 757 only base (2 aircraft) so you would have to be put onto the 757 to be in with a shot. As far as your chances of getting GLA after that, to be honest, i really don't know the answer to that. I do know that the guys on the 757 mostly seem to be determined to stay on the aircraft until they are moved off it due to fleet replacement etc (737 max from 2018). For the GLA guys this would mean a base move if they wish to change types which might not suit if Glasgow or nearby is home. One could argue that EDI is there as an option but then there is only 1 737 based there, again i have no idea what the chances are but it seems the larger bases have the greater movement due to the fleet sizes within those bases.

Same position as max_drift, moving base is financially not an option after the pay cut to SO. :ugh:

Does anyone have any more info on basing? Such as where are new joiners most likely to go?

Also what % of duties are overnight shifts?

If I add about £8k for FDP etc (not inc overtime) onto the £30k for SO can anyone verify if that would be in the right ball park?

Why is Thomson charging type-rated pilots 7K for mandatory training as required by their AOC ?

EASA Part D, AOC Training Syllabi, Part 1, Description and Scope, states:

"It is common place for pilots to move within the industry with a type-rating, and maybe related operational experience. Operators must ensure that the Operators Conversion Course prepares such individuals for operations within their AOC"

Most of the latest questions have been answered in this history of this thread so take a little time to read it.

the question about an extra £8k in allowances over summer, maybe maximum BEFORE tax.

Bases - those existing pilots with a preference to be at another base get first choice, called standing bid, once those are satisfied any holes left is where new pilots go (well, that's what the agreements say, depends if management are ignoring them or not that week).

Why are Thomson charging for an OCC, great question, simple answer is to save money and they think they will still get the required numbers (we shall see).

That 7K and forced PPY50 for 5 years scheme started 3-4 years ago.

The first lot of recruited PPY50 guys were made permanent full time within 6 months (2013 joiners). The reason for that was because very few permenant pilots wanted to go to Canada and the company gets paid well to send pilots to Canada, so they wanted to extend the offer to PPY50 pilots, the union said if you want them working full time in Canada you make them all full time (all pilots senior to the most junior pilot going), so that is what happened, the first lot of PPY50 pilots became permanent pilots - it is after all what the agreements say. So they told all told their mates how great it was and that is the word on the street.

year 2-3 - their mates all apply for PPY50 and £7k deduction on the expectation of the same happening again, it didn't for some reason the union didn't insist that any pilot senior to the most junior going to Canada be made full time as per the agreement - don't ask me why not, I don't understand why not. As a result these guys have not been made permanent - BA opens recruitment guess who is leaving Thomson.... (

Year 3-4 - Present Day - it is known that the company will do all it can not to make PPY50 guys permanent and its clear that if you go to Canada you don't get made permanent now (??) well you do for that winter so the company can make its handsome money of PPY50 guys being out there, and new PPY pilots get 18.7% extra pay for doing 25% more work (think about that for a minute !!) [their contract is 81.3% pay for 75% work, they upgrade to 100% pay for 100% work] They also get the detachment extras.

Because of the above sequence of events coupled with reduced pension to new joiners now too, the number of rated applicants dropped significantly, I imagine they expect even less applicants this year hence they are forced to open up to NTR, who knows what's next if that is unsuccessful - maybe Thomson will be forced to consider its offering to new pilots to pay them what they're actually worth rather than robbing them.

The time to command is significant if doing the long term maths, you have an FO sat on the FO max paypoint £69k for 10 years, no further increments and then at eventual command they move to paypoint 1 of the captains pay scale (it is now time in rank that determines captains pay, not time in company as per the old pay scales). That is why a lot of the existing FO's in the company on the old payscales are reluctant to move, they will move across to captains pay scale based on time in company (old pay scales), so that 15 years to command figure, I cant see dropping any time soon.

if I had my time again now what would I do, well to be honest I would want to get on a jet, but not in a company that offers below competitive terms and certainly not one with 15 years sat on mediocre pay as an FO with a bunch of deductions.

I would be more inclined to join a company that has mediocre pay and a much shorter time to command (as it goes I don't think any current long serving FO's thought it would be that long but the merger of FCA and BY made it so) - who knows what one aviation is about to do (see previous posts for what that is), once you have that time in the left seat the world is your oyster and with the number of companies increasing their DEC options I think it is only a matter of a few years till the value you can print on those tickets increases significantly coupled with the retirement bulge across the industry.

All personal opinion of course, others will likely disagree.

Good luck

Hi all,
For info, I joined in 2014.
First year was PPY50 with 7k deduction, highest take home pay was £4170 in summer, lowest was £3053 in winter (that lowest month had one flexi, so real lowest could be more toward £2700ish)
Financial year average about £3600 a month.
Again, that's take home pay, in my bank account.
That's FO on the 737, PPY50, with the 7k removed before tax, and was topped up by a few flexis through the year.
Be warned, don't count on flexi, I never do, as it's Sod's law when you need the money, there's none going! With so many being planned to recruit, in my opinion flexi for FO's/SO's will be very limited next year.

I did, and still do put away a couple of hundred all summer to make sure I'm comfortable for winter going into hibernation!!

Hope some real life figures help.

Cheers.

Thanks to all of you providing info so far, really useful :D

Does anyone know how difficult it would be to get a BRS base eventually?

Is it a big enough base to see regular movement or a dead mans shoes affair?

Although it may not help, but CWL has always been unpopular and so always has vacancies. As for BRS, well who knows. It really is down to the bid and each years flying program. Why not apply, if you get selected, you'll be given an offer. Make the call then. Sod's law will apply if you don't apply.

Best of luck to all.

Would somebody on PPY50 mind saying how much a year you could expect to earn with regards to variable pay? I know youthinkso said 8k over the summer period, max. I was looking for an indication on the annual variable pay covering the winter as well. I wouldn't be willing to leave my family and head to Canada for 5 months. I appreciate this will change from base to base and fleets etc, just a good idea on annual variable pay with out overtime would be a great help. initial sums don't make this look like a great move. It would take approx 7 years to start earning the same salary and I would be about £100k down.:sad:

In the winter it really does go the other way. Expect to fly as little as 1 flight a month worst case so your income i'd say is 90%+ made up from your PPY50 salary with VERY little added on for flight pay etc and i don't think i did a single flexi last winter as there simply were none going.

Thomson recruitment.
 

What does the Canada detachment involve in terms of pay, getting out there, accommodation, etc?

Based on the C-reg operation the company pay for your travel out plus an allowance for friends and family to visit (around £4k worth of flight tickets I total). You get your own 2 bed apartment and a car for the duration of the detachment. I calculated approx £13k additional net if I go compared to if I stay at home for the winter. That's based on around £3k back pay for the summer worked on PPY uplifted to 100% salary, £2k per month in tax free allowance and a bonus of around £2k net when you get home. I am in year 2 of PPY and IF I goto Canada based on my earnings so far this year (with a bit of flexible thrown in) I have calculated I'll make approx £80k gross.

Obviously depends how many of us get to go and it's all based on union and company politics, oh and seniority of course. As others have said the basic in year one with the ridiculous reduction for type rating is hard. However it's a nice place to work, nice aircraft, friendly FD and CC and very professional on the whole. Worse places to be and I've worked for a few airlines in the past.

Hope that helps

During a busy summer month. What's the roster like?

Days on, off? 90hrs? Earlies, lates?

Are all the flights turn arounds?

Some really useful info from previous posters to date.

Much appreciated.

From current experience 10 days off per month. You wont do less than 90 hours a month (this year people have been going over 100 hours in the last 28 days, I didn't know this but apparently this is legal if it happens during the return sector) A mix of very early flights, lates and deep nights (some landing as late as 8 or 9am). All flights are turn arounds on the 737 apart from sharm where its either a level 2 turn-around or a 1 or 2 night stop with yourself and your colleague (cabin crew fly back), 757 the same apart from they also do the same with cape verde islands and the 787 is mainly long haul but again that would take years for new joiners to get onto IMO.

Thanks to the guys who replied to my earlier questions. All this information you are supplying is extremely useful because especially the guys with families / mortgages and flight training loans would not be able to make an informed decision about what to do without all of this detail - that's not supplied in the job advert.

One last question :O - how popular is BHX as a base?

No promises obviously, but I doubt it would be too difficult to get in.

How can you as a Pilot for Thomson Airways evoke the holiday spirit with our passengers

Annouce a free bar shortly after take off and then at the top of climb proceed into the cabin and to start the onboard entertainment and lead the Conga

Does anyone have a better answer?;)

Play the chicken song over the PA during boarding.

For better or worse, in the new world of recruitment, this and similar questions are highly important. Flippant answers or "not applicable" will be the end of the line for that application. (Very recently from a Thomson pilot manager).

Glad I'm not applying now, I'd have no chance but them's the rules.

Good luck everyone!
Beakor

Oh yes I can well remember at a Trainer's meeting being informed by a pilot 'manager' ( long gone to screw up another airline, fortunately) that " we are not normal pilots, we are holiday pilots... " ffs, what does that mean...? Give me strength. Oh, and btw if you are interested in command be prepared to go to a shop ( full uniform, naturally) and sell holidays; to show incredulity at what is on the face of it a ludicrous concept for the pilot group is to be ostracised from command selection. Pass the vaseline. We live in strange times... For all you Daily Mail readers and in the words of Richard Littlejohn, " you couldn't make it up".

Welcome to Thomson IT!

Just logged in to complete, as I have been the same with work over the weekend and when I click 'continue application' I then get a message stating that the job is no longer available.

Not very friendly considering there was no warning of a closing date on their
website or in any part of the application form.

The closing date was yesterday, it was clearly defined on the website, perhaps that is why people couldn't submit yesterday evening?

it certainly was not 'clearly defined' - hence myself and another poster being completely unaware of it.

In post #222 it's stated that the closing date was 23rd August at midnight.

Closing Date
 

All part of the initiative test boys and girls - RTFQ.

Seriously though, I'm not sure whether you should be sad that you missed out, or relieved that you won't be subject to new joiner T&Cs that many of us in the airline view as utterly shameful.

Roster
 

Hi all,
Can anybody post a typical 737 and 757/767 roster.
Thanks for all the shared informations.

Teobull,

There is no such thing as a typical roster really, Carmen rosters duties to get you as close as it can to the maximum to cover all duties because we don't have enough pilots in either rank, this means that your Carmen bids (trying to get days off) generally get ignored in the summer because its priority is to crew all flights. Your only guarantee is to have 10 days off per month.

One roster could see you with 7 days on, one off, 5 on,two off etc etc with a combination of early starts, night duties, afternoon duties etc, or it could be all mornings, all nights, all afternoons, put in a bid for preferences (early, lates, nights etc) generally gets ignored for reason as stated above.

Asking anyone who has come to the airline on a previous pattern of 5 on 4 off will tell you the flying is much more fatiguing due to the rostering and doing deep nights and because we don't get days off in blocks your off time is of little value apart from trying to recover (in the summer). As nice as it would be to have days off in blocks our rostering department have decided to penalise the system for doing this so you get occasional single days off and sometimes a pair together, rarely more, unless using leave or guaranteed days off that have to be booked a year to six months in advance.

If you plan on not being able to make any plans in the summer you won't be disappointed, short term time off is a problem for line pilots, and don't underestimate the impact this will have on your lifestyle, family and friends.

lifestyle and rostering is and has been voted as the number one gripe by Thomson pilots for the last few years, yet nothing changes, there was supposed to be something introduced this year as part of last years pay deal that would improve it but seems it was another empty promise.

Can't wait for new EASA FTL's to make all the above worse !:ugh: