yup, do the industry a favour and don't do it - sub ryanair conditions around the corner...

Leave is 42 days pro rated, you can bid initially for 2 weeks in summer and then top up later. The rules are really complicated! Leave has wrap around days and extra gold days can be added as well so a 7 day block can end up being more like 10 or 11. Seniority has very little effect on leave, mostly it's how many point you have accrued. August and Xmas leave is mega points, November negligible.

Carmen, blocks of days of are not penalised, single days off are. 99% of my days off over the last year or two have been in blocks of at least two, more like 3.

Carmen works for some people less so for others, I find the most successful people are those who just prefer earlies or lates. Or maybe SSH night stops, trying to get a specific day off through Carmen is difficult:

Block window still applies on all duties, 2 hours either side.

Staff travel is pretty good, you are sorta correct but it depends on what you want to book, sensatory hotels for example is your concession (increases with length of service) applied to 70% of the cost so you may only need to pay the 30% in cash. If your concession isn't quite enough then you can top it up with monthly pre tax deductions from your salary. If however you want to travel around Australia and fly Emirates then the discount is way less, I reckon you would need to pay the 75% and use your concessions on 25%, Im guessing a little here as I've never used it on a scheduled carrier.

Staff travel is actually really good but it's a bit like our leave system, it's really complicated and there a literally thousands of options and freebies most of which no one knows about. For example, I was off to France recently and just happened to bring it up with someone in the know and an hour later, after a quick phone call I had a return P&O ticket two and a car for 18 quid, Another 18 quid and we used the business lounge each way! The girls in staff travel are trained travel agents now and are keen to help compared to a few years ago. Mainly because they have more time on their hands as so much is done online.

Pensions... well I don't know what's happening there, it's actually been stipulated form board/European level as we currently have the highest pension contribution in the group, not sure what's going to happen but the union are fighting hard to keep it at 15%. I think minimum contribution is 3% but most do more

regards

I also have an invite for an assessment - NTR.
I wondered if anyone could shed any more light on the process itself?
In particular any info on what to expect from the technical test and the interview would be very much appreciated.

32 days per annum for new PPY50 joiners, 7 days allocated in first summer, new pilots allocated scores as if they have achieved peak in last 3 seasons.

Company have said pilots won't be able to surrender summer leave for next year, e.g. Don't take 2 weeks in summer and get 4 in winter instead due to winter work requirements....so why hire ppy50 and not full time Fo/so ?

carmen blocks of days off are indeed penalised, a rule set is set to prevent this as it does for single days off, confirmed by Carmen Manager at hug a pilot conference day 2 years ago.
Carmen will only ever work if we have the right number of pilots, this has not been the case for many years, satisfaction seems to be better in the winter when flying programme is quieter which confirms the above or based at a larger base.
Crewing been so desperate this year they have agreed with union that Flexi gets paid if you operate outside this too (if you want), see point above about pilot shortage.
Agreed, however unfortunately the value of concessions has not increased in 15+ years vs annual holiday prices increasing 5-10% per annum thus rendering them less valuable each year that passes.
It is a management type of argument, why should pilots get a bigger pension (15% for 3.5%) than management who get less..... Find me a manager that invested £130k in their careers, hopefully the union are still pushing this below the surface otherwise there will likely be a mass kick off as all expect the next step will be to apply this to current pilots, same strategy used when they closed final scheme to new joiners initially....

There is suggestion that the company plan to offer current PPY50 pilots work this year in the winter without the requirement to go overseas on detachment (good news) , this should trigger the, you will then be made permanent full time clause for all said pilots, guess what.... They have said they 'might' offer full time in May to some (different to what agreement/contract says - Bad news) so believe the being made full time after 5 years at your own peril.

it is the same agreements that says you will be made permanent if there is winter work, understandably many ppy50 pilots are annoyed and some now event talking about moving on having been here a while as they don't expect the company to abide to the 5 year term.

There is some misconception that PPY50 pilots should be grateful for the winter work for one season rather than their terms being upheld ?! No one has reached the 5 year promotion point yet, so it remains to be seen if they deliver on that part of the agreement... Be sure to recognise the uncertainty of this when making any decisions and it doesn't look like the union is insisting their trigger to full time clause be enforced for a reason only known to the union and company.

As a final thought, remember the company is very vulnerable to security issues e.g. Tunisia if for example there was an attack in Egypt this would have significant impact on winter work, all it would take is for FCO advice to change on sharm el sheikh where it is all getting a bit exciting in the Sinai Peninsula with ISIS, I fear it will only be a matter of time.:mad:

Good luck with decisions.

Wow, talk about taking an informative post and putting a negative spin on it all!

I'm confused about the Carmen issue, why would Carmen be programmed to penalise blocks of days off? We all have to have a minimum number so what would be the point of penalising blocks when it also penalises singles? Therefore there's a rule set to prevent any day offered though we have to have them? That makes no sense.

And Carmen works for me just fine, as I said I think most people expect too much from it.

Just factual information, same as your post, many established pilots are not fully aware of the PPY50 pilots concerns, which the new joiners will be subject to.

Productivity - roster someone four days off then 7 on and same again over 28 days you need more days off in the month to achieve long consecutive working patterns,throw the odd one or two between long blocks of work and you need less days off over the month, of course it means you can't ask someone to do overtime without impacting remaining roster.

As above, Only reason singles are penalised are because they are part of rostering agreement, otherwise I'm sure they would all be singles apart from legal requirements,penalising blocks of days off is a rostering efficiency rule rather than industrial agreement compliance rule as single days off.

Ps holiday concessions also pro-rated due to ppy50 status

Well I still dont get it, I can only go of what my roster says and right now I am in the middle of a block of 4 BDOs, and I cant remember having had a single days off this year.

You say you are highlighting facts to help potential recruits but I cant help but feel a negative spin is being put on it, maybe you are PPY and peeved off? I dont know, but to state some facts of my own and to correct the rostering scare story. Since the start of the season, only .4% of days off are single BDOs on the 737, and on both the 756/787 fleets single BDOs account for .3% of days off.

Therefore, 99.6 - 99.7% of days off are in BLOCKS of at least two or more.

Hi yes roster statistics show % of single BDO, on the system! I think we think of a "block" differently! I don't think 2 days off is a block of days off, to me 3-4 days off is a block, but that is subjective. I rarely achieve more than 2 consecutive days off, but stats not available for that.

Re negative spin, again just fact, don't think either of us have typed anything not factually correct. If people have all the facts they can make a well informed decision :ok: PPY50 issues are very real and relevant to recruitment consideration.

Hey listen I totally oppose the PPY situation and I think some small changes (the 7k bond and a reduction from 5 years to 3) would make quite a difference to the offering. But we can not change the fact that no body is forcing people to join on this deal. I actually hope more than anything that the company can't fill the slots as that would have to improve things, But I do worry that they will be over subscribed as usual.

I agree, the elephant in the room though is the fact that PPY50 pilots have had winter work for 2 consecutive years now yet the company does not employ them full time as per the contract and worthy of serious consideration, it demonstrates a lot of uncertainty for new joiners and draws in to question if they will be given full time at 5 year point. It affects a lot, leave, pay, sick pay, phi, pension, concessions, loss of licence amounts....... This is in effect the same as a +£7k bond for 5 years plus the initial £7k for 1-3 years.

If not careful the next argument offered will be that they don't have to make up ppy50 pilots like the agreements say because custom and practice demonstrates they have not done it for the last 2 years.... Hopefully the union have a grasp on it :confused:

Any info no matter when you joined ???
 

Hi all,
Does anyone have any information no matter how old about the tech questions that can be anticipated at assessment ???
Is it in depth ATPL Stuff ( I did them years ago) or type specific to the applican as the Airline who cannot be named on here operating in the ME uses ?
Any info no matter how insignificant will go a long way ....currently rereading BRISTOW....any other ideas ...anyone ???
Thanks :ok:

Tech element is new this year, so not much info regarding what's involved.

Been called, NTR. No mention of a sim ride? Any ideas as to how many people will be at each assessment day?

Hi everyone. I have been invited, non-type rated. I picked a day in the first cluster of assessment days. Should everyone expect to wait for a yes/no call for a few weeks until all assessment days have run? Also does anyone know what kind of time-frame re type rating course start dates are Thomson looking at?

O and whats for lunch on the day of assessment?:}

Whatever sandwich you make😆😂

Uthinkso

How about "we" rather than Crewing e.g. The Airline

Um wonder how many BY Pilots have invested 130k in their careers any idea on a % of crew?, most I know came up the ladder might have been bonded here and there. The old argument for the higher pension was early retirement that no longer applies.

Maybe the Manager could argue he deserves a similar pension "Find me a Pilot that works anywhere near as hard as I do"

. I wonder what % of crew who have joined on new pilot terms in the last 3 years are loaded with said debt from investing in their career....


The new joiner payscales created 3 years ago (when retirement age was 65) were based on 15% pension contribution and total remuneration over average career length, If the pension is being cut to 10% and then 7% ish for new joiners then new joiner pay scales need to be uplifted by the same amount to keep the career remuneration the same, you can't really expect no backslash in the company trying to reduce career earnings for new pilots, it's in effect a declaration of war on the pilots !

As they have received many more applications than places available on the selection days the first obstacle is the application form. Any mistakes and the applicant is passed over regardless of experience.

Anyone who didn't answer any of the questions on the application form or put N/A was stripped out. :rolleyes:

As somebody with no 737-300/500 time, what was one supposed to put as an answer to this question then?

PFO, 1000 hours on the NG.

NTR 2700TT. 800hrs jet. Im attending an assessment day next month. Any info on the assessment day would be greatly appreciated. PM if you prefer. Has anyone been to their assessment day yet? I'm particularly interested in the details of the technical test.

Hi I'm NTR. 2700 hrs TT. 800 hrs Jet.
I have an assessment day next month. The format on the day is a Group exercise, case study and technical test in the morning. If successful then interview PM. If anybody is reading this who went to this type of selection during the last round of recruitment with Thomson then I'd really appreciate some feedback on what to expect to aid my preparation (no doubt others would too). Has anybody been to their current assessments already or do you have one soon? For anybody who does go would you be kind enough to post feedback to help fellow pilots? (that would be very useful). I don't believe we are competing against each other. We are pushing ourselves to reach a standard. I believe an airline worth working for will maintain their integrity on standards.


I'm particularly interested in what the technical test entails. ATPL theory or aptitude/maths verbal reasoning or a combination of both? Maybe type specific questions on your current type?


Any feedback from current assessments coming up will be very handy for all of us with assessments. I will post feedback after mine on this forum or PM if you'd prefer. I'm hoping someone before my assessment early October will have the same mindset as me to help others. PM me if you prefer. For those who didn't get an assessment and not sure why. There were some questions which required some thinking about to give a reasonable answer. Don't take this the wrong way but maybe they're looking for more from a pilot than just flying hours.
Good luck in all your careers everybody!


regards

Very strange. PFO received few weeks ago, been invited via email today to attend?!

We have had an acceptance from our MD and various notices accepting that our numbers were way short this year and they are to address this in future. Hopefully this is in response and they are going to up the requirement. Either way, good for you.

Is it still the ballpark figure of 60 they are looking to hire? Roughly how many have been called to the assessment days?

The plan was always 60, I have no idea if that has changed, I'm just highlighting that more recently our company have admitted being short this Summer. Whether that means more is only a guess.

Having spoken to some of the crews in the last few months they all seemed to think the company was desperately short. How are they fixed for winter or will all new hires be ready for next summer only?

The TCX training manager and his recruitment team don't let HR get involved in the selection process. The whole process comes across as genuine and practical as a result.

A majority of the recruitment team are pilots and I would say outweigh those from HR.

Has anybody actually heard from "the horses mouth" what the contract is? Ie 85%? Paying for a TR?

On another note, I think the interviews start on Monday, any feedback on what they are offering and the process would be appreciated.

Good luck.

Which month starts the summer flying season and which month ends it?

And while working 2 weeks on 2 weeks off during the winter, how many flights can you expect during the 2 weeks on?

typically when does the new joiners groundshool start? is it over the slower winter months?

Summer season 1st May - 31st Oct

Ground school courses historically have run from Feb - May. Who knows if this is the same this year, perhaps its on the recruitment site.

A few assessment days taken place now...

Any kind of heads up on what to expect would be much appreciated ;)

Hi guys, I had the assessment today. There was 30 of us there. It was really relaxed. We arrived in and they gave us a presentation of the airline etc. They had Captains and First Officers all in uniform, running the show. It was actually really impressive. The first thing we did was the group exercise, we were split into groups of roughly 6. In the room we were given 5 minutes to read through a list of 13 issues to ourselves first. We had to prioritise which items were most important. Then you were given 15 mins in the group to discuss what was the most important. Once we'd all agreed on the list then we finished up and that was that. The second thing I did was the technical test. We'd 30 mins to answer 30 questions. The questions themselves weren't really difficult. They are all ATPL based. The last stage then was a case study. This one was interesting and it's what caught a few people out. You're brought to a room on your own. You're given a scenario that your are in an outstation, the Captain is outside dealing with a tech issues and you have to sort everything in the flight deck. The first part is about FDLs and how long the cabin crew and you have until
You run out of hours etc, the next part is about fuel planning. You're given 25 mins and then you have to present your plan to the Captain. Unfortunately this was it for me. They pulled us out individually and told us the news and gave feedback. Really nice people and seem like a great airline to work for.

Why would you post this on a public forum?
Chances are that the process will be changed now and what people going in to expect wont be what happens now.
I imagine that you were asked at the assessment not to post what happened on pprune or social media and if you weren't....do you really need someone to tell you??

I guess he doesn't care since he didn't get through. A kick in the teeth for those of us who went in blind and were hoping for a level playing field for the assessment. All else being equal, it will be those following behind getting this extra info who have a better chance of a job offer. I hope you're right Aerofoil about it being changed but I doubt it, for this week of assessments at least.

Gosh,

Its lucky I don't run recruitment, I would use my powers of deduction to figure out who N9231C is and actually offer them a job as they clearly demonstrate that just becaue they didn't succeed they have passed on as much information as possible to help others who are about to go through the process ! A bit like sharing the tips of going into some dodgy airfield wi gotchas that people only know from first hand experience.

Isn't that what being part of a team is really about, for me it says the opposite to those who are annoyed that people have shared the information if it reduces their chances. What information has N9231C actually shared that would influence what people do to prepare for the assesment, personally I would say zero.

Any other airline recruitment process is well documented on prune by those wishing to help all other candidates and give them the very best chance, it is exactly what the BALPA careers service used to do when it existed too.

Its a real shame if people aren't sharing the process if its in the hope of bettering their own chances. Even if the company said not to share the information, create a new ID and post to help your fellow pilots - I find it nuts that someone lambasts N9231C for trying to help others :D it isn't the apprentice and lord sugar will only take one !

Aerofoil, Penworth.

There are a group of scenarios that they can pick from so no two days are the same. Also there is nothing about trying to trick anyone in the scenario section. It's about making a choice and sticking by it and your reasoning behind it.

Why not post about their individual experience on here? Also it's nothing that hasn't really been mentioned before in the thread.

N9231C, sorry to hear bud good luck for the future?

Carmen
 

Forgive me for my ignorance of the company jargon, but when people say Carmen "penalises" you for taking certain days off, in essence what penalty are you accruing?